Charity Mugger

Fallen Seraph · 22-05-2007 8:43pm #1

I've just applied for a job as a charity mugger/worker, one of those people who you see around town all the time; and I was wondering is there anyone around here who has experience with the job; I'm rather curious to know what *precisely* the dilly-o with pay is. what face2face say on their website seems to directly contradict what was said at the interview wrt commission, and I'd quite like to get it straight before I've got a contract staring me in the face.

is the 315 a week an absolute minimum regardless of the number of people signed up during the day?

22-05-2007 8:50pm

I'm afraid I can't answer your question as I don't know but I wanted to ask you something-
What;s your motivation for applying for this particular type of job? Is it based on other charity work you've done?

Fallen Seraph · 22-05-2007 8:58pm

Threefold, I would think:
1. I need money for mext year
2. I expect that it'll be a job out of which I can get a lot of satisfaction
3. It does seem like a rather worthwhile way to spend one's time.

BigTommyBomb · 22-05-2007 9:01pm

I did a bit of work for a charity just collecting at churches and it was a rewarding experience. It was of course voluntary as taking money from a charity and annoying the general public is a disgusting way to make your living.

stepbar · 22-05-2007 9:03pm

Fallen Seraph wrote:

I've just applied for a job as a charity mugger/worker, one of those people who you see around town all the time; and I was wondering is there anyone around here who has experience with the job; I'm rather curious to know what *precisely* the dilly-o with pay is. what face2face say on their website seems to directly contradict what was said at the interview wrt commission, and I'd quite like to get it straight before I've got a contract staring me in the face.

is the 315 a week an absolute minimum regardless of the number of people signed up during the day?

Dude, seriously if you had any respect for yourself you wouldnt....

Fallen Seraph · 22-05-2007 9:25pm

BigTommyBomb wrote:

I did a bit of work for a charity just collecting at churches and it was a rewarding experience. It was of course voluntary as taking money from a charity and annoying the general public is a disgusting way to make your living.

Yes, working full-time for a charity is an intensely unreasonable thing to expect minimum wage for.

Because if people worked full time for no money, there wouldn't be too many people working full time for charity... sorta causing it to be intensely less effective.

Some top-notch logic there. Congratulations.

mikemac · 22-05-2007 9:30pm

I've heard €12 per hour. Don't know if this is accurate but decent money for a zero-skill job.

Go for it OP. Very few chuggers around compared to last summer.
Where are they all gone?

BigTommyBomb · 22-05-2007 9:33pm

Any decent charity will have a minimum of staff working for them and teams of volunteers. Whats the point in people donating money to a charity if most of it is eaten up in admin costs? You call them muggers yourself so thats an indication to their status. And e12-14 an hour is far from minimum wage.

Fallen Seraph · 22-05-2007 9:52pm

BigTommyBomb wrote:

Any decent charity will have a minimum of staff working for them and teams of volunteers.Whats the point in people donating money to a charity if most of it is eaten up in admin costs?

I'm ignorant of what's being payed. Which was the point of this thread.

And I agree that there is little point in giving money to charity when most of it is being eaten up in admin costs. But the point and strength of charity muggers is that they get to people who wouldn't usually give to charity. If one has the clarity to see that there's no point in giving money to admin costs then imo they are likely to be able to find more efficient ways of giving to charity. Not everyone has the time or the know how to go about doing this.

Getting to those who otherwise wouldn't be giving to charity is where the justification for muggers comes in. Going with my suspected figure of 315 a week. A charity mugger is expected to sign 5 people up a day. At 20 euro a month, five people a day, for 4 weeks a charity mugger brings in at least 2000 euro to the charity compared with the 1200 they are being paid. At least 2000 euro. Most of which money wouldn't have been given to charity, were it not for the muggers.

Moreover; I have to work for the summer. My other options are dunnes, or bewey's or something of that kind. If I'm working for these companies I'm working earning money for rich shareholders, owners and managers. Working as a charity mugger I'm earning money for charities. I do not understand how this is disgusting, or somehow of less merit.

Cake Fiend · 22-05-2007 10:02pm

Fallen Seraph wrote:

A charity mugger is expected to sign 5 people up a day. At 20 euro a month, five people a day, for 4 weeks...

They're seriously optimistic figures.

BigTommyBomb · 22-05-2007 10:04pm

Whats wrong with earning money for rich shareholders? They give you jobs, contribute to state tax and are the basis for a capitalist societies. Nothing immoral about working in the private sector.

I'd have no problem with chuggers if they just stood around and shook their buckets with a bit of dignity but their 'sales' tactics are completly immoral. I myself and many others now make sure to never give money to any charity that employs chuggers so thats there loss.

Fallen Seraph · 22-05-2007 10:14pm

BigTommyBomb wrote:

I'd have no problem with chuggers if they just stood around and shook their buckets with a bit of dignity but their 'sales' tactics are completly immoral. I myself and many others now make sure to never give money to any charity that employs chuggers so thats there loss.

I must say that I'm still at a loss to understand what's immoral about making money for charity.... Chuggers are obviously employed because they bring in more money for charities than they cost. If they were to just stand around shaking their buckets then they wouldn't.

And might you elaborate on how the tactics are immoral? I can understand why people dislike their "sales" tactics. But how it's immoral escapes me.

And in rebuttal to the dislike of the tactics; one should certainly be able to pass by a chugger with a clear conscience if they consider themselves to be giving an adequate amount of their earnings to charity.... Some might consider it immoral to be willing to spend 600 euro on some silly gucci handbag; but not be willing to give 20 euro a month to feed starving children....

stepbar · 22-05-2007 11:17pm

Ill tell you whats "immoral" about making money for charity.... When the person "fundraising" is also making money!!!!!

Thats the problem that people have. I would rather go direct, at least you know that wages / admin costs wont absorb 6 - 12 Direct debit payments.

Fallen Seraph · 22-05-2007 11:32pm

But what's "immoral" about this "fundraising"? I'm not trying to be smart, I genuinely don't understand it. I just can't see the difference between making money for starving kids in africa and making money for ben dunne... I gotta work either way this summer and I really cannot fathom what is wrong with the profits from my work going to needy people. If my wages were to cost more than the money I bring in then I completely understand what the problem is. But the fact of the matter is that they don't...

And unless you know someone who lives in africa and to whom you can simply wire your alms, there will always be overheads. Landowners don't just give premises to charities; computer companies don't just give hardware and software to charities. People who work full-time need money to live.

And I understand about the concern over excessive admin costs. And I do think people should be more direct about payments to charity; but it's a fact of life that they're not. If everyone were as considerate and compassionate as you are then I'm sure charities would neither need nor want to employ chuggers. Direct debit each month makes it much easier for people to give to charity, and thusly gets more money to charity.

subway · 23-05-2007 8:59am

youve really bought into this wholesale havent you?
i havent met one chugger on the street with as much conviction as you.

your argument sounds like the pitch these groups use to get people out on the street and chugging.

unfortunately, no-one else on here seems lkiely to own up to working for one of these groups, so may i suggest you take the job and report back to us with the pay scale?

howvever, i GUARANTEE you will not be signing up 25 people a week and very very soon you, along with evryone else on the street, will hate yourself

instigate · 23-05-2007 9:14am

Why do they feel the need to act like twats? Their approach to getting your attention is pathetic!!! It ranges from dancing to making pathethic remarks which i think is their way of trying to be humourous? Collecting for charity my a**e! Satans little helpers.*

*end of rant.

Fallen Seraph · 23-05-2007 9:57am

subway wrote:

youve really bought into this wholesale havent you?
i havent met one chugger on the street with as much conviction as you.

your argument sounds like the pitch these groups use to get people out on the street and chugging.

I must say that I'm still quite confused by this... I'm certainly getting the people not liking chuggers impression; I never thought that they were endeared to the people, but I really don't see what there is to have bought into... I mean I don't want to be going out and doing something morally wrong all summer, and I don't want to take money from charity all summer for no good reason... If I'm being misled about the whole thing then I really don't want in.. I just really can't see where my logic falls down or why people think it's morally wrong or a waste of time... I get why it's disliked; I understand that, but not why people think that it's wrong or that there's something to buy into... Am I just being naive?

BigTommyBomb · 23-05-2007 11:21am

The Times did a survey and 80% of people are against chuggers so you will be pissing the majority of people off just to get at a few. Kind of like spam.
The way the agencies fees work if somebody stops there direct debit before a year or so the charity actually loses money.
The idea of taking of commision off a charitable donation without declaring so (which chuggers never do) is disgusting and if you can't see the problem with that then good luck to you. Go off and work for them and if you come up and approach me you'll be getting a swift **** off.

Iago · 23-05-2007 11:33am

The main reason it's disliked is that it forces people to accept that they are greedy and selfish. Sure I can sit around and have conversations about how I'm going to "give something back" and set up a direct debit, or donate a few hours of my time to go on soup runs for the homeless or whatever, safe in the knowledge that I can forget all about it in an hour or two.

but if I'm out in public and I'm directly approached by a charity then I've no excuse, the form is there ready to be filled in and signed. It'll take less than two minutes of my time, and maybe an hours wages a month, and that's it done. but the truth is that I don't really want to make that donation, I'll dress it up by saying that I think it's "unfair" to give to a charity where my donation goes to paying someone on the street as opposed to the people who need it most. I'll sit in the bar later and spend more in one night than I'd have to donate in 6 months and laugh with my friends about the chugger that tried to stop me today, and explain that it's not that I'm not charitable, just that I like to do it my own way and give it directly to the charity involved. Which I'll forget about until the next time I'm stopped by a charity worker and I have to face up to the truth again.

I don't care, it's not my child or my family, I work hard for my money. Let them get a job, or find a way out for themselves. It's not my fault they're in that situation, and certainly not my job to get them out of it. It's all about #1 in this world, if it was me nobody would be looking out for me.

eth0_ · 23-05-2007 11:34am

Fallen Seraph wrote:

And in rebuttal to the dislike of the tactics; one should certainly be able to pass by a chugger with a clear conscience if they consider themselves to be giving an adequate amount of their earnings to charity.....

EXCUSE ME? Are you actually saying the only way I can refuse to engage in conversation with one of those chugger d1ckheads is if I already give money to charity? Get off your high horse!

No one *has* to give money to charity, that's why we live in a democracy.

Chuggers are parasites. The majority of them don't give two hoots about their charity, they're just students who are rubbing their hands at earning €12 an hour without having to work in mc donalds.

I would even go so far as to call them scum. They harrass people in the street. I have been grabbed by the arm, followed down the street (all the while being talked at), followed into a shop once.

I will *NEVER* give money to any charity that uses these people to get their money. A funnily enough, a lot of the charities who use chuggers - such as Concern, sitting up on Camden st. in their opulent *marble clad building* - have been shown that a very small amount of funds raised actually go to those who need it in Africa!

And as someone already pointed out....no way will you sign up 25 people a week. Most people think you chuggers are scum of the earth, and those that do get caught will either give you a false account number, or will cancel the direct debit.

I read recently that it takes about 6 months of one persons average tenner a month contributions to pay a chugger for one day...that's before any money goes to those the charity purports to help. Does that sound like charity to you?

dicebar · 23-05-2007 11:50am

Good luck with the charity work, a worthwhile job indeed.

Expect to encounter the kind of responses you've met here on the street too.

You're raising money for charitys, getting more people more involved in charitys and bothering people on the streets for a moment of their day.
Go for it.

Cake Fiend · 23-05-2007 12:01pm

Iago wrote:

The main reason it's disliked is that it forces people to accept that they are greedy and selfish.

Nope. It's because being asked 'do you have a minute for Concern?' or whatever by some grinning, dancing buffoon 6 times a day, 5 days a week is infuriating, particularly when said buffoon has asked you the same question several times in that same week, or possibly in that same day.

I give money to charity on a regular basis (of my own choice rather than via hard-sell), so I have no guilt about walking by these annoying bastards.

DarkJager · 23-05-2007 12:02pm

To be honest, while your intentions are good OP, you are letting yourself in for a job which may end up causing you harm. People are getting more and more annoyed by these brash loud idiots in the middle of the street, waving their buckets and generally causing a nuisance. It goes from one end of the scale (quiet people who will stand there waiting for someone to put money in) to the other end (loudmouthed "off the wall" types who practically attack you for money).

I can't tell you the amount of chuggers I've actually had to assault to get them to **** off away from me. They use tactics like grabbing your arm, or standing in your way multiple times as you try to move away. Don't end up like one of these guys if you do it, because sooner or later somebody will feed you a headbutt.

To the poster who thinks people are obliged to give money to chuggers or by direct debit to charity, you'd want to take off your rose tinted glasses. Not eveybody has the time or funds to be acting goody two shoes to some ****ing charity that takes half the profits for itself. I personally have not time for charitys in any shape or form, call me cold hearted or whatever you want, but its personal choice and something that everyone is entitled to.

tallaght01 · 23-05-2007 12:04pm

BigTommyBomb wrote:

The way the agencies fees work if somebody stops there direct debit before a year or so the charity actually loses money.

Do the chuggers work for agencies? I thought they worked for the charity itself?

Anyway, I agree with the OP for a start. I ****in hate chuggers. i really really do. I hate the way there's 5 of them in a street and they all approach you within about 1 minute of each other. It pisses me off no end. I could never retain my dignity, knowing that I'm annoying 99% of the people I come into contact with at work.
However, I think to describe it as "immoral" is wrong. Lots of people earn their living from charities. I'm on the exec of a medium sized charity in the UK, and we pay good wages to high quality staff in our office (we don't employ chuggers) because they bring in a lot of money.
There is simply nothing immoral about collecting money for charity. BUT, they are as annoying as ****! :P

Dudess · 23-05-2007 12:06pm

Iago wrote:

The main reason it's disliked is that it forces people to accept that they are greedy and selfish

Complete bullsh!t. The methods chuggers use are appalling. When I'm walking down the street minding my own business, I have every right not to have my time hijacked by a stranger. Chuggers are an absolute disgrace the way they force themselves on people. And they act like undignified idiots. OP, seriously don't do it - you'll be letting yourself in for some major (and frankly justified) abuse.

A couple of years ago, a girl stopped me on the street in Cork. She was quite full-on (I'd even go as far as to say aggressive) and I was so bloody nice to her and signed up immediately. Last year, a guy knocked on my door in Dublin and practically barged in. Again I was really nice to him and signed up straight away.
I was such an idiot on both occasions. I was under absolutely no obligation not to tell both of them to fu(k off.

BlitzKrieg · 23-05-2007 12:17pm

Fallen Seraph wrote:

I just can't see the difference between making money for starving kids in africa and making money for ben dunne...

The difference is that the *charity* brought in by chuggers isnt much larger then the charity multinationals and big chains claim they donate (well I know from my brief time in Starbucks that they at least claim this) off hand for their pr. Makes me question if i am doing more good buying that pizza instead.

Fallen Seraph · 23-05-2007 1:44pm

EXCUSE ME? Are you actually saying the only way I can refuse to engage in conversation with one of those chugger d1ckheads is if I already give money to charity? Get off your high horse!

Nope. Never said tha. Sorry. I said that the only way one can refuse a conversation with a clear conscience is to be confident that you are doing all you can for charity as it is.

No one *has* to give money to charity, that's why we live in a democracy.

No, no one *has* to give money to charity; but if you'd like to explain to me how it is justifiable to be able to spend any money on grafton street but be unable to give 20 euro a month to charity I'll be glad to tell you why you don't deserve to have been born into a such a rich democracy.

I will certainly conceed that following people into shops, making physical contact with people and physically preventing the closing of front doors is completely unacceptable, and frankly if any of those things occur the guards should be called; but not withstanding such behaviour I really don't think that anyone in this thread has specified why exactly their behaviour is so unacceptable? Does anyone nearly hit the guy who dresses up as a cow in grafton street? Is he not being much louder and more of an eye-sore than chuggers? Frankly, I don't think Iago has been rebutted adequately...

After further reflection on the subject, I'm forced to take the opinion that chuggers probably do do more harm than good, because I have found my initial logic to be flawed. I reasoned that the fact that charities hire chuggers is evidence that they bring in more money than they take out. The fallacy here is that not all charities hire chuggers, and so it's entirely conceivable that what in fact happens is that chugger hiring charities drain the resources of other charities. And, frankly, after a quick mental calculation the profit margins do seem rather slim indeed...

However, this thread has been, with some exceptions, incredibly unhelpful, and filled with non-answers.

Thomas_S_Hunterson · 23-05-2007 1:54pm

Fallen Seraph wrote:

No, no one *has* to give money to charity; but if you'd like to explain to me how it is justifiable to be able to spend any money on grafton street but be unable to give 20 euro a month to charity I'll be glad to tell you why you don't deserve to have been born into a such a rich democracy.

It's obviously not a case of being unable.

It could be a case of:
1. Not wanting to pay a chugger ~30% commission on what you donate, along with the administration costs etc. etc. etc. leaving very little of the money actually doing any good.

2. Not ageeing with the charity's methods of accumulating donators

3. Not agreeing with the dreadful state of affairs of Irish charities, who, having grown rapidly, have found themselves unable to cope with administering effectively what is a company due to managerial inexperience.

4. Not wanting to give money to charity.

yournamehere · 23-05-2007 2:14pm

1) I think its bad taking taking the money from the charity. Volunteer if you want to do work for charity, like thousands in Ireland do,

2) Chuggers are abrasive and annoying as hell and there's like a zillion of them already so you'll be hard pressed to get people to sign up, so in essence you'll be taking money without producing any kind of result. Pretty awful.....

Fallen Seraph · 23-05-2007 2:28pm

sean_keevey wrote:

It's obviously not a case of being unable.

truth be told, I thought I was addressing a different question. The statement regarded giving money to charity. Not to chuggers. I've repeatedly stated that I think it's a much better idea to give money to charities that don't incur such over-heads.

2) Chuggers are abrasive and annoying as hell and there's like a zillion of them already so you'll be hard pressed to get people to sign up, so in essence you'll be taking money without producing any kind of result.

the fact that some companies hire a chugger agency is, I feel, a pretty clear indicator that chuggers bring in more money than they take out.
I'll agree that the net amount of money going to *all* charities probably decreases due to chuggers, but I really don't think that the assertion that chuggers take money from the charities they work for makes sense.... Why would the charities hire them if they did?

edit: Also; ever think that this might be what's on a chugger's mind when they are being intensely annoying? They're probably thinking that if they don't earn more money for charity than they're being paid then they are indeed going to end up taking money from charity; which is probably pretty strong motivation to do whatever you can to get the money.

instigate · 23-05-2007 2:51pm

To be honest op, you sound like you'll fit right in with your fellow chuggers. The last part of this post really is ridiculous, "ever think this might be what's on a chugger's mind when they are being intensely annoying"?? Give it a rest man. If you can sleep better at night thinking like this so be it. The fact of the matter is you will get paid to hassle the public. How many people have fond memories of having to pass by a street full of chuggers? Very few.

Charity Mugger

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