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Quieter grinder

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  • 24-07-2009 10:22pm
    #1
    Clinker
    Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭


    I currently use two Iberital MC2s: one for espresso and one for my plunger pot (a.k.a. French press). They're great, but very noisy: in fact I'm inclined to use industrial earmuffs when using them (but I use the muffs when hoovering too, so maybe I'm just like that!).

    Anyway, can anyone recommend a good grinder which isn't (anything like) as noisy? And what would it cost?


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    #2
    Mr Magnolia
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,432 Mod ✭✭✭✭Mr Magnolia


    The Macap M4 (doser) and MC4 (doserless) are both a lot quieter than the MC2, they're more expensive though. I picked mine up from espressocoffeeshop.com I went for the stainless, stepless version which pushed the price up to €350 though you should get them cheaper if you're prepared to compromise. This would be what I'd advise for the espresso.

    This is my initial thoughts on the grinder when I got it set up. I'm very happy with it now, it does retain some grinds but they all do. The 2 things to remember are the rest for the portafilter and the auto grind switch. Some beans clump, some don't at all.

    For the filter, go for the bodum antigua if Java Rep. are still doing them on special at €80/90. Noiser than the MC4 but still a good deal quieter than the MC2 iirc. It also has a timer so you can press the button and walk away from the noise. I only put the volume of beans into the hopper that I need so I push the button and walk over to the kettle.


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    #3
    Clinker
    Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭Clinker


    Anyone?

    I've seen the Mahlkönig K30 ES recommended as a very quiet grinder, but it costs £1000 on hasbean, which is a bit more than I had in mind!


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    #4
    Mr Magnolia
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,432 Mod ✭✭✭✭Mr Magnolia


    I somehow deleted my earlier post, it's back up now anyway Clinker :)


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    #5
    llatsni
    Registered Users Posts: 525 ✭✭✭llatsni


    I'll buy an MC2 off you if it helps you on your way to reduced-decibel-grinding :)


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    #6
    Clinker
    Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭Clinker


    llatsni wrote: »
    I'll buy an MC2 off you if it helps you on your way to reduced-decibel-grinding :)

    Thanks llatsni: if I make a move I will certainly be interested in your offer. But no grinder (however loud) leaves until another has taken its place! ;)


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    #7
    Slaphead07
    Registered Users Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Slaphead07


    could you not just turn the hifi up? Hah? HAH? :cool:


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    #8
    Clinker
    Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭Clinker


    Slaphead07 wrote: »
    could you not just turn the hifi up? Hah? HAH? :cool:

    [earmuffs]What's that you said?[/earmuffs]


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    #9
    Clinker
    Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭Clinker


    Here's where I am.

    ch2008 has recommended the Mahlkönig Vario (€316). The Mahlkönig range seem to have a reputation for being good on the quietness front. He suggested that Anfim and Mazzer grinders would also be worth considering.

    Mr Magnolia has suggested the Macap MC4 which is described on www.casabarista.nl as geluidsarm which linguistic guesswork tells me is probably Dutch for "low noise". It's €329 or so, depending on choices.

    I think I'll probably start by replacing the espresso grinder. RE*AC*TOR was not impressed by the Vario as a filter grinder, but he thought it was pretty good for espresso, despite large shards being visible in pucks. The Macap MC4 seems like a good bet too. Which should I get? Anyone have experience of both, to campare the loudness? Any other suggestions?


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    #10
    donnacha
    Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭donnacha


    Clinker - If you do sell up one of those iberital's then do let us know. As luck would have it my awful krups burr that I gave to the inlaws gave up this morning. I've been using the rocky myself and know the inlaws wouldn't dream of forking out €300 on a grinder - a second hand model is the only solution to me enjoying the good stuff when in their house.


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    #11
    llatsni
    Registered Users Posts: 525 ✭✭✭llatsni


    hey donnacha, oi! i got there first ;)

    @Clinker: I have read the macap m4 is quiet alright, but as always it's just a subjective opinion, and not an objective assessment relative to any other grinder.

    I've used the Vario and its a good grinder... but perhaps lives a little in the overpriced-gimmicky-style-item sector for my liking, can't recall it being especially quiet... but then I've never heard the Iberital.

    If anyone's interested we could do an controlled sound-pressure-level test of a bunch of grinders, I have the sound gear, you supply the grinders????


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    #12
    donnacha
    Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭donnacha


    No bother llatsni - post my post I checked that java republic deal - €70.73 for Bodum Antigua including 2 bags of beans. Order placed a few minutes ago :D


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    #13
    llatsni
    Registered Users Posts: 525 ✭✭✭llatsni


    donnacha wrote: »
    €70.73 for Bodum Antigua including 2 bags of beans.

    sweet deal... will take a look myself!


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    #14
    Mr Magnolia
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,432 Mod ✭✭✭✭Mr Magnolia


    llatsni wrote: »
    @Clinker: I have read the macap m4 is quiet alright, but as always it's just a subjective opinion, and not an objective assessment relative to any other grinder.

    I've used them both and I can tell you the macap is a lot quieter than the MC2 :)


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    #15
    RE*AC*TOR
    Registered Users Posts: 7,482 ✭✭✭RE*AC*TOR


    I think the Vario was quieter than my Macap.

    No, it's not great for filter, but then again most espresso grinders aren't. It's just in this case certain people were claiming it was something it wasn't.

    It's probably no worse than any other flat burr home grinder for filter.


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    #16
    Clinker
    Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭Clinker


    RE*AC*TOR wrote: »
    I think the Vario was quieter than my Macap.

    No, it's not great for filter, but then again most espresso grinders aren't. It's just in this case certain people were claiming it was something it wasn't.

    It's probably no worse than any other flat burr home grinder for filter.

    Interesting! I'm coming around to the idea of getting the Vario as my espesso grinder: it seems to be the quietest.

    What about my French press grinder?

    • Should I use the Vario for that as well?
    • Would the Bodum Antigua be better? (And is it quiet?)
    • Or is there some other quiet grinder that would be best for this use?
    Thanks for all the help: I'm hoping to make purchase decisions soon!


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    #17
    RE*AC*TOR
    Registered Users Posts: 7,482 ✭✭✭RE*AC*TOR


    My gut would say for FP the Antigua produces a more uniform grind.

    I wouldn't bet my house on it though. Haven't done a side by side comparison, and the Antigua becomes limited if you want to do finer filter grinds.

    I myself am buying a Mahlkonig Tanzania for my French Press / filter needs, but I'm guessing that's not quite what you had in mind.


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    #18
    Clinker
    Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭Clinker


    RE*AC*TOR wrote: »
    My gut would say for FP the Antigua produces a more uniform grind.

    I wouldn't bet my house on it though. Haven't done a side by side comparison, and the Antigua becomes limited if you want to do finer filter grinds.

    I myself am buying a Mahlkonig Tanzania for my French Press / filter needs, but I'm guessing that's not quite what you had in mind.

    253?img%5Bw%5D=500&img%5Bh%5D=500
    Nice! There was a part of me that thought I should go all-out and get a Mahlkönig Guatemala for FP

    242?img%5Bw%5D=300&img%5Bh%5D=500

    but they seem to come in at >€2000! That would be injecting my hi-fi spending habits into my newly-acquired coffee mania! I'm assuming the Tanzania has a nice clean grind profile: what does it cost?

    Based on what you say, my gut feeling would be to get the Vario and see how it goes for FP: it doesn't sound as though the Antigua would be dramatically better. It is cheap, though.

    Speaking of cheapness, and going OT: I was in Brown Thomas today, and the Gaggia Classic is still only €300! Last few days of the sale: ends this weekend!


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    #19
    hshortt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭hshortt


    Hey Clinker, what's the best price you've found for the Vario? I'm thinking to upgrade my grinder too.

    Cheers


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    #20
    Clinker
    Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭Clinker


    hshortt wrote: »
    Hey Clinker, what's the best price you've found for the Vario? I'm thinking to upgrade my grinder too.

    Cheers

    Coffee hit list it at £316, but it's out of stock. When I rang marco, they quoted €341 + VAT = €414.32 ~ £355. I'd be glad to hear of a better price!


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    #21
    davej
    Registered Users Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭davej


    I too am interested a grinder of the same calibre you are looking at Clinker..
    I think I'm settling on a Macap M4 but the Mahkonig Vario looks good too. I'm open to alternative suggestions of course !

    My general impression is that the M4 is first and foremost an espresso grinder, but i'm presuming it can handle coarser grinds competently ?
    It really would be great to have a machine that can easily switch between course and fine grinding without needing to dial in again...the Vario seems to promise this but there are certainly question marks over this claim. It's also my understanding that a newer version of the Vario has been released that addresses some of the teething problems of the first version (on which many of the early reviews were based on).

    From the horses mouth

    The main problem with the Vario is that it appears to be out of stock (at least in the UK)


    It seems since the dawn of time there has been a debate over whether doser or doserless is better. I guess ultimately it comes down to personal preference and the quirks of a particular grinder. But since I don't have much experience with grinders, I don't really know what my "preference" is.

    From what I gather from reading various threads, regarding the Macap, RE*AC*TOR has the doser model and Mr. Magnolia has the doserless? Can you guys shed any light on the pros and cons of each type and why you chose one over the other ?

    I think I am leaning towards the stepless doser model. I am not so concerned about wasting coffee (chances are beans will go stale on occasion anyway, so it will get wasted one way or another). I would like to minimize mess and clumping as much as possible. The doserless M4 seems to be more suited to bulk grinding into a bag (at least that's what it was originally designed for) and I've read a few threads on other sites where people did not like the doserless version.

    davej


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    #22
    RE*AC*TOR
    Registered Users Posts: 7,482 ✭✭✭RE*AC*TOR


    The stepless Macap would be completely impractical for switching between coarse and fine grinds.

    The doser improves distribution (breaks up clumps), and for me reduces mess. A doser would be a PITA if you want to do non-espresso grinds though. Very little clearance beneath it for a receptacle.


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    #23
    davej
    Registered Users Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭davej


    RE*AC*TOR wrote: »
    The stepless Macap would be completely impractical for switching between coarse and fine grinds.

    The doser improves distribution (breaks up clumps), and for me reduces mess. A doser would be a PITA if you want to do non-espresso grinds though. Very little clearance beneath it for a receptacle.

    Well yes, I wouldn't attempt to regularly switch between grinds on a stepless Macap (or even a stepped one for that matter). But your point about the space under the doser is duly noted :)

    davej


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    #24
    Clinker
    Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭Clinker


    While waiting for the Mahlkönig Vario to become available again, I just bought a Mahlkönig Guatemala on eBay! I wonder will it solve my problems? Of course it remains to be seen whether

    1. it arrives
    2. it works
    3. it can be used for espresso and FP
    4. it fits in my kitchen!


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    #25
    Doodee
    Registered Users Posts: 6,419 ✭✭✭Doodee


    This mean your selling an MC2? :D


    We need a new grinder here in work, too many taunts when using our hand mills :/


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    #26
    Clinker
    Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭Clinker


    If/when the Guatemala arrives and works, then I will be selling an MC2. Or two of them, depending on how it goes!

    Watch this space!


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    #27
    Clinker
    Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭Clinker


    I finally have my Mahlkönig Guatemala in my kitchen. Actually I thought I was never going to get it, but the seller had sent it to my work address, despite my repeated request to send it to my home address! I returned after academic holidays yesterday to finds it had been waiting for me for two weeks! To think of all the emails I had to compose in German asking the vendor what had happened.

    Man, but this is a big grinder! And heavy! I remember seeing them in German supermarkets 30 years ago, but I'd forgotten how big they are. This of course gives it very low WAF.

    My particular one may have been one of the ones I saw in a German supermarket all those years ago: it looks very old, and is very dirty. It works like blazes though: that's one powerful motor. And fast! It takes no time to get through those beans. A bit of a jolt to start with, then pretty quiet for a coffee grinder. Much quieter than my Iberital MC2s.

    I'm hoping it will be accepted into the kitchen and I'll get it cleaned up and adjusted and lubricated. (Helpful set of videos on the US Mahlkönig site if you're thinking of something similar.)

    I got it for €161 + €29.90 p&p on German eBay, which has a section devoted to coffee grinders, where heavy-duty Mahlkönigs show up frequently. Many go for more than mine did, many are much newer. Other makes (Mazzer, Anfim) show up there to as do antique, retro and hand grinders. Disadvantages are that the sellers expect payment by bank transfer, to send to Germany and to communicate in German. However when I contacted my seller she had no problem taking PayPal and sending to Ireland ("though that will of course be more expensive"), but I did have to work through my rusty but serviceable German.


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    #28
    Doodee
    Registered Users Posts: 6,419 ✭✭✭Doodee


    Heh, Good to hear Clinker. :D

    Will you be documenting the restortation at all? Keep us posted if you are.
    I've had the same issues when buying hardware from German sites, they all prefer Bank transfer 0_0

    Enjoy the grind.


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    #29
    Clinker
    Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭Clinker


    My taciturn eBay seller tells me that she got the Guatemala about two years ago from a Bäckerei (mmm, German pastries) which closed down because the owners were over 70. They had taken the business over from their parents, so my grinder could be very old!

    @Doodee: I'm not sure what documentation I can do on the restoration: it needs cleaning, adjustment and lubrication, but none of these will show up well in photographs.

    It will be interesting to see what the burrs are like when I finally get round to dismantling it. It actually came with its original instruction sheets (in German only) in an ancient waxed paper envelope, and from these I see that polished parts can be refreshed with the use of a soft cloth with "Wiener Kalk". Wiener Kalk turns out to be Vienna lime, which is a very fine chalk powder used for polishing metals. The lacquered and the plastic parts are only to be wiped with a soft cloth. Stuck-on dirt can be removed with "PRIL-Wasser" if necessary. It turns out that "Pril" is a German brand of washing-up liquid (originally powder) which first appeared in 1958, so that's the oldest my Guatemala can be!

    BTW, I'd be glad to know where I can get Vienna lime, if anyone knows...


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    #30
    Clinker
    Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭Clinker


    Testing:

    The Guatemala is really excellent for French Press, a much cleaner cup than with the MC2. I was always known among family and friends for making a good FP, and one of the joys of bring inducted into proper coffee making (by ch2008 when I bought his Gaggia Classic and MC2) was to find how much better FP could be with freshly ground dated-roast coffee. I had always found it to have a slightly off (meaty!) taste together with some bitterness. Now these attributes are gone, and I'm experiencing the variety of coffees available on the internet. Now the Guatemala has brought it to a new level!

    For espresso there is good news and bad news. The good news is that it's easy to go from coarse to fine and back again with the Guatemala, and repeatably get the same espresso grind. So it could be a dual-purpose grinder, and I could sweeten the pill (for my wife) of having the monstrous yoke in the kitchen by reducing the number of grinders to one. The bad news is that it seems to generate a lot of static in the fine grind, so that the texture of the grinds seems quite different to what I get from the MC2: stickier: you'd swear they were a little wet, but they aren't. This of course means severe clumping, resulting in channeling most of the time. This isn't good (especially with a naked PF: coffee sprays everywhere!) and my feeling is that my shots are better with the Guatemala when there's no channeling, but not as good (as well as messy) when there is, which is most of the time. Frustrating!!

    Anyway, I probably have to solve the static problem or sell the Guatemala again, which would be a pity as it shows such promise! And makes such a big statement! I'm wondering if earthing the metal spout would do the trick, and, if so, what the best way to accomplish this would be. Any suggestions?


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    #31
    Gran Hermano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,330 ✭✭✭Gran Hermano


    Time for the Weiss Distribution Technique? Might be worth a punt.

    Nothing worse than the naked portafilter spurting coffee sideways onto clean stainless steel :D


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