Unofficial Bus Strike...

January · 26-04-2009 10:23am #1

Hiya guys...
Just to let you know have been onto Harristown Bus Depot and was told that there is an unofficial bus strike going on at the moment... anyone know more??

mikemac · 26-04-2009 10:32am

Posted just 6 minutes ago

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/less-buses-on-dublin-roads-from-today-408324.html

Fewer Dublin Buses were travelling the streets of the capital this morning as the company began the first phase of its cost-cutting plan.

The plan has reduced the company's fleet by 120 buses and cut the frequency of a number of routes, with others being discontinued altogether.

The changes caused workers to threaten industrial action at the company and were only being introduced today following the narrow acceptance by union members this week of Labour Court amendments to the company's original plan.

Full details of the changes can be found on the company’s website, dublin

This happened last time, or something similar at least. Drivers showed up, refused to do what they were instructed to do and got suspended.

Now I don't know the exact details. I'd say this was very likely to happen, should be sorted soon

lostexpectation · 26-04-2009 10:33am

what bus were you trying to get?

just reported on news talk, strike of 30 drivers at harristown over diasgreements at new parctices that were supposed to implemented today

andrew163 · 26-04-2009 1:26pm

Fire them all. *pitchfork* :mad:

dub_commuter · 26-04-2009 2:17pm

With all due respect DB knew there was a problem with the 128 before today, and they could have delayed it until 10th May like all the other disputed changes and just introduced the ones there was agreement on.

However that would make far too much sense and I can only guess that DB were looking for a dispute. They now have notice on their website about it, even if they don't seem to know their own routes very well as some of the info is incorrect.

lucernarian · 26-04-2009 3:19pm

Can anyone actually explain what was wrong with the 128 before today, apart from drivers always leaving both terminii a few minutes earlier than scheduled and there being no buses leaving the cc in either direction at around 6pm every weekday evening??

Those gombeens in DB treat the 128 as 2 half-routes. It's happened a few times where I've had to wait up to 15 minutes just for a new driver to come on at Burgh quay or at Eden quay. Especially at Burgh quay, which seems to attract parked 128 buses like flies on ****e.

I assume they've got some reason or other for doing this, so does anyone know why they've got a problem with leaving Dartry in Rathmines 6 times an hour on every 10th minute instead of leaving Dartry 6 times an hour on every 5th minute??? Because I can't see any other substantial change to the timetable. I'm really annoyed about this:mad:

spudz21 · 26-04-2009 3:28pm

adrieanne__x wrote: »

Hiya guys...
Just to let you know have been onto Harristown Bus Depot and was told that there is an unofficial bus strike going on at the moment... anyone know more??

The numbers 4/4a and the 13/13a weren't operating this morning, was in town trying to get a bus out

Anyone know if they are running again or is it an all day strike?

ixoy · 26-04-2009 4:03pm

dub_commuter wrote: »

With all due respect DB knew there was a problem with the 128 before today, and they could have delayed it until 10th May like all the other disputed changes and just introduced the ones there was agreement on.

And to be fair the drivers of the other routes didn't need to scale up their protest and cause much more disruption.

I thought everything had been accepted as well, including time-table changes? Why such a fuss over one route? Really work practices are changing these days and surely there needs to be some more flexibility? Or is there more to this particular piece of the dispute?

Victor · 26-04-2009 4:08pm

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/Travel-News/Service-Disruption/

Service Disruption
Sunday, April 26, 2009

Dublin Bus wishes to apologise to customers for the disruption to services on the following routes.

4/4a Ballymun to Blackrock/Stradbrook

13/13a Ballymun to Merrion Square

17a Finglas to Kilbarrack

27b Eden Quay to Harristown via Beaumont Hospital

40a/b/c/d Finglas to City Centre

33b Portrane/Donabate to Swords

102.Sutton Station to Airport via Swords

128 Baldoyle to Rathmines

83 Finglas to Kimmage

237 Blanchardstown to Castleknock

238 Blanchardstown to Tyrellstown

270 Blanchardstown to Dunboyne

140 Finglas to Leeson Street

This disruption is due to unofficial Industrial action by drivers at Harristown depot following the introduction of service changes which were agreed and accepted following a Labour Court Recommendation.

All other Dublin Bus services are operating as normal.

SickCert · 26-04-2009 4:24pm

I thought everything had been accepted as well, including time-table changes? Why such a fuss over one route? Really work practices are changing these days and surely there needs to be some more flexibility? Or is there more to this particular piece of the dispute?

All new timetables being discussed locally at each depot, started last Monday.
The 14/a was to lose 10 drivers - after discussions its 2. It shows how managers quickly rushed out the new times pre LC.

lucernarian · 26-04-2009 4:38pm

Does anyone have info about what the 128 drivers are actually striking over??

And the other drivers going on strike really serves no purpose but to get one up on management in Harristown, with thousands of passengers losing out as a result. Solidarity is one thing, throwing toys out of the pram is another.

dub_commuter · 26-04-2009 4:40pm

Victor wrote: »

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/Travel-News/Service-Disruption/

The document is incorrect. The route numbers effected are correct, but clearly someone in Dublin Bus has no clue where the actual routes serve, as the 128 does not terminate in Baldoyle, the 238 doesn't even go through Tyrrelstown let alone terminate there, the 40D doesn't terminate in Finglas, the 4/13/83 in Harristown, not Ballymun/Finglas.

But then again the standard of information from Dublin Bus has always been crap, and the level of ignorance shown once again towards northside routes is quite apparant.

dub_commuter · 26-04-2009 4:43pm

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

And the other drivers going on strike really serves no purpose but to get one up on management in Harristown, with thousands of passengers losing out as a result. Solidarity is one thing, throwing toys out of the pram is another.

The war is not about getting one over management in Harristown at all, the people who are calling the shots are a two certain induviduals in HQ, rather than local management.

If it was not for the drivers, and certain senior staff in depots, you would find the cuts would be much worse than what they ahve been, and effect even more people.

dub_commuter · 26-04-2009 4:45pm

ixoy wrote: »

I thought everything had been accepted as well, including time-table changes? Why such a fuss over one route? Really work practices are changing these days and surely there needs to be some more flexibility? Or is there more to this particular piece of the dispute?

Unfortunately, particuarly in Harristown DB have changed their minds on several of the timetable changes post labour court which no doubt has not helped their position./ For example, the new timetables for the 40/40A/40D 13/A are now provisional, because of the fact DB is talking about the prospect of further cuts according to what a staff member told me.

dub_commuter · 26-04-2009 4:47pm

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Those gombeens in DB treat the 128 as 2 half-routes. It's happened a few times where I've had to wait up to 15 minutes just for a new driver to come on at Burgh quay or at Eden quay. Especially at Burgh quay, which seems to attract parked 128 buses like flies on ****e.

Yes. The drivers from Harristown went on strike for this very reason last year, that they did not want to change drivers in the city centre because of the fact it would cause this problem. However many people on these forums slaughtered them for going out on strike.

However, if Harristown drivers had got their way this would not be happening, so all of you who condemed them for striking have now got this as a consequence.

meanmachine3 · 26-04-2009 4:57pm

the following was posted in another thread by one of our colleagues
"In this letter Mr Maguire confirmed that the company would be utilising the current agreed Schedules Negotation procedures Up to and Including the Schedules Tribunal.
So thefore realistically the company is in no position to impliment any more than a few minor withdrawals next Sunday.
The largest problems appear to exist at locations where some Senior Managers have decided to "Get stuck In" by insisting that the new bills are starting in toto on the 26th."

now it seems to me here that the company or garage in question did not use the proper schedules procedure when implementing the new bills. i'd hazzard a guess at what went wrong this morning and it's most likely this. driver reports for work on 128 ,is handed a new board with a new timetable, driver refuses to do this as it wasn't agreed then most likely is suspended and as more drivers come in they find out whats after happening and therefore we have a knock on affect or domino affect whatever you want to call it. now i'm open for correction on this one.
taken from post 9 by victor
"This disruption is due to unofficial Industrial action by drivers at Harristown depot following the introduction of service changes which were agreed and accepted following a Labour Court Recommendation."
s.i.p.t.u. 56% in favor and n.b.r.u. 57% in favor giving a grand total on average of 56.5% in favor of document. in reality this means just over half of bus drivers voted in favor. someone once told me things are going to get nasty over the next few weeks and it seems it has come sooner rather than later.

dub_commuter · 26-04-2009 5:19pm

To reverse any doubt what happened was a driver turned up for work, was given the new board for the 128, refused to work it and was suspended for doing so. Drivers then offered to defer the changes until 10th May like other routes which have not yet been agreed to, Management refused, which let to an all out strike.

Dublin Bus management could have avoided all this by doing the sensible thing and postponing the cuts until they were agreed, however they chose to create a dispute. Why they needed to do this god only knows, I can only think they were looking for this.

They got the first set of changes in this weekend and they had to delay one route for a couple of weeks, in the grand scheme of things it would not make any difference as it's them losing a very small battle and winning many for the routes that have changed. But instead they chose this path.

lucernarian · 26-04-2009 5:26pm

Thanks for the info guys.

What's most clear in my mind as a customer is that there'll be lots of people affected by this. This is going to prove a major problem for some people I know. I can thank god that I can walk to the luas and make do with that for getting into college.

What's most important is to get some sort of service running again. The drivers on some routes seem united in their opposition to the carry-on in Harristown. I remember the previous strike over the 4a, though it did not affect me, so there's precedent for this. If DB management need to save money, and drivers insist that they can't work the timetable with less men or more stringent conditions as planned, there's a simple solution.

Reduce the frequency of routes.

I'd sooner have a reliable bus service that I can count on, every 15 minutes than a service that is virtually ad-hoc at peak times but has buses every 10 minutes when few people use them.

People need to have confidence in their bus routes, and workers and management antagonising each other and not getting on with their jobs will do no one any favours.

I may be shot down for that suggestion, but I seriously can't argue for empty buses driving every 10 minutes, when DB is losing millions each month and drivers are unhappy in their work.

meanmachine3 · 26-04-2009 6:37pm

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Thanks for the info guys.
I'd sooner have a reliable bus service that I can count on, every 15 minutes than a service that is virtually ad-hoc at peak times but has buses every 10 minutes when few people use them.

People need to have confidence in their bus routes, and workers and management antagonising each other and not getting on with their jobs will do no one any favours.
I may be shot down for that suggestion,

i couldn't agree more to_be.from what i can gather the running time from A to B was cut so instead of having lets say 75 mins to do this they only get 60 therefore the drivers have lost about 15 mins getting from one termini across to another. i have said on numerous occasions this is dangerous to both the driver and travelling public as drivers will be under severe pressure to make their times ,then the next thing is buses arrive late at their destination and must be regulated. e.g. on old bill bus left clongriffin at 10.45 then left rathmines at 12.00 under new schedule he could leave clongriffin at 11.00 then have to leave rathmines at 12.00. so if they ran late the 12.00 would not operate in most cases as the driver would have to be regulated to make their 13.00 from clongriffin and visa-versa this is how it works in theory and these problems with running times would be across the city and just confined to the 128. this would also be made worse where routes have been completely taken of certain roads and other routes then have to take up the flak.
in all garages there will be route changes and eliminations i just hope to god the same unoffical action doesn't arise in the other garages and that mangement will have the common sense to introduce these changes properly and with proper consultation with both unions and drivers. let harristown be a lesson learnt to all involved from the drivers right up to management

. i'm saying this because i'm sick of the whole thing. if everything had been thought through and acted on in a proper manner by both sides then we would'nt be in this mess that we're in.
meanie

Dyr · 26-04-2009 8:17pm

Wonder what they're union are going to do about them going on strike every time they feel like throwing the soother out of the pram? Protect them probably. Wasters.

dog-man-star · 26-04-2009 9:16pm

Hi,
Does anyone know if this just effect today's services or is the strike on Monday also?
Dublin Bus site just says Sunday, so fingers crossed.

dub_commuter · 26-04-2009 9:29pm

I clearly wonder about management at times. They clearly have zero idea. This afternoon they had a choice.

Put back the changes by two weeks and defer the withdrawl of two buses by two weeks.
OR
Suspend a driver which would lead to a whole out strike which would lead to at least the entire garage going out.

Laughably Dublin Bus elected to pick the second one. The most Ironic thing is it does nobody any favours, as what happened was entirley predictable to everyone bar management it seems. They will probbably lose more money from a whole garage being on strike than they will from defering the two buses by two weeks.

I see the website now says some routes will have a limited service, but neglect to mention which departures would be effected despite this info is easily avaliable to them. Very bloody helpful to their customers. Obviously they hold their customers in the same contempt of their staff.

John Mason · 26-04-2009 9:35pm

well looks like a sick day for me tomorrow

think i will bill dublin bus for a days loss of earnings:mad::mad::mad:

Dyr · 26-04-2009 9:45pm

dub_commuter wrote: »

Obviously they hold their customers in the same contempt of their staff.

That would be the same contempt the drivers have for their customers so.

dub_commuter · 26-04-2009 9:47pm

Bambi wrote: »

That would be the same contempt the drivers have for their customers so.

Not really, they're not the ones who are cutting 120 buses from the fleet.

ixoy · 26-04-2009 9:55pm

dub_commuter wrote: »

Not really, they're not the ones who are cutting 120 buses from the fleet.

But they are affecting those on the remaining buses. Is there really no other action they can take? I think it was said the fare refusal idea was illegal but surely something else exists?

Also if the changes had been delayed for two weeks, would we still have seen this disruption? Or is it that they haven't been ratified?

Dyr · 26-04-2009 9:57pm

They're the ones holding the commuters to ransom yet again.

dub_commuter · 26-04-2009 10:09pm

ixoy wrote: »

But they are affecting those on the remaining buses. Is there really no other action they can take? I think it was said the fare refusal idea was illegal but surely something else exists?

Also if the changes had been delayed for two weeks, would we still have seen this disruption? Or is it that they haven't been ratified?

DB got approval and agreement for the withdrawl of 28 buses this weekend. They could not reach an agreement on the 128 which includes 2 buses, but said instead they would force the changes through and deal with consequences later even though the schedules had not been agreed locally.

Other changes, in other garages have been delayed for two weeks, for the very same reason. This has been brewing for several days and across these days they have been trying to get this resolved. However DB say that they will not talk first, then implement before this weekend, they will only talk after they are implemented, presumably in attempt to force new terms through without agreement as they know they would not get them through any other way.

Bearing in mind that DB has got agreement for 28 buses, and they wanted 30 this weekend, which is 93% of the changes they wanted they have got, I would not have thought defering the changes, would do DB too much harm, after all, two buses running for two extra weeks cannot cost that much, if they have been constantly delaying 120 buses for weeks now.

Anybody with any commercial sense would clearly know, that it would be far more finanically sensible to defer two buses being withdrawn for two weeks than to risk an all out strike from happening, which would cose the company far more money than running the extra two buses, and that before you consider the bad press of the strike and the fact it will alienate more customers. Yet Dublin Bus, a company supposedly financially stricken, has chosen to weaken it's financial position by refusing to discuss the problems.

DB could have waited two weeks and avoided this. But unfortunately it seems someone is on a power trip, and will get their own way no matter what consequence it has on it's organisation, or the people it serves.

Now if you were running a large business, and had to chose betwen running two buses out of your fleet of 1000, for an extra two weeks than originally planned, or risking 20% of your staff going on stike what would you choose?

Dyr · 26-04-2009 10:21pm

dub_commuter wrote: »

D
Anybody with any commercial sense would clearly know, that it would be far more finanically sensible to defer two buses being withdrawn for two weeks than to risk an all out strike from happening, which would cose the company far more money than running the extra two buses, and that before you consider the bad press of the strike and the fact it will alienate more customers.

You could but then you'll spend you're whole time caving into to people who will call unofficial flash strikes every time they want to get their own way. Does that make commercial sense?

I'm a dublin bus customer and a trade union member, trust me the drivers aren't alienating me or anyone else from dublin bus. They're alienating me from their cause. I would gladly skip through any dublin bus picket line now, treat me with contempt and you'll get it back in spades.

January · 26-04-2009 10:34pm

Is there still going to be a strike tomorrow?

dub_commuter · 26-04-2009 10:39pm

adrieanne__x wrote: »

Is there still going to be a strike tomorrow?

Yes - Dublin Bus management have not made themselves avaliable for talks to resolve the issue and have not took the option to defer the changes, therefore they have made no effort to avoid the strike so there will be one.

Unofficial Bus Strike...

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