Is the dole too generous? - Page 3 - boards.ie
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23-01-2009, 09:31   #31
professore
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Originally Posted by Serenity Now! View Post
Why not review the other parts of the Social Welfare benefit system instead?
For instance, why does a double-earning couple in the 41% (+1% levy of course) tax bracket receive child benefit per child? Why should people already earning well qualify, without even a means test, for a benefit when they already have money to raise those children?
Politically unpopular - btw I reckon it would cost more to adminster the means test. And I have 3 kids. Also the hoo-ha about the pensioners getting medical cards up to 700 pw
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23-01-2009, 09:33   #32
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This makes no sense as the only ones who suffer are the kids themsleves. Why punish children for the actions of their parents
Not trying to punish the kids at all, it is trying to make the parents more responsibile for their actions. If parents want to have 3 or more kids then those parents should be made finance those childrens future through either better paying jobs (scarce I know) rather than relying on the tax payers money.

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Originally Posted by Serenity Now! View Post
Why not review the other parts of the Social Welfare benefit system instead?
For instance, why does a double-earning couple in the 41% (+1% levy of course) tax bracket receive child benefit per child? Why should people already earning well qualify, without even a means test, for a benefit when they already have money to raise those children?
That is very true but the problem now is parents see and use childrens allowance as an income so during the boom years they got mortgages, loans etc with the expectation the childrens allowance will help with bills, food etc.
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23-01-2009, 09:36   #33
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Try paying a mortgage while on the dole. I was out of work and went on to a community employment scheme. I almost lost my house in the process.
I applied for a lot of jobs while on the dole and out of about 50 applications I got 3 returned answers.
In fairness you should have taken out insurance with your mortgage which would have paid your mortgage whilst unemployed. Besides irish people have a fixation with purchasing houses when there is nothing wrong with renting and then you would have gotten rent allowance.

A person can live on 100pw along with rent allowance. It is meant to be a temporary measure to tie you over whilst you search for a job it is not meant to replace your income.
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23-01-2009, 09:38   #34
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hobochris have you searched for a job recently? doubt you have
No, But despite the current climate their still are jobs out there, just not the most desired jobs. I know this becuase people I know have recently gotten such jobs.

My point above is more so that the dole should be at a level were someone will take the hand of the employer offering a job.Pride is a terrible thing. Also I agree that wasters should be cut off from the dole(no free rides here), it should be for honest people only, not wasters and dole scammers. You should get the dole for so long and after that if you still haven't bothered to find a job or enter training its food stamps.
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23-01-2009, 09:43   #35
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Originally Posted by Serenity Now! View Post
Why not review the other parts of the Social Welfare benefit system instead?
For instance, why does a double-earning couple in the 41% (+1% levy of course) tax bracket receive child benefit per child? Why should people already earning well qualify, without even a means test, for a benefit when they already have money to raise those children?
Why should a single person, living at home with their parents, not pay extra taxes to a family of 5 with a large mortgage and huge shopping bill creating jobs for the economy every week ? The former only has 1 person to support whereas the latter supports 5 while they pay pretty much the same taxes. The childrens allowance and a pathetic stay at home carer allowance that amounts to a few hundred a year are the only differences.
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23-01-2009, 09:50   #36
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Politically unpopular - btw I reckon it would cost more to adminster the means test. And I have 3 kids. Also the hoo-ha about the pensioners getting medical cards up to 700 pw
Politically unpopular? I don't doubt that. Ironic though that people who earn decent salaries AND receive this welfare handout just for having childrren will cry foul on govt wastage in other areas.

Why should a healthy earning couple receive money for nothing, especially in this current economic climate?
That child allowance to earning couples over a certain level should have been scrapped long ago.

Then again, this is the country where people want everything for nothing.
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23-01-2009, 10:00   #37
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Originally Posted by hobochris View Post
No, But despite the current climate their still are jobs out there, just not the most desired jobs. I know this becuase people I know have recently gotten such jobs.

My point above is more so that the dole should be at a level were someone will take the hand of the employer offering a job.Pride is a terrible thing. Also I agree that wasters should be cut off from the dole(no free rides here), it should be for honest people only, not wasters and dole scammers. You should get the dole for so long and after that if you still haven't bothered to find a job or enter training its food stamps.
In some countries you have to apply for jobs and go for job interviews several times a week then show a proof (like signed schedule) before you can collect your dole. Often there are couple of interviews a day so job seeking turns into real job SW office will also search for a job for you and you can not refuse to go for job interviews they schedule for you. They will also ask recruiters for some feedback about your interviews (just to make sure that you are really trying to get a job). If you fail to attend particular number of interviews or they can prove that you are doing your best to not get a job you will loose your dole. The only problem with this system is HUGE bureaucracy and as result it causes increased expenses and possibility of corruption. My second thought is that maybe FAS and SW can join their forces and introduce similar system.
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23-01-2009, 10:00   #38
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Originally Posted by Serenity Now! View Post
Politically unpopular? I don't doubt that. Ironic though that people who earn decent salaries AND receive this welfare handout just for having childrren will cry foul on govt wastage in other areas.

Why should a healthy earning couple receive money for nothing, especially in this current economic climate?
That child allowance to earning couples over a certain level should have been scrapped long ago.

Then again, this is the country where people want everything for nothing.
+ 1

No truer words said
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23-01-2009, 10:03   #39
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Why should a single person, living at home with their parents, not pay extra taxes to a family of 5 with a large mortgage and huge shopping bill creating jobs for the economy every week ? The former only has 1 person to support whereas the latter supports 5 while they pay pretty much the same taxes. The childrens allowance and a pathetic stay at home carer allowance that amounts to a few hundred a year are the only differences.
Example:
Married professional Couple.
He earns €45,000 gross pa.
She earns €40,000 gross pa.

Two kids (5 and 7yrs old). One of them in private schooling.
4-Bed House.
Two cars (08 and 06 reg).
Two vacation trips pa. One abroad. One in Ireland.

You think they should receive a welfare payment every month?
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23-01-2009, 10:08   #40
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Originally Posted by Serenity Now! View Post
You think they should receive a welfare payment every month?
They would receive Jobseekers benefit since you say they are working now. Job seekers allowance (dole) is means tested.

I think you forget that they pay tax too.
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23-01-2009, 10:15   #41
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They would receive Jobseekers benefit since you say they are working now. Job seekers allowance (dole) is means tested.

I think you forget that they pay tax too.
I was referring to child allowance being paid to a couple who are already of a standard of wealth well above the comfort zone.
And you say they qualify for a 'job seeker allowance' too???
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23-01-2009, 10:19   #42
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Originally Posted by Serenity Now! View Post
I was referring to child allowance being paid to a couple who are already of a standard of wealth well above the comfort zone.
And you say they qualify for a 'job seeker allowance' too???
If they become unemployed they would be entitled to job seekers allowance since they would be claiming from their prsi contributions.

I get the impression that you think this comfortable couple are just keeping all their money to themselves. Do you forget that they pay a nice tax contribution too and the amount they get in child allowance wouldn't be near what they pay in tax? Overall they are paying a positive amount to this country.

I would be more inclined to reward non-wasters for having children than lazy f'uckers who threat their children as income.
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23-01-2009, 10:31   #43
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Yep they should get just enough to survive on beans and toast and noodles and buckfast so they have an incentive to find a job


I survived on above during college and it gave me incentive to study harder and work harder at part time job
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23-01-2009, 10:59   #44
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If they become unemployed they would be entitled to job seekers allowance since they would be claiming from their prsi contributions.

I get the impression that you think this comfortable couple are just keeping all their money to themselves. Do you forget that they pay a nice tax contribution too and the amount they get in child allowance wouldn't be near what they pay in tax? Overall they are paying a positive amount to this country.

I would be more inclined to reward non-wasters for having children than lazy f'uckers who threat their children as income.
This is just brilliant lol
They earn plenty. They are comfortable. All this after paying their tax contribution to the country's infrastructure. They are fine. They are actually wealthy.

This is wastage of money by giving welfare payments to people who do not need it.
You are trying to justify a welfare payment (yes, thats what it is at the end of the day) for having children to people who CAN ALREADY AFFORD TO HAVE CHILDREN.
And why? Because they pay taxes ??? A tax isn't a christmas savings club ffs.

Classic...
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23-01-2009, 11:21   #45
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I think there should be a rolling scale to solve this problem

For example...

If someone is made redundant then by all means the should receive enough dole too tie them over while working towards getting a new job. Maybe give a good incentive like 3 months tax free pay if you make a good effort and get yourself a job....

Proper proof should be provided on this course.

However if your a long term person on the job with no real intention of going for any job then the dole for these should be reduced too 100 euro or less.

If they want more then that they they can apply too do community work, as long as they contribute too society in some way.
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