The Biggest Poker FU of my life

Fatboydim · 31-05-2007 4:09pm #1

This is a very difficult post for me to write and I didn't think I was going to do it... But here it goes.

I won my seat to the WSOP on Stars. Now flights, hotel costs etc have gone up significantly this year and the extra 1K just doesn't cut it. I also can't take advantage of the extra 1K for wearing Pokerstars gear because of my association with PPP which is fare enough. So I decided if I was gonna go I would have to qualify again or at least raise another 5k or so. [Because I want the familly to come as well]

I was just shy $150 or so of a buy in to a sat and decided to deposit the amount via CC given that I had already cashed out 1k by bank draft and 10k by cheque. Only as I went to deposit a pop up informed me that I could cancel the pendink 10k cash out.

So what did I do? I cancelled it.... Needless to say I didn't win the sat and I was now down $150. So instead of scratching around for this 150 I decided I'd go play some cash. By the end of Saturday I was playing $25 / $50 when I usually never play cash and if I do it's anything from 50 / 1 - 3/6. I was up three grand and thought ... hey I might be able to get the money this way. So on Sunday i went back to these limits and got murdered.

I no longer have my WSOP buy in.

My point in posting this is two fold.

1st it serves as a big warning not to play above your comfort zone. They could smell my fear.

2nd - I think that pop up on stars should be banned. Surely if a player decides to cash out that should be a done deal... Not learn five days later that the money is still in the account and available to play with.

I have messed up big style. I've been on to Stars about this pop up as I don't think it's neccessary, but quite frankly I don't think they'll change it.

You can cancel cash outs on other sites, but have to jump through a few hoops to do so.

Idiots like me have to be protected after all.

5starpool · 31-05-2007 4:12pm

Ouch. I have never qualified online for a live tournie, but I thought you did not have the option of cashing out your seat?

BigCityBanker · 31-05-2007 4:14pm

honest post, ul.

Get your ass in gear and qualify again.

Ste05 · 31-05-2007 4:21pm

Difficult post to submit I'm sure, although I'd say you've learned your lesson pretty scary stuff and a good warning to others.

AFAIK, Stars now have pretty good protections for playing Levels etc. you can set levels that your not allowed to play above. I'm suprised the money was still in your account after 5 days, whenever I cash out from Stars (to Neteller mind you) it's usually in my Neteller account in a matter of hours.

I've also never qualified for a Live event on-line before either, do you just get cash into your account instead of them paying you in? I always thought they bought you in and gave you your expenses into your account.

Fatboydim · 31-05-2007 4:22pm

5starpool wrote:

Ouch. I have never qualified online for a live tournie, but I thought you did not have the option of cashing out your seat?

That's another point as well.. According to Harrah's they cannot accept buy ins from US operators. So that's why it's cash. I do think it will seriously affect the numbers this year.

What really annoys me though is that had that pop up not given me the option of cancelling the check I'd only be a couple of hundred down instead of thousands. I do have Neteller but haven't set it up properly, which is why I opted for the cheque.

smurph · 31-05-2007 4:27pm

Tough spot Len and a very honost post. TBH I think that alot of people have dabbled in games way above their limits. I haven't done it online, but i have been spotted sitting at the €100 omaha game in the Fitz,

It was as you said a big wake up call....... you tested the water and it was very f*ckin deep and full of sharks......

Lesson learn't, chin up..

loosecannon · 31-05-2007 4:36pm

Hi mate

That's horrible... v ul, I have been there many a time myself, My bankroll management is questionable sometimes to say the least and it's something i'm trying to work on a lot...

A few examples of when i've done this before might ease your pain, i've done this a couple of time on Full Tilt, turned a $200 deposit into anywhere between $5k and $15k and gone from playing .50/$1 up to $10/$20 within a week, and then and gone and burned it all. I've really tried to stop doing this and i'm getting a lot better

But as recently as a couple of months ago I did it on Ladbrokes with a big bet I won, I had €250 on Ireland to qualify from their group in the Cricket World Cup @ 33/1, which got me €8k ish, i started playing some 2/4 (not a poker site i usually have any of my BR on) and was quickly up to €11k, then i won the $100 sat into my $1,400 qualifier. I preceeded to win my WSOP seat in the morning and then spunk the €11k playing 5/10 and 15/30 etc!! this was the same day as i won my seat!! how i wish i left it for the day

just to show that every cloud has a silver lining, despite my ladbrokes account being at 0, they then transferred me the $2k for the wsop expenses etc and within a month or so i got that up to $20 oddk and saw some sense and took it out. (i'm hoping the same will happen for you and you get another wsop seat very soon)

hope that any of this rambling helps

gl mate

Flipper · 31-05-2007 4:36pm

That's terrible news Len. I really hope you bounce back from it and make it over anyway. Consider it an expensive lesson i guess...

Fatboydim · 31-05-2007 4:40pm

The wife's not divorcing me... That's a bonus

Thanks guys...The lesson is deffo learnt... But what about that pop up? Should a cash out request be a done deal. It is on most sites.

dacman · 31-05-2007 4:52pm

I think the fact that you can cancel a withdrawel isnt right. Maybe for an hour or so incase you make a mistake but 5 days is bad.. Pokerstars really need to change this. I've had problems cashing out on poker stars before where I couldn't cash out for 72 hours after making a deposit. I realise they may be fraud implications but surely not when its just tournanments.

Bandana boy · 31-05-2007 5:37pm

loosecannon wrote:

, My bankroll management is questionable sometimes to say the least

A graph of Loosecannons BR

DeVore · 31-05-2007 5:56pm

I hate to say it but I think you stopped your own cash out and then took it upon yourself to spin that money up. I dont really see how Stars did anything wrong....

On a personal note, its going to suck not having you out there.

DeV.

loosecannon · 31-05-2007 5:59pm

how did you hack in to my P/L chart on my poker tracker bandana boy?? lol

it's not quite that bad, the peaks aren't as big as on that rollercoaster!

Fatboydim · 31-05-2007 6:17pm

DeVore wrote:

I hate to say it but I think you stopped your own cash out and then took it upon yourself to spin that money up. I dont really see how Stars did anything wrong....

On a personal note, its going to suck not having you out there.

DeV.

Had I just done the cash out an hour or so before I think you'd be right DeV. But I couldn't believe the pop up five days later.. However of course the loss is down to me. I just don't think it's very responsible of Stars. ho say they promote responsible gaming. We all know people who have a problem, I don't think I have as I only play with what I can afford to lose, and this loss hurt but at least I was losing winnings and not the bread money - and after all this was supposed to be a ticket to the WSOP. So to me it seems like -

Yeah we promote responsible gaming... What's that you want $150 from your CC ?- never mind that we'll cancel your cheque and save you a few bob so you can come play more.

Stars say this is to advantage their players I think it's an advantage to them.

Spilt milk and everything But I was surprised when it came up at all...

Marq · 31-05-2007 6:48pm

As I understand it you had cashed out but then wished to redeposit the 150?
And stars very nicely told you that you had a cashout pending and that you could cancel it and not have to redeposit?
and you could have immediately requested another cashout for 9850 seconds later?

I don't think there's anything irresponsible about what stars have done here. they've basically seen you try to redeposit and offered to save you the trouble.

5starpool · 31-05-2007 6:53pm

The main problem seems to be the 5 day period between requesting cashout and being allowed to cancel it.

Ste05 · 31-05-2007 7:15pm

I must say if the pop-up happened to me I'd be thinking of it from a completely different angle. I'd actually be pissed that they hadn't processed my cashout yet, and certainly wouldn't cancel it if this is how long those cheques take to process because I wouldn't want to re-start the process.

Seriously 5 days sounds like an eternity to me for a Stars cashout.

Hectorjelly · 31-05-2007 7:18pm

Ste05 wrote:

I must say if the pop-up happened to me I'd be thinking of it from a completely different angle. I'd actually be pissed that they hadn't processed my cashout yet, and certainly wouldn't cancel it if this is how long those cheques take to process because I wouldn't want to re-start the process.

Seriously 5 days sounds like an eternity to me for a Stars cashout.

Nit! Why not play some 100/100 omaha?

Ste05 · 31-05-2007 7:20pm

Hectorjelly wrote:

Nit! Why not play some 100/100 omaha?

Sorry, yeah of course that would be my first instinct after my anger subsided somewhat, I always forget these options when I post... :rolleyes:

phantom_lord · 31-05-2007 8:02pm

i never understood why people have such a big discipline problem online, why people jump up levels where they're clearly gonna lose money and all that sort of stuff. I'd be more pissed if stars wouldn't let me have control of my own cash.

Fatboydim · 31-05-2007 8:06pm

Marq wrote:

As I understand it you had cashed out but then wished to redeposit the 150?
And stars very nicely told you that you had a cashout pending and that you could cancel it and not have to redeposit?
and you could have immediately requested another cashout for 9850 seconds later?

I don't think there's anything irresponsible about what stars have done here. they've basically seen you try to redeposit and offered to save you the trouble.

Of course that would have been the sensible thing to do:rolleyes:

But if I wanted to cancel my cheque, surely I could have enquired about this. The pop up only happens once you've input all your cc details.

I just think it's uneccessary.

Chucky the tree · 31-05-2007 8:17pm

Fatboydim wrote:

The wife's divorcing me... That's a bonus

FYP.

Hectorjelly · 31-05-2007 8:38pm

Fatboydim wrote:

I just think it's uneccessary.

Is pokerstars,

a) A poker site that makes money from people playing poker ... or
b) a charity

Macspower · 31-05-2007 8:53pm

Hectorjelly wrote:

Is pokerstars,

a) A poker site that makes money from people playing poker ... or
b) a charity

didn't know that word was in your vocabulary??

I don't think you can put any blame on the site but I do feel for you.... terrible situation to get into....

anyway chin up...... and you definately seem like a very cabable player... lesson learnt... at least it was money u won that you lost..... worse if it was money for something else or someone elses money....

Mac

Doc Farrell · 31-05-2007 9:48pm

Sorry to hear that you lost the buyin len. Try to think of it as your top full house beaten by quads on the first day of the tourney. At least you never got to see the cash.

why don't you take a full break from the game for a month or two, until after the WSOP is over?
you'll only be playing slightly pisssed off.

strewelpeter · 31-05-2007 11:19pm

Tough post to write, wp.
Just by writing it and maybe taking an attitude like Doc suggests you will be well on the way to seeing this as just a setback.

hotspur · 01-06-2007 12:19am

Having a reminder for someone depositing that there is a pending withdrawal seems to me to be a good feature for players, withdrawing $10k and depositing $150 is a highly unusual situation. The 5 day thing must be down to either the fact that it was $10k or that it was a WSOP satellite, it wouldn't usually take that long to process a few grand to a recognised customer, so again it seems like an unusual situation.

So I have to say I don't think it really smacks of a lack of responsible gambling policy. Stars protect you a lot more than most poker sites. I'd say it's more that you are projecting your anger. I'm sorry to hear you blew the cash, most of us have been there, count yourself lucky you're not a big cash game player. Take the family somewhere that doesn't cost $10k for you to play a lottery instead and enjoy it

MrPillowTalk · 01-06-2007 1:06am

Think thats a bit out of order giving him the needle PL.

mewso · 01-06-2007 2:44am

Sorry to hear this Len but hey I'll be there and so far with no ticket so see you in the bar.

Fatboydim · 01-06-2007 12:43pm

hotspur wrote:

So I have to say I don't think it really smacks of a lack of responsible gambling policy. Stars protect you a lot more than most poker sites. I'd say it's more that you are projecting your anger.

You don't know me very well do you? My attitude to the thing has been very much along the lines Des has suggested. Ater all I'm still up on where I was two weeks ago. It's why I could never earn my living by poker alone. I wouldn't want the stress of Variance. You have to laugh really and it is only money. My kids aren't going hungry, the bills aren't going unpaid, though - don'tget me wrong - I could have done with that money.

So I wouldn't say I'm proecting anger... But I do feel that if I could stop someone else doing the daft thing I did then at least something good comes out of it. That's been the point of this post. If it encourages better bank roll management from me and others then great.

So loking at thesituation in a cold practical manner:

I request a cash out for 10k
I have only two options to do so as anything over 1k cannot be drawn back to my bank card - cheque or Neteller.
My Neteller hasn't yet been linked to my physical bank acc so I choose "check". It informs me that this can take up to 15 days to arrive.
It asks if I am sure. I click yes.

I expect that to be a done deal.

5 days later I want to deposit €150.
I go through putting in all the usual details and at the point of pressing submit, instead of submitting a pop up informs me I have a check pending and can cancel it.

So is that pop up neccessary? Does their systems have to be that slow? Is that serving me as a player? Why five days? [I suspect that has to do with high interest banking]

I take a 100% responsibility for my loses and always will. I haven't even bothered mentioning the BB. That's poker.

But I limit my deposits to Stars to no more than $500 a month. That works for me. I would expect a cash out to be binding once you click submit. So that from that moment the money no longer shows in the account it is no longer in the account.

That to me seems responsible.

Not everyone who reads or posts on here is a winner. The best quote I ever read on here was when MrPillowtalk was in the well - To the question of hether or not he would ever turn Pro he answered:

I know many millionaire builders. I don't know many millionaire poker players.

As HJ points out - Stars is there for Stars and to make money.

Stars gets very little criticism on here. It's a great site for sure. But compare the noise to when something goes wrong with PPP.

But I know which I think has the better customer service.

DeVore · 01-06-2007 12:46pm

The point here is, nothing did go wrong. Their system did exactly what it said on the box to be fair.

DeV.

The Biggest Poker FU of my life

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