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Is there STILL an oil cartel in Galway?

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  • 04-01-2009 12:39am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭


    The following is a long and rather rambling post. Please bear with me, or, at least, read the last two paragraphs of my post.

    As many of you know, most of Galway's oil distributors were suspected of being part of an oil cartel about two years ago, following an investigation by the competition authority. It was said during the court proceedings at the time that the cartel resulted in losses to people like you and I of about 10%. Having done a few sums in the last day or so, I believe that figure to be about right.

    I wonder whether operations by Galway oil companies are not entirely squeaky clean today either, despite many distributors being fined by the courts and found guilty of being part of a cartel. Just wondering, like.

    Among the companies found guilty of membership of the "Connacht Oil Promotion Federation", i.e. the cartel were:

    Corrib Oil
    All Star Oil
    Hi-Way Oil
    Mór Oil
    Cloonan Oil
    Muldoon Oil
    Gort Oil
    Flanagan Oil
    Matt Geraghty Oil

    There may well be more. But that's all I've been able to get from the Galway Independent archives on Google. If someone knows anything more, please post or pm me.

    For years, I have rang around all the oil companies in Galway about once a year trying to order the cheapest oil. About three years ago, I remember noticing that while prices for 500 litres of Kerosene varied from operator to operator, those for 1000 litres of Kerosene were exactly the same to the cent! Shortly after I noticed that, allegations of a cartel in Galway hit the media (I had nothing to do with that, or with the investigations of the competition authority, just in case anyone thinks I might).

    After the allegations hit the media and the courtcases commenced, I noticed, when doing my usual annual ring-arounds for the cheapest price, that the situation hadn't really changed, bar one: the commencement of The Inquisitions.

    By Inquisitions, I mean that my simple query for the price of 1000 litres of kerosene was frequently met by a barrage of questions before I could get a straight answer, i.e.:

    What's your name?
    What's your phone number?
    What's your address?
    Do you usually order your oil from us?



    "Neanderthal", as I see him referred to on a recent thread on the matter, was the worst offender in this regard, and, on one occasion, when I was repeatedly grilled, then kept on hold, then thrice hung up on abruptly without getting a straight answer to a straight question (i.e. "What is the price of 1000 litres of kerosene?") I wondered whether the poor chap was afraid of my being a journalist (No!), someone working for or reporting to the competition authority (No!), or an enforcer/informer for the cartel (No!). My mistake had been to state from the outset that I was ringing around for prices.

    (If I didn't state this from the outset, the tendency was for the oil distributors to assume (or pretend to assume) my query re prices was an order for oil and extract information before answering my query.)

    Note that "Neanderthal" is working for one of the companies found guilty of being in the cartel. In his defence, he is probably just an ordinary paid worker doing what he is told.

    Still, I felt something was definitely up. And I am wondering if something is still amiss.

    Now yesterday, Mr and Mrs Doubleglaze figured our supplies must be getting low and decided I should take 15 minutes to ring around ALL the suppliers in Galway county and order 1000l of the cheapest kerosene. And here were my findings:

    I discovered, when I rang the following distributors - Corrib Oil, Geraghty Oil, Cloonan Oil (all found guilty of cartel involvement) also Kelly Oil, Brady Oil and God knows who else- are all members of The Corrib Group. When I rang any one of those operators' phone numbers, I got through to the same person! This group was joint most expensive, at 495 euros, although, by the third of fourth time I got through to the same operator (although I was ringing a different oil distributor each time) they had dropped the price to 470 for one or two of their distributors.

    Joint most expensive (again, 495 euros) was the Hi-Way Oil-Gort Oil group, also found guilty of involvement in the cartel. This latter group also includes Sweeney Oil, O Grady Oil, Mitchell Oil, East Galway Oil, Rabbitt/Sweeney Oil. Same thing with these operators, they all have their individual phone numbers, but you are put through to the same person.

    The above two groups are about 10% more expensive than the cheapest oil operator in Galway, although there appears to be some minor variations in price allowed within the group...

    Second most expensive were the Connell/Texoil/Connolly group (note that Connell oil were NOT found to be involved in the cartel). I rang them yesterday afternoon (Friday the 2nd) and their office was closed. An answering machine wanted me to leave my name and number so that they could get back to me. So, I went to the texoil.ie website, where they quoted 490 euro.

    Third most expensive was Suttons Oil at 470, and also Mór Oil at 470 (they don't share the same telephone operator) although Suttons Oil say their price is dropping to 450 on Monday next. (Mór Oil were found guilty.)

    Fourth most expensive was the Fenmac Oil/Mc Mahon Oil/Emo Oil group at 460 euro. Also at 460 were Garbally Oil, who are not part of any other group that I am aware of.

    Fifth most expensive was Top Oil/Galway Oil/Oil Flow, Carraroe, at 454 euro.

    Cheapest of all was Excelsior Oil, at 450 euro.

    While I was ringing around the different numbers I kept getting through to two telephone operators, so the Corrib group became aware I was ringing around. They then offered to match the cheapest quote I got.

    I have decided against that, however. Instead, I will support the cheapest operator, an operator who has not been found to be involved in any oil cartel, as far as I can see. So, I'm placing my order with Excelsior on Monday.

    I really don't see the point of many of these apparantly different distributors having different phone numbers if the customer just keeps getting through to the same two or three phone operators. I can't help wondering, given the history of the cartel in Galway, if this is deliberately misleading, if it is a camouflage of sorts. Perhaps I am wrong to be suspicious. If so, I'm perfectly happy to be put straight. However, I'm posting this in a public forum to get the views of other people and try and establish the true number of oil distribution groups in Galway. Is it one? Is it five? Who is linked to whom? What is the extent of current price-fixing? How much real competition really exists in the oil distribution industry in Galway? Is there still a cartel operating in Galway, but one better able to hide its tracks? If there is no longer a cartel, then it's a matter of forgive and forget the past, but if there still is a cartel, I want to know about it and see what the public can do to put an end to it.

    Bottom line: I believe it is in our interest to support the cheap/independent oil distributors in Galway, those who provide the best service to the Galway customer, and we are right to be wary of those companies who were found to be members of the cartel. We must be careful not to let the big expensive group operators put the small cheap independent ones out of business. The cheapest yesterday, by 10%, was Excelsior.


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Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    Excellent thought-process going on there doublegaze. You showed me some information that iI was not aware of.
    The thing is though, those found to be in the cartel were only fined a pittance and managed to consolidate market share during the time. So there really was no deterrent for them! I do remember the media stating that the fella from Connell Oil gave evidence about approaches from the cartel.

    Maybe consider making a complaint to the competition authority again?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,983 ✭✭✭leninbenjamin


    snubbleste wrote: »
    Maybe consider making a complaint to the competition authority again?

    what good will that do really? last time this happened the courts admitted that residents of Galway had been overcharged by millions, yet the only convictions resulted in fines of only a few thousand.

    Better to go to the TDs methinks and put pressure on them to change the penalties for this kind of thing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,149 ✭✭✭ZorbaTehZ


    There may well be more. But that's all I've been able to get from the Galway Independent archives on Google. If someone knows anything more, please post or pm me.

    Here's a link from the competition authority, it lists all 24 I think.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,184 ✭✭✭Fey!


    I've been using Excelsior for years, and have always found their prices and service excellent. The owner, John, is an absolute gent, as are his sons in Excelsior garage and CTC tyres on the Tuam Road (there are several posts on threads here from me recommending Excelsior group in the past).

    I wasn't aware that there were such vast differences in prices. It's a pity that Excelsior no longer have petrol pumps; garages in the city could do with serious comptition.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭Dave Joyce


    Used to do the same myself and usually found a huge difference between the highest and lowest price, (always found Corrib Oil the most expensive). However, found Joe Mulcair from Gort (I'm in the general Kilcolgan area so he's very handy and extremely reliable) and his prices have been very reasonable and when I ring his number I always get through to him, (the home number automatically transfers to his mobile).

    It always pays to ring around. Without wanting to go off topic, just wanted to mention that I recently priced coal bunkers and there was €70 difference between the dearest and cheapest......as usual robbing bunch of bastards!!:mad:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭Andrea B.


    Without wanting to go off topic, just wanted to mention that I recently priced coal bunkers and there was €70 difference between the dearest and cheapest......as usual robbing bunch of bastards!!

    Curious. But would you prefer if prices were same;) ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7 mallabuoy


    Hi
    Just ordered 1000l from corrib @450 (the last 10 after mentioned "hearing from a friend" that that was the going rate.
    So - Thanks for the heads up icon14.gif

    IMO - it always pays to shop around.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,549 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    Dave Joyce wrote: »
    Used to do the same myself and usually found a huge difference between the highest and lowest price, (always found Corrib Oil the most expensive).

    Last time I found Corrib cheaper than Sweeney's...
    Dave Joyce wrote: »
    .. I recently priced coal bunkers and there was €70 difference between the dearest and cheapest......as usual robbing bunch of bastards!!:mad:

    But is that not a good thing, that prices are different, if they were all the same price, it could indicate some level of price fixing..???


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭cornbb


    It wouldn't surprise me at all if price fixing was still happening. I also wouldn't be surprised if many petrol stations in Galway were doing the same thing. I once worked in a petrol station on the Dublin Rd. in Limerick, out of about 6 garages on a 4-5 mile stretch of road, the prices were almost always identical in nearly all of them and one of my colleagues swore blind he overheard the garage owner discussing prices with another owner over the phone.

    Unfortunately it seems like this is just the way business is conducted in Ireland and it doesn't look like it will cease anytime soon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭doubleglaze


    A few months ago, I said to the owner of a petrol station in Galway that it was my belief there was a cartel in the oil/petrol business in Galway. Instead of denying it, he laughed and said: "Ah sure, there isn't much profit to be made from this business".:mad:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,549 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    A few months ago, I said to the owner of a petrol station in Galway that it was my belief there was a cartel in the oil/petrol business in Galway. Instead of denying it, he laughed and said: "Ah sure, there isn't much profit to be made from this business".:mad:

    If all the station sell to customers are there wholesale rate, then most stations would be the same price...


  • Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭doubleglaze


    Mallabuoy, while I'm delighted you did so well, however, I personally wouldn't order anything from any of the groups which have, in their midst, those convicted of involvement in the cartel.

    Below are some of the Galway home-heating oil groupings which have had convictions. Although Galway oil companies all have their own individual phone numbers, each group has its own phone operator and when I rang the individual phone numbers I was usually put through to one of those group phone operators:

    The Corrib Oil Group: this includes, Corrib Oil, Brad Oil, Kelly Oil, Geraghty Oil, Midland Oil, Cloonan Oil, and perhaps others.

    The Hi-Way Oil Group: this includes Hi-Way Oil, Sweeney Oil, O Grady Oil, Mitchell Oil, East Galway Oil, Gort Oil, Rabbitt/Sweeney Oil.

    Fenmac/McMahon Oil Group: This includes Fenmac and Mc Mahon.

    Note also that Mór Oil was found guilty of cartel involvement, but has its own phone operator. So just because a company answers its own phone doesn't mean there aren't "associations"...

    We need to support the cheap, individual, honest operators, and not support the cartel. Otherwise, in a few years, the cartel will have put all the competition out of business and we will end up paying dearly for it in the longterm.

    Let's keep this thread alive if we want lower fuel prices in Galway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,208 ✭✭✭✭JohnCleary


    Thanks for the post, need to order a wallop of green diesel soon while prices are low so this is good info. While most of the time I buy my green diesel in bulk, sometimes I only need 20/30litres. Does anyone know where there are GREEN diesel pumps in Galway (city'ish) apart from Corrib Oil on the Tuam Road? The pump is filthy and so is the ground surrounding it - I don't mind the pump/nozzle being dirty as I use gloves, but my shoes get filthy meaning the car gets filthy when I sit back in


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,064 ✭✭✭minxie


    JohnCleary wrote: »
    Thanks for the post, need to order a wallop of green diesel soon while prices are low so this is good info. While most of the time I buy my green diesel in bulk, sometimes I only need 20/30litres. Does anyone know where there are GREEN diesel pumps in Galway (city'ish) apart from Corrib Oil on the Tuam Road? The pump is filthy and so is the ground surrounding it - I don't mind the pump/nozzle being dirty as I use gloves, but my shoes get filthy meaning the car gets filthy when I sit back in
    grealishs in carnmore cross


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,549 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    minxie1 wrote: »
    grealishs in carnmore cross

    New Texaco in the Docks, i think.


  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭deargas


    just to let anyone who's looking for kerosene in Galway City,

    A quick round up for 800 litres of Kerosene today
    texoil in carnmore = 355
    kelly oil = 370
    corrib oil = 370
    excelsior = 376
    sweeney oil = 380


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,184 ✭✭✭Fey!


    I've already put this on the other thread, but am sticking it here, too, in case it's of any use to anyone.

    I got about 390 litres from Excelsior (751014) last week for €200 (€0.51/litre). Didn't realise that they did incremental pricing, meaning that 1000 litres is €450 (€0.45/litre). So I have another 600 litres coming this week for €270 (€0.45/litre); not having checked things out properly has cost me €23.40!

    I've been using Excelsior for about 10 years at this stage, but never copped that I should be buying in bulk (I don't even know the capacity of my tank!). Their service is excellent, down to the drver restarting the heating for me last week (I had run out of oil, and I have a tricky boiler with 20 metres between the tank and the boiler). They work a priority syste; if you're out/nearly out, you go on the top of the list (I have gotten calls from them in the past when I had orders in asking whether or not I could hold off on my delivery so that hey could bump in someone who had run out).


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 17,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭Das Kitty


    deargas wrote: »
    just to let anyone who's looking for kerosene in Galway City,

    A quick round up for 800 litres of Kerosene today
    texoil in carnmore = 355
    kelly oil = 370
    corrib oil = 370
    excelsior = 376
    sweeney oil = 380

    Thanks I should have looked here before I posted on the other thread.

    :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,064 ✭✭✭minxie


    just rang Excelsior oil there to order some oil,
    man said he couldnt guarantee me any oil this week
    as stock is so low... now for ya :confused: rang corrib oil €270 for 500 litres


  • Registered Users Posts: 3 ChaladhMor


    minxie1 wrote: »
    just rang Excelsior oil there to order some oil,
    man said he couldnt guarantee me any oil this week
    as stock is so low... now for ya :confused: rang corrib oil €270 for 500 litres

    I've just come across this thread which is great for reference info so thanks a million. Just for interest I called Sweeney Oil yesteraday and got 500 litres for €250. They told me that prices are going to go up last night by 2-3 cents per litre.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1 island


    I've been using Corrib Oil for the past 2 years and they provide an excellent service. I have used Excelsior before but they let me down they were a day late delivering so my range quenched and I had awful trouble getting it re-lit. Corrib Oil have never let me down. Recently I priced around different companies in Galway and Corrib Oil were the cheapest Excelsior wasn't far behind them but I wouldn't go back to them again.

    I also visit many of the Corrib Oil Petrol Stations regulary. They have a new loyalty programme I have got loads of free cups of coffee from them and i collect points for everything I buy. They have also told me they will be giving loads of special offers through their loyalty programme when you buy your home heating oil from them.

    I heard about Galway oil companies getting caught by the competition authority too. I think the competition Authority needs to catch others now like Doctors, Pharmacys, Pubs ect its not just the oil industry who formed a cartel they were just the poor unfortunates to get caught!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭fergiesfolly


    Hey Island. how long you been workin' for Corrib


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,932 ✭✭✭Sniipe


    island, thats a lovely post... what else do you offer?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭cornbb


    island wrote: »
    its not just the oil industry who formed a cartel they were just the poor unfortunates to get caught!

    Yes, the poor lambs. We should have a collection for them on Shop St.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭sgthighway


    I hate Keith Finnegan but he tore strips off this Petrol Station owner in this interview <clicky>


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Corrib are behaving ( slightly) and only by their usual standards

    1000l Kero

    Corrib €460
    Mór €480
    Sweeney €465

    Went with Claddagh (€445) instead because they quoted €460 from the start and because Corrib refused to better €450 .

    Its not often that Corrib are the cheapest on round one calls .

    BTW Mór are very pleasant to talk to nowadays ....unlike the old days when they had a policy of never giving a quote and NEVER EVER ringing back like they said they would . Too expensive though .

    The competitive Texaco down the docks is a signed up member of the cartel charging same as all the rest , that lasted about 4 weeks that did :(

    I will not be buying oil till the autumn now, over and out till then .


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    island wrote: »
    ......

    :D

    Shop around folks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Ordered some oil from O'Grady Oil in Belclare before Christmas. They were always competitive and prompt. Found out when the delivery man came that they, and Hi-Way oil had been taken over by Sweeney Oil.

    According to the Sweeney Oil website:
    Sweeney Oil operates primarily in Connacht, Donegal and the Midlands and has a network of almost 20 service stations, 17 oil distribution depots, operates a fleet of 60 trucks
    and
    Sweeney Oil has an annual turnover in excess of €210 million and Esso Ireland Ltd has an annual turnover of €850 million.

    It's no wonder that there is less competition :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5 oilman


    minxie wrote: »
    grealishs in carnmore cross
    did you try claddagh oil ... they are new and aggressive and give a same day delivert service... i bought my oil off them 30 euro cheaper than corrib


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭Euro_Kraut


    island wrote: »
    I've been using Corrib Oil for the past 2 years and they provide an excellent service. I have used Excelsior before but they let me down they were a day late delivering so my range quenched and I had awful trouble getting it re-lit. Corrib Oil have never let me down. Recently I priced around different companies in Galway and Corrib Oil were the cheapest Excelsior wasn't far behind them but I wouldn't go back to them again.

    I also visit many of the Corrib Oil Petrol Stations regulary. They have a new loyalty programme I have got loads of free cups of coffee from them and i collect points for everything I buy. They have also told me they will be giving loads of special offers through their loyalty programme when you buy your home heating oil from them.

    I heard about Galway oil companies getting caught by the competition authority too. I think the competition Authority needs to catch others now like Doctors, Pharmacys, Pubs ect its not just the oil industry who formed a cartel they were just the poor unfortunates to get caught!

    This is an excellent post from an unbiased source. We should probably close the thread now as everything is ok...


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