Drink Driving and urine samples

colbully · 14-01-2013 2:06pm #1

hi,this is really my first thread on boards.ie and what a first thread its going to be

.. anyways the other night i was having a meal and a few glasses of wine at my gf's house at around 9pm and during the night we had an argument over something silly and i left to drive home which was 30 minutes from her house.. now i know i shouldnt have done this and i feel terrible for doing it, and infact i think i deserve some sort of punishment as i know that drink driving causes tons of accidents and deaths every year.. anyways i had only 3-5 glasses of wine and around the same amount in glasses of water plus the food we had.. i left at around 12.30am to drive home, and a few mile from her house, two garda cars appeared out of no where and formed a barracade on the road and blocked me!! i was so shocked. they askedme to get out of the car and asked mehad i drank,,and i told them i had,,then ten breathlysed me ,by the side of the road which read positive.. so i got into the garda car and went to the station and proceeded to answer all the questins asked.. i then was told i would have to preform another test in the station, which i agreeded to do.. Then it turned out the machine in the station was faulty, so a doctor had to be rang to come and take a blood/urine samp from me...i was brought into the station at 12.30pm and the doctor didnt arrive until 3.20am !! so at this stage i felt 100percent sober..i gave my urine sample and i was let go,,at 3.45am.. my question is ,,whas going t happed next for me ???!!! as im absolutley worried sick.. Im 27 and ive a full license the last 8 years..ive never ever been in trouble with the law,,infact ive never even given a statement before!! i need my license for my job and im panickingthat this may turn out bad for me..im a fairly well built guy im 90 plus kg in weight,,i train alot and i eat clean and only drink the odd occasion and im hoping my body will have passed most of the alcohol i consumed,,sorry for the long post but im truly lost now

seamus · 14-01-2013 2:33pm

All you can do is wait for the results of the urine test as that's the one that matters.

Although you felt stone cold sober, that could easily be adrenaline masking how you felt. I know that doesn't help, but better to be prepared for the worst than trying to convince yourself it'll be grand.

What will happen if it's positive depends on the level detected.

If it's less than 67mg there's no offence
If it's more than 67mg but less than 107mg, you'll get a €200 fine, 3 points
If it's between 107mg and 135mg it's a €400 fine and 6 months disqualified.
If it's more than 135mg you have to go to court and it's a minimum 1 year ban.

For reference, 107mg is "quite tipsy" in my experience. You can walk in a straight line and speak normally but you definitely know you've drink onboard. 67mg would vary from person to person, but you would certainly be feeling the buzz at that point.

If you had (say) 3 glasses of wine and then nothing for 3 hours, I'd be surprised if you registered above 67mg, but everyone's body is different.

colbully · 14-01-2013 2:40pm

seamus wrote: »

All you can do is wait for the results of the urine test as that's the one that matters.

Although you felt stone cold sober, that could easily be adrenaline masking how you felt. I know that doesn't help, but better to be prepared for the worst than trying to convince yourself it'll be grand.

What will happen if it's positive depends on the level detected.

If it's less than 67mg there's no offence
If it's more than 67mg but less than 107mg, you'll get a €200 fine, 3 points
If it's between 107mg and 135mg it's a €400 fine and 6 months disqualified.
If it's more than 135mg you have to go to court and it's a minimum 1 year ban.

For reference, 107mg is "quite tipsy" in my experience. You can walk in a straight line and speak normally but you definitely know you've drink onboard. 67mg would vary from person to person, but you would certainly be feeling the buzz at that point.

If you had (say) 3 glasses of wine and then nothing for 3 hours, I'd be surprised if you registered above 67mg, but everyone's body is different.

thanks for the quick reply seamus..i did feel a bit tipsy and to be hoest it was the whole shock of the way they pulled me over and all that ,sobered me up in a shot...im praying that this willgood but i cant stop worrying,,.id gladly pay 5grand of a fine and 10 penalty points if i culd keep my license

MagicSean · 14-01-2013 2:43pm

You'll get a copy of the reading by registered post. Shouldn't take too long. The minimum disqualification periods are mandatory on conviction.

Interesting that two Garda cars appeared out of nowhere. Would your girlfriend be a vindictive person by any chance?

Just from experience. If you had 3 standard glasses you will likely be under. If you had 5 then you may indeed be over. You're quite lucky it took the doctor so long to get to the station.

ResearchWill · 14-01-2013 2:43pm

If and when you get the result you need to go to a solicitor if it is over the limit there maybe at least one very good defense point. Don't ask me what I will not break charter rules by giving advice.

JustAddWater · 14-01-2013 2:48pm

MagicSean wrote: »

Interesting that two Garda cars appeared out of nowhere. Would your girlfriend be a vindictive person by any chance?

Or maybe the OP was more drunk than thought and was driving all over the place?

Why insinuate anything when you know the OP as much as I do? (i.e not at all)

colbully · 14-01-2013 2:49pm

ive contacted my solictor already and had a meeting with him and hes offered me alot of advice but cant proceed any further until the results are back

and MagicSean,, u took the words out of my mouth ..my gf knows a few local gards fairly well and thi crossed my mind that she may have alerted them.. honest to god the way they blocked me in and had lights flashing ,, i thought i was goin to be takd the the ground and hand cuffed...5 gards got out and surrounded the car !!!!! i was speechless

colbully · 14-01-2013 2:53pm

i could not have been driving all over the place as it was when i was pulling up to a set of traffic lights when it happened an moving very slowly..before i pulled up there was no cars behind me,,and then all of a sudden,,two garda cars .. i asked the gard was i speeding or anything and he just said no... my solictor also found it strange that they pulled me over in this way... im now starting to wonder would it have been my car they were suspicious of... i only have it 3 months and bought it from a lad in dublin,, ad i only drive it at weekends as i use a van for work .its fully taxed,insured and nct'd and not loud,or boy racer like...

Yellowblackbird · 14-01-2013 4:05pm

Of course his girlfriend called the guards. You'd be blind colbully if you can't read that one.

colbully · 14-01-2013 4:25pm

It's upsetting me more now thinking about this As I now think it was her who reported me. She is denying it but I feel sick now thinking of it

MagicSean · 14-01-2013 4:43pm

JustAddWater wrote: »

Or maybe the OP was more drunk than thought and was driving all over the place?

Why insinuate anything when you know the OP as much as I do? (i.e not at all)

Maybe he was and happened to pass two Garda cars who happened to be beside each other and immediately assumed he was drunk.

dewsbury · 14-01-2013 5:01pm

A few friends and I experimented with the alcohol testing machines a couple of years ago.

Based on our experience (VERY unscientific) there must be a fair chance that you will be okay.

Assume 5 glasses of wine over three hours followed by a three hour delay before the test??? I would guess that this would be okay.
The time delay factor is critical here.

colbully · 14-01-2013 5:07pm

The time delay from my last drink to the urine test was at least a good 4 hours.. In my mind I'm trying to sugar coat this scenario as much as I can, but I guess I hav to get it into my head that there's a chance I could be off the road for a while soon .. It's my own fault to b honest an Im just going to have to get on with things ... I officially hate alcohol

Procrastastudy · 14-01-2013 5:08pm

dewsbury wrote: »

A few friends and I experimented with the alcohol testing machines a couple of years ago.

Based on our experience (VERY unscientific) there must be a fair chance that you will be okay.

Assume 5 glasses of wine over three hours followed by a three hour delay before the test??? I would guess that this would be okay.
The time delay factor is critical here.

Purely out of curiosity - wouldn't the delay be nullified by virtue of the fact they tested his urine? I really have no idea, sorry if that's a stupid question, I'm just assuming that's how it gets out of the body and that they didnt let the OP take a tinkle.

av8r10 · 14-01-2013 5:12pm

i reckon your in the clear mate, one glass of wine is 1 unit i think, and 1 unit is gone in an hour, so if you had 4 glasses youll be fine!

Procrastastudy · 14-01-2013 5:16pm

av8r10 wrote: »

i reckon your in the clear mate, one glass of wine is 1 unit i think, and 1 unit is gone in an hour, so if you had 4 glasses youll be fine!

The problem is that's 175ml glasses - I don't know about normal people but to me (and my stemware

) a 750ml bottle is about 4 glasses - that's ten units in a 13.5% bottle of wine.

If it was under a bottle he might be okay. Not everyone has the portion sizes I do

colbully · 14-01-2013 5:18pm

But as the poster before u said av8r10,, would my urine now be full of alcohol anyways ?

Procrastastudy · 14-01-2013 5:21pm

colbully wrote: »

But as the poster before u said av8r10,, would my urine now be full of alcohol anyways ?

Sorry OP I know I'm not helping calm you down - just curious about a few bits. I wish you the best of luck and even if it turns out that you have a short ban it's not the end of the world - it happens to plenty of people who just make that sill mistake once off.

Best of luck to you.

kevincaomhin · 14-01-2013 5:22pm

I am not condoning drinkdriving but.....

Are you entitled to ask for a blood or urine sample instead of a second breath test?

It would seem like a good strategy if you were borderline as the delay could swing the test in your favour?

colbully · 14-01-2013 5:27pm

Thanks everyone for yer help an opinions .. In my own eyes an mind the urine will come back over the limit but then again I think I'm thinking this wayto prepare myself for the worst ... Thanks again

colbully · 14-01-2013 5:30pm

I was offered a sample of the urine but turned it down as I didn't see much point in it ... I don't suppose I can still get the sample I was offered now ?

MagicSean · 14-01-2013 5:37pm

kevincaomhin wrote: »

I am not condoning drinkdriving but.....

Are you entitled to ask for a blood or urine sample instead of a second breath test?

It would seem like a good strategy if you were borderline as the delay could swing the test in your favour?

No you are not.

colbully wrote: »

I was offered a sample of the urine but turned it down as I didn't see much point in it ... I don't suppose I can still get the sample I was offered now ?

No you cannot.

ResearchWill · 14-01-2013 5:51pm

colbully wrote: »

I was offered a sample of the urine but turned it down as I didn't see much point in it ... I don't suppose I can still get the sample I was offered now ?

To late now, but in any event ever second test I have ever seen was higher than the official, as they allow a margin of error.

Here is a piece of the relevant legisislation read it carefully.

4.— (1) A person shall not drive or attempt to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place while he or she is under the influence of an intoxicant to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the vehicle.

(2) A person shall not drive or attempt to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place while there is present in his or her body a quantity of alcohol such that, within 3 hours after so driving or attempting to drive, the concentration of alcohol in his or her blood will exceed a concentration of—

And

5.— (1) A person commits an offence if, when in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place with intent to drive or attempt to drive the vehicle (but not driving or attempting to drive it), he or she is under the influence of an intoxicant to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the vehicle.

(2) A person commits an offence if, when in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place with intent to drive or attempt to drive the vehicle (but not driving or attempting to drive it), there is present in his or her body a quantity of alcohol such that, within 3 hours after so being in charge, the concentration of alcohol in his or her blood will exceed a concentration of—

seamus · 14-01-2013 5:53pm

kevincaomhin wrote: »

I am not condoning drinkdriving but.....

Are you entitled to ask for a blood or urine sample instead of a second breath test?

No. The decision on the type of sample to take lies with the arresting Garda.
Refusing to supply any sample carries basically the same penalties as being found guilty of being over the limit.

Though in some cases you can avoid a disqualification for refusing a sample, so some savvy people have chosen to go the "refused sample" route when they know they're miles over the limit.

godtabh · 14-01-2013 5:55pm

colbully wrote: »

It's upsetting me more now thinking about this As I now think it was her who reported me. She is denying it but I feel sick now thinking of it

If you've had a few drinks it may have been obvious to many people that you needed to be stopped for your and other peoples own good.

It seems like a very long time between when you were arrested to when you gave a blood/urine sample.

Is there a minimum/maximum amount time allowable to give a sample (the longer it is the better your chances?)? Can you object to the second garda breathalyzer and opt for the doctor to take samples?

ResearchWill · 14-01-2013 6:00pm

godtabh wrote: »

If you've had a few drinks it may have been obvious to many people that you needed to be stopped for your and other peoples own good.

It seems like a very long time between when you were arrested to when you gave a blood/urine sample.

Is there a minimum/maximum amount time allowable to give a sample (the longer it is the better your chances?)? Can you object to the second garda breathalyzer and opt for the doctor to take samples?

I have posted the answer to your astute question above. Read the section carefully.

godtabh · 14-01-2013 6:03pm

ResearchWill wrote: »

I have posted the answer to your astute question above. Read the section carefully.

I wrote my question. Left my desk and then posted. Looks like there has been a few posts since

colbully · 14-01-2013 6:13pm

The gard told me the machine in the station was faulty. He took me into the room to use it an didn't know how to operate it or set it up so i never gave a sample into that machine.an made a few phone calls to various other Garda about the machine . He then told me it wasn't working and a doctor would have to be called .. The doctor was called around 20 minutes after that. And didn't arrive until 3.15-3.20am an I was offered either a blood or urine test by the doctor ,, not the gard . I picked urine an did the business an watched the doc seal the containers an put them in the box an seal that .. Should I not have been put in a cell ?? Or handcuffed ? Since I had failed the roadside ? I thought that was routine ?

Procrastastudy · 14-01-2013 6:15pm

colbully wrote: »

The gard told me the machine in the station was faulty. He took me into the room to use it an didn't know how to operate it or set it up so i never gave a sample into that machine.an made a few phone calls to various other Garda about the machine . He then told me it wasn't working and a doctor would have to be called .. The doctor was called around 20 minutes after that. And didn't arrive until 3.15-3.20am an I was offered either a blood or urine test by the doctor ,, not the gard . I picked urine an did the business an watched the doc seal the containers an put them in the box an seal that .. Should I not have been put in a cell ?? Or handcuffed ? Since I had failed the roadside ? I thought that was routine ?

I can't speak to what is routine but if you're co-operative and relatively sober surely it's within the discretion of the Guard no to cuff you or chuck you in a cell?

EDIT: I know you're not suggesting this OP but I'd love to see someone try and claim their detention was invalid because the guard was too nice to them

colbully · 14-01-2013 6:16pm

Also I think my car was taken away an searched .. Because when I got into the Garda car ,, an took off towards the station , another gard ( who I'm sure is drug squad gard) took my car up a completely different road from the road to the station ... Towards the town itself .. Then when I got out of the station at 3.40am my car wa right outside the front door of the station

ResearchWill · 14-01-2013 6:17pm

colbully wrote: »

The gard told me the machine in the station was faulty. He took me into the room to use it an didn't know how to operate it or set it up so i never gave a sample into that machine.an made a few phone calls to various other Garda about the machine . He then told me it wasn't working and a doctor would have to be called .. The doctor was called around 20 minutes after that. And didn't arrive until 3.15-3.20am an I was offered either a blood or urine test by the doctor ,, not the gard . I picked urine an did the business an watched the doc seal the containers an put them in the box an seal that .. Should I not have been put in a cell ?? Or handcuffed ? Since I had failed the roadside ? I thought that was routine ?

It's rare to be in a cell, usually it's in the main office waiting area for drink driving. I don't ever recall a drink driving case that the accused was handcuffed. In your OP you state you left the house at 12:30 and you state you arrived at the station at 12:30 do you remember the exact times.

Drink Driving and urine samples

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