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The French know how to pull off a strike, could we learn from them?

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  • 29-01-2009 1:30pm
    #1
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭


    Down through the years the French have been very militant at pulling off strikes and have succeeded, It has been seen it with students, fishermen and truck drivers. Now they have pulled off this big one that has ground the country to a stand still. Could this be the start of many across Europe? What are thew chances of it happening in Ireland?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7857814.stm


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    #2
    Tabnabs
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,699 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    Strike over what? What would it achieve?


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    #3
    Caoimhín
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭Caoimhín


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    What are thew chances of it happening in Ireland?

    Feck all chance. The Irish are too fat and drunk, busy watching British soaps and football to take to the streets.

    The only time there is any protest is when vested interests and the vocal minority (see crazy people) take to the streets. The majority are too dumb and pacified with football and celebrities to do anything.


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    #4
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Dyflin wrote: »
    Strike over what?

    "Many are angry that the banks were given a multi-billion euro bail-out while floundering industries and businesses were offered far less help".


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    #5
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    "Many are angry that the banks were given a multi-billion euro bail-out while floundering industries and businesses were offered far less help".

    If the banks go bust, what happens to the money in the banks? Whose money is in the banks?

    Get back to me.


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    #6
    Soldie
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Soldie


    Caoimhín wrote: »
    The only time there is any protest is when vested interests and the vocal minority (see crazy people) take to the streets.

    Are you suggesting that the French protest just for the sake of it?


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    #7
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    "Many are angry that the banks were given a multi-billion euro bail-out while floundering industries and businesses were offered far less help".

    And so far the bank that was bailed out was done so because the people with loans from that bank, donated money to the main government political party, FF.

    basically a walk out and down to the dail to protest would achieve a walk up call to the politicians that we are mad as hell and we aren't going to take it anymore and that political reforms are needed and demanded by the people to ensure the greed that has lead to this crisis will not occur again.


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    #8
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,010 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Anybody going on strike at the moment would be shooting themselves in both feet and in the head.


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    #9
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Dyflin wrote: »
    What would it achieve?

    In France the elites have to factor in the general public and their reaction to their actions.

    We could do with being listened to, so maybe some street action might jolt FF out of their coma.


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    #10
    Caoimhín
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭Caoimhín


    Soldie wrote: »
    Are you suggesting that the French protest just for the sake of it?

    No. That is not what I am suggesting at all.


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    #11
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    Yes the main problem here is that you could never count on your work mates joining you in the strike action.

    They'd be more likely to go down the pub for a pint than show up at the dail to protest or they'd stay at home.

    Some would probably go to work to try to make the ones that didn't get fired and move up the corporate ladder.

    Its not a bad idea but I don't think the people here would allow it to happen themselves. They will fight against those that would through apathy or greed.


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    #12
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,010 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    thebman wrote: »
    Yes the main problem here is that you could never count on your work mates joining you in the strike action.

    They'd be more likely to go down the pub for a pint than show up at the dail to protest or they'd stay at home.

    Some would probably go to work to try to make the ones that didn't get fired and move up the corporate ladder.

    Its not a bad idea but I don't think the people here would allow it to happen themselves. They will fight against those that would through apathy or greed.

    So, basically, you'd be standing on your own with a placard, and would be regarded as a lone nutter by the general public.


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    #13
    pigeonbutler
    Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭pigeonbutler


    thebman wrote: »
    And so far the bank that was bailed out was done so because the people with loans from that bank, donated money to the main government political party, FF.
    QUOTE]

    Does that make any sense?

    If you owed loads of money to a bank would you not be delighted if it went bust and couldn't enforce the loan?

    Why would keeping it going benefit you in any way?


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    #14
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    pigeonbutler wrote: »
    thebman wrote: »
    And so far the bank that was bailed out was done so because the people with loans from that bank, donated money to the main government political party, FF.
    QUOTE]

    Does that make any sense?

    If you owed loads of money to a bank would you not be delighted if it went bust and couldn't enforce the loan?

    Why would keeping it going benefit you in any way?

    It makes a hell of a lot of sense because the debts don't die with the bank!


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    #15
    enda1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    pigeonbutler wrote: »
    If you owed loads of money to a bank would you not be delighted if it went bust and couldn't enforce the loan?

    Why would keeping it going benefit you in any way?

    Debts are an asset. They don't vanish if a bank goes bust.

    And why oh why do people think an all out stike could help?

    Do any of you realise how poorly France is thought of in the MNC field. No one wants to source a supplier in France because of the possibility of the supplier not delivering because they are on strike, the postman is on strike, the sncf are on strike etc. etc.

    Their labour market is completely stifeling because of their absurd laws and regulations and beurocracy which inhibits innovative enterprise and fast hire/ fast fire.

    All Ireland has going for it in the global game are its English language, corporation tax, highly educated population, dynamic labour market, and the low levels of beurocracy.

    If Ireland gets a name for striking when things get tough, we put ourselves in a very dangerous position for any company looking to set up business or source supplies in a certain market.

    The only good thing this country has going for it and people want to ruin that too!!


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    #16
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    enda1 wrote: »

    Their labour market is completely stifeling because of their absurd laws and regulations and beurocracy which inhibits innovative enterprise and fast hire/ fast fire.

    Yet they have one of the highest quality of life of anywhere.

    Join the dots in your own time....


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    #17
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    enda1 wrote: »
    Debts are an asset. They don't vanish if a bank goes bust.

    And why oh why do people think an all out stike could help?

    Do any of you realise how poorly France is thought of in the MNC field. No one wants to source a supplier in France because of the possibility of the supplier not delivering because they are on strike, the postman is on strike, the sncf are on strike etc. etc.

    Their labour market is completely stifeling because of their absurd laws and regulations and beurocracy which inhibits innovative enterprise and fast hire/ fast fire.

    All Ireland has going for it in the global game are its English language, corporation tax, highly educated population, dynamic labour market, and the low levels of beurocracy.

    If Ireland gets a name for striking when things get tough, we put ourselves in a very dangerous position for any company looking to set up business or source supplies in a certain market.

    The only good thing this country has going for it and people want to ruin that too!!

    There are still lots of multinationals in France and they have a good domestic economy. If we modeled ourselves more on France then we would most likely develop closer economic ties.

    Anyway it isn't just France that is striking/rioting. There is civil unrest in a lot of countries due to the way the financial market has been let run lose and take down nations economies or come close to it in some cases.

    People aren't p*ssed for no reason and the goverments don't seem to want to address the problem properly. I don't think people will stand for absorbing the debts of the banks in their countries.


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    #18
    paulocon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭paulocon


    Probably a stupid question so please excuse my ignorance but what would be the implications on any of these banks going to the wall? I understand that anyone who has a loan out would not see that debt die with the bank but people with cash invested would probably see none of it after creditors took their piece of the pie?

    Just I've heard some people make a comment such as 'they should have let the banks go'.

    On a similar note, in the case of Anglo - will the government eventually 'sell' the bank in the future?


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    #19
    NewDubliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭NewDubliner


    pigeonbutler wrote: »
    If you owed loads of money to a bank would you not be delighted if it went bust and couldn't enforce the loan?
    That's not how it works.

    A loan shark moves in and takes control of the bank's business and calls in all the loans even if you're up to date on your payments. You're forced to sell your security (house, shares, whatever) at the bottom of the market (perhaps to the shark). The depositors, meanwhile, wait until the shark decides to give them their money.

    Be careful what you wish for.


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    #20
    RandomAccess
    Registered Users Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭RandomAccess


    Caoimhín wrote: »
    Feck all chance. The Irish are too fat and drunk, busy watching British soaps and football to take to the streets.

    The only time there is any protest is when vested interests and the vocal minority (see crazy people) take to the streets. The majority are too dumb and pacified with football and celebrities to do anything.

    You forgot about the pensioners!
    They're our last hope.


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    #21
    LoveDucati2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 379 ✭✭LoveDucati2


    Caoimhín wrote: »
    Feck all chance. The Irish are too fat and drunk, busy watching British soaps and football to take to the streets.

    The only time there is any protest is when vested interests and the vocal minority (see crazy people) take to the streets. The majority are too dumb and pacified with football and celebrities to do anything.

    Brilliant:D

    Sums the Irish up

    The only good outcome of this Recession is that the Mass going, FF, FG, ITV / TV3 viewing public now realise that the government is a bunch of incompetent f*ckwits.


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    #22
    Heinrich
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭Heinrich


    Dyflin wrote: »
    Strike over what? What would it achieve?

    Ask the French!
    • Liberté
    • Egalité
    • Fraternité

    Would do for a start.:cool:


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    #23
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    When the French goverment tries to force somthing on the French people that they do not like they tell the french goverment to bend over and ram it up their a**e.

    When the Irish goverment with the help of their cronies in the media decide what we should put with they tell us to bend over and The Irish people squeal "ram like you have never rammed before."


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    #24
    Heinrich
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭Heinrich


    blinding wrote: »
    When the French goverment tries to force somthing on the French people that they do not like they tell the french goverment to bend over and ram it up their a**e.

    When the Irish goverment with the help of their cronies in the media decide what we should put with they tell us to bend over and The Irish people squeal "ram like you have never rammed before."

    The French had a revolution! Since that great event they elect politicians to run THEIR REPUBLIC. We do not do likewise. Bertie and Co. would have been strung up long ago.


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    #25
    LoveDucati2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 379 ✭✭LoveDucati2


    Heinrich wrote: »
    The French had a revolution! Since that great event they elect politicians to run THEIR REPUBLIC. We do not do likewise. Bertie and Co. would have been strung up long ago.

    Its a pity he wasn't.

    How much did he actually get in donations altogether


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    #26
    bmaxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    I don't see the point of a strike in a situation like this, the only ones to suffer will be yourself and your employer, who may already be in difficulty. I was on the tax marches of the 1980's and I'm still waiting to see the benefits.
    Protest outside Dail Eireann by all means but your real protest should be at the polling station, too many people whinge and cry at their situation but are too lazy to get up and do something about it, instead always leaving it to someone else. I am involved in my local residents association and we have a problem with the Managing Agent. At a recent AGM, when something could have been done, SEVENTEEN people out of over 200 households bothered to turn up. This is typical of the apathy abroad in the country.
    I agree, incidentally, with earlier posters, IMO those who gained most from the protests of the 80's were the publicans and the bookies.


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    #27
    Phototoxin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭Phototoxin


    The French had a revolution! Since that great event they elect politicians to run THEIR REPUBLIC. We do not do likewise. Bertie and Co. would have been strung up long ago.

    if we didn't have political nepotism, an elected 2nd house, elected councilors and more transparancy rather than our rediculously closed systems we have now AND if people voted intelligently rather than be clouded by historical steriotypes;

    'ah begorrah we cant vote fina gael 'coz dere deh blue shirts, we'll all be nazis'

    'ah be jayzus we cant vote sinn fein because they are the ira'

    'we cannot vote X because of Y they did Y years ago'

    'we cant vote anyone other than FF because no one else has the experience to run the country'

    Its a vicious spiral of doom...


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    #28
    bonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    When people learn to protest with their vote, then something might be done.

    Until then, its going to remain business as usual.


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    #29
    Jumpy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,606 ✭✭✭Jumpy


    bonkey wrote: »
    When people learn to protest with their vote, then something might be done.

    Until then, its going to remain business as usual.

    Given your choice in Ireland, it isnt going to change.


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    #30
    Cow Moolester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 256 ✭✭Cow Moolester


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    Yet they have one of the highest quality of life of anywhere.

    Join the dots in your own time....

    In the Quality of Life index, Ireland ranks no.1

    France ranks 25th

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-of-life_index

    Join the dots in your own time....


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    #31
    bonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    Jumpy wrote: »
    Given your choice in Ireland, it isnt going to change.

    That's strange.

    Here in Switzerland, there was a significant shift from the previously-mainstream parties to previously-midsized parties. It also represented a shift from "centerist" parties to the "right".

    The result has been, in many ways, significant. All the parties which lost out suddenly started looking at what they were doing wrong...why the voters became disenfranchised with them enough to go for what was previously considered to be a far less palatable option.

    The message sent was "we want change". The result was that all parties started paying more attention to what it is the voters actually want.

    Now, I accept that Switzerland is somewhat unusual, not least because the referendum system here ensures that no massive change can result from such a shift without the public's additional consent. The point I'm making, however, is that while the message sent to the politicians is "regardless of what you do, we'll vote for you anyway because there's no beter choice", then you get business as usual. send a "we demand change", even if its a choice that won't really chance much...then I believe you'll see change.

    In France, you don't have a situation where one party has ruled the roost for decades. There, protest is a sign that the public demand change. The government know it, and know that come voting day it won't be a case of "well, we made our point and it didn't work, so lets vote for them anyway"....so they're inclined to listen.

    Of course, you can believe that this will never work in Ireland. You can buy into "business as usual". If you do, then seriously....don't expect anything to change, particularly not from some demonstrations.

    But if what you're really saying is that there's no better choices in Ireland, so even demanding change will do nothing...then there's no point in demonstrating either. You've got the best you can get.


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