UPDATES TO THE CHARTER

Bateman · 27-01-2015 8:12pm

A fair bit of effort has gone into explaining the motivations here, and thanks for that, but I honestly believe that more effort should be put into evaluating people who report posts and/or PM a mod (that is seemingly what has happened here).

What has happened here is that Patriot fans do not like criticism of the organisation - fair or unfair. They've decided to "draw a line in the sand" that will make it harder for people to criticise that organisation, or any other organisation all the way up to the NFL itself.

When I criticised Goodell heavily a while back, and backed it up with examples, I had to listen to stuff about how "succesful" the NFL is. As if the argument goes that the person making a negative argument about something is to be held to a totally different standard than the person making a positive argument, which may or may not have any basis in reality. I have never in my life reported a post and I find it strange that grown adults (assuming most on here are) would do so. It reminds you of the old saying that the truth hurts...

Bateman · 27-01-2015 8:14pm

To add - I have no intention of trolling anyone or winding anyone up, I am too long in the tooth for that. I will needless to say try to stay on the right side of what has been [partially] explained.

Neil3030 · 27-01-2015 8:30pm

Bateman wrote: »

What has happened here is that Patriot fans do not like criticism of the organisation - fair or unfair. They've decided to "draw a line in the sand" that will make it harder for people to criticise that organisation, or any other organisation all the way up to the NFL itself.

This is simply not true. I don't know where this is coming from as I have never been slightly biased for or against any team. Posters cannot abuse the patriots any more, much like they can't abuse the other 31 teams.

When I criticised Goodell heavily a while back, and backed it up with examples, I had to listen to stuff about how "succesful" the NFL is. As if the argument goes that the person making a negative argument about something is to be held to a totally different standard than the person making a positive argument, which may or may not have any basis in reality. I have never in my life reported a post and I find it strange that grown adults (assuming most on here are) would do so. It reminds you of the old saying that the truth hurts...

It sounds like, at worst, people were offering a straw man argument against your criticism of Goodell, which may be poor arguing logic but it's not banned and it it's not abusive.

Now, had people attacked you or your intentions when defending Goodell, that's where the rules have been breached.

So what remains partially explained?

I know i have other posts to respond to but im on a train here on my phone. Ill be on my comp later and ill get to it.

27-01-2015 8:40pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

Other forums operate on the exact same rules. In fact, the rugby forum have extended the personal abuse to referees, though i don't think that will be as necessary here.

I can't find the "organisation rule" in the rugby forum.

And I know the soccer forum is very different.

So we can see the rules in operation, could you identify a forum with the exact same rules? Thanks

Neil3030 · 27-01-2015 10:28pm

Right guys, enough about the deflategate thread. The thread will be re-opened once we have had a good chinwag about the new rules, which will hopefully serve to keep the ensuing discussion civil.

This thread will from this point on be for discussion and clarification of the new rules - NOT A PLACE FOR TAKING CHEAP SHOTS AT EACH OTHER

Neil3030 · 27-01-2015 10:45pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Any chance we can have a special Patriots forum separate from the NFL forum and then have the old rules for the NFL forum? Rules are disappointing tbh and really will take away the enjoyment and good spirit of the forum.

Eh.. Is there even a forum for new forum requests anymore? If there is, maybe try there!

Russell Eager Macaw wrote: »

ya when you put it that way i think its fair enough to be honest and it should keep the forum more cordial. I do have two questions on the matter.

1. how will ye define the attacking an organisation/player rule. i for example dislike how the seahawk players carry themselves it is something that i will mention from time to time in context without giving examples on every occasion would this be an issue?

2.also staying on the seahawks i feel for example sherman gets away with absolute murder when it comes to holding the reciever (and i think its pretty common knowledge to be fair) if it state this will i have to back it up with pictures every time?

1. Common sense will be applied. You can of course say that you dislike a player, if the topic affords it, or dislike certain aspects of their behaviour, once you're stating an honestly held preference. I don't even think you need to back it up - if you don't like someone, you don't like them and that's fine. However 2 things on this, 1. I say ' preference' here; you won't get away with abuse if you simply preface it with "in my opinion...." and 2. Context will also be applied - if it's seen to just be a means to wind people up (like if you wade into the Seahawks thread every morning for a 9AM update on how much you dislike Pete Carroll), it'll be considered trolling.

2. Again, this will only breach the rules if you use ad hominem or abuse. Suggesting Sherman gets away with a lot of niggle at the line of scrimmage is fine, but going beyond that to suggest that there's a conspiracy with the officials or that he's a cheating b*stard, or something to that effect, is not.

poldebruin wrote: »

Thanks for responding Neil. The new rules will possibly make for more civil discourse. Hopefully we can all also apply some common sense, see humour where intended, give benefit of the doubt etc.

Common sense will be applied, don't worry.

Just to add a more general point - I amn't going to be roaming the streets with a ban hammer here - this will just give mods a framework to stop problems before they start. And in many cases a warning in the thread suffices.

Neil3030 · 27-01-2015 10:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I can't find the "organisation rule" in the rugby forum.

And I know the soccer forum is very different.

So we can see the rules in operation, could you identify a forum with the exact same rules? Thanks

If the rugby charter doesn't express it specifically, it is certainly policed under the clauses in the charter for bickering and bitchiness. Posters are not allowed make abusive remarks about teams or their fans. We just want to set this in stone, so people know exactly where they stand.

Out of interest, what do you feel these new rules preclude you from doing that you would like to otherwise do?

kryogen · 27-01-2015 11:00pm

Soccer forum is the same, you cannot call Benitez the Fat Spanish Waiter, cant call Chelsea Chelski etc

27-01-2015 11:16pm

kryogen wrote: »

Soccer forum is the same, you cannot call Benitez the Fat Spanish Waiter, cant call Chelsea Chelski etc

Bet I could find 10 post in the past hour saying Diego Costa is a cheat, a scumbag and so on.

Bet I could find posts about an organisation like FIFA being full of corrupt scumbags and other terms of abuse and contempt.

I can even find a thread where the topic title refers to some fans as "full kit ****"!

Edit - here is a post in the soccer forum tonight. Suspect it won't raise an eyebrow.

RainMaker wrote: »

Pure scum

Scumbag owner, scumbag manager, scumbag players, scumbag fans, won't even mention the other bile filled scum fans :P

Good night, good luck

Neil3030 · 27-01-2015 11:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Bet I could find 10 post in the past hour saying Diego Costa is a cheat, a scumbag and so on.

Bet I could find posts about an organisation like FIFA being full of corrupt scumbags and other terms of abuse and contempt.

I can even find a thread where the topic title refers to some fans as "full kit ****"!

Edit - here is a post in the soccer forum tonight. Suspect it won't raise an eyebrow.

An infraction was issued for that post.

Chucky the tree · 27-01-2015 11:32pm

I think player/team abuse has made this forum as enjoyable as it has been for me. It was one of the few forums that everyone generally got on well with each other with little major incidents. I think the relaxed nature of the modding aided in the good atmosphere this forum has had down through the years. I think this rules will seriously take away from that. The fact people are pointing to the soccer and rugby forums as examples of these rules is quite depressing, both forums are fairly horrible and not much fun. I'm a firm believer in getting rid of the bad posters in a forum if you want a good forum, rather than making stricter rules.

Also I have to say I'm disappointed Neil that your attitude is basically "This is my forum, I'll do what I want and I basically don't give a **** what the users think".

Beasty · 27-01-2015 11:46pm

I'll chip in with a CMod perspective, taking into account a number of issues I see quite regularly in other sports forums:

1. Accusing players/clubs or indeed anyone else of cheating/breaking the rules (or indeed the law). This may well be considered defamation and leaves the accuser as well as Boards potentially open to legal action. The site does not permit unsubstantiated allegations against others. Reporting proven allegations is generally fine though. Rather than leaving any judgement issues over what may result in actual legal action, it's much better to simply prohibit such accusations which is what has happened here

2. Abuse of players/teams etc. Sports like American Football attract fans who usually have their own favourite teams/players etc. Abusing those teams or players can easily be considered trolling of the fans of that team/player. This position is adopted in a number of sports forums (including the Soccer and Rugby forums)

28-01-2015 12:06am

Neil3030 wrote: »

An infraction was issued for that post.

There would be about 30 or 40 for that thread if rules here were applied.

Beasty · 28-01-2015 12:28am

Deleted User wrote: »

Why then does the thread asking if Rodgers is a cheat and if the Browns were cheating both remain open?

Could you please clarify what in the Pats thread was more risqué?

I have passed comment as a CMod. Until the past few days I've not noticed any major issues with this forum. However I cannot comment on specific threads or posts as I have not been following them. I have been following this thread though and think there are one or two posters who are very lucky not to have been sanctioned for some of the posts made

Have you reported any posts you feel contain unsubstantiated allegations of cheating?

Neil3030 · 28-01-2015 12:43am

kryogen and Conor74, please do not post in this thread again

...and everyone else, no more discussion of the closure of the deflation thread. This is a feedback thread for specific charter changes, not a free-for-all. The mods are all on point with these changes.

So has anyone any other points about the new rules to discuss?

Chucky the tree · 28-01-2015 12:53am

Neil3030 wrote: »

kryogen and Conor74, please do not post in this thread again

...and everyone else, no more discussion of the closure of the deflation thread. This is a feedback thread for specific charter changes, not a free-for-all. The mods are all on point with these changes.

So has anyone any other points about the new rules to discuss?

If the rules are in place and they're not going to be changed then why bother with a discussion?

Neil3030 · 28-01-2015 12:55am

Chucky the tree wrote: »

If the rules are in place and they're not going to be changed then why bother with a discussion?

It's a feedback thread for people who want clarification on the new rules.

mikemac1 · 28-01-2015 1:38am

Can I call players on my own team busts?

I'm thinking of a first round safety who is a liability :mad:

Neil3030 · 28-01-2015 1:45am

mikemac1 wrote: »

Can I call players on my own team busts?

I'm thinking of a first round safety who is a liability :mad:

Yeah I reckon that's ok. In fact I don't think 'bust' is abusive for any player on any team, if you can back it up (if requested) and it's not simply done to troll.

mikemac1 · 28-01-2015 1:47am

Cool and I can back it up with stats for leading the team in missed tackles

That won't happen in 2015 as he'll be benched!

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