Atheists and Incest? Yay or Nay?

JCB · 07-07-2008 10:38pm #1

For the poll: I define incest to be between consenting adults over say 18, not involving children.

Following on from abortion thread, I'm just wondering what are the views of the atheists on this board to incest? Should it be legalised? Should incestuous couples have the same rights akin to Gay Marriage?

Example:
Meet Patrick and Susan
They are brother and sister separated from birth who are in love with each other and have 4 children together. Since incest is illegal in Germany, Patrick has been sent to 2 1/2 years in prision.

Should the government have any right to interfere with their sexual rights?

An Fear Aniar · 07-07-2008 10:41pm

Interesting question. In the interest of eugenics, it would be outlawed of course. Not a morality thing but a health thing.

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JCB · 07-07-2008 10:55pm

An Fear Aniar wrote: »

Interesting question. In the interest of eugenics, it would be outlawed of course. Not a morality thing but a health thing.

.

Please don't bring eugenics into this!!! We've seen it do enough damage already.

Besides, couldn't they just use contraception. And since so many here are pro-choice, couldn't the female exercise her right to choice whether to keep the child or abort the child if it didn't meet eugenical standards?

Memnoch · 07-07-2008 10:55pm

According to the Bible there is nothing wrong with incest, because if we all came from Adam and Eve, it would be impossible for us to exist without it.

From my point of view, two consenting adults, etc etc. I seriously doubt enough people would participate in it to make a serious dent in the gene pool.

Tar.Aldarion · 07-07-2008 10:57pm

Nothing wrong with it. Wouldn't be in to it but in cases like the couple who recently got married, found out they were brother and sister seperated at birth and subsequently had the marraige annulled on them it is unfair.
Also two consenting adults should be allowed do each other.

JCB · 07-07-2008 10:58pm

Memnoch wrote: »

According to the Bible there is nothing wrong with incest, because if we all came from Adam and Eve, it would be impossible for us to exist without it.

From my point of view, two consenting adults, etc etc. I seriously doubt enough people would participate in it to make a serious dent in the gene pool.

Atheists consulting the bible for advice. :eek:

Interestingly according to wiki Incest was rampant in the "Graeco-Roman period of Egyptian history"

Schuhart · 07-07-2008 11:01pm

An Fear Aniar wrote: »

In the interest of eugenics, it would be outlawed of course.

Is this actually a problem in every case? I mean, presumably we're all ultimately the product of incest as the whole human species must be descended from some mating pair.

That's not to say that it should not be prohibited - but I'd expect the arguments for prohibition would be on grounds of mental health rather than physical health.

Is there any ban on folk having children if there is a risk of defects? I'm not aware of any, but open to correction. I mean, the issue of inherited defects presumably impacts on far more than incestuous relationships.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 07-07-2008 11:02pm

How about gay insestous couples, where there's no chance of procreation?

JCB · 07-07-2008 11:03pm

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

How about gay insestous couples, where there's no chance of procreation?

I've an option for that in the poll!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 07-07-2008 11:53pm

JCB wrote: »

I've an option for that in the poll!

didn't even see the poll.. bve interesting to see if anyone says "yes, but only hetero"!

Dinner · 08-07-2008 12:17am

It's wierd, definitly wierd but there's not really any good reason to ban it.

Galvasean · 08-07-2008 12:34am

"Incest? That's only for straight people." [Shameless]

JCB · 08-07-2008 12:39am

Arabel wrote: »

It's wierd, definitly wierd but there's not really any good reason to ban it.

That's the point i'm wondering about. I mean lots of people here have no problems with homosexuality, abortion and so on, and yet at the moment twice the amount people here think incest should still be outlawed and not made legal.

But I am just wondering about the inconsistancy with some atheists here?

Galvasean · 08-07-2008 12:48am

Where's the option that says "If you really want to, but only as there is no chance of producing offspring?"

edit: So OP, is the sister popping round for a visit?

JCB · 08-07-2008 1:13am

Galvasean wrote: »

Where's the option that says "If you really want to, but only as there is no chance of producing offspring?"

I didn't see the sterilisation option as being a runner, we are trying to liberate people here I thought?

Galvasean wrote:

edit: So OP, is the sister popping round for a visit?

Nah, she hasn't finished with YORE MA yet :rolleyes:

Dinner · 08-07-2008 1:15am

JCB wrote: »

That's the point i'm wondering about. I mean lots of people here have no problems with homosexuality, abortion and so on, and yet at the moment twice the amount people here think incest should still be outlawed and not made legal.

But I am just wondering about the inconsistancy with some atheists here?

I'd guess it may have something to do with a lot of people seeing the word incest and automatically think of their sister/brother and think "That's sick", reacting from an emotional rather than objective position.

I'm an only child, so I don't have a sister to relate that sort of thing to, so I'm not disgusted by it and so have no moral reason to object to it. But I can imagine that if I did have a sister, my opinion would probably be differant.

drunkmonkey · 08-07-2008 1:18am

Jesus H Christ JCB......What has being an Atheist got to do with ****ing your sister?

Nay!

JCB · 08-07-2008 1:21am

Arabel wrote: »

I'd guess it may have something to do with a lot of people seeing the word incest and automatically think of their sister/brother and think "That's sick", reacting from an emotional rather than objective position.

I could say exactly the same thing about my best friend since i'm not gay. I think there has to be a more valid reason than that.

arabel wrote:

I'm an only child, so I don't have a sister to relate that sort of thing to, so I'm not disgusted by it and so have no moral reason to object to it. But I can imagine that if I did have a sister, my opinion would probably be differant.

Don't you have parents, cousins, aunts, uncles to relate "that sort of thing" to?

You say "that sort of thing" as if it were evil, or something?

Sure if you were a bisexual bicestist you'd have your choice of everyone on earth?!:D

Dinner · 08-07-2008 1:27am

JCB wrote: »

Don't you have parents, cousins, aunts, uncles to relate "that sort of thing" to?

Have to say, I never even thought about all the other cases. Must be getting tired. But hey, I suppose if someone wants to throw it up their aunt then I'm not gonna stand in the way. Certainly not my sort of thing though.

JCB wrote: »

You say "that sort of thing" as if it were evil, or something?

Hah! Nah not at all just didn't think saying sister f*cker was very tactful.

JCB · 08-07-2008 1:28am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Jesus H Christ JCB......What has being an Atheist got to do with ****ing your sister?

Nay!

Apparantly lots to do with it, as I learned from the Lisbon treaty thread.....

Dades will fill you in, it's all to do with the 'debate'

Dave! · 08-07-2008 1:34am

I can't think of any legitimate reason to begrudge siblings having a sexual relationship if there is no question of reproduction.

However it becomes difficult when you bring in the question of children, because of the increased risk of deformities. But then you have to ask, should people with hereditary medical conditions not be allowed to have kids? People with mutations of their own (not sure if these are hereditary)?

Should haemophiliacs or sickle-cell anaemics not be permitted to have kids? I can't imagine most people think so; so why should relatives not be allowed to?

JCB · 08-07-2008 1:41am

Dave! wrote: »

I can't think of any legitimate reason to begrudge siblings having a sexual relationship if there is no question of reproduction.

However it becomes difficult when you bring in the question of children, because of the increased risk of deformities. But then you have to ask, should people with hereditary medical conditions not be allowed to have kids? People with mutations of their own (not sure if these are hereditary)?

Should haemophiliacs or sickle-cell anaemics not be permitted to have kids? I can't imagine most people think so; so why should relatives not be allowed to?

Exactly dave, there should be no need to resort to castrating people to allow incest

And if it's legal, why not give marital rights to them too?

The new civil partnership bill will allow alternative forms of love to be recognised and financially rewarded by law and yet most atheists here are stuck in the dark ages and won't even permit incest to be made legal, never mind give financial benefit to.

What's with that??!?

eVeNtInE · 08-07-2008 1:43am

This post has been deleted.

Fol20 · 08-07-2008 1:51am

Even though it is sick,i think it shouldn't be banned as people should be aloud love who ever they want.On a side note in the Patrick and Susan case is it just me or is Patrick being treated differently to Susan?He is sent to jail for 2.5yrs while shes sent to some facility...a bit unfair in my opinion.Secondly,Susan seems like shes a bit of a slut because shes already having a fifth child with someone else when patrick is in prison.

JCB · 08-07-2008 2:07am

Fol20 wrote: »

Even though it is sick,i think it shouldn't be banned as people should be aloud love who ever they want.On a side note in the Patrick and Susan case is it just me or is Patrick being treated differently to Susan?He is sent to jail for 2.5yrs while shes sent to some facility...a bit unfair in my opinion.Secondly,Susan seems like shes a bit of a slut because shes already having a fifth child with someone else when patrick is in prison.

But would you campaign for their rights?

If you think it should be legalised, then aren't Patrick and Susan victims which need to be free?

If I forwarded you e-mails of prominant politicians, would you send e-mails condemning this injustice?

All i'm getting is a sense of lethergy with no sense of moral outrage for the injustice being shown to those people.

Dades · 08-07-2008 9:49am

JCB wrote: »

But I am just wondering about the inconsistancy with some atheists here?

You do realise that atheists just don't believe in gods, right? If there are inconsistencies in the moral stance of posters it is on an individual level.

The comparison between two couples having children - siblings - and an unrelated couple one of whom carries a hereditary condition, is a very interesting one. Personally I'd require proper knowledge of the risks of inbreeding before really forming an opinion, though I'd have to say my initial knee jerk reaction would be to be against it.

Beruthiel · 08-07-2008 9:55am

Flowers in the Attic.
I have no problem with people doing what they want. I don't think having kids is a good idea though. The genes would be too close and would cause huge problems.

Zombrex · 08-07-2008 9:58am

JCB wrote: »

That's the point i'm wondering about. I mean lots of people here have no problems with homosexuality, abortion and so on, and yet at the moment twice the amount people here think incest should still be outlawed and not made legal.

But I am just wondering about the inconsistancy with some atheists here?

That is a bit of a jump JCB.

Incest doesn't have a whole lot to do with homosexuality or abortion, themselves not connected either. It is perfectly possible to have a position on one that doesn't force a position on the other. Most people seem to object to incest on the grounds that children produced by such a couple have a higher risk of genetic problems. That doesn't have anything to do with homosexuality or abortion.

Simply because they are issues that the Christian church lumped together under the universal banner of "sins" doesn't mean they actually are that connected out here in the real world.

Akrasia · 08-07-2008 10:03am

No harm, no foul IMO

I would be in favour of decriminalising it rather than providing a legal basis supporting it.

There should still be a stigma against it and it should still be socially unacceptable in most cases (except for the rare separated at birth events)

That said, I have a few hot cousins I wouldn't mind a go on :P

all the stars · 08-07-2008 10:03am

Heck no...

i have 3 brothers... love them and all but heck no!
As said already it can lead to all sorts of bad things if kids are being created.. deformaties i mean.

Also, how many people are in the world? why shop local?

PDN · 08-07-2008 10:13am

Not quite sure I see the connection with atheism. West Virginia is pretty religious but the people there are famous for their, er, loving families.

You can meet a guy there and he says, "Let me introduce you to my sister and my wife" - but there's only one woman standing beside him. :eek:

Atheists and Incest? Yay or Nay?

Do you as an atheist think incest should be legalised? 171 votes

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