Copyrights...

BEAT · 10-09-2003 11:51pm #1

All of my work is copyrighted. If you would like to make sure no one steals your work find out how to protect it!

HOW TO SECURE A COPY RIGHT:The way in which copyright protection is secured under the present law is frequently misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright (see following NOTE). There are, however, certain definite advantages to registration.

Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created, and a work is "created" when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time. "Copies" are material objects from which a work can be read or visually perceived either directly or with the aid of a machine or device, such as books, manuscripts, sheet music, film, videotape, or microfilm. "Phonorecords" are material objects embodying fixations of sounds (excluding, by statutory definition, motion picture soundtracks), such as cassette tapes, CD's, or LP's. Thus, for example, a song (the "work") can be fixed in sheet music ("copies") or in phonograph disks ("phonorecords"), or both.

If a work is prepared over a period of time, the part of the work that is fixed on a particular date constitutes the created work as of that date.

* * * *
NOTE: Before 1978, statutory copyright was generally secured by the act of publication with notice of copyright, assuming compliance with all other relevant statutory conditions. Works in the public domain on January 1, 1978 ( for example, works published without satisfying all conditions for securing statutory copyright under the Copyright Act of 1909) remain in the public domain under the current act.

Statutory copyright could also be secured before 1978 by the act of registration in the case of certain unpublished works and works eligible for ad interim copyright. The current Act automatically extends to full term (sectin 304 sets the term) copyright for all works including those subject to ad interim copyright if ad interim registration has been made on or before June 30, 1978.

Copyright Office
LM 455
Library of Congress
Washington, D.C. 20559-6000

jonno · 25-11-2003 2:07pm

Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created, and a work is "created" when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time. "Copies" are material objects from which a work can be read or visually perceived either directly or with the aid of a machine or device, such as books, manuscripts, sheet music, film, videotape, or microfilm. "Phonorecords" are material objects embodying fixations of sounds (excluding, by statutory definition, motion picture soundtracks), such as cassette tapes, CD's, or LP's. Thus, for example, a song (the "work") can be fixed in sheet music ("copies") or in phonograph disks ("phonorecords"), or both.

I'm not sure I understand it exactly.

Does it mean that once you finish a piece it is automatically copyrighted. I'm just confused as to how you actually prove you are the creator in the event it is poached or whatever. And how does it work with screenplays? When exactly is a screenplay

fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time

? I think thats whats causing the confusion

lordsippa · 09-02-2004 1:46am

AFAIK in the case of a piece such as a story etc the safest means of copyrighting it is to put a copy in an envelope and mail it to yourself and then never open it. As regards music I always understood that you had to register musical works, and that the labels would usually do it, hence it never really is an issue with your joe singer in whatever band.

I might be wrong. Will look it up and change this post accordingly.

Capt'n Midnight · 09-02-2004 2:11am

Not too sure what the right answer is
Lots of books have copyright notices in the cover - copy them.

BEAT - US copyright laws might be different to EU ones.

LORDSIPPA - I've heard this one before and I'm fairly certain that it does NOT have any legal standing other than as an indication of then the work was created. It is however about the Cheapest way to provide an argument of prior existance.

Technically you could generate a unique number from a digital copy of your work and print this in a newspaper. The idea being that it would be virtually impossible to produce another similar work with a similar number. Nice in theory, even if it worked there is the problem of newspapers not wanting to publish random numbers/codes in case used to pass secret messages to terrorists etc. Maybe a small add in Buy n Sell or similar ??

Shanannigan · 19-06-2004 8:47am

i've been informed by many musicians that the easiest way to copyright is to write out your work and seal it in an envelope then send it to yourself as a registered letter.... but don't open it... keep it safe.. it should only be opened in a court as evidence, should a dispute arise, that the documents in question are your work as the date of the posting and your name being on it proves it was in your possession on the day it was posted which would be before anyone else had it...

Gordon · 19-06-2004 10:36am

Originally posted by Shanannigan
i've been informed by many musicians that the easiest way to copyright is to write out your work and seal it in an envelope then send it to yourself as a registered letter.... but don't open it... keep it safe.. it should only be opened in a court as evidence, should a dispute arise, that the documents in question are your work as the date of the posting and your name being on it proves it was in your possession on the day it was posted which would be before anyone else had it...

Make sure to attach exact copies onto the outside of the envelope of the contents for your own reference and bad memory skillz.

BEAT · 06-05-2005 9:13pm

Because copyright laws differ around the world I have attached a link for info on copyrights in the UK:

http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/

For those who had questions on music copyrights, try this link:
http://www.cleverjoe.com/articles/music_copyright_law.html

And finally., Want to know what it all means? try this out:

http://whatiscopyright.org/

doonothing · 30-08-2005 1:33pm

would the fact that you've posted your work up here serve as a bit of evidence that you are the creator of the piece?

BEAT · 30-08-2005 1:57pm

no, it isnt even safe to post it up here if you havnt copyrighted it first, you are putting it in a public forum where anyone could copy it and claim as thier own.
Never post work you dont want stolen until you have copyrighted it first

The easiest way is putting a copy of it in the mail to yourself and using the PM date as your copyright date. Never open it and put a little note on the envelope to remind you whats inside

doonothing · 30-08-2005 2:22pm

but, in a court, could you not say, look at this website, it says i posted up the piece in question ages ago, no?

BEAT · 30-08-2005 4:01pm

no, because the other person can argue that you stole it and then posted it, without it being copyrighted anyone can claim it as thier own and say they wrote it whenever.

doonothing · 31-08-2005 5:18pm

ahh, i see..

thanks!

McFiddler · 05-12-2005 4:54pm

TurquoiseDream wrote:

no, because the other person can argue that you stole it and then posted it, without it being copyrighted anyone can claim it as thier own and say they wrote it whenever.

I don't understand at all! If they had no proof as to when they created it how could they steal your work? Another thing, couldn't they just claim the same thing with a copyrighted material!

homah_7ft · 23-12-2005 5:48pm

I would have thought the same. If it's posted here and under a passworded login would that not be the earliest recorded date.

The Bollox · 18-01-2006 1:00pm

so are there any rules against someone using a story posted up? I mean if I or anyone else posted up the basis for a piece of fiction to see what others think, is there anything to stop Joe Soap (sorry if that is the name of a user btw) from taking my story?

BEAT · 18-01-2006 7:04pm

no there isnt anything you can do,
the only way to really protect yourself is to have it copyrighted before you post it up so that if someone does steal it you can take them to court with the proof of copyright.
Posting unpublished work online is kinda freegame to those people out there lurking to steal and use as there own...yes they are out there.
I for example, copyright my work and when or if I decide to post it up I print out the post with the date and keep it all together.

HelterSkelter · 18-01-2006 7:12pm

I copyrighted a few songs. I put the CD and a print out of the lyrics & chords into a envelope and sent it by registered post to myself.

What would happen if someone stole your work and made a pile of money from it? If you could prove it was your work would you get all the money back from them? Or a percentage?

BEAT · 19-01-2006 4:43am

you would sue them for copyright infringment and get all of the money they made plus possibly more depending on thier assets and they would get fined and sent to jail most likley.

The Bollox · 20-01-2006 12:18pm

I read the OP and I couldn't see how one would go about copyrighting something. I mean do you go to a patton office or something?

and does it cost much to copyright a piece?

Talliesin · 20-01-2006 12:29pm

homah_7ft wrote:

I would have thought the same. If it's posted here and under a passworded login would that not be the earliest recorded date.

That could be enough, but you'd have to be able to show that the dates where accurate. Certainly it would be possible for someone with access to the database to fake a post.

As such, posting yourself a copy is probably a safe bet.

Ham Ahoy! · 10-02-2006 7:19pm

if someone can answer this, basically, all I need to do is write Copyright [Year] [My name here] on the bottom of an essay or something, and the work is credited as mine?

jaydeluxe · 25-04-2006 12:37pm

Posting yourself your work is NOT proof of copyright. Ask any legal person. Especially an entertainment lawyer. Most will tell you the post office probably invented this urban myth.

This thread is full of incorrect and misleading information.

MagnumForce · 14-05-2006 1:00pm

Ham Ahoy! wrote:

if someone can answer this, basically, all I need to do is write Copyright [Year] [My name here] on the bottom of an essay or something, and the work is credited as mine?

Eh no. Think about it, you could have written that date whenever the hell you liked, you could have wrote it yesterday and then put a date of 23rd June 1998.

Registered post is about the only reliable way as the dates built into the programming of any electronic storage can be falsified if you know how. i mean **** as far as i know, if you set the clock on your computer to whatever date and time you want and them save your work, it'll put that date and time as the "Date Created", same with burning to a CD or DVD.

The irish copyright system is quite interesting, I do like the way you do not need to pay and have your works registered, but this could lead to alot of confusion and problems since there is then no offical record of who copyrighted what when. Registered post WILL be accepted as evidence in court.

But in fairness if someone did steal your work, theyre gonna have a much harder time convincng a court that they wrote it first than you would.

And if you think about it, how many copyright issues do you know of in Ireland? not very many I bet, so i suppose our system is working...

rorypoet · 19-05-2006 3:04am

Hi all,

I have just joined BOARDS. I write poems and am working on my first novel. I find the topic on copyright very interesting and an important subject for all aspiring writers. I like the way you share info and help each other in such matters. Good on you all.

Just wanted to say Hi and hope I get to share some of my COPYRIGHTED work with you all.

Rory P Cunningham...............Donegal, Ireland

TerrorFirmer · 19-05-2006 9:01am

Hi Rory,

Nice to see a new member, will look forward to seeing your work! Hope you enjoy your stay here

djeddy · 21-10-2006 11:54am

does the copyright logo (c) after your song words or script auto protect your work ?

Insect Overlord · 05-11-2006 10:28pm

I've been writing for nearly 2 years now. I showed my stuff to some of the lads at school, and put a few poems on my bebo page, but after reading this thread I'm afraid to post anything on boards. Is there actually much of a risk of someone trying to steal my poetry?

Calvin141170 · 30-11-2006 2:05pm

Hi All,

I'm new here -- but figured this might be a good place to get my feet wet, so to speak.

As I understand it you automatically own the copyright to any work you create as soon as you create it -- unless you create it as part of your job, in which case the rights belong to your employer.

Basically you don't have to do anything to secure copyright in your work -- it's something you already have under Irish law.

Take a look at the Irish Patents Office What is Copyright page for a brief overview.

If you're short of some light bedtime reading you can see the full text of the COPYRIGHT AND RELATED RIGHTS ACT, 2000 on the Irish Statute Book website

The (C) symbol, name and date at the bottom / cover of a piece of work is merely a polite reminder to the reader that you own the copyright -- it is not required for you to own the copyright in the work, and neither is any form of registration.

What this thread is really talking about is the ability to prove that you created the work if somebody else steals it. That's more complicated, but in general for day-to-day work I tend not to lose any sleep over it.

Officially registering a piece of work with a copyright registrar gives you proof that may stand up in a court of law should you ever bring a copyright dispute to trial. The "registered" post route may also offer similar proof (if you choose this route maybe sending yourself a copy of the electronic file on CD would be cheaper than mailing a 600 page printed manuscript).

If your work is of potentially high and/or of lasting commercial value then it may be worth considering some form of registration, etc. -- but generally, in my experience it hasn't been necessary.

Cheers,

Calvin!

BTW -- when you post to these forums you automatically own the copyright to your posts (there's probably a specific clause in the T&Cs of the site that grants the site permission to archive / quote /use posts, but if anybody else does, technically they're breaching your copyright)... at least I think that's how it works!

Then again, I have been wrong occasionally....;)

hillynicky · 22-12-2006 4:39pm

If you need your copyrights filed & done correctly.. Do some research..

Overheal · 13-02-2007 9:31am

What if you open your sealed package for proof in court? Its still copyrighted isnt it? As you can claim that it was presented as evidence in a Court of Law?

EDIT: I'll do you one better. Ive used this method with some of my college professors to prove my work was completed on time.
If you can show the properties of a computer file; show that it was last modified on xx/xx/xx would that be a proof of copyright? If you could keep the file safe and unmodified of course (say on a flashdisk or CD-ROM).
I suppose the inherent problem comes from being able to modify your PC clock

is there a third party service you could use to verify a 'modified/created' date?

luckat · 13-02-2007 9:50am

Only person I ever knew personally who had copyright problems was a friend who wrote a film script. It was rejected, but when the film came out, it was his script!

He was so angry that he went to court, and his lawyer brought in a computer analyst whose textual analysis of the script and comparison work by him and the alleged author proved to the satisfaction of the court that he was in fact the true author. He got paid.

Sarky · 15-06-2007 4:45pm

A lot of you were asking, so here's the basics of the matter, thanks to various knowledgeable folks I asked. If that's still not enough, I recommend you find yourself some books on Irish copyright laws.

Copyright for individual posts rest with the poster, assuming they aren't plagiarising something.

Copyright for the site as an entity greater than the sum of its parts rests with boards.ie Ltd

In posting, the user is licencing boards.ie Ltd to use their work.

They can share the work anyway they want, anywhere else they want.

If someone steals their work, the post is still there, timestamped. This would go a long way towards proving that it is the poster's work.

The one thing they can't do, is stop Boards.ie from copying, since we need to do that to have it on the site.

That said, if they sell it on the grounds that it won't be on any website for a given length of time (not uncommon in contracts) then we'll delete the piece(s) as long as you ask nicely.

Do bear in mind that many publishers refuse to publish anything that has previouly been published. This often includes the internet, and thus includes posting it on this site. If a work is good enough then they may forego that stipulation but in many cases will point blank refuse.

Robert ninja · 25-06-2007 9:39am

If whatever it is you want to Copyright is on your PC. Then attach it to an email and send it to yourself DO THIS BEFORE EVER SENDING IT ON THE INTERNET. The time and date of when it was made will be saved in the email AND the file. If it ever comes to court, show the email. The date will be the earliest news of it. Any other copies will be later, you have the earliest. It's also smart to Blog your creations as they are worked through, this is almost full proof.

If it is not on your computer, I think letters work the same way. Just don't open the letter when it gets back to you. Write the date and all in it or something.

Spyral · 25-06-2007 1:56pm

I got done one time, wrote a hobby based article. Posted it on a forum and a former mate put it on his clubs webite. I had a disargreement and asked my work be removed but he just took my name off it and then claimed that it was his !

F**king @$$H()|_£;'s like that annoy me, so lession is copywrite everything and dont share.

iMADEtheBBC · 02-09-2008 3:23pm

Sending your work to yourself or your solicitor using registered post is an interesting idea. Can anybody cite any precedent or case law that demonstrates this is an effective mechanism ? It doesn't help your case if your work is plagarised.

RandolphEsq · 13-12-2008 5:40pm

doonothing wrote: »

would the fact that you've posted your work up here serve as a bit of evidence that you are the creator of the piece?

no, it isnt even safe to post it up here if you havnt copyrighted it first, you are putting it in a public forum where anyone could copy it and claim as thier own.
Never post work you dont want stolen until you have copyrighted it first

The easiest way is putting a copy of it in the mail to yourself and using the PM date as your copyright date. Never open it and put a little note on the envelope to remind you whats inside

Matt Holck · 13-12-2008 9:01pm

I supposes it's to much to ask other posters to step from anonimity and provide witness

qualiserospero · 18-01-2009 5:07pm

As far as I know, posting to yourself won't hold up in court. I can't quote any legal cases or anything but I've consulted a few in the know people about it and they reckon it's a waste of money and nothing more.

In Ireland I don't think there is any copyright facility. To my knowledge the rule is 'prime face' which is basically the author claiming the ownership is assumed to be so and that he/she can back it up with whatever evidence they may have from the writing process. I think if you type (C) Copyright Your Name on the document then that's good enough...

Personally I think it's really weak to have such a backward system in place. If I write a script or a short story that I think may have potential and that I'm going to send to a consultant or whatever, I always register it with the Writers Guild of America (East or West).

You don't need to be a member, you can do it online, submit the actual document and specify what medium it is intended for. It only costs 20 dollars, you have the ownership for 5 years and you have the option to renew it at that point. Handy when all else fails.

Jessieannas · 29-03-2009 7:43pm

What if someone steals the envelope with your work in it? Or if you spill a drink on it? Or if theres a fire? Basically, what if something happens to the envelope holding your work and you've already put it up here, or sent a copy to someone else or something? xxx

iMADEtheBBC · 29-03-2009 7:57pm

"poor mans copyright"

http://www.paulrapp.com/display_article.php?id=12

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poor_man%27s_copyright

http://songsculptor.com/copyright.htm

When you create an original work and put it in a tangible form (written lyrics on paper, an audio recording of the song) then you have copyright protection.

'Poor man's copyright' may or may not provide a way to prove that you are the author of the original work. Personally I wouldn't depend on it.

qualiserospero · 29-03-2009 8:30pm

Agree with above post. Once it's written and you lay claim to a piece of work, you should be able to back it up. If, for example, you had the most original idea of recent years, totally individual, and sent it around to a few producers. Then 2 years later a couple of movies come out with that exact idea and you want to take both studios to court, which hearing will you break open the envelope in? Unless you've got multiple envelopes lying around posted to yourself; the fact of the matter is one copy can only be used on one occasion.

It makes sense to simply register it with the US guild, they can, at request, provide you with a copy of your submitted work and back up your registration date with the number they issue you... it's maybe not air-tight because a clever producer will change the details just enough to make it that bit different, but at least you've more of a chance to succeed in winning your case with legitimate documentation.

Fiona500 · 05-04-2009 11:50pm

The way to copyright music and literature (of any kind) in Ireland is to send it to yourself by registered post. As long as you do not open the envelope and keep the original receipt issued to you by the post office this WILL hold up in court. If you do a lot of writing then this does get expensive, but it would be a lot more expensive to have your work ripped off.

You can get more information on the Irish Copyright Licensing Agency website (www.icla.ie). On their Information page, scroll down to "Protection is Automatic" and read the third paragraph in that section. It provides details of how to prove the date of your work.

NOTE: Sending an email to yourself does not constitute as "the same thing" and may not hold up in a court of law.

Good luck everyone!

iMADEtheBBC · 06-04-2009 2:59pm

Fiona can you post a link to a case where using 'poor mans copyright' has been successful in a court ?

samonteroel · 01-05-2009 9:32am

for me internet materials are difficult to secure. yes we can say that it is copyrighted but other people may use it somewhere else without our knowledge, we are talking here of whole world.

barby_ · 28-07-2009 6:28pm

Hi guys,
I am just wondering about google docs.... If I use that system to write my novel, is it still under the copyright protection?

barby_ · 28-07-2009 6:54pm

I found this link:

http://www.google.com/google-d-s/legal.html

"COPYRIGHT AND PERMISSION NOTICE

Copyright (c) 1995-2003 International Business Machines Corporation and others All rights reserved.

Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so, provided that the above copyright notice(s) and this permission notice appear in all copies of the Software and that both the above copyright notice(s) and this permission notice appear in supporting documentation."

As I am not a native English speaker, I am getting a bit confused.. does it mean that they can do what they want with my writing? Even selling it to third parties?

pickarooney · 29-07-2009 11:26am

barby_ wrote: »

I found this link:

http://www.google.com/google-d-s/legal.html

"COPYRIGHT AND PERMISSION NOTICE

Copyright (c) 1995-2003 International Business Machines Corporation and others All rights reserved.

Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so, provided that the above copyright notice(s) and this permission notice appear in all copies of the Software and that both the above copyright notice(s) and this permission notice appear in supporting documentation."

As I am not a native English speaker, I am getting a bit confused.. does it mean that they can do what they want with my writing? Even selling it to third parties?

As far as I can tell this excerpt relates to the software (Google docs presumably) used to create/edit documents and not to the content itself. I know Google have a habit of adding rather dodgy End User Licence Agreements to their programs, so in case of doubt I would steer clear of it.

Calvin141170 · 29-07-2009 1:04pm

Seriously guys... come on! Google isn't looking to steal anybody's rights to documents written in Google Docs.

Copyright in a work rests with the owner as soon as it is created, in whatever medium -- electronic or otherwise, online or off, whether it's finished or just started. It's important to remember that there's no copyright on ideas -- it's the specific words / arrangement / composition that constitutes your original work. There's nothing to stop someone taking your idea and developing it / reworking it using their own words.

Google Docs is just a software tool, like your word processor, that you can use to create your work. It's an incredibly handy and convenient tool, especially if you're working collaboratively on a project.

I use it all the time to write original work, and have never worried about, or had issues relating to copyright. Seriously, I wouldn't worry about it.

barby_ · 29-07-2009 2:45pm

Thanks a mil for your answers pickarooney and Calvin141170, I feel much better now

I guess they would not steal anybody's docs, but as I heard so many different things on google, I just wanted to clear my mind up.

Inari · 07-09-2009 7:24pm

The line between inspired by, and stolen from is a rather blurry one. Easiest way to protect your work, is (as many have said) to have a timestamped copy of your work. Physical copies work better as computers can be manipulated. In a copyright battle you're trying to prove that you're the original author of the work, so anything you can do to prove that is a step in your favour

mandy_m · 09-09-2009 9:29am

aha thx

Copyrights...

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