Ben really born on the island?

h0stn0tf0und · 19-04-2007 4:44pm #1

Juliet said every pregnant woman on the island had died except for Claire. She had developed a treatment that kept them alive.

Ben told Locke he was born on the island, long before there was a treatment. How did Ben come into being!?

Sad Professor · 19-04-2007 4:50pm

Well either the pregnancy problems started after Ben was born...or...Ben was conceived off island. Juliet believed the problem was with those who conceived on the island, which is why Aaron and perhaps Alex were ok.

ZiabR · 19-04-2007 5:00pm

h0stn0tf0und wrote:

Juliet said every pregnant woman on the island had died except for Claire. She had developed a treatment that kept them alive.

Ben told Locke he was born on the island, long before there was a treatment. How did Ben come into being!?

Yeah mate, as my mate the Professor has said

. The women that become pregnant while on the Island died, but Claire/Rousseu were pregnant before they got to the Island. The fact that Juliet is only on the Island just over 3 years, would indicate that the problem with pregnancy on the Island is a new enough one. Ben is late 30's maybe 40. The problem may not have existed back when he was born.

matt-dublin · 19-04-2007 5:07pm

watch the episode...
had died during childbirth or soon afterwords.

Killaqueen!!! · 19-04-2007 5:58pm

Also we don't know if Ben was telling the truth but I think he was because he's the leader (bar, perhaps Jacob) so it would make sense, he doesn't want anyone to go home, and he seemed really jealous of Lockes 'connection' with the island.

So he was born on the island.

A - the fertility problem is a new one
B - he was conceived off the island and/or he and his mother were given treatmant and it worked
C - he's special

It could be C. Also in group C are Locke, Walt etc. IMO! Those that seem to have a connection with the island.

What I'm wondering is - if Ben were not protected by the fences, what would smokey think of him? If smokey killed Eko for not repenting his sins what the hell would it do to Ben? Here's hoping we see something like that!

bytesize · 19-04-2007 6:19pm

Sad Professor wrote:

Well either the pregnancy problems started after Ben was born...or...Ben was conceived off island. Juliet believed the problem was with those who conceived on the island, which is why Aaron and perhaps Alex were ok.

not true, juliet had said they thought it was anyone who was giving birth on the island, afaik they had originally thought it was when you conceived on the island but then ethan had been giving clare the injections so she would be able to give birth and survive.

when juliet had wanted to leave, they wouldnt let her cos she had not created a cure for this yet, as you saw when the woman died trying to give birth. then when she stayed they had finally come up with a cure, in which they gave to clare.

so either the writers made a doozy and messed up stories, as alex is alive and ben too, or the problem was only around since. either that or theres something we dont know yet.

**i cant remember weather alex was born before or after rossou got to the island.

badgerbadger · 19-04-2007 7:48pm

its possible that Ben's mother died and he survived

quickbeam · 19-04-2007 7:55pm

bytesize wrote:

not true, juliet had said they thought it was anyone who was giving birth on the island, afaik they had originally thought it was when you conceived on the island but then ethan had been giving clare the injections so she would be able to give birth and survive.

Juliet said this in her conversation with Jack, but I don't think we can assume that what she said here was the truth. I think it was part of the story she agreed with Ben. In fact, I don't think we can guarantee anything that the Others tell the Losties is truth at all - including Ben's comment about being born on the island.

bytesize wrote:

**i cant remember weather alex was born before or after rossou got to the island.

According to Danielle, she was pregnant when she arrived on the island and gave birth shortly afterwards.

ZiabR · 19-04-2007 8:38pm

badgerbadger wrote:

its possible that Ben's mother died and he survived

For some reason i don't think so. I think this problem with the pregnancy has only occurred over the past few years.

Faith · 19-04-2007 8:44pm

Big spoiler ahoy:

Apparently we'll get to meet Ben's mum & dad in 3x20. It's not specified whether it's in a flashback or not, but I presume it is. Source: http://www.spoilerfix.com/lost.php.

ZiabR · 19-04-2007 8:47pm

Faith wrote:

Big spoiler ahoy:
Apparently we'll get to meet Ben's mum & dad in 3x20. It's not specified whether it's in a flashback or not, but I presume it is. Source: http://www.spoilerfix.com/lost.php.

Nice Faith, cheers

Stuxnet · 22-04-2007 10:21pm

Faith wrote:

Big spoiler ahoy:
Apparently we'll get to meet Ben's mum & dad in 3x20. It's not specified whether it's in a flashback or not, but I presume it is. Source: http://www.spoilerfix.com/lost.php.

also this epidode is said

to bring new meaning to the term "born on the island"

Hyzepher · 23-04-2007 12:13pm

I'm not convinced that he was actually born on the island. In fact I'm still not sure who was on the island first - Dharma or the Others (if in fact they are two seperate groups).

I need to review teh episodes but has Ben actually said he was "born" on the island or just that he has been there all his life.

He might be referring to beign spiritually born?

ZiabR · 23-04-2007 12:17pm

Hyzepher wrote:

I'm not convinced that he was actually born on the island. In fact I'm still not sure who was on the island first - Dharma or the Others (if in fact they are two seperate groups).

I need to review teh episodes but has Ben actually said he was "born" on the island or just that he has been there all his life.

He might be referring to beign spiritually born?

Ben did say he was born on the Island. He also said that, " not many people can say that". I do believe Dharma were on the Island first and the built they tunnel system we know as the hatches. They were most likely experimenting on people and something went wrong.

I am not sure if the Others we know are directly connected to Dharma.

Mellor · 23-04-2007 2:07pm

bytesize wrote:

not true, juliet had said they thought it was anyone who was giving birth on the island, afaik they had originally thought it was when you conceived on the island but then ethan had been giving clare the injections so she would be able to give birth and survive.

when juliet had wanted to leave, they wouldnt let her cos she had not created a cure for this yet, as you saw when the woman died trying to give birth. then when she stayed they had finally come up with a cure, in which they gave to clare.

It was never explained on the show because it was assumed that people could follow it.
Juilette said to Ben that it happens at conception, we can assume this is true as it was only the others on the island at this time.

Juilette told Jack about the "cure" they used to give allow claire to give birth, this was to make it seam tht they were being friendly to the losties but secretive. But we know from the conversation with Ben that they actually put an implant in her to make her sick and so they could save the day.
I have seen alot of posts on the subject that appeared to mess this issue up.

ZiabR · 23-04-2007 2:10pm

I think Claire would have given birth to Aaron on the Island without any problems, even if the Others had not got involved. It only effects the woman and babies concieved on the Island.

Sad Professor · 23-04-2007 2:20pm

Mellor wrote:

It was never explained on the show because it was assumed that people could follow it.
Juilette said to Ben that it happens at conception, we can assume this is true as it was only the others on the island at this time.

Juilette told Jack about the "cure" they used to give allow claire to give birth, this was to make it seam tht they were being friendly to the losties but secretive. But we know from the conversation with Ben that they actually put an implant in her to make her sick and so they could save the day.
I have seen alot of posts on the subject that appeared to mess this issue up.

Agreed but I don't think the implant was specifically to make her sick. They couldn't have planned all that so far in advance. I think it monitored her during the pregnancy and then they were able to make further use of it to help integrate Juliet in with the lostaways. But I don't think making Claire sick was it's original purpose.

ZiabR · 23-04-2007 2:52pm

Sad Professor wrote:

Agreed but I don't think the implant was specifically to make her sick. They couldn't have planned all that so far in advance. I think it monitored her during the pregnancy and then they were able to make further use of it to help integrate Juliet in with the lostaways. But I don't think making Claire sick was it's original purpose.

Possibily but i dont think claire needed help in the first place. She concieved off the island.

Sad Professor · 23-04-2007 2:59pm

Yeah but by monitoring her they could discover why she's ok and possibly discover a cure. At the very least Claire probably proved Juliet's theory that the problem starts at conception.

ZiabR · 23-04-2007 3:08pm

Aye mate true, excuse my momentary brain fart.

Killaqueen!!! · 24-04-2007 8:50pm

Wek *know* that Claire had an implant inserted in her. But what does this mean? What sort of implant allows them to monitor her if that is the case? I know I'm very picky but do the Others have that sort of technology?

It is a likely explanation though, because I don't think the others would have planned the..eh...plan that long ago, just so that they had an excuse to get one of their people to seem like they are helping the Losties.

timisaprick · 24-04-2007 9:18pm

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

Also we don't know if Ben was telling the truth but I think he was because he's the leader (bar, perhaps Jacob) so it would make sense, he doesn't want anyone to go home, and he seemed really jealous of Lockes 'connection' with the island.

So he was born on the island.

A - the fertility problem is a new one
B - he was conceived off the island and/or he and his mother were given treatmant and it worked
C - he's special

It could be C. Also in group C are Locke, Walt etc. IMO! Those that seem to have a connection with the island.

What I'm wondering is - if Ben were not protected by the fences, what would smokey think of him? If smokey killed Eko for not repenting his sins what the hell would it do to Ben? Here's hoping we see something like that!

What if smokey is god? and all this on the island is just purgatory thats my bet

ZiabR · 24-04-2007 9:57pm

timisaprick wrote:

What if smokey is god? and all this on the island is just purgatory thats my bet

Purgatory has been mentioned before many many times and the writers have replied by saying, NO it is not purgatory.

MOH · 25-04-2007 10:54am

Sad Professor wrote:

Yeah but by monitoring her they could discover why she's ok and possibly discover a cure. At the very least Claire probably proved Juliet's theory that the problem starts at conception.

Indeed. And if the Others now somehow know that Sun is pregnant, that would explaining the timing of Juliet 'infiltrating' the camp. She could possibly get more data from Sun since she's at an earlier stage of pregnancy.

Also, given that Sun's fake kidnapping has been mentioned a couple of times recently, I wouldn't be surprised if it happens for real when the Others return 'in a week', possibly either with Juliet's help, or they'll 'kidnap' Juliet at the same time.

ZiabR · 25-04-2007 11:37am

MOH wrote:

Indeed. And if the Others now somehow know that Sun is pregnant, that would explaining the timing of Juliet 'infiltrating' the camp. She could possibly get more data from Sun since she's at an earlier stage of pregnancy.

Also, given that Sun's fake kidnapping has been mentioned a couple of times recently, I wouldn't be surprised if it happens for real when the Others return 'in a week', possibly either with Juliet's help, or they'll 'kidnap' Juliet at the same time.

What makes you think, they would need to kidnap Juliet?

MOH · 25-04-2007 12:16pm

logik wrote:

What makes you think, they would need to kidnap Juliet?

I don't think they'd need to, I think she's on their side.

But I think everyone's suspicious of her anyway now. If the Others did take Sun then
- Juliet can stay, and pretend she knows nothing about it, but everyone will believe she had something to do with it;
- she can leave with them, in which case nobody, including Jack, will ever trust her again;
- she can appear to be taken against her will (possibly appear to even try to defend Sun), which might gain her a bit more trust among the Losties camp, depending on how convincing it was, they might need to hurt her a bit.

It's the only way she can get back to the Others without burning her bridges with Jack.

jArgHA · 25-04-2007 12:23pm

MOH wrote:

I don't think they'd need to, I think she's on their side.

But I think everyone's suspicious of her anyway now. If the Others did take Sun then
- Juliet can stay, and pretend she knows nothing about it, but everyone will believe she had something to do with it;
- she can leave with them, in which case nobody, including Jack, will ever trust her again;
- she can appear to be taken against her will (possibly appear to even try to defend Sun), which might gain her a bit more trust among the Losties camp, depending on how convincing it was, they might need to hurt her a bit.

It's the only way she can get back to the Others without burning her bridges with Jack.

I am 99% sure that in an upcoming episode Juliet will show that she is siding with the Losties. My bet is that there will be a build up in which we are led to believe that Juliet is helping Ben in something nasty (such as kidnapping Sun), but at the very end there will be a turn-around and she will double-cross Ben.

ZiabR · 25-04-2007 12:29pm

jArgHA wrote:

I am 99% sure that in an upcoming episode Juliet will show that she is siding with the Losties. My bet is that there will be a build up in which we are led to believe that Juliet is helping Ben in something nasty (such as kidnapping Sun), but at the very end there will be a turn-around and she will double-cross Ben.

Yup i thought this since Ep 16. She will turn out to work with the losties and will cross Ben. I mean he has been evil and an ass too her.

Mellor · 27-04-2007 6:08pm

Sad Professor wrote:

Agreed but I don't think the implant was specifically to make her sick. They couldn't have planned all that so far in advance. I think it monitored her during the pregnancy and then they were able to make further use of it to help integrate Juliet in with the lostaways. But I don't think making Claire sick was it's original purpose.

No, they said this is what it was for, specificly.
Ben said it to juilette, something along the lines of

We've activated the implant in Clair, she should be symptomatic in the next 40 hours

Killaqueen!!! · 27-04-2007 6:46pm

Mellor wrote:

No, they said this is what it was for, specificly.
Ben said it to juilette, something along the lines of

I still find it hard to believe that they planned this so far back...it doesn't really make sense.

Sad Professor · 27-04-2007 7:06pm

I think the key word is "symptomatic". Perhaps her sickness was an after-effect of the implant's activation, i.e. she would start showing symptoms of whatever the implant was doing. Maybe it still was designed to make her sick but I don't think Ben knew all along he was going to use it to help Juliet.

Didn't Ethan install the implant at the Staff? Perhaps Juliet was telling the truth about him working on his own, which might explain why the implant was never used before now. Alex seemed to think he was going to kill Claire.

Ben really born on the island?

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