Prime Time Trucker Companies (acting illegal) RTE1

the_syco · 01-12-2008 10:45pm #1

On Prime Time (RTE 1) now. Very interesting.

galwaytt · 01-12-2008 10:58pm

Holy ****.

Outrageous, tbh......

alias no.9 · 01-12-2008 11:00pm

Jimmy Quinn, president of the Irish Road Hauliers caught by the short and curlies.

ulick-magee · 01-12-2008 11:01pm

just watching it.. Argo wont be happy having their name all over it and associated with a rouge operator

galwaytt · 01-12-2008 11:06pm

vote with your wallet gentlemen: next time you order a 'home delivery only' item from Argos- ask the hard questions. Don't like the answer they give ?..........then toddle to your local furniture shop instead.

Tabnabs · 01-12-2008 11:07pm

Jimmy Quinn, talk about sweating like a convicted rapist. Fantastic to see him squirm in his seat at the questions they put to him. What a toe-rag :mad:

peasant · 01-12-2008 11:09pm

Any chance of a synopsis for those of us not in front of a telly ?

Tabnabs · 01-12-2008 11:14pm

Truck drivers (generally foreign nationals) being paid less than minimal wage at times, for more hours than legally allowed to and without contracts of employment. Quinn lost on all allegations against him in LRC, but still hasn't paid a penny compensation (since last July). This was put to him after he had been all high and mighty about best practice and never condoning haulage firms who operate these practices.

GOTCHA!

Wishbone Ash · 01-12-2008 11:38pm

The Jimmy Quinn bit was dramatic alright. He was totally caught on the hop. He presumed he would be doing a bit of IRHA PR as usual. What a slap in the face. I don't think I've ever seen anyone looking so shocked and speechless on television.

quattro777 · 01-12-2008 11:43pm

That Jimmy Quinn bit was priceless..tv ambush of the year.

Rowley Birkin QC · 02-12-2008 12:05am

Does Prime Time be available on the RTÉ website?

Wouldn't mind seeing this.

mikemac · 02-12-2008 12:07am

Yep, it'll be available allright but you probably have to wait until tomorrow
I've often watched old shows from the website

Buffman · 02-12-2008 12:25am

That was pretty good alright, took him 3 days to come back to continue the interview, after some legal advice I imagine.:D

That truck trying to outrun the police in Holyhead was funny too, did he really think he'd get away?

Smokey and the bandit.
And what was his punishment, a 45 minute break before he contiunes...

paddydriver · 02-12-2008 1:00am

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The Jimmy Quinn bit was dramatic alright. He was totally caught on the hop. He presumed he would be doing a bit of IRHA PR as usual. What a slap in the face. I don't think I've ever seen anyone looking so shocked and speechless on television.

I honestly thought he was going to break into tears - the bottom lip started to quivver!

whowantstwoknow · 02-12-2008 1:15am

It was good alright, but whats wrong with this country, is that he has todate still got away with it, he should be locked up until the payment is made, simple as that really, just like the cafe owners, they wont be long coughing up when it affects them directly. Does he have a contact email address as I'd luv to congratulate him on his Tv performance

W.

ninty9er · 02-12-2008 1:23am

whowantstwoknow wrote: »

Does he have a contact email address as I'd luv to congratulate him on his Tv performance

W.

Can do better than that: from the IRHA website

Hands off Fuel Duty' Call From IRHA President

Jimmy Quinn, President of the Irish Road Haulage Association, has called on Minister for Finance, not to add further excise duty on diesel in next week’s budget.
“Fuel now represents 30% of operating costs for our members, and any further increases would shut us down. The soaring fuel prices over the past year, the dramatic slow down on export/import activities over past weeks, means that already many IRHA members have ‘parked up’ their vehicles” said Jimmy Quinn.
“Budget Day will decide if we have a future in our industry” added Jimmy Quinn.

Jimmy Quinn is available for further comment on 086 2489 877

Darragh29 · 02-12-2008 2:11am

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The Jimmy Quinn bit was dramatic alright. He was totally caught on the hop. He presumed he would be doing a bit of IRHA PR as usual. What a slap in the face. I don't think I've ever seen anyone looking so shocked and speechless on television.

His reaction was unique, it's the first time I've seen someone caught like that and just saying absolutely nothing! Typically Irish though, pointing the finger at other people and not having your own house in order!

To a certain degree though, I can't see the point Prime Time are trying to make to be honest... My GF often has to work hours well over and above what she is contracted to do as per her terms of employment. For example, she might be at a conference and is away overnight, she is technically working, but she can't turn around and start looking for time and a half or double time for the hours that she is away from home...

Also, I phoned a mate during the interval for that program who is in the transport industry and he said that as long as the trade allows rogue traders into the industry who are undercutting genuine operators, the folks who are genuine operators, have to take short cuts just to stay competitive.

He is currently losing contracts now to sole "fly by night" operators who don't pay any PAYE/PRSI tax, are not properly insured, no professional membership of the industry association, no administration overheads, no VAT invoices, no commercial rates, no rent, etc...

I know this mate well and he is hardworking and legit, but he said that if you were to start every day complying with the law, you wouldn't be in business by the end of the week, because standards within the industry are not enforced... You have licenced hauliers and you have unlicenced hauliers, and as long as you have unlicenced folks in the industry, licenced folks are undercut on price by these under the counter guys...

dologhli · 02-12-2008 3:02am

Darragh29 wrote: »

His reaction was unique, it's the first time I've seen someone caught like that and just saying absolutely nothing! Typically Irish though, pointing the finger at other people and not having your own house in order!

Agreed. They really had him there.

Tis up on the site now for anyone ( like me

) who missed it: http://www.rte.ie/news/primetimeinvestigates/ [NB: Fortunately, I missed it cos I was in the pub -- not cos my employers were making me work long hours

]

Darragh29 wrote: »

To a certain degree though, I can't see the point Prime Time are trying to make to be honest... My GF often has to work hours well over and above what she is contracted to do as per her terms of employment.

What do you mean here? Averaging more than 48 hours per week over 4 months? If she is working more than that, then send her off to call the number they list at the end.

Darragh29 wrote: »

For example, she might be at a conference and is away overnight, she is technically working, but she can't turn around and start looking for time and a half or double time for the hours that she is away from home...

But there's a difference between actually working all those hours she's away, and working 9-5 in a different office than usual, with a full night's sleep, etc etc. But it is a curious one:-- see http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0020/sec0002.html

"working time" means any time that the employee is—
( a ) at his or her place of work or at his or her employer's disposal, and
( b ) carrying on or performing the activities or duties of his or her work,"

So it appears to me that "she is technically working" is up for debate. [Sure if I were away for a week for work (as happens now and again) then that'd be me working 168 hours in that week... which I wouldn't count it as work... but I'm a bit weird and don't treat work as work anyway. It's super-happy-fun-time! Yay!]

Darragh29 · 02-12-2008 3:41am

I'm going to throw this out there...

There is a school of thought that is of the view that a lot of Polish are heading back to Poland, having made a nice few quid for themselves over here in recent years are all of a sudden, lobbing in claims for 4/5 digit figures against employers. Apparently they are going anyway, so why not go out with a bang...

Darragh29 · 02-12-2008 3:48am

dologhli wrote: »

So it appears to me that "she is technically working" is up for debate. [Sure if I were away for a week for work (as happens now and again) then that'd be me working 168 hours in that week... which I wouldn't count it as work... but I'm a bit weird and don't treat work as work anyway. It's super-happy-fun-time! Yay!]

Well that's grand as per the letter of the law... But if myself and herself wanted to use our own personal time to go to a movie or go for a meal, this isn't open to us because she is at work. According to the letter of the law, she is not engaged in work duties, but in reality, she is also not at leisure to do what she wants, as she would be if she were on her own time...

Now she doesn't go screaming for overtime or a payslip, it's swings and roundabouts. Sometimes she loses time and sometimes she gains time and can leave early on a Friday or come in late on a Monday or whatever. We don't get caught up about it and it doesn't end up on Primetime...

Bearcat · 02-12-2008 9:58am

Darragh29 wrote: »

I'm going to throw this out there...

There is a school of thought that is of the view that a lot of Polish are heading back to Poland, having made a nice few quid for themselves over here in recent years are all of a sudden, lobbing in claims for 4/5 digit figures against employers. Apparently they are going anyway, so why not go out with a bang...

a lot of pole child minders that have been let go are lobbing in for compo just for the hell of it to see where they get giving their ex employers endless hear ache re defending and in the majority of cases the compo claims are pure bogus.

leon8v · 02-12-2008 10:16am

Bearcat wrote: »

a lot of pole child minders that have been let go are lobbing in for compo just for the hell of it to see where they get giving their ex employers endless hear ache re defending and in the majority of cases the compo claims are pure bogus.

Thread is going off topic here but in all fairness, bogus compo claims are nothing new in this country neither are bogus welfare claims. You cant really blame them, we probably have a reputation for it at this stage.

peasant · 02-12-2008 10:45am

Thank you, leon8v !

Lads, let's stay with the trucking business.

alias no.9 · 02-12-2008 11:02am

Darragh29 wrote: »

Well that's grand as per the letter of the law... But if myself and herself wanted to use our own personal time to go to a movie or go for a meal, this isn't open to us because she is at work. According to the letter of the law, she is not engaged in work duties, but in reality, she is also not at leisure to do what she wants, as she would be if she were on her own time...

Now she doesn't go screaming for overtime or a payslip, it's swings and roundabouts. Sometimes she loses time and sometimes she gains time and can leave early on a Friday or come in late on a Monday or whatever. We don't get caught up about it and it doesn't end up on Primetime...

I don't know what your girlfriend does for a living but I'm assuming she's not a truck driver. The regulations for truck drivers exist to save lives, simple as that. Drivers breaching the limits are at a much greater risk of lapses in concentration and even falling asleep at the wheel. When you loose control of an 18 wheeler, there is a huge probability that someone will die.

niceirishfella · 02-12-2008 11:30am

Questionable business practises by these truckin companies but its no secret. I guess tho' its a rock and a hard place situation for truck co's to survive especially back in the boom, and more so now.
The cost of Diesel, insurance, leases etc and the competition out there not only from licenced competitiors but unlicenced toerag operators too.
South African and Eastern European drivers will do 16 or 18/20 hr days without being asked infact, my mate John who runs his own haulage co told me that if they do a 12 hour run and are then arrive back in the yard they come into the office looking for more runs to do.
Maybe they have themselves to blame?
Primetime sensationize a lot of this stuff, with their DARK filming, clever editing and clever promos. And they know how to ambush inarticulate muck savages like Jimmy Quinn (its not hard to be honest) to make good telly.

Darragh29 · 02-12-2008 11:37am

alias no.9 wrote: »

I don't know what your girlfriend does for a living but I'm assuming she's not a truck driver. The regulations for truck drivers exist to save lives, simple as that. Drivers breaching the limits are at a much greater risk of lapses in concentration and even falling asleep at the wheel. When you loose control of an 18 wheeler, there is a huge probability that someone will die.

Yeah I see the point you are making. I know though that Irish truck drivers also would have the same complaints as the foreign nationals who were interviewed last night have expressed. Interviewing just foreign drivers I think put an overtly racist construction onto the discussion...

kmick · 02-12-2008 11:46am

Darragh29 wrote: »

I'm going to throw this out there...

There is a school of thought that is of the view that a lot of Polish are heading back to Poland, having made a nice few quid for themselves over here in recent years are all of a sudden, lobbing in claims for 4/5 digit figures against employers. Apparently they are going anyway, so why not go out with a bang...

Well if employers underpaid/didnt declare then why not. They were the ones in the wrong.

alias no.9 · 02-12-2008 11:53am

Darragh29 wrote: »

Yeah I see the point you are making. I know though that Irish truck drivers also would have the same complaints as the foreign nationals who were interviewed last night have expressed. Interviewing just foreign drivers I think put an overtly racist construction onto the discussion...

Irish truckers wouldn't put up with the same conditions. Did Prime Time pick companies that only employed foreigners or was it simply a case that they identified the dregs of the industry and that within these companies, things are so bad that Irish truck drivers and even immigrant truck drivers that have been here long enough to know the ropes simply won't work for them? Most likely these companies rely on a steady turnover of newly arrived immigrant drivers.

Darragh29 · 02-12-2008 12:00pm

alias no.9 wrote: »

Irish truckers wouldn't put up with the same conditions. Did Prime Time pick companies that only employed foreigners or was it simply a case that they identified the dregs of the industry and that within these companies, things are so bad that Irish truck drivers and even immigrant truck drivers that have been here long enough to know the ropes simply won't work for them? Most likely these companies rely on a steady turnover of newly arrived immigrant drivers.

I think the solution here is to have stronger protections for whistleblowers. Also, LRC decisions should be made public insofar as where compensation is awarded, the employer should be identified and the payment of the award should be compulsory because at the moment, LRC recommendations are voluntary... Of course I'd say IBEC and their multinational bank rollers would have a lot to say about such an approach...

whiterebel · 02-12-2008 12:29pm

alias no.9 wrote: »

Irish truckers wouldn't put up with the same conditions. Did Prime Time pick companies that only employed foreigners or was it simply a case that they identified the dregs of the industry and that within these companies, things are so bad that Irish truck drivers and even immigrant truck drivers that have been here long enough to know the ropes simply won't work for them? Most likely these companies rely on a steady turnover of newly arrived immigrant drivers.

Yes they have, but not for the money thats being paid now.

alias no.9 · 02-12-2008 12:55pm

Darragh29 wrote: »

I think the solution here is to have stronger protections for whistleblowers. Also, LRC decisions should be made public insofar as where compensation is awarded, the employer should be identified and the payment of the award should be compulsory because at the moment, LRC recommendations are voluntary... Of course I'd say IBEC and their multinational bank rollers would have a lot to say about such an approach...

I think the key thing is that the payment of compensation be rigerously enforced. If they're just ignoring compensation awards, how can they be expected to act as a deterrent? It's a sad state of affairs but until there is certainty that this behaviour will cost more than compliance with the law, then compliance is a pipe dream.

Prime Time Trucker Companies (acting illegal) RTE1

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