Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Survey-new movement
Options
-
22-06-2009 11:14pm#1Hey everybody! I'm just trying to get a new political movement or a faction moving and I would like to ask you what do you think of its ideas and the ten point plan it has. It would be a capitalist right wing movement, as I believe there is a gap in the public representation on the right, since FF or FG are more center based. The movement would be aimed at the middle-class people, business people but particularly, in the early stage, at the intelligentsia and students since I will be going to college next year and it will be much easier to get its ideas across. (this does not rule out having members from other classes, its just a prediction, an estimate). Thanks
Here's the plan:
1. Have a political system where the government is made up off top experts in their field, not TDs. The Taoiseach, who also would be a top expert, would be nominated by the coalition that will form within the Dail, and he will then pick out his cabinet. The cabinet will have to be approved by the Dail, along with its program. This will make the cabinet apolitical, which means it will take decissions that will be good for the country, as based on their analitical expertise, not on the popular demand. Since every law will have to pass the Dail, this will ensure that that people's wishes will be still listened to. Also since TDs have the power to produce new bills and acts in the Dail, it will but greater pressure on them from their electorate, who will demand that they shall draft out these bills.
2. Flat rate of tax. Introduce a flat rate of tax across the board on all taxable items. This way some taxes will drop, others will increase. The main advantage of this system is that it is very simply and a flat rate is proved to reduce tax fraud, as people generally don't bother putting in the work to avoid tax payments anymore. The decreased tax on incomes allows for more money for the citizen, which he can spend on goods, on which VAT will be taxed, giving the state more money in VAT payments and other such taxes and also supporting production and increasing employment ie more money for the state from new income taxes.
3. Reduced social welfare benefits, not payments. By this I mean things like the state granting people money to pay for heating or rent. Also the jobseekers allowence would be reduced to 60% or 70% of the minimum income, encouraging people to go to and find a job. Jobseekers benefit will remain the same.
4. A complete reform of the education system, with continuous assessment rather than one exam to determine your life. This would include a change in the primary education as well, where children would also be assessed annually, with a greater selection of subject to increase the level of knowledge between the children in primary sector, which is among the lowest in the EU.
5. A foreign policy that supports the EU and the integration and well being of the EU members. This would include following the path of the Lisbon Treaty. A vital part for this would also be to create great exchange schemes for students in the secondary schools. On these exchanges they would gain the knowledge of other European cultures and hopefully will learn to accept them.
6. Reduced minimal wage by the value of deflation. This would allow a greater competitiveness to the Irish workforce and would not damage the people, due to the deflation.
7. Selling off some semi state companies, such as the ESB, that the state doesn't need. In the case of ESB the state doesn't need it to regulate the prices of electricity as the state can still regulate the prices through Board Gais, which makes owning both companies a luxury that we can't afford at the moment.
8. Use the money from selling of semi state companies to finance stimuli that would attract new companies to Ireland. This would include reaching a deal with the company that the state would make such and such contribution towards the company for a workplace that it'll create in Ireland. The contract would include also clause of the minimal time the company has to be in Ireland, and not pack off to other country at the earliest opportunity. This would enhance the competitiveness yet again.
9. Make a great audit of the public service sector, axing all the incompetent and inefficient agencies that have been created in the public sector, to save money, and also to send the message that public service sector is not a sector from which you can't be fired or your wages reduced.
10. Reducing the role of the unions. I'm not saying the unions are bad, or that they are to be completely destroyed, but their influence has grown to a radically high level right now.0
Comments
-
It sounds like Plato's Republic to me - a surefire recipe for authoritarianism!0
-
We had a right wing representation in the Dáil.
They were the party formerly known as the PDs.
They were voted out of existence, by DEMOCRACY.
The sole remaining lump of sediment from this short lived exercise in right wingery is presently trying to have sick children banished out of Irish hospital wards to any arbitrary hospital in the UK or abroad who might care to have them. The further away they go, the quicker we might all forget about them. Irish voters do have short memories, don't they? Who was it that said that again?
Right wing politics in Ireland?
NO THANKS!0 -
Wow paddyland, tell us more about these right-wingers. You seem to be a treasure trove of factual information!0
-
1. Have a political system where the government is made up off top experts in their field, not TDs. The Taoiseach, who also would be a top expert, would be nominated by the coalition that will form within the Dail, and he will then pick out his cabinet. The cabinet will have to be approved by the Dail, along with its program. This will make the cabinet apolitical, which means it will take decissions that will be good for the country, as based on their analitical expertise, not on the popular demand. Since every law will have to pass the Dail, this will ensure that that people's wishes will be still listened to. Also since TDs have the power to produce new bills and acts in the Dail, it will but greater pressure on them from their electorate, who will demand that they shall draft out these bills.
I'm not sure about this bit. How do you propose that theses experts are elected (or selected??) to the Dail? Also if the cabinet needs the backing of the majority of the Dail - how will that make them apolitical? Surely they will form allegiances.
Nice to see that you have thought about things though and have put a few ideas together. Better than just moaning about it.0 -
We had a right wing representation in the Dáil.
They were the party formerly known as the PDs.
They were voted out of existence, by DEMOCRACY.
The sole remaining lump of sediment from this short lived exercise in right wingery is presently trying to have sick children banished out of Irish hospital wards to any arbitrary hospital in the UK or abroad who might care to have them. The further away they go, the quicker we might all forget about them. Irish voters do have short memories, don't they? Who was it that said that again?
Right wing politics in Ireland?
NO THANKS!
thats your opinion, but right wing parties arent about all profits and letting the citizen to starve on the street. in the right wing parties there is such a concept as solidarity as well, you know, its actually very strong. We just dont like lay abouts that abuse the state's social programmes and do not contribute to the societyIskenderun wrote: »It sounds like Plato's Republic to me - a surefire recipe for authoritarianism!
oh you mean the first point? why authoritarianism? dont you think there's enough transparency in that system?0 -
Advertisement
-
Euro_Kraut wrote: »I'm not sure about this bit. How do you propose that theses experts are elected (or selected??) to the Dail? Also if the cabinet needs the backing of the majority of the Dail - how will that make them apolitical? Surely they will form allegiances.
Nice to see that you have thought about things though and have put a few ideas together. Better than just moaning about it.
firstly, thanks:D
The candidate for the post of the taoiseach would be selected by the majority coalition in the dail, and would have to be approved by the president. then this new taoiseach would have say 2 weeks to shortlist candidates for the various ministries and put them forward to the dail, which whose vote would give these candidates their full mandate(or not, in case they do not meet the expectations). So to answer your question, the taoiseach selects them and the dail votes on them, either rejecting them or approving of them. When voting on these candidates the dail will also be, in fact, voting on the program they put forward.
its a fair point to say that they will be not be trully political, true. I think the point of this is to have people who know what they're doing as the cabinet, as opposed to people who, during one term are minister for foreign affairs, then in the next term they switch to finance and in the next to say agriculture and thats all because they really dont know much about these fields. The reason why they would be apolitical(well mostly apolitical, as you pointed out) is when they introduce a bill that might not neccassary be supported by the coalition that elected them in. this would mean the ministers would have to try and persuade the dail to support his/her views, giver arguements, facts, and this would open up a debate. also the government would only be bound to the coallition in the dail by its program, so it could introduce a bill that will be, in its opinion, beneficial to ireland, but not supported by the coalition that got them in power but still not in conflict with its program. yet again this would offer greater room for debate and could make the governance of the country not one-sided, as would be the case if politicians would be in the cabinet, i think.
sorry if the ideas seems a bit mashed up and confused, i'm still working out all the trapholes and procedures how these things can actually work.0 -
i hate to be doing this, just to make this thread rise up, but does anyone else have any suggestions or opinions about the ten points i've raised? i would love to get more feedback, thanks0
-
Your suggestions seem to suggest less democracy, and more one party utopia, a kind of right wing soviet style autocracy. That would combine all the worst elements of right wing politics with all the worst elements of single party self perpetuating dictatorship. Maybe I have it all wrong, and I'm sure you don't mean it that way. Why for example, will it support the Lisbon Treaty by default? Arguably half the country may well vote against Lisbon. What is democratic about that? Reduce the role of the unions? Just like that? Thousands of people are paid up members of unions. What do you propose reducing? Their democratic vote?
Whatever you intended it to mean, it reads simply as a list of all the things you personally would do if you were in power, rather than how you would see other people have a more democratic say in the running of the country. Some of your ideas would be opposite to mine. So why would your ideas be in the best interests of the country any more than mine? That is where democracy steps in. But all of your points 2 to 10 are a wish list of things that in your opinion would be for the good of the country, and you make precious little mention of where the democratic will of the country might have a say in the matter. I'm not saying they are all bad, but you seem to suggest imposing them on the country whether they are wanted or not.
Politics is dominated by agendas and vested interests. The Bertie Aherns of this world rise to the top of whatever political system you put in place, and usurp it to their own ends. Figure out a way to keep dishonest people out of politics, figure out a way to prevent absolute power from absolutely corrupting people, and you might have a winner. It hasn't been invented yet.
I'd like us to have that panel of experts advising us how to run the country. I most definitely would not like to have them telling us how to run it. In the meantime, I'd rather see ordinary people have more of a voice in the running of their own country, not less.
I'd like to give you credit for proposing change. But something in the way you present your ideas makes me sick and angry. You need to mix outside your narrow circle a bit. Live life from both sides.0 -
I'd agree with the majority of your points on principal (if not on a practical basis as things stand.)
However I don't agree with a flat out rate of tax. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this, maybe you could explain it a bit more? Do you mean the same level of income tax for everyone? The same level of VAT for all goods? Taxes on things like cigarettes and alcohol? Could you be a bit more clear on this point. I'm in favour of lowering taxes accross the board but the kind of system you're talking about seems almost too simplisitc without more details. I think goods like booze and smokes should be taxed at higher rates to act as a disincentive, almost the only form of paternalism I'm in favour of. Also we need things like carbon taxes.
I like the education plan, very ambitious and would need sizable investment but the rest of your ideas are all about cutting back expenditure so that's all good.
I like your first point about the Cabinet being made up of apolitical experts in theory and obviously I can see how having an economist as minister for finance makes a lot of sense for example but in other areas it's not so obvious. Should the minister for health be a doctor? All well and good they know about the health service, but only from a doctors point of view, there could be a tendancy to pander to the interests of fellow doctors (which is definitely not what we need right now) They may be a fantastic doctor but that says nothing about their ability to manage a massive budget and allocate resources nationwide. You almost need experienced politicians/civil servants in these roles, but I'd agree we definitely need people with more expertise on the Cabinet.
The apolitical Taoiseach worrys me a bit. Who exactly is this person? Why would the parties nominate him/her. What's to stop someone sponsoring a party's election campaign on the promise that they'll elect him as taoiseach?
The figurehead of the government and the state (the president aside) needs to be directly elected by the people. I can't imagine a system whereby we vote for parties and then once elected they nominate some Joe Soap to lead the country.
Great post overall though. We definitely need a party that promotes more individual choice in the economy. FG is not the solution.0 -
Yeah...down with this sort of thing...0
-
Advertisement
-
And in relation to education you are of course talking about privatising it are you?..or funding it from selling coke in the canteen?0
-
Your suggestions seem to suggest less democracy, and more one party utopia, a kind of right wing soviet style autocracy. That would combine all the worst elements of right wing politics with all the worst elements of single party self perpetuating dictatorship. Maybe I have it all wrong, and I'm sure you don't mean it that way. Why for example, will it support the Lisbon Treaty by default? Arguably half the country may well vote against Lisbon. What is democratic about that?
Whatever you intended it to mean, it reads simply as a list of all the things you personally would do if you were in power, rather than how you would see other people have a more democratic say in the running of the country. Some of your ideas would be opposite to mine. So why would your ideas be in the best interests of the country any more than mine? That is where democracy steps in. But all of your points 2 to 10 are a wish list of things that in your opinion would be for the good of the country, and you make precious little mention of where the democratic will of the country might have a say in the matter.
Politics is dominated by agendas and vested interests. The Bertie Aherns of this world rise to the top of whatever political system you put in place, and usurp it to their own ends. Figure out a way to keep dishonest people out of politics, figure out a way to prevent absolute power from absolutely corrupting people, and you might have a winner. It hasn't been invented yet.
I'd like us to have that panel of experts advising us how to run the country. I most definitely would not like to have them telling us how to run it. In the meantime, I'd rather see ordinary people have more of a voice in the running of their own country, not less.
i never mentioned one party. in fact i dont like the rule of one single party, i think it doesnt serve well for the country as the party does whatever it wants, knowing nothing can stop it. Three party government, i think is the optimum.
About Lisbon, I support it, and would get a movement that I create support it, as it is in the best interest of both ireland and the eu. it allows for a new phase in the eu, in which ireland would, no doubt, play a great role. the qualitative majority system is one that finally bring dynamics into the eu and giving more power to the ep and national parliaments makes it more transparent and controllable. That is, among other things, the reason why is support lisbon. No doubt there are people that do not but when you create a movement you can't represent everyone. each of human beings is different, unique, and so no one can realistically create some organization or movement to represent everyone's wishes. that is the beaty of democracy, if you dont agree with my points you can state so, as you have done:D, and then we can have a debate on them. i cant aim to represent everyone, that would create that one party utopia, which i would not like to see.
I'm not saying my ideas are great or better than yours...all i'm saying is, here people, i'm thinking of setting up a movement with these ideas, tell me would you be inclined to agree with them, what needs more work, which ideas are just plain dumb? thats the sole purpose, not trying to enforce anything upon anyone.
i believe the way to get those people that abuse the political system out is just as i have described in step 1- getting apolitical figures to form the cabinet.
this is not taking away democracy from people...people still elect TDs and the TDs still control the cabinet. it stays the same. the cabinet, only, is apolitical and actually has expertise in the areas that it implements policies.
forgive me this remark, but i have to ask, are you inclined to lean more on the left of the political spectrum?0 -
1. Have a political system where the government is made up off top experts in their field, not TDs. The Taoiseach, who also would be a top expert, would be nominated by the coalition that will form within the Dail, and he will then pick out his cabinet. The cabinet will have to be approved by the Dail, along with its program. This will make the cabinet apolitical, which means it will take decissions that will be good for the country, as based on their analitical expertise, not on the popular demand. Since every law will have to pass the Dail, this will ensure that that people's wishes will be still listened to. Also since TDs have the power to produce new bills and acts in the Dail, it will but greater pressure on them from their electorate, who will demand that they shall draft out these bills.
above 1 sounds cool to me!
2. Flat rate of tax. Introduce a flat rate of tax across the board on all taxable items. This way some taxes will drop, others will increase. The main advantage of this system is that it is very simply and a flat rate is proved to reduce tax fraud, as people generally don't bother putting in the work to avoid tax payments anymore. The decreased tax on incomes allows for more money for the citizen, which he can spend on goods, on which VAT will be taxed, giving the state more money in VAT payments and other such taxes and also supporting production and increasing employment ie more money for the state from new income taxes.
nope sounds terriable. The reason that 2 taxes were brought in was so the poor were not paying as much as the rich! I can see why your rightwing your principles are correct but you will not get my vote
3. Reduced social welfare benefits, not payments. By this I mean things like the state granting people money to pay for heating or rent. Also the jobseekers allowence would be reduced to 60% or 70% of the minimum income, encouraging people to go to and find a job. Jobseekers benefit will remain the same. Nope! I cannot wait till your in the same boat but again as a right winger you are fine!
4. A complete reform of the education system, with continuous assessment rather than one exam to determine your life. This would include a change in the primary education as well, where children would also be assessed annually, with a greater selection of subject to increase the level of knowledge between the children in primary sector, which is among the lowest in the EU. Think this is a brilliant idea. Is education going to be free!
5. A foreign policy that supports the EU and the integration and well being of the EU members. This would include following the path of the Lisbon Treaty. A vital part for this would also be to create great exchange schemes for students in the secondary schools. On these exchanges they would gain the knowledge of other European cultures and hopefully will learn to accept them.
6. Reduced minimal wage by the value of deflation. This would allow a greater competitiveness to the Irish workforce and would not damage the people, due to the deflation. ok maybe not sure here
7. Selling off some semi state companies, such as the ESB, that the state doesn't need. In the case of ESB the state doesn't need it to regulate the prices of electricity as the state can still regulate the prices through Board Gais, which makes owning both companies a luxury that we can't afford at the moment. ok but I dont agree with it!
8. Use the money from selling of semi state companies to finance stimuli that would attract new companies to Ireland. This would include reaching a deal with the company that the state would make such and such contribution towards the company for a workplace that it'll create in Ireland. The contract would include also clause of the minimal time the company has to be in Ireland, and not pack off to other country at the earliest opportunity. This would enhance the competitiveness yet again. How would you inforce this!
9. Make a great audit of the public service sector, axing all the incompetent and inefficient agencies that have been created in the public sector, to save money, and also to send the message that public service sector is not a sector from which you can't be fired or your wages reduced. ok maybe
10. Reducing the role of the unions. I'm not saying the unions are bad, or that they are to be completely destroyed, but their influence has grown to a radically high level right now. Typical bull! I was waiting for this!
I am just wondering.... Are you margret thatcher or michael mc dowell0 -
Deleted User wrote: »And in relation to education you are of course talking about privatising it are you?..or funding it from selling coke in the canteen?
not at all. i would cetainly welcome private schools, who would get no state support, as opposed to the system we have now when the state pays a contribution to the private schools.
However i would still go for the reform, have state schools set up(not just use the ones from the church) and have people decide. Get more education into primary schools, because the children in primary schools learn very little in those 6 years that they spend there and to have them to actually put the work in i would introduce continuous assessment.0 -
Well ok fair enough, but from experience, any government with the economic view you propose generally leads to funding being cut from education..
And id feel much better about cutting a few quid off the dole for the army of twentysomethings than cutting off a families heating..0 -
Joey the lips wrote: »1. Have a political system where the government is made up off top experts in their field, not TDs. The Taoiseach, who also would be a top expert, would be nominated by the coalition that will form within the Dail, and he will then pick out his cabinet. The cabinet will have to be approved by the Dail, along with its program. This will make the cabinet apolitical, which means it will take decissions that will be good for the country, as based on their analitical expertise, not on the popular demand. Since every law will have to pass the Dail, this will ensure that that people's wishes will be still listened to. Also since TDs have the power to produce new bills and acts in the Dail, it will but greater pressure on them from their electorate, who will demand that they shall draft out these bills.
above 1 sounds cool to me!
2. Flat rate of tax. Introduce a flat rate of tax across the board on all taxable items. This way some taxes will drop, others will increase. The main advantage of this system is that it is very simply and a flat rate is proved to reduce tax fraud, as people generally don't bother putting in the work to avoid tax payments anymore. The decreased tax on incomes allows for more money for the citizen, which he can spend on goods, on which VAT will be taxed, giving the state more money in VAT payments and other such taxes and also supporting production and increasing employment ie more money for the state from new income taxes.
nope sounds terriable. The reason that 2 taxes were brought in was so the poor were not paying as much as the rich! I can see why your rightwing your principles are correct but you will not get my vote
3. Reduced social welfare benefits, not payments. By this I mean things like the state granting people money to pay for heating or rent. Also the jobseekers allowence would be reduced to 60% or 70% of the minimum income, encouraging people to go to and find a job. Jobseekers benefit will remain the same. Nope! I cannot wait till your in the same boat but again as a right winger you are fine!
4. A complete reform of the education system, with continuous assessment rather than one exam to determine your life. This would include a change in the primary education as well, where children would also be assessed annually, with a greater selection of subject to increase the level of knowledge between the children in primary sector, which is among the lowest in the EU. Think this is a brilliant idea. Is education going to be free!
5. A foreign policy that supports the EU and the integration and well being of the EU members. This would include following the path of the Lisbon Treaty. A vital part for this would also be to create great exchange schemes for students in the secondary schools. On these exchanges they would gain the knowledge of other European cultures and hopefully will learn to accept them.
6. Reduced minimal wage by the value of deflation. This would allow a greater competitiveness to the Irish workforce and would not damage the people, due to the deflation. ok maybe not sure here
7. Selling off some semi state companies, such as the ESB, that the state doesn't need. In the case of ESB the state doesn't need it to regulate the prices of electricity as the state can still regulate the prices through Board Gais, which makes owning both companies a luxury that we can't afford at the moment. ok but I dont agree with it!
8. Use the money from selling of semi state companies to finance stimuli that would attract new companies to Ireland. This would include reaching a deal with the company that the state would make such and such contribution towards the company for a workplace that it'll create in Ireland. The contract would include also clause of the minimal time the company has to be in Ireland, and not pack off to other country at the earliest opportunity. This would enhance the competitiveness yet again. How would you inforce this!
9. Make a great audit of the public service sector, axing all the incompetent and inefficient agencies that have been created in the public sector, to save money, and also to send the message that public service sector is not a sector from which you can't be fired or your wages reduced. ok maybe
10. Reducing the role of the unions. I'm not saying the unions are bad, or that they are to be completely destroyed, but their influence has grown to a radically high level right now. Typical bull! I was waiting for this!
I am just wondering.... Are you margret thatcher or michael mc dowell
i'm glad you agree with the first point, as that seems to be what people usually criticize:D
yes education would be free as opposed to this system when you pay for your leaving cert or your junior cert and pretty much every summer or Christmas examination. also i would be inclined to have the book schemes for every student, when the student gets his book for the given year, the condition of the book is recorded and then the student uses it during the year. should he deface it, he will have to pay back some of its value(or the whole value, depending on the amount of damage to the book).
the stimuli would really be enforcing it themselves. instead of giving the stimuli to the company the state would 'sell' their stimuli for the new job places for a minimum of x years. that would all be included in a contract that would be signed between the state and the company. the longer the minimum stay the higher the stimulus.
i was thinking you might have a problem with the last point:D alas its an essential point in a right wing movement:D
no, in fact the first i really heard of mrs thatcher and her policies was only about a month ago, until then i knew who she was and that she was disliked by many but also managed to transform the britain. I'd be more inclined to be the follower of the policies of Mikulas Dzurinda, a slovakian politician that got slovakia off its knees after winning the elections in 1998 and 2002.
here's a link if you want to check it out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikul%C3%A1%C5%A1_Dzurinda0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Well ok fair enough, but from experience, any government with the economic view you propose generally leads to funding being cut from education..
And id feel much better about cutting a few quid off the dole for the army of twentysomethings than cutting off a families heating..
no i think that education is really the way forward....seeing that i propose a cabinet of experts i believe there needs to be more money into the education so that these experts can develop and have enough resources. having said that i would introduce paying back your college fees after you finish studying, as i believe it would lead to people cherishing the third level education more.
i agree with the cutting the dole of the people in their twenties...they usually dont even bother trying to look for work as it is convenient for them to stay on the dole. still the cutting of the heating is also, i think, essential as i can see dozens of people abusing these benefits and bonuses to social welfare, something that should not be done.0 -
forgive me this remark, but i have to ask, are you inclined to lean more on the left of the political spectrum?
Funnily enough, no. I am somewhere in the centre, although radically left on some issues, and a bit to the right on others. Don't ask me to list them all.
I distrust all right wing politicians. I would stand for some right wing issues, but alas, right wing politics is spoiled by the bigoted nonsense spouted by many right wing politicians. Some right wing people would have a very valuable contribution to make. Michael O'Leary, for example, would have a lot of value in government right now. I would respect his opinions. But how are you going to reign him in when he starts trying to turn every worker in Ireland into a mini-me Ryanair employee? These people are very shrewd thinkers, but they can run away with themselves. Where would we be if there were no Aer Lingus and Ryanair owned and ran the DAA? As long as we have both, then there are checks and balances in the system.
Likewise, the union leaders are just as apt to spout nonsense, and drag this country down into a black hole from which there is no return. Yet if there were no unions at all, where would IBEC lead the ordinary people of Ireland? Perhaps some people would like us to have no minimum wage at all, and work 70 hour weeks for €1 an hour. Again, it's all about checks and balances.
Put anyone with too strong a sense of their own vested interest in charge, and they are apt to run away off on a tangent. It's all about checks and balances, fairness, truth, honesty and openness. Too much public business is conducted behind closed doors, particularly in relation to the allocation of public money. TAXPAYER'S money. I want to pay a fair amount. But I'm damned sure I want to have more of a say where it goes than I do at present. And I would like every red cent of it to be accounted back to me.0 -
But in reality heat and electricity are a major cost to most people..and going up rapidly also..why not apply these cuts at source maybe, to stop people abusing it..I suppose you're for privatising the water supply?..0
-
manicmonoliths wrote: »I'd agree with the majority of your points on principal (if not on a practical basis as things stand.)
However I don't agree with a flat out rate of tax. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this, maybe you could explain it a bit more? Do you mean the same level of income tax for everyone? The same level of VAT for all goods? Taxes on things like cigarettes and alcohol? Could you be a bit more clear on this point. I'm in favour of lowering taxes accross the board but the kind of system you're talking about seems almost too simplisitc without more details. I think goods like booze and smokes should be taxed at higher rates to act as a disincentive, almost the only form of paternalism I'm in favour of. Also we need things like carbon taxes.
I like the education plan, very ambitious and would need sizable investment but the rest of your ideas are all about cutting back expenditure so that's all good.
I like your first point about the Cabinet being made up of apolitical experts in theory and obviously I can see how having an economist as minister for finance makes a lot of sense for example but in other areas it's not so obvious. Should the minister for health be a doctor? All well and good they know about the health service, but only from a doctors point of view, there could be a tendancy to pander to the interests of fellow doctors (which is definitely not what we need right now) They may be a fantastic doctor but that says nothing about their ability to manage a massive budget and allocate resources nationwide. You almost need experienced politicians/civil servants in these roles, but I'd agree we definitely need people with more expertise on the Cabinet.
The apolitical Taoiseach worrys me a bit. Who exactly is this person? Why would the parties nominate him/her. What's to stop someone sponsoring a party's election campaign on the promise that they'll elect him as taoiseach?
The figurehead of the government and the state (the president aside) needs to be directly elected by the people. I can't imagine a system whereby we vote for parties and then once elected they nominate some Joe Soap to lead the country.
Great post overall though. We definitely need a party that promotes more individual choice in the economy. FG is not the solution.
yes you are right i did not devote enough time to explain everything to do with the flat rate of tax. This would stretch out from the income tax through tax on profits, coporations tax, property tax,car tax to VAT. I agree that alcohol and cigarettes need a higher level of tax as does petrol, i believe. However I would lower the cigarettes tax a small bit as right now it just helps to create illegal smuggling of cigarettes to the country. I would increase the alcohol tax, however. I also agree on carbon and emission taxes being introduced, because I believe the environment should be preserved. I would keep these taxes on the same flat level.
yes education is the key really, and having come out of the secondary education just now, i know it desperately needs a reform.
no minister for health should not be a doctor, but rather, say the director of the University Hospital in Cork...for example. I would pick people with proven track record that shows that they were on leading positions in the institutions in the areas of concern and that they preformed well in that area.
i can see the problems arising with the apolitical taoiseach. i admit i must look into this again, because the concerns you have raised are all very real and there are in fact trapholes. i suppose the only measure that jumps to my mind right now would be to increase the power of the president and decrease the ones of the taoiseach. the taoiseach would be responsible for the cabinet to work as a unit, for the bills proposed etc but the president would have an executive power too...as i said this is just something that came to my mind right now, not thought through.
thank you and i'm glad that there are people out there that feel the same way:D0 -
Advertisement
-
Funnily enough, no. I am somewhere in the centre, although radically left on some issues, and a bit to the right on others. Don't ask me to list them all.
I distrust all right wing politicians. I would stand for some right wing issues, but alas, right wing politics is spoiled by the bigoted nonsense spouted by many right wing politicians. Some right wing people would have a very valuable contribution to make. Michael O'Leary, for example, would have a lot of value in government right now. I would respect his opinions. But how are you going to reign him in when he starts trying to turn every worker in Ireland into a mini-me Ryanair employee? These people are very shrewd thinkers, but they can run away with themselves. Where would we be if there were no Aer Lingus and Ryanair owned and ran the DAA? As long as we have both, then there are checks and balances in the system.
Likewise, the union leaders are just as apt to spout nonsense, and drag this country down into a black hole from which there is no return. Yet if there were no unions at all, where would IBEC lead the ordinary people of Ireland? Perhaps some people would like us to have no minimum wage at all, and work 70 hour weeks for €1 an hour. Again, it's all about checks and balances.
Put anyone with too strong a sense of their own vested interest in charge, and they are apt to run away off on a tangent. It's all about checks and balances, fairness, truth, honesty and openness. Too much public business is conducted behind closed doors, particularly in relation to the allocation of public money. TAXPAYER'S money. I want to pay a fair amount. But I'm damned sure I want to have more of a say where it goes than I do at present. And I would like every red cent of it to be accounted back to me.
ok then sorry of accusing you of being left wing. I agree with your Aer Lingus Ryanair example. Thats why I was advocating the sale of ESB as the state retain Board Gais and can still retain its tools to control the electricity cost. I also agree that when people look on their best interest it genrally doesnt work out nice, just as when people work so that wealth can be redistributed among all the citizens.
unions are good, in my opinion, and we need them, but they have been given too much influence and power and this needs to be reduced.
more transparency is also an issue i would hope to look at, just didnt get around to thinking up the bones of a model to ensure it yet.Deleted User wrote: »But in reality heat and electricity are a major cost to most people..and going up rapidly also..why not apply these cuts at source maybe, to stop people abusing it..I suppose you're for privatising the water supply?..
yes i know about hear and electricity and the prices are just ridiculously high. i'm quite happy that airtricity and board gais are finally destroying the monopoly of ESB and would like to see this in other sectors as well.
i'm sorry but i dont get what you mean by 'cuts at source', would you be able to explain that?
water supply is a complex issue...if the private company will provide clean water as opposed to the one we're getting right now i would be willing to pay for it. here too i would like to see two or three companies competing to ensure that there is no monopoly and prices are ludicrously high0 -
is it not enevitable that FF and FG will merge ??0
-
By at source i mean maybe some sort of arrangement with the company, you might call it a subsidy..They could probably do it the same way they apply mortgage relief..
But..Man, you're just out of secondary school and you seem to have developed a right wing mindset..Stop it..Go away and read some chomsky or something for yourself..This type of thing has been tried quite a bit..Selling off of what should be essential services just doesn't work..The whole dog eat dog mentality just leads to a two teir society..Neo liberal capitalism is eating itself..0 -
How do you decide what a top expert is?1. Have a political system where the government is made up off top experts in their field, not TDs. The Taoiseach, who also would be a top expert, would be nominated by the coalition that will form within the Dail, and he will then pick out his cabinet. The cabinet will have to be approved by the Dail, along with its program. This will make the cabinet apolitical, which means it will take decissions that will be good for the country, as based on their analitical expertise, not on the popular demand. Since every law will have to pass the Dail, this will ensure that that people's wishes will be still listened to. Also since TDs have the power to produce new bills and acts in the Dail, it will but greater pressure on them from their electorate, who will demand that they shall draft out these bills.
A cabinet approved by the Dáil would be apolitical?
What is for the "good of the country" is way too subjective. We live in a representative democracy where people are elected; you'll have a hard time getting people to elect representatives to the Dáil if they know that their wishes will be ignored when the government feel they know better.
So someone earning minimum wage pays the same tax as a millionaire on all goods?2. Flat rate of tax. Introduce a flat rate of tax across the board on all taxable items. This way some taxes will drop, others will increase. The main advantage of this system is that it is very simply and a flat rate is proved to reduce tax fraud, as people generally don't bother putting in the work to avoid tax payments anymore. The decreased tax on incomes allows for more money for the citizen, which he can spend on goods, on which VAT will be taxed, giving the state more money in VAT payments and other such taxes and also supporting production and increasing employment ie more money for the state from new income taxes.
This would push luxury items like cigarettes down and essentials up. Not a good idea.
You mention that income tax would be lower; to what level?
We are in a recession and people are being laid off across the board.3. Reduced social welfare benefits, not payments. By this I mean things like the state granting people money to pay for heating or rent. Also the jobseekers allowence would be reduced to 60% or 70% of the minimum income, encouraging people to go to and find a job. Jobseekers benefit will remain the same.
The supply (workers) exceeds demand (work)
Do you really think that they can be "incentivised"? We are not in a period where there is large scale employment.
Agreed; continuous assessment is a good way to go.4. A complete reform of the education system, with continuous assessment rather than one exam to determine your life. This would include a change in the primary education as well, where children would also be assessed annually, with a greater selection of subject to increase the level of knowledge between the children in primary sector, which is among the lowest in the EU.
When I was in school in Belgium, we had what was called an "A" mark and a "B" mark.
The A mark came from things like participation, punctulaity, continuous assessment etc etc. The teacher decided this.
The B mark came from exams.
However, the problem we encountered with continuous assessment was that the teacher had a lot of power; if they didn't like you, they could easily lower your mark. Sure you could appeal but it was extremely hard to do. To make it easier would be extremely expensive.
We are never going to really be competitive. Manafacturing can be done much cheaper in Eastern Europe and the service industrties can be done in the far east.6. Reduced minimal wage by the value of deflation. This would allow a greater competitiveness to the Irish workforce and would not damage the people, due to the deflation.
As someone who is slightly above the minimum wage, I'm curious as to how much you will reduce it by. What is our current deflationary status?
Last I heard, we were on around 10% or so. Lowering the minimum wagwe to €7.90 an hour or so would make little difference in attracting foreign investment.
Corporate welfare?8. Use the money from selling of semi state companies to finance stimuli that would attract new companies to Ireland. This would include reaching a deal with the company that the state would make such and such contribution towards the company for a workplace that it'll create in Ireland. The contract would include also clause of the minimal time the company has to be in Ireland, and not pack off to other country at the earliest opportunity. This would enhance the competitiveness yet again.
This has been tried in the US repeatedly. it's a dismal failure. The companies would never agree to being held in by a contract, unless you gave them such incredibly benefical options which we wouldn't be able to afford anyway.
The public sector is already one where you can be fired and your wages reduced.9. Make a great audit of the public service sector, axing all the incompetent and inefficient agencies that have been created in the public sector, to save money, and also to send the message that public service sector is not a sector from which you can't be fired or your wages reduced.
Surely this great audit would be incredibly expensive.
You think our unions have a strong influence?10. Reducing the role of the unions. I'm not saying the unions are bad, or that they are to be completely destroyed, but their influence has grown to a radically high level right now.
Mate, check out the French unions if you want to see strong unions.
A strong union is one which can drive the country to a standstill. Ours do the odd march or picket and that's it. Around 600,000 Irish workers are members of unions. That's not a high level.
How do you propose reducing the role of the unions?0 -
This post has been deleted.0
-
donegalfella wrote: »This post has been deleted.
He supports lower taxation, lower social welfare, lower minimum wage, state provided eductation, corporate welfare and reduced unions. All perfectly compatible with right wing ideology.
He can still be a right winger, albeit not as extreme as your own.0 -
This post has been deleted.0
-
donegalfella wrote: »This post has been deleted.
Well of course it doesn't place him in that particular camp, but that is a fairly extreme ideology. His views would place him in the right wing camp, just not as far as you are.0 -
im kind of thinking soft facism/corporatism..0
-
Advertisement
-
This post has been deleted.0
![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
Advertisement