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Gas boiler problem

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  • 15-01-2006 3:35am
    #1
    Neil_Sedaka
    Registered Users Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭


    I have a Ferroli Tempra boiler that heats both the rads and the water.
    I seem to have to pressurise the system to 1 bar from a valve in the hot press every day or two as the pressure drops to about zero.

    Also, the rads seem to be cooler on the bottom than the top.

    The other thing that I’m concerned about is the boiler cycle, it gets up to temp, cuts off for a few seconds and then fires up again for another couple of minutes.

    Could I have a leak? And if so, how do I find it?
    I’ve examined all the rads, pipes that I can see, but don’t see anything obvious.

    Thanks.


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    #2
    Neil_Sedaka
    Registered Users Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭Neil_Sedaka


    Anyone any ideas?


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    #3
    Corkey123
    Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭Corkey123


    You shouldn't have to re-pressurise the system as frequently as you say. I suspect it is a leak somewhere and you system is disapating the pressure some way. Have you pressurised the system without turning on the heating and then see if the pressure reduces. This will indicate if the loss of pressure is due to a leak or the system heating in some way.

    Sorry not the most help but it could point you in the right direction


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    #4
    Judean Reg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭Judean Reg


    Sounds like you have a leak alright, as you have a pressurised system this means that you have a closed system which effectively means that the same water should be circulating round the system at all times and you should only very occasionally have to top it up (i.e. once a year or so). The most likely spot for the leak would be under your floorboards* (assuming you have them) down stairs. Is there any way you could take up a section of floorboards and crawl around underneath?

    It's probably best to address this issue before you try to resolve the other problems you are having as fixing this may fix the other problems too.


    *(I say this as you would notice it elsewhere due to mould etc developing where the leak is if it was above ground).


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    #5
    Neil_Sedaka
    Registered Users Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭Neil_Sedaka


    Thanks for the replies,

    I have solid concrete floors downstairs with a semi-solid wood covering and laminate flooring upstairs.

    Is there any kind of meter that I could hire to find a leak maybe?

    Thanks.


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    #6
    savemejebus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,526 ✭✭✭savemejebus


    is the boiler making any clanking noises? If so it could mean the heat exchanger is going/gone. was having a similar problem and that was the diagnosis


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    #7
    Neil_Sedaka
    Registered Users Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭Neil_Sedaka


    No, no clanking noise. I just had it serviced in December and the engineer said it was in good shape.


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    #8
    Neil_Sedaka
    Registered Users Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭Neil_Sedaka


    Just found out that the next door neighbour has the same problem, re-pressurise the system every day and he also has two downstairs rads that don't heat at all:eek:

    Strange!!


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    #9
    beldin
    Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭beldin


    Is there possibly water coming out of the pressure release pipe on the boiler.
    There should be a small pipe coming out of the boiler going outside to release pressure if it goes too high.
    The valves themselves sometimes give trouble.


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    #10
    JamesM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭JamesM


    Neil_Sedaka wrote:
    Just found out that the next door neighbour has the same problem, re-pressurise the system every day and he also has two downstairs rads that don't heat at all:eek:

    Strange!!
    How old is the system ? Is the boiler in the house ?
    Jim.


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    #11
    Neil_Sedaka
    Registered Users Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭Neil_Sedaka


    beldin wrote:
    Is there possibly water coming out of the pressure release pipe on the boiler.
    There should be a small pipe coming out of the boiler going outside to release pressure if it goes too high.
    The valves themselves sometimes give trouble.

    No discharge that I'm aware of, I'll keep an eye on it though, thanks.

    Jim, The system is wall mounted in the kitchen and about 5 years old (was installed when the houses were built)


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    #12
    JamesM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭JamesM


    Neil_Sedaka wrote:
    No discharge that I'm aware of, I'll keep an eye on it though, thanks.

    Jim, The system is wall mounted in the kitchen and about 5 years old (was installed when the houses were built)
    Neil, Just asked on the chance that it was an older system and the boiler was outside. Pipes could have been leaking underground. Not that - but it still looks like a leak somewhere :eek:
    Jim.


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    #13
    Neil_Sedaka
    Registered Users Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭Neil_Sedaka


    beldin wrote:
    Is there possibly water coming out of the pressure release pipe on the boiler.
    There should be a small pipe coming out of the boiler going outside to release pressure if it goes too high.
    The valves themselves sometimes give trouble.

    Think you might be on the money there afterall.
    I connected a hose and container to the pipe and in the past hour or so I've collected a small amount of water. A plumber recently told me that all it takes to pressurise the system from 0 to 1 bar is a pint or so, so the valve could well be dodgy.

    I noticed that the concrete path below the overflow pipe was stained white, had a look at the neighbours and theirs is the same!


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    #14
    beldin
    Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭beldin


    The problem now is that the valve has gotten contaminated with the water and probably will not close itself properly. They start to rust and have to be replaced. Mine is still leaking out of the pressure valve but I have put an automatic top up valve on the input . So while water leaks out at one stage it is topped up at the other end.
    If your boiler is due to be serviced , ask if they can check it out. The valve itself should be cheap and only needs installing.
    Here the valve is about 10 sterling. Fitting should take about an hour or less.
    http://www.pricerightheating.com/Shop/ShopProducts.asp?fdShopProductShopProduct2Id=201


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    #15
    Neil_Sedaka
    Registered Users Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭Neil_Sedaka


    Cheers beldin, thanks for the advice and taking the time to post the link;)


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    #16
    JamesM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭JamesM


    beldin wrote:
    The problem now is that the valve has gotten contaminated with the water and probably will not close itself properly. They start to rust and have to be replaced. Mine is still leaking out of the pressure valve but I have put an automatic top up valve on the input . So while water leaks out at one stage it is topped up at the other end.
    If your boiler is due to be serviced , ask if they can check it out. The valve itself should be cheap and only needs installing.
    Here the valve is about 10 sterling. Fitting should take about an hour or less.
    http://www.pricerightheating.com/Shop/ShopProducts.asp?fdShopProductShopProduct2Id=201
    If the valve you have is similar to the one shown above, and the leak is from the threaded exit of the valve (not around the top), then you can just screw in the new valve. Otherwise the whole system will have to be drained and will cost a lot in a plumber's time.
    Jim.


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    #17
    The Iba
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭The Iba



    Hi

    I thinkk I have the same problem as you. I have the same boiler, Ferroli Tampra. Last week when I tried to light it the pilot light would not come on. I noticed underneath the boiler that there were some instructions saying that the pressure should be one bar. Mine is not, barely going over zero. Can anyone advise me what to do. How to get the boiler and pilot light back on. Been freezing this weekend with no heat.
    By the way I also have a Gas Fire and that is working ok.

    Regards

    Iba


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    #18
    Neil_Sedaka
    Registered Users Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭Neil_Sedaka


    You should have a Top Up valve (perhaps in the hot press) and you need to open this valve and let water into the system.
    Open the valve slowly and close it when the pressure is 1 Bar or just below.

    The valve will probably be on a length of flexible pipe, ie. not copper or rigid plastic pipe.
    Mine has a black T shape handle on a length of flexible steel tube.

    See how you get on and let us know.

    Good luck.


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    #19
    jd
    Registered Users Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭jd


    There should be valve to repressurise the system-probably in the hot press. Did you get an instruction manual for the boiler?
    jd


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    #20
    The Iba
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭The Iba


    Thanks for your replies.

    Unfortunatly all the pipes in my hot press seem to be rigid and are copper.

    Alos I have no manual - didnt get one with the boiler - however I have looked on the Ferroli web site to try and get one and guess what - the link dosent work right - will phone them tomorrow.

    Regards

    The Iba


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    #21
    JamesM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭JamesM


    The Iba wrote:
    Thanks for your replies.

    Unfortunatly all the pipes in my hot press seem to be rigid and are copper.

    Alos I have no manual - didnt get one with the boiler - however I have looked on the Ferroli web site to try and get one and guess what - the link dosent work right - will phone them tomorrow.

    Regards

    The Iba
    The Ferroli manual will not show you where the valve is. You have to find it, in the hotpress or somewhere like that.
    Look back a couple of months for threads about topping up a system.
    Jim.


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    #22
    DublinWriter
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    Neil_Sedaka wrote:
    The other thing that I’m concerned about is the boiler cycle, it gets up to temp, cuts off for a few seconds and then fires up again for another couple of minutes.

    Could I have a leak? And if so, how do I find it?
    I’ve examined all the rads, pipes that I can see, but don’t see anything obvious.

    I have a similar problem and it's caused by low water pressure.

    The boiler is fed from the tank in the attic and I was told that who ever plumbed the house originally skimped by using 1/4" diametre pipes down from the tank, rather than 1/2". Obviously the wider the pipe coming down, the greater the pressure. I barely get over 1 bar on my boiler.

    The cutting out could just be the boiler hitting the threshold of the termostat. Even though I switch my boiler to "Hot Water", it will still cut out if I don't set the thermostat in the hall to it's highest settings.


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    #23
    JamesM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭JamesM


    JamesM wrote:
    The Ferroli manual will not show you where the valve is. You have to find it, in the hotpress or somewhere like that.
    Look back a couple of months for threads about topping up a system.
    Jim.
    Read some of the posts like the ones below. There are a few around mid Nov 2005.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054849893


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    #24
    jd
    Registered Users Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭jd


    JamesM wrote:
    The Ferroli manual will not show you where the valve is. You have to find it, in the hotpress or somewhere like that.
    True-our developers included extra info + photographs..
    jd


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    #25
    mcsd
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭mcsd


    After 2 years of suffering this infernal cutting in and cutting out of the boiler at it's own desire, we finally discovered the cause.
    It's something called a 'Venturi' in the vent pipe above the fan. It basically measures the balance of burned gases and Carbon Monoxide levels in this balance. Ours had cracked, due to possible overheating at some point in the past and thus obtained a 'mind of it's own. Since replacement the boiler is behaving like a dream........
    Our thanks to Messrs Hagim Gas, Dundalk, Co Louth


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    #26
    zuroph
    Registered Users Posts: 11,097 ✭✭✭✭zuroph


    Hi all, I have ferroli tempra 18 boiler, and since trying to fire it back up, ive hit a problem. the pump kicks in etc, but it doesnt spark, no pilot light. pressure is up to 2 bars. any ideas?


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    #27
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I wouldn't advise fault finding yourself as there is 240v running around the boiler, this is the information in your manual:

    External Call for Heat:
    The temperature regulator, built in or remote clock and room thermostat, if fitted, must all call for heat. This will cause the pump to run.

    Internal Call for Heat:
    C.H. flow temperature sensor, 88°C high limit all calling for heat. If both external and internal calls for heat are present the PMF03 PCB will energise.In demand the fan will go to high speed causing the air pressure switch to operate. If the overheat (100°C) stat is closed circuit the ignition will operate and the gas valve will be energised.
    The burner will light at ignition burner pressure, automatically range rating itself up to the heating load, then modulating down when the boiler reaches the desired
    flow temperature. When the central heating is satisfied the burner will go off and the fan stops i.e. stand-by mode.
    Basically listen for the fan, if the fan is not running then look at thermistor(temp sensor), 88c temp sensor, PCB or fan, if the fan is running then look at air pressure switch, overheat 100c or PCB, good luck, Gary


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    #28
    zuroph
    Registered Users Posts: 11,097 ✭✭✭✭zuroph


    thanks gary, will try. im killing power to it while im poking around btw


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    #29
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    zuroph wrote: »
    thanks gary, will try. im killing power to it while im poking around btw

    Good stuff, i would hate to be the last person you post to :eek:.


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    #30
    zuroph
    Registered Users Posts: 11,097 ✭✭✭✭zuroph


    taking a look, fan is not kicking in. I suspect the thermostat and knob is damaged, could this be the cause?


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    #31
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Might be, but it could be anything, without going hands on i couldn't tell you, but if it's the knob it's mechanical and easy to spot, if it's not the knob then proper faultfinding is required to identify the fault, it could cost you a fortune trying to identify the damaged component yourself.


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