TII Motorway Service Areas (MSA) Progress Thread

Sponge Bob · 01-06-2010 4:30pm

The one on the M4 in Enfield looks like it will be finished perhaps by next easter but at least Galwaybound at least you have a good choice where the M6 ends at the Athlone Bypass , exit N62 towards Birr and Kilmartins on the next roundabout at 250m offers 4 places to eat incl McDonalds and Subway and is only 300m from the Motorway.

24 hours for petrol and groceries.

df1985 · 01-06-2010 5:11pm

I practically consider that area at athlone a service station with everything being so close to the road.

munchkin_utd · 01-06-2010 5:30pm

df1985 wrote: »

I practically consider that area at athlone a service station with everything being so close to the road.

And are they signed as such so that people that dont know the area in the slightest know that these facilities are available?

df1985 · 01-06-2010 6:10pm

No but im just saying from my point of view.

Sponge Bob · 01-06-2010 8:28pm

df1985 wrote: »

No but im just saying from my point of view.

and mine. Everybody in Galway knows it.

flazio · 02-06-2010 11:40pm

munchkin_utd wrote: »

And are they signed as such so that people that dont know the area in the slightest know that these facilities are available?

Actually, it's Applegreen that get the services sign a bit further down the road despite having much fewer services available.

L1011 · 03-06-2010 1:18am

wellbutty wrote: »

With an overpass just beside it, I would've thought it would be cheaper to build just one service station and two new slips. But it's great to see some progress on these.

It'd be cheaper, but the NRA appear to want double-sided sites on busier sections going by their proposals. Even though single-sided could have more services on one side...

They also seem to want them to be entirely isolated from the non-motorway road network as far as I can see. The only proposed one on a junction I can remember was on a motorway-motorway junction.

etchyed · 03-06-2010 2:01am

MYOB wrote: »

They also seem to want them to be entirely isolated from the non-motorway road network as far as I can see. The only proposed one on a junction I can remember was on a motorway-motorway junction.

No problem with that as far as I can see. Standard practice to discourage MSAs from becoming destinations in and of themselves.

murphaph · 03-06-2010 8:48am

etchyed wrote: »

No problem with that as far as I can see. Standard practice to discourage MSAs from becoming destinations in and of themselves.

I think the prices they will charge will take care of that

Amtmann · 03-06-2010 10:59am

The NRA released this MSA status update in February of this year (attached).

Synopsis:

Next one to be built is the M11 service area. My reaction to this:

:mad:

Planning permission has been granted for the Cashel, Athlone and Kilcullen areas. But these won't start "until the exchequer returns improve".

As for the rest, the NRA isn't lifting a finger.

Jayuu · 03-06-2010 12:34pm

Well, infuriating as it is, its not as if we didn't know this already.

In fact I'd say at least they were clever enough to get an MSA included as part of the M11 upgrade works. That actually shows that somebody was thinking about the problem.

BluntGuy · 03-06-2010 12:45pm

As much as I'd like to congratulate the NRA on being as practical as possible in the situation they're in...

They brought this upon themselves by being too slow to make up their mind on whether we needed the bloody MSAs.

If they'd shown foresight from the beginning and actually built them along with the motorways we wouldn't be having this discussion. However, I may be jumping the gun, and there might be some other variable I'm not aware of that stopped them from doing this.

Jayuu · 03-06-2010 12:52pm

BluntGuy wrote: »

However, I may be jumping the gun, and there might be some other variable I'm not aware of that stopped them from doing this.

I doubt it actually! I'd say they just never considered the prospect of the money running out.

But as you say at least they were being practical in this instance.

Silverado · 03-06-2010 9:40pm

I don't see it happening yet in my area (and I rarely use any motorway other than the M9) but with the opening of the new motorway junctions there just has to be business opportunity for entrepreneurs. The need for private filling stations/shops/cafes etc. is obvious and if they can find sites just off the junctions surely they must be viable.

I can see it in some towns near me which have been bypassed and the local filling station is closed down. Here is a ready means of employment for those living near the junctions. Obviously getting planning permission may be a problem but at least Kilkenny Co. Council have adopted the following in their current Development Plan -

"IE10 To co-operate with the National Roads Authority to identify the need for service areas and/or rest areas for motorists along the route of the M8/M9 motorways and to assist in the implementation of suitable proposals for provision of service and/or rest areas."

It may not be quite what I am talking about but it shows the right spirit at least.

There is an obvious need for these services and it would be foolish to ignore the development and employment potential. It also gets around the budget problem with the NRA but prising loans from the banks could be almost as big a problem. However, some land owners may just have some "road money" (CPO compensation) to invest.

L1011 · 03-06-2010 9:43pm

What is the point of the NRA building one at Cashel when there's a private one being on a junction at Cashel?

Oh, wait, they're building one at Balbriggan when there's one ALREADY built on a junction there...

And as goes the M11 one being next, was that not planned to be built as part of the PPP?

Chris_5339762 · 03-06-2010 9:45pm

Yes, its in the Newlands/M11 PPP contract, as is maintenance for a chunk of the M11. Thats closest to (potentially) starting, so will be the next one to be built.

Still nothing on the M7/8/9 though, which is stupid. (Not counting the private cashel one)

marmurr1916 · 03-06-2010 10:43pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Yes, its in the Newlands/M11 PPP contract, as is maintenance for a chunk of the M11. Thats closest to (potentially) starting, so will be the next one to be built.

Still nothing on the M7/8/9 though, which is stupid. (Not counting the private cashel one)

There's also the one just off the motorway at Portlaoise. Horse & Jockey is about 1km from the motorway - not that big a deal.

Here's a report from Morning Ireland about how Monasterevin has fared since it was bypassed by the M7.

http://www.rte.ie/news/morningireland/player.html?20100603,2764928,2764929,real,209

L1011 · 03-06-2010 10:56pm

marmurr1916 wrote: »

There's also the one just off the motorway at Portlaoise.

Neither 24hr nor sells any fuel of any kind....

funnyname · 04-06-2010 9:26am

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Galwaybound at least you have a good choice where the M6 ends at the Athlone Bypass , exit N62 towards Birr and Kilmartins on the next roundabout at 250m offers 4 places to eat incl McDonalds and Subway and is only 300m from the Motorway.

24 hours for petrol and groceries.

sorry if this is OT but

Would it be safe to park there for a weekend (looking for somewhere to park in Athlone for the weekend as getting a lift from there)?

ongarboy · 14-06-2010 11:28am

interesting article in yesterday's Sunday Business Post saying Topaz will privately fund up to 15 MSSs which will have no public sector involvement with the first due to open in November at the Cashel interchange on the M8. McDonalds will open a restaurant within the complex.

http://www.thepost.ie/news/ireland/topaz-planning-major-expansion-49868.html

Pete_Cavan · 14-06-2010 12:07pm

Fair play to Topaz for showing a bit of initiative but I cant see how these stations will survive once the NRA gets round to building the rest of the online MSAs they have planned. I doubt the NRA will allow them to erect signs on the motorways advertising competing offline services when they have a contract with another company to operate online stations. Im sure if they did it wouldnt be long before they heard from SuperStop's (the consortium who won the contract to design, build, finance, maintain and operate the first six MSAs) lawyers.

Silverado · 14-06-2010 12:16pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Fair play to Topaz for showing a bit of initiative but I cant see how these stations will survive once the NRA gets round to building the rest of the online MSAs they have planned. I doubt the NRA will allow them to erect signs on the motorways advertising competing offline services when they have a contract with another company to operate online stations. Im sure if they did it wouldnt be long before they heard from SuperStop's (the consortium who won the contract to design, build, finance, maintain and operate the first six MSAs) lawyers.

There are ways round that one - signs on trailers in fields etc. At any rate the timescale (basically none) the NRA are indicating for developing most of the MSAs around the country would seem to indicate that a private operator just off a junction would have plenty of time to get established.

Amtmann · 16-06-2010 7:12pm

Just had a look at the Topaz/McDonalds site off the M8 at Cashel. Nothing happening whatsoever. It will hardly be open next Spring, never mind November.

16-06-2010 10:54pm

Furet wrote: »

Just had a look at the Topaz/McDonalds site off the M8 at Cashel. Nothing happening whatsoever. It will hardly be open next Spring, never mind November.

Don't forget, they can build those McD's in only a few weeks, they almost appear as if by magic!

munchkin_utd · 17-06-2010 8:49am

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't forget, they can build those McD's in only a few weeks, they almost appear as if by magic!

indeed
heres a mc donalds built in 24 hours
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMi5RJKKOlc

still, the foundations, installation of underground perol tanks, electrical/ water/ sewerage services can be in progress but to the passing observer nothing much is happening. (although when waiting for the ESB to connect you you might REALLY have nothing happening ;-) )

Amtmann · 17-06-2010 10:50am

That's very interesting! Still, it's not just the McDonalds - the Topaz has to be built too. I walked around the site and it hasn't changed in almost a year. There is kerbing down, but nothing else. I hope it opens asap to be honest. I fired off an email to Topaz there to ask what their rough schedule is.

Amtmann · 17-06-2010 2:18pm

Topaz just got back to me there. Construction works are due to start within the next two weeks, and a 22-week build period is envisaged. It will open for sure by late November or early December, I am told.

Amtmann · 19-06-2010 12:55am

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I doubt the NRA will allow them to erect signs on the motorways advertising competing offline services when they have a contract with another company to operate online stations. Im sure if they did it wouldnt be long before they heard from SuperStop's (the consortium who won the contract to design, build, finance, maintain and operate the first six MSAs) lawyers.

The NRA

is willing, in principle, to facilitate the erection of advance notification signage on national roads close to interchange exits that give access to privately developed service areas with facilities limited to those catering for road user needs. The signage must comply with NRA standards and specification. The promoters of such service areas will be responsible for the cost of signage manufacture and erection and for costs associated with future maintenance, including any necessary signage replacement.

From an NRA document.

pat13wx · 19-06-2010 8:28am

This was just posted yesterday evening on Facebook:

"A new service area off the M8 at junction 8 (Cashel) will start construction next week. The services will include a Topaz filling station and a McDonalds Drive-Thru restaurant. Both will be open by November."

http://www.facebook.com/pages/M8-motorway-Ireland/131113886902670?ref=ts

Nuttzz · 19-06-2010 11:12am

Why does the NRA need to develop MSA's at all

Cant they just tender them out per route. the succesful bidder pays X for motorway access per year. There is no need to PPP or any public money needed IMHO

Pete_Cavan · 20-06-2010 11:05am

Nuttzz wrote: »

Why does the NRA need to develop MSA's at all

Cant they just tender them out per route. the succesful bidder pays X for motorway access per year. There is no need to PPP or any public money needed IMHO

Going down the PPP route ensures all aspects, including on/off ramps to the motorway and the MSA itself meet minimum standards. Once the current PPP contracts expire the cost of the MSA will have been paid off new contracts for operating all the MSAs will be very valuable and provide a great source of income for the NRA.

Nuttzz · 20-06-2010 4:03pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Going down the PPP route ensures all aspects, including on/off ramps to the motorway and the MSA itself meet minimum standards. Once the current PPP contracts expire the cost of the MSA will have been paid off new contracts for operating all the MSAs will be very valuable and provide a great source of income for the NRA.

The tender can cover all the minimum standards and specs for the motorway as part of the operating licence. The PPP contracts expire in 20-30 years, licensing them now and getting them built privately brings in revenue from day 1 of operation

L1011 · 30-06-2010 10:47pm

M4 ones today looked as identiclly part-finished as they have for ages. Facilities blocks up and covered in (roof/wall panels/glass), supports for two canopies up on each, no pumps, unfinished ground works...

There are meant to open 'in August' I believe. Thats only 5-8 weeks away.

Amtmann · 30-06-2010 10:52pm

MYOB wrote: »

M4 ones today looked as identiclly part-finished as they have for ages. Facilities blocks up and covered in (roof/wall panels/glass), supports for two canopies up on each, no pumps, unfinished ground works...

There are meant to open 'in August' I believe. Thats only 5-8 weeks away.

I saw that yesterday. The M4 is the best road in the country.

notel70 · 02-07-2010 6:49pm

Furet wrote: »

I saw that yesterday. The M4 is the best road in the country.

I would agree except for the cats eyes from balinasloe to galway, they are a disgrace, why are they so big and you cant but not driver over them when changing lane

Chris_5339762 · 02-07-2010 7:15pm

I'd kiss the tarmac on the Ballinasloe to Galway bit if it wasnt illegal to stop to do it. Best bit of motorway in the country by a mile.

Carawaystick · 03-07-2010 1:00am

Furet wrote: »

I saw that yesterday. The M4 is the best road in the country.

I'd have to disagree - the M4 has one of the worst Motorway/Motorway junctions in the country, 500m advance notice of the split with the M6.
Badly signed and badly designed and the third most expensive to boot.

They also didn't take debit cards at the turnpikes

The junction layout at Maynooth is poor also.

Jayuu · 03-07-2010 11:39am

Carawaystick wrote: »

I'd have to disagree - the M4 has one of the worst Motorway/Motorway junctions in the country, 500m advance notice of the split with the M6.
Badly signed and badly designed and the third most expensive to boot.

The signage problem at the M4/M6 split and the previous junction could be easily solved if we had an advance warning sign similar to this one which exists on the M1 (Southbound) at Lisburn in Northern Ireland.

03-07-2010 12:09pm

notel70 wrote: »

I would agree except for the cats eyes from balinasloe to galway, they are a disgrace, why are they so big and you cant but not driver over them when changing lane

You must overtake like Lewis Hamilton to be able to switch lanes without hitting at least one!

L1011 · 03-07-2010 2:58pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

The junction layout at Maynooth is poor also.

Blame the planners for:

1: Allowing a business park to be slapped on the junction
2: Not requiring the business park to build either a larger scale full dumbell or roundabout interchange rather than the half-arsed halfdumbell they did build.

notel70 · 04-07-2010 2:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You must overtake like Lewis Hamilton to be able to switch lanes without hitting at least one!

Think you misread my post what im saying is that there is no way anyone driving above 100kmph can switch lanes on that road without going over the cats eyes, they are very uncomfortable to drive over(on 18inch wheels anyway) and also do not feel like they are doing my wheels any favors. I do not have this problem once I pass the ballinasloe exit;).

Amtmann · 05-07-2010 11:17am

AROUND 300 new jobs are to be created with the opening of the first motorway service areas in the country.

Irish company Applegreen has begun recruiting staff to fill the jobs, which will be created when the rest areas -- incorporating Burger King and Costa Coffee restaurants, showers, rest areas, playgrounds, and fuel outlets -- open in counties Dublin, Louth and Kildare.

The full and part-time jobs will be mainly in food service, with additional jobs in retail, cleaning and maintenance.

Construction is in the final stages, with the Lusk northbound site expected to be the first to open in September or October. Sites at Castlebellingham and Enfield will follow.

The project represents an investment of more than €70m by the Superstop consortium, which also includes Top Oil and Pierse Contracting.

Petrogas, the Irish firm that operates the Applegreen filling stations, recently reported that full-year profits plummeted to €1.7m last year from €5.4m in the previous year, but insisted it is going ahead with planned expansions.

Director of operations Joe Barrett said the investment was a demonstration of the firm's commitment to providing quality to Irish drivers.

"We have invested heavily in the Irish economy across our network and this is just the latest demonstration of our commitment to provide outstanding value and quality to the Irish motorist."

Applegreen is the country's largest independent forecourt retailer, with 57 sites in the Republic and an expanding network in the UK. Established in 2004, it employs more than 650 people.

The news is a welcome boost for the Government after latest Central Statistics Office figures showed unemployment last month rose to a 16-year high of 13.4%.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/motorway-stations-300-jobs-on-the-way-2246299.html

Having done a serious amount of driving last week, including Cork-Navan and Cork-Dublin several times, I can really appreciate now how absolutely necessary these are.

L1011 · 05-07-2010 1:03pm

The problem is these are down there with the least necessary of the lot of them - well Lusk (due to the existing Applegreen semi-services) and Enfield (proximity to Dublin and the Applegreen semi-services at Celbridge / 2x24hr stations at Maynooth junctions) anyway.

My job requires insane volumes of driving - as I've said before I've driven every inch of HQDC on the island and theres probably less than a few hundred KM of national primary/secondary I haven't covered - and I can see there are far worse gaps.

The entire M9 - its quite some distance off the N9 at many areas and the N9 was poorly served to begin with, the M6 after Athlone - long distances between junctions, junctions far from civilisation (Loughrea for instance), junctions where the nearby stations aren't 24hr.

The M11 and M20 stations being tacked on to their PPPs will just make the lack of stations on the M6/7/8/9 look more ridiculous.

Chris_5339762 · 05-07-2010 6:15pm

The M20 station will be a huge failure as its far too close to Cork to make anyone need to use it

whyulittle · 13-07-2010 9:10pm

Seems to be a bit more activity on the M4 sites lately. A fair bit of ground works going on, and noticed safety netting hanging from the forecourt canopies this morning.

ClareVisitor · 13-07-2010 10:19pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

The M20 station will be a huge failure as its far too close to Cork to make anyone need to use it

You'd be surprised, people travelling to Cork may stop off to freshen up before they hit the city. Scratchwood services at the bottom of the M1 as you go into London has been going for years. As I used to live just a mile from the end of the motorway myself I had no use for it, but people must be using it or it would have surely closed.

csd · 14-07-2010 8:08am

Here's a shot of the progress on the southbound M1 south MSA, taken Sunday:

Sully · 03-08-2010 10:37pm

I was reading Sean Kelly, Fine Gael MEP for Ireland South, newsletter today. Spotted something which I felt was worthy of discussion, or at least a mention.

I condemned the ham-fisted rollout of Motorway Service Stations on Ireland's new motorways.
The NRA has closed to the door to the private sector in the past, monopolising the construction of Motorway Service Areas. I have been contacted by a concerned constituent who is willing to build a service area but has been closed out by the NRA.
We now have a situation where the Government does not have the money to build Service Stations in Limerick, Cork, Waterford, Wexford and Cavan.
There is a simple solution to this problem which is let the private sector build them, this is best practice in other EU Member States and does not involve reinventing the wheel. All the NRA has to do is assign a plot of land for development and let the private sector construct the necessary access routes, buildings and so on.
Now that straitened times require creative thinking, the NRA should re-examine its ludicrous practices and allow the private sector to play its role in providing these necessary services.

He thinks, from what I gather, the private sector should be permitted to build service stations since the NRA are so damn slow and seem now not to have money to complete the constructions planned.

Having traveled a lot of motorways and felt the need to pull in for a "pit stop" or even a refuel - I find it most infuriating that there is hardly any on our motorway network. I cant get over the lack of foresight by the Irish government and the NRA - these should have been built at the exact same time, money allocated and planning sorted. However, there is not much good complaining about what they didn't do. We should now look forward and see what we can do.

The countries drivers need service stations on these motorways. Without them, in my opinion, its a major safety risk. Driving for a lengthy periods of times on a motorway is tiring - your focus and concentration is not as alert as it would be driving on our normal country, windy, pothole ridden roads. You can run low on petrol, or just need a place to pull in and refuel your own fuel levels - but you cant. Not every slip road has a service area thats 24hrs and even if they did - you wont know until you drive up, and look around. Why bother, if its just going to waste your time?

The government/NRA needs to just hold up their hands (for once!) and agree they made a mistake and that their solution is to offer the private sector the chance to buy the land, build the stations, and service the people who use our motorways. Not wait until money comes flowing back in and then another lengthy period of "When should we start", planning, tendering, debates, another recession, etc.

We have had many campaigns calling on the NRA/councils/governments to do something in the past - should we not do the same here? Demand our local representative raise the issue in the Dail and put pressure on them to address this fundamental issue?

I have never been so angered as I am with the complete lack of care that we have no service stations and no will to get them sorted. Its shocking.

L1011 · 03-08-2010 11:42pm

The forecourt roof edging appears to be on both N4 ones now, light green on the one in front of the facilities block (for Applegreen) and dark green on the further out one (TOP, for trucks presumably).

murpho999 · 03-08-2010 11:54pm

Sully wrote: »

I was reading Sean Kelly, Fine Gael MEP for Ireland South, newsletter today. Spotted something which I felt was worthy of discussion, or at least a mention.

He thinks, from what I gather, the private sector should be permitted to build service stations since the NRA are so damn slow and seem now not to have money to complete the constructions planned.

Having traveled a lot of motorways and felt the need to pull in for a "pit stop" or even a refuel - I find it most infuriating that there is hardly any on our motorway network. I cant get over the lack of foresight by the Irish government and the NRA - these should have been built at the exact same time, money allocated and planning sorted. However, there is not much good complaining about what they didn't do. We should now look forward and see what we can do.

The countries drivers need service stations on these motorways. Without them, in my opinion, its a major safety risk. Driving for a lengthy periods of times on a motorway is tiring - your focus and concentration is not as alert as it would be driving on our normal country, windy, pothole ridden roads. You can run low on petrol, or just need a place to pull in and refuel your own fuel levels - but you cant. Not every slip road has a service area thats 24hrs and even if they did - you wont know until you drive up, and look around. Why bother, if its just going to waste your time?

The government/NRA needs to just hold up their hands (for once!) and agree they made a mistake and that their solution is to offer the private sector the chance to buy the land, build the stations, and service the people who use our motorways. Not wait until money comes flowing back in and then another lengthy period of "When should we start", planning, tendering, debates, another recession, etc.

We have had many campaigns calling on the NRA/councils/governments to do something in the past - should we not do the same here? Demand our local representative raise the issue in the Dail and put pressure on them to address this fundamental issue?

I have never been so angered as I am with the complete lack of care that we have no service stations and no will to get them sorted. Its shocking.

Understand your anger, but I was surprised two years ago when I drove in the US and none of their vast Interstate networks have service areas on them. Difference is that services off the motorways are clearly signposted, and this is something that is lacking on our motorways. Here, you would have to know where to exit motorway in order to get petrol/food etc and that is clearly wrong. At the time of the motorways being planned and built the NRA had a policy against service areas but they shold have at least planned to have off line ones clearly signposted, especially for foreginers who would have no idea what towns/villages to go to.

TII Motorway Service Areas (MSA) Progress Thread

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