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The house that boards built!

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  • 14-01-2009 10:22am
    #1
    Quazzie
    Registered Users Posts: 28,815 ✭✭✭✭


    The House that Quazzie2002/Boards built!

    I got a PM from Muffler a couple of weeks ago and it really got me thinking. He said “We might consider this as being our first "boards build"”. It was in relation to an email I sent to him regarding seeking tenders on boards (the result of which will be evident soon in my sig). Since he said it I’ve been thinking about posting this thread. It’s a thread I plan on updating regularly as I progress through the build and as I will be self building and joint managing with my Dad I thought it might be a good reference for other self builders out there to see some of the problem I encountered and also to give them a time frame reference of a self build.

    I’ve gotten the planning permission and have lined up the initial contractors, but I have no final idea of what spec I am going to use as of the minute. I am baffled as to what methods to use in each part of the house. The only thing I am set on is cavity wall construction, because my Dad is laying the blocks for me so it’s the cheapest part for me. Whenever I’ve needed advice or inspiration in the past I have turned to boards, and it hasn’t let me down yet. I received planning permission solely on the advice of one of the regular posters here that looked at my plans and made some vital suggestions for changes to make.

    The specs that I have decided on so far can be viewed on the PDF file. Comment freely on these if you think there are any errors about to be made or any improvements you think I could do.

    Just to note All specifics I get regarding structure will be individual to my build, and should not be copied. I will be referencing what professions I use to provide each part of the specification.

    I will be keeping this updated regularly, at least once a week, and hopefully we can all learn a bit from it.


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    #2
    RKQ
    Registered Users Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭RKQ


    Good luck, its a brave decision to open up your whole experience "live" to the general public. I will read your posts with interest.

    I had a glance at your Section and note you are installing 60mm xtratherm cavity insulation and 50mm bead! Then you are drylining inner leaf.
    Not sure that a good idea IMO, also not sure of u-value of 50mm bead?

    Might be worth finding out or maybe smeone here will know.


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    #3
    Quazzie
    Registered Users Posts: 28,815 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    RKQ wrote: »
    Good luck, its a brave decision to open up your whole experience "live" to the general public. I will read your posts with interest.

    I had a glance at your Section and note you are installing 60mm xtratherm cavity insulation and 50mm bead! Then you are drylining inner leaf.
    Not sure that a good idea IMO, also not sure of u-value of 50mm bead?

    Might be worth finding out or maybe someone here will know.
    That actually is something I was looking at, at the moment. trying to weigh up the pros and cons of a few options.
    1. 60mm xtratherm cavity insulation and 50mm bead.
    2. 60mm xtratherm cavity insulation and 50mm cavity.
    3. 100mm bead.
    All to be drylined.


    I wouldn't call it brave to post about it here, Maybe foolish. especially if Mr. Recession puts an abrupt stop to it. Its going to be a very ambitious build considering my tight budget(€60ish/sqfoot) but I am doing a lot of work myself with my Dad supplying so much tools(excavation and groundwork) and labour(blocklaying/roofing/plastering./electrical installation) for free.

    Fingers crossed


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    #4
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,004 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    :D

    you might regret opening this up to all of us!!!

    firstly, i see your design changed quite dramatically from that first proposed, was this as a result of the planners input or the architects?? I preferred the first elevation.

    Secondly i would agree with RKQ on the insulation spec. You are actually incorporating three layers of insulation... this would be uneconomical, unwarranted and probably unsafe IMHO.
    I think you need to have a serious condensation risk analysis done on that construction. My fear would be that the internal 60mm composite board would cause too high a temp differential between the inner room climate and the inner leaf, and would cause interstitial condensation... and that is a very bad place to have interstitial condensation forming!!

    also, if you are going to 'dryline' internally, you can increase your perimeter strip insulation from 25 to the maximum point where it matches the CPB.

    your upstairs en-suite is huge!! you might be sacrificing some valuable first floor storage.....


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    #5
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,822 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    I think you have the right idea here lads. Quazzie2002 will welcome all opinions and of course there are going to be times when we certainly wont agree on different issues but it will be healthy debate and will give the OP different options.


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    #6
    NickTellis
    Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭NickTellis


    Nice layout especially upstairs. Have you considered a sliding door into the utility room from the kitchen?


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    #7
    Slig
    Registered Users Posts: 1,550 ✭✭✭Slig


    I think it will be a great oppertunity to test out all our theories on a unsuspectinggenerously willing guinea pig:p.

    Seriously though good luck, I hope we can be more supportive & encouraging than negative or abusive:D.

    I'm throwing my 2 cent in:

    -internal plaster
    -150mm Aerated conc blockwork
    -125mm Double foil backed Polyurethane insulation board
    -25mm Air cavity
    -100mm conc blockwork
    -Nap plaster/dry dash finish

    Take the Aerated blockwork inner leaf as your structure to support wall plate etc. Some plasters have problems plastering these blocks so maybe creating a services cavity using battens and plasterboard finish could ease the hassle abit. Also having a dedicated structural leaf will allow you to build this before the outer leaf and allow you to tape all the joints and junctions in the insulation and ensure a proper cavity before the outer leaf is built.


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    #8
    Quazzie
    Registered Users Posts: 28,815 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    The decision to build:
    I started off thinking about building my own house about a year ago when I was priced out of buying the house I am currently living in. I thought it made more sense to build a house as at least in the case of a recession it’d still be worth what I put in at the end of it, especially since my wife’s father generously offered us a site. So for us it was as easy a decision as that.

    What to build?
    Well I decided early on that I was going to design the building myself around some key elements that I have always felt were vital to my own specific build. I am a CAD technician, a former blocklayers labourer and I have previously studied for two years at architectural technology so I know the basics of a built structure. After reading some of the posts here on Boards I soon realized it really was only the basics I knew. I’m from Offaly and my house is being built in Offaly so I had a look at the Offaly.ie website and found a document that basically walked ya through what exactly the planners wanted in terms of design from any new proposed housing. I don’t know if these are available in all counties but the Offaly one I used really was an eye-opener, so I followed it religiously. I recommend as a read to everyone.

    With my new found inspiration and a rough figure for size in my head I started with the designing. My second major factor in designing was to keep the building of it as cheap as possible so I decided to go with a storey and a half (because there are not two storey houses beside me, and plus it might look out of place on an open space) and to keep it as rectangular as possible(simple build). I came up with a design that upon reflection now cost more than I could afford(glazing) so I started to cut a few things off. I then looked at how to build it, including Fire Safety regulations so I had to reposition some windows, and add in the dormer windows to the front. I initially went for cleaner lines to the front and rear but had problems fitting a fire escape window to each room, so this was the compromise I made. I initially also planned for stone to the front of the house but also decided against this based on economics and the fact that I didn’t consider this vital. If needs be later on in the build I might apply for retention and add in stonework around the front door.

    With my design I got chatting to one of the posters here and showed him and he looked at it and came back with some really useful ideas and suggestions, most of which I went with and decided was for the best. So that basically finalized my drawing and was ready for submittal. I’ve never done a planning application before so I employed a local planning agent who took my drawings, stuck a border on them, and added the site map. The site map was something I would’ve never been able to do because of the surveying and all that is required for it. Hell I didn’t even know about sight lines before this.

    Application time:
    I applied for the percolation test also through the agent, and after the summer we just had we failed. It was suggested by our local councilor, who we had in correspondence with the planning offices, that we should raise the level of the site by 1M. My wife’s father has recently built some houses so we very luckily got some filling for free and we raised the whole site and applied again. It is worth noting that the filling was coming from another area owned by my OH’s father and thus negated the need for planning permission. Anyone arranging someone to dump loads of topsoil or filling onto their own site might require planning permission and should check it out based on their own criteria. The second application passed with flying colours apparently so we were ready to go with the full application. We applied and waited, and waited, and waited some more and then got a request for FI. Silly stuff that really shouldn’t have happened.
    1. The secondary school my wife went to put down the wrong date for her leaving school and this had to be rectified (basically a typo)
    2. and we had to submit all other lands that her father owned in the area (we probably should’ve done this first time round.

    We done that and it was simple enough and it passed.

    I never met the planning officer as I was sticking so strictly to their planning guidelines but I recommend anyone that is unsure to do so.

    What now?
    Well now is where it gets interesting and where all the boardsies come into it. I am starting to build. I’m laying out the site this weekend and from then on I will be updating and asking a million and one different questions. I think it’ll be an interesting read, and I’m sure there will be some disagreements along the way but also limitless scope for debate. I know I will be learning an incredible amount from it but hopefully even the regular, and more experienced posters will learn a thing or two.

    Thanks for reading and thanks to the mods for letting me do this.


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    #9
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,004 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    just one other point at this stage quazzie..

    if you are not using roof trusses, you should absolutely use RSJs to support the roof structure. especially at the span over bed 3. IMHO theres no substitute in a cut roof to having two rsjs supporting the rafters just above the ceiling joist line.

    I have seen some carpenters try to build without but most of the time this has lead to disaster and seriou remedial work. In one case the carpenter just erected the rafters and ceiling joists, lathed and felted, then laids the slates which actually caused the roof structure to push the rear wall out and cracked the blockwork at the two rear corners!!!!


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    #10
    No6
    Registered Users Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭No6


    Design and Build by Boards Comittee!!!! God help you you are probably mad in the head, have you not noticed we're all mad opinionated nutters here!!! Seriously though best of luck & have fun!!!:D Have you appointed an Architect / Engineer / Technologist to supervise the build and sign off on it and you will also need a BER cert done. While its fine asking all of us loads of questions you will still need this done.


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    #11
    Quazzie
    Registered Users Posts: 28,815 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    I know syd. I really don't know what I'm doing with the roof. I think I'm just going to end up getting either a structural engineer or a competent arch tech to design the roof for me. According to Hombond it needs to supports at two points along the span by RSJ's so to make sure I have adequate loading capabilities I am going to go professional for that one.

    I also don't know what way to go in regards the first floor because I was hoping to put UFH upstairs so that might also need to be structurally designed t carry the load of screeding.

    Interesting idea there Nick and one I will definitely look into as I am all for utilizing as much kitchen/utility room space as possible.

    Interesting spec proposal there slig and one, I have never thought of but I will consider for sure.


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    #12
    Quazzie
    Registered Users Posts: 28,815 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    I have NO.6. The same guy I used as the planning agent, but I will my own biggest critic and will be personally inspecting every square inch of the building at all stages. I trust the guy who is signing it off an inspecting it, but since its my own house, I'll be ultra sensitive in ensuring everything is up to spec.


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    #13
    Jimbo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭Jimbo


    This is a great idea. Hopefully we can all benefit from it.

    Just one point:

    The stairs is effectively open to the kitchen on the ground floor.
    I know its not in the same room, but there is no door seperating them.
    Technical guidance Doc B states:
    An open-plan arrangement, where the stairway rises
    directly from the ground storey accommodation is
    less preferable than the arrangement at (ii) above
    and is only acceptable where:
    - the stairway discharges to within 4.5 m of a door
    at the ground storey leading directly to the open
    air;
    - the stairway does not discharge into a kitchen
    and either:
    • any ground storey kitchen is enclosed in
    storey height construction which need not
    be fire resisting     or;
    • where the stairway passes within 3 m of the
    kitchen, the stairway should be enclosed in
    storey-height construction which need not
    be fire-resisting;


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    #14
    Technophobe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭Technophobe


    Good luck with this...

    I am just starting myself with a local builder doing PM for me and I will follow your thread with huge interest and hopefully as you say, we can all learn from it. I know I will as I am starting at a point of zero knowledge and have already been leaning on Boards members.....


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    #15
    Quazzie
    Registered Users Posts: 28,815 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    jimbo78 wrote: »
    Just one point:

    The stairs is effectively open to the kitchen on the ground floor.
    I know its not in the same room, but there is no door seperating them.
    Technical guidance Doc B states:

    For some reason, might be because I have a bit of a flu and am not totally with it today but I've read that three times and still can't fully understand it. Is my stairs not ok because its more than 3M from the kitchen? Or that is how I originally perceived it.

    I can put up a door and will if neccesary in the hallway leading into the kitchen but I was really hoping to not have to do this.


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    #16
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,004 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Quazzie2002 wrote: »
    For some reason, might be because I have a bit of a flu and am not totally with it today but I've read that three times and still can't fully understand it. Is my stairs not ok because its more than 3M from the kitchen? Or that is how I originally perceived it.

    I can put up a door and will if neccesary in the hallway leading into the kitchen but I was really hoping to not have to do this.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055297772&highlight=stairwell

    have a read of this thread...


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    #17
    Quazzie
    Registered Users Posts: 28,815 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    Ok after reading that I think my stairs doesn't comply.
    is only acceptable where the stairway discharges to within 4.5 m of a door at the ground storey leading directly to the open air

    I think this alone means it doesn't apply. Am I correct in saying that. I'll put up a door at the start of the hall I think.


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    #18
    topcatcbr
    Registered Users Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭topcatcbr


    This post is a great idea. Good luck with your build.


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    #19
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,822 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Technophobe wrote: »
    Good luck with this...

    I am just starting myself with a local builder doing PM for me and I will follow your thread with huge interest and hopefully as you say, we can all learn from it. I know I will as I am starting at a point of zero knowledge and have already been leaning on Boards members.....
    You could do worse than buy yourself a copy of the HomeBond house building manual.


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    #20
    Quazzie
    Registered Users Posts: 28,815 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    muffler wrote: »
    You could do worse than buy yourself a copy of the HomeBond house building manual.
    A homebond manual is an abolsute must for any body that is even considering building no matter what level they intend to get involved. Its been my bible for the last year


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    #21
    Technophobe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭Technophobe


    muffler wrote: »
    You could do worse than buy yourself a copy of the HomeBond house building manual.

    Just bought it yesterday.....now I need to get someone to read it for me!!!!;)


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    #22
    MacTheKnife1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 105 ✭✭MacTheKnife1


    Quazzie thanks for this.

    Already I have learnt so much. My own house has a similar stairwell design and now will have to be changed due to the issues raised on this tread ;-((

    One more point - a property tax is in the air - it will most likely be based on house size. Be careful - looks like you have 3000 sq ft of space there.


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    #23
    Slig
    Registered Users Posts: 1,550 ✭✭✭Slig


    Do you have a proposed detail for the hidden downpipes?

    By the way I like the design. Its simple but inoffensive (I just thought somebody had to say something positive for once:D)


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    #24
    Quazzie
    Registered Users Posts: 28,815 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    Not as of yet and to be honest I have pulled my hair out over this one. I know its been done before but how I aint got a clue. Any suggestions are largely welcome.

    Thanks for the positive feedback. It is a simple design but with it been a country house I said I'd try keep the style traditional. I'm hoping to decorate the interior a bit more modern to give a contrast between inside and out.

    Right now I'm drawing like a fecker trying to come up with small details for all the little complications that are in it.


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    #25
    smashey
    Registered Users Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    You're off to a good start here quazzie. I can see this thread getting huge very quickly. :D

    Good luck and thanks for doing this.


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    #26
    Quazzie
    Registered Users Posts: 28,815 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    smashey wrote: »
    Good luck and thanks for doing this.

    Not at all. This is the house I intend on spending most of the rest of my life in and I want to make sure it is done right, and after reading boards for so long, and with the advice I have already gotten, I can think of no better way to build a house.


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    #27
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,004 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    ... and invite all the boards members over for the house warming!!! :D


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    #28
    Quazzie
    Registered Users Posts: 28,815 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    I've actually thought of this and I think I might. It could be an unoffical boards C&P beers. I know I for one wouldn't mind putting a few faces to the names


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    #29
    smashey
    Registered Users Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    Thread stickied. :)


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    #30
    Technophobe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭Technophobe


    Quazzie2002 wrote: »
    Not as of yet and to be honest I have pulled my hair out over this one. I know its been done before but how I aint got a clue. Any suggestions are largely welcome.

    Quazzie,

    I have a mate who did this on his house so will see if I can find out anything for ya...

    Not to put a negative spin on it but I know he had them built into the blockwork somehow and then discovered that there was a leak in there somewhere:mad: he wasn't a happy man.....
    Anyways, he has it all sorted now so I will see what he says....


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    #31
    Slig
    Registered Users Posts: 1,550 ✭✭✭Slig


    Technophobe wrote: »
    Quazzie2002 wrote: »
    Not as of yet and to be honest I have pulled my hair out over this one. I know its been done before but how I aint got a clue. Any suggestions are largely welcome.

    Quazzie,

    I have a mate who did this on his house so will see if I can find out anything for ya...

    Not to put a negative spin on it but I know he had them built into the blockwork somehow and then discovered that there was a leak in there somewhere:mad: he wasn't a happy man.....
    Anyways, he has it all sorted now so I will see what he says....

    Thats my major fear with them to be honest. Also means that there is a cold radiating pipe working its way through your cavity cutting down the value of the insulation that is probably already reduced to fit the pipe in there in the first place


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