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Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


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Deer shooting at night?????

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  • 21-04-2008 1:53pm
    #1
    pullandbang
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 4,948 ✭✭✭


    Before everyone rounds on me for asking this question...I've never shot deer at any time and know nothing about it.

    However, I have heard of people taking to the Dublin Mountains at night with lamps to shoot deer and I didn't think it was legal (or right for that matter). In fact I was asked if I was interested in going and I said no for the above reasons.

    And before anyone asks I don't know the names of the gun owners, they would be aquainted with someone I know who asked me because they knew I did a bit of shooting.

    Am I right in thinking it's illegal?


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    #2
    johngalway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    As far as I know it's not legal to lamp deer no. There may be some licence you can get if they're a real problem, if there is then someone here will come in and say. But, I would be thinking the same way as yourself P&B.


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    #3
    tiny-nioclas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 408 ✭✭tiny-nioclas


    nope thats illegal unless you have a section 42 licence issued to you by the department,which they might???


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    #4
    luckat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,366 ✭✭✭luckat


    It's pretty scary for the inhabitants of the mountains, who go out to walk their land and find some.... person... banging off guns at random.


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    #5
    It wasn't me!
    Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    Lamping deer is only by section 42 as far as I know, and they're thin enough on the ground, need a genuine problem to get them as far as I know. It's a shame to know there are so many people out there subverting the laws. Fooks everything up for the rest of us too.


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    #6
    Vegeta
    Registered Users Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    luckat wrote: »
    It's pretty scary for the inhabitants of the mountains, who go out to walk their land and find some.... person... banging off guns at random.

    well if someone is on land they should not be then there is the problem.


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    #7
    Vegeta
    Registered Users Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    It wasn't me! wrote: »
    Lamping deer is only by section 42 as far as I know, and they're thin enough on the ground, need a genuine problem to get them as far as I know. It's a shame to know there are so many people out there subverting the laws. Fooks everything up for the rest of us too.

    They could be doing it legally, I hope they are anyway. IWM is right, cowboys only do the sport harm.

    pullandbang if you do think they are doing it illegally maybe a quick call to the NPWS would be in order.

    Phone number is 01 8882000 I think, ask for Annie Lyons (last bit is a bad joke but the number is from their website)


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    #8
    It wasn't me!
    Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    If you're in any way suspicious, then give the NPWS a shout. If they're doing it perfectly legally, then they've nothing to worry about if the rangers check up on them. If, on the other hand, they're doing this illegally, the rangers should definitely be given the heads up. I'd say overall, better to make the call about this one. Can't do any harm and could put a stop to some very dodgy business.


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    #9
    pullandbang
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 4,948 ✭✭✭pullandbang


    Vegeta wrote: »
    They could be doing it legally, I hope they are anyway. IWM is right, cowboys only do the sport harm.

    pullandbang if you do think they are doing it illegally maybe a quick call to the NPWS would be in order.

    Phone number is 01 8882000 I think, ask for Annie Lyons (last bit is a bad joke but the number is from their website)

    I've no qualms about calling NPWS. Problem is I really don't know the names of the individuals with the rifles. As I said this invitation came through a "semi relative" and I turned it down on the basis that I thought it might be illegal and it just didn't seem right. I can appreciate a stalk in daylight but lamping a deer is just not the same as lamping a fox!

    Love the Annie Lyons bit....:D....I did come across some real Lions lately while out shooting...but that's another story!


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    #10
    It wasn't me!
    Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    I'd say if you know where they were planning on doing it, call anyway, without names. Won't make a difference to the guys out looking for them what they're called.


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    #11
    sixpointfive
    Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭sixpointfive


    people still shooting deer??? not on, report it now, during the deer season wicklow is like vegas with the amount of lamps flying around and to be honest i think the rangers turn a bit of a blind one most of the time, i dont think it will ever be stopped.


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    #12
    johngalway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    sixpointfive wrote: »
    people still shooting deer??? not on, report it now, during the deer season wicklow is like vegas with the amount of lamps flying around and to be honest i think the rangers turn a bit of a blind one most of the time, i dont think it will ever be stopped.

    It's important to make the point that not all lamps are after deer. I know of some quite biased people who think this (not meaning you) and publicise it each and everytime they get an oppertunity.


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    #13
    ivanthehunter
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭ivanthehunter


    I dont think you know the wicklow mts too well john(could be mistaken) but its very unlikely that genuine folk are knocking about at over 400mAOD (above sea LvL) late at night in the freezing cold after foxes.:p
    Anyway poaching is a pastime for many people in the wicklow area and they prob think that theres nothing wrong with. Lets face facts here, neither i or you would ever make much of a change in this age old practice..

    All that one can hope for is responsible shooting technique and some respect for their quarry from these devils of the night. the only difference which should exist is the license..

    Poaching is probably the worlds second oldest profession....:D


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    #14
    Jonty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭Jonty


    ivanthehunter wrote: »
    I dont think you know the wicklow mts too well john(could be mistaken) but its very unlikely that genuine folk are knocking about at over 400mAOD (above sea LvL) late at night in the freezing cold after foxes.:p
    Anyway poaching is a pastime for many people in the wicklow area and they prob think that theres nothing wrong with. Lets face facts here, neither i or you would ever make much of a change in this age old practice..

    All that one can hope for is responsible shooting technique and some respect for their quarry from these devils of the night. the only difference which should exist is the license..

    Poaching is probably the worlds second oldest profession....:D

    I'm often up there after foxes, I do shoot the foxes to keep farmers sweet for deer shooting.... in season of course. There's a few of us do the same thing, we are all genuine folks.


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    #15
    ivanthehunter
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭ivanthehunter


    OK i sorry about the generalisition but if you're in the mountains late at night you of all people must see the poaching thats going on... Did you ever drive up Glenmalure late at night and park up with no lights on.. You wont find the teddy bears picnic but you see a load of people out looking for something with torches:rolleyes:
    These lads might be shooting fox but being realistic they are popping off deer when they get the chance.. Trust me i have met some of them..


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    #16
    pullandbang
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 4,948 ✭✭✭pullandbang


    sixpointfive wrote: »
    people still shooting deer??? not on, report it now, during the deer season wicklow is like vegas with the amount of lamps flying around and to be honest i think the rangers turn a bit of a blind one most of the time, i dont think it will ever be stopped.

    The invitation I got was before Christmas so I can't say whether the people involved are still at it out of season. I only posted it here now because I only recently joined the forum and I just thought of it as I was reading another post today.


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    #17
    irish setter
    Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭irish setter


    ok lads lets be honest here there is poaching and then there is taking the mick. i don't do either so lets get that straight first. i hear lads banging on at which type of hunting is traditional to our island but the fact is none are. poaching is because its all people could do and its what they needed to do to survive. i know a man who takes one deer and one salmon a year and i see nothing wrong with that. then i know of where lads can leave 3 of 4 deer dead in a field to rot in 1 night and thats a different story


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    #18
    eoinkildare
    Registered Users Posts: 294 ✭✭eoinkildare


    ivan,
    just cause a whole lot of people poach doesn't make it right. the seasons and the rules are there for a reason.

    eoin


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    #19
    johngalway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    As I said, some folks don't know it all. Tarring all with the same brush is a strategy that rarely works.


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    #20
    whitser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭whitser


    just cos you see a lamp in the mountains doesnt mean deer shooting. could be shooting foxes or could be likes of me lamping rabbits and foxes with lurchers, not a gun in sight.


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    #21
    NoNameRanger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 273 ✭✭NoNameRanger


    sixpointfive wrote: »
    people still shooting deer??? not on, report it now, during the deer season wicklow is like vegas with the amount of lamps flying around and to be honest i think the rangers turn a bit of a blind one most of the time, i dont think it will ever be stopped.

    Come down off that big horse!
    Have you ever tried catching poachers? Do you know the amount of work that is involved in taking one poacher to court and having a successful prosecution? Do you know of the amount of other work Rangers have to do besides sitting in the mountains in the freezing cold all night on the off chance that they will catch a lad lamping and have a deer in the boot? Do you realise that Rangers are only allowed to work 39 hours per week and are not allowed overtime or paid for night work? Do you realise that that most Rangers work above the hours that they can claim for because they are dedicated to their cause? Do you realise the risks Rangers take stopping vehicles in the mountains, knowing that the occcupants have guns? Do you know what it is like to walk up to a car wondering if the occupants are drug dealers ready to blow your brains out? Do you know what Rangers get paid for this? The same as the Clerical Officer in the Civil service entering you deer licence details.
    Do not make sweeping statements like that, I am a Ranger and i do not turn a blind eye and i don't know of any of my collegues that would either. If the rest of the government employees were as dedicated as Rangers are, we would have a very fine country.


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    #22
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    TBH, I think deer poaching is on the wane. I used to see lads out with lamps quite regularly and spoke to a few as well. Lately I haven't seen or heard any (that's over the last couple of years) when I would have encountered them at least once a month.

    I've a feeling it's due to people being a bit more well off and not bothered anymore.


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    #23
    The Villain
    Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭The Villain


    sixpointfive wrote: »
    people still shooting deer??? not on, report it now, during the deer season wicklow is like vegas with the amount of lamps flying around and to be honest i think the rangers turn a bit of a blind one most of the time, i dont think it will ever be stopped.

    6.5,

    I'm a nominated stalker on a current section 42 permit which permits me to shoot deer. Are you going to report me??? I didn't think so. Making general statements and assumptions without hard facts just annoys people who are doing it by the book. And by the way, you don't seem to be the only one on this thread making these generalisations!!


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    #24
    BryanL
    Registered Users Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭BryanL


    It's hard to go out any night of the season in Cork and not see people lamping.almost always it's after rabbits with dogs and it's fairly rare to hear anyone out shooting.it's not all about poaching deer.
    I think if the gardai took a reasonable approach to giving people licenses for deer appropiate calibres it would get rid of any deer being taken with .22's or at night?
    Bryan


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    #25
    It wasn't me!
    Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    The Villain wrote: »
    6.5,

    I'm a nominated stalker on a current section 42 permit which permits me to shoot deer. Are you going to report me??? I didn't think so. Making general statements and assumptions without hard facts just annoys people who are doing it by the book. And by the way, you don't seem to be the only one on this thread making these generalisations!!

    I think the idea is that this could be underhand. If it were someone like yourself doing it completely legally, then they would have nothing to worry about, as all they have to do is show their permit and away they go, but if it were people poaching, then it could be a catch for the NPWS, which would be nice. SO in either case, I think reporting it can't do any harm.


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    #26
    sixpointfive
    Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭sixpointfive


    The Villain wrote: »
    6.5,

    I'm a nominated stalker on a current section 42 permit which permits me to shoot deer. Are you going to report me??? I didn't think so. Making general statements and assumptions without hard facts just annoys people who are doing it by the book. And by the way, you don't seem to be the only one on this thread making these generalisations!!

    im not pointing the finger at anybody but if you are totally in the right then you wont mind getting a knock on the window

    "Come down off that big horse!"
    No hoss here boss, im simply pointing out that it doesnt appear to joe public that there is alot of people being cought, i apologise if i insulted you with that comment as i didnt realise the bulls#1t and red tape involved in bringing a prosecution for said offence, i am one of the many paying top dollar to coillte for a handful of mornings shooting on a couple of lettings in wicklow that are being fleeced at night and i have seen it myself and reported it and the reg of vehicle but never hear any more back


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    #27
    whitser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭whitser


    why and when was lamping deer made illegal?
    if you can lamp and shoot fox and rabbits why not deer? was it a health and safety issue cos of bigger rifles?


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    #28
    It wasn't me!
    Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    Deer are a protected species. Same reason you can't lamp hares or pheasants for that matter. Foxes and rabbits are vermin.


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    #29
    Vegeta
    Registered Users Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    whitser wrote: »
    why and when was lamping deer made illegal?
    if you can lamp and shoot fox and rabbits why not deer? was it a health and safety issue cos of bigger rifles?

    I don't have the legal-eese at hand but I am sure its because deer are not vermin.

    Vermin are offered very little "protection" in the wildlife act


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    #30
    IRLConor
    Subscribers Posts: 4,075 ✭✭✭IRLConor


    whitser wrote: »
    why and when was lamping deer made illegal?
    if you can lamp and shoot fox and rabbits why not deer? was it a health and safety issue cos of bigger rifles?

    Section 37 and Section 38 of the Wildlife Act 1976 cover it.

    You can't lamp (or hunt at night) any protected wild animal without a permit authorising you to do so. I suspect that the various definitions in the laws allow foxes and rabbits to not be considered "protected wild animals" when hunted for crop/livestock protection. I don't know the appropriate bits of law which cover this though, so you may have to do a bit of digging on http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ to find it.


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    #31
    thelurcher
    Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭thelurcher


    sixpointfive wrote: »
    No hoss here boss, im simply pointing out that it doesnt appear to joe public that there is alot of people being cought

    In all fairness I don't think 'joe public' is losing much sleep about this :rolleyes:

    Also I don't know much about the area you're talking about but from what I'm told deer are hardly an endangered species up that way :confused: - who's to say your field craft is any better or worse than theirs? Speaking for myself - I know a lot of people who 'poach' my permission - and you know why? - they're the ones that showed me it in the first place. It's just that I decided to go the legal route.

    And if you are the nominated stalker on a current section 42 permit - be careful who you invite for a night's lamping - that they don't go posting on a public forum 6mths later that you're a 'poacher' ;)


This discussion has been closed.
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