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Another CID query

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Comments

  • #52
    Kierankk
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Kierankk


    Yea I'm fully qualified for Business and Accounting!


  • #53
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    ya ive heard if folk on resource/learningsupport/behaviour hours only getting the CID in the subject that is on file with the dept.

    Congrats anyhow, nice to hear some good news these days.


  • #54
    Kierankk
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Kierankk


    Thanks for all the well wishes........


  • #55
    trihead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭trihead


    Well done.
    Its probably due to a recent case a few months ago brought by a teacher against an ETB (labour court I think) which was successful for them and has resulted in similar CIDs being issued.


  • #56
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    trihead wrote: »
    Well done.
    Its probably due to a recent case a few months ago brought by a teacher against an ETB (labour court I think) which was successful for them and has resulted in similar CIDs being issued.

    Should have been fairly straightforward for KieranKK though no?? I presume he got it as he was on year 4 of successive contracts..

    Must look up that CID case anyway for a gander.. cheers.


  • #57
    pk2014
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭pk2014


    Any one have experience or knowledge of a cid being increased?
    I have a cid for less than half hours for 3 years but I have always had 22 hours.
    The other hours are fixed term. I was hoping that I could request an upgrade but I cant find any mention of it in the circulars or union website.
    Any advice appreciated


  • #58
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    pk2014 wrote: »
    Any one have experience or knowledge of a cid being increased?
    I have a cid for less than half hours for 3 years but I have always had 22 hours.
    The other hours are fixed term. I was hoping that I could request an upgrade but I cant find any mention of it in the circulars or union website.
    Any advice appreciated

    How long have you had the other 11 hours on top of your CID?


  • #59
    Millem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    pk2014 wrote: »
    Any one have experience or knowledge of a cid being increased?
    I have a cid for less than half hours for 3 years but I have always had 22 hours.
    The other hours are fixed term. I was hoping that I could request an upgrade but I cant find any mention of it in the circulars or union website.
    Any advice appreciated

    Yes it has happened in my school but the other hours have to be your "own" in the last year.


  • #60
    pk2014
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭pk2014


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    How long have you had the other 11 hours on top of your CID?

    I have the cid since 2011 and I have taught 22 every year since.
    They have always been fixed purpose and are my own hours.
    Millem did the teacher request it or was it automatically done?
    Do you think it should be after 3 years or 4? I was hoping that it would be after 3 with hr but the circular doesn't mention reviews only that if a cid is for partial hours a principal should try to allocate extra hours to existing teachers before advertising.


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  • #61
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    pk2014 wrote: »
    I have the cid since 2011 and I have taught 22 every year since.
    They have always been fixed purpose and are my own hours.
    Millem did the teacher request it or was it automatically done?
    Do you think it should be after 3 years or 4? I was hoping that it would be after 3 with hr but the circular doesn't mention reviews only that if a cid is for partial hours a principal should try to allocate extra hours to existing teachers before advertising.

    This is just my take on it, but since the new agreement I would imagine any hours reckonable for CID are now based on 3 years rather than four.

    So you've had the second 11 hours for the 11-12, 12-13, 13-14 school years?

    If that is the case, I would imagine you have a case to have your current CID improved to 22 hours in September when you have passed the 3 year mark for the second lot of hours. I'm assuming that your contracts have always run from the start of the school year.

    If that is the case you won't be able to do anything about it until September as you won't reach the 3 year mark until the end of August.


  • #62
    Millem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    pk2014 wrote: »
    I have the cid since 2011 and I have taught 22 every year since.
    They have always been fixed purpose and are my own hours.
    Millem did the teacher request it or was it automatically done?
    Do you think it should be after 3 years or 4? I was hoping that it would be after 3 with hr but the circular doesn't mention reviews only that if a cid is for partial hours a principal should try to allocate extra hours to existing teachers before advertising.

    It happens automatically in my school my principal is great like that :) it should be after 3 years now with HR. Just make sure those 11 hours are "yours" as it has happened that people think they are theirs but they are actually a job share from a completely separate dept that has nothing to do with you but principal has shuffled hours. If they are yours and are learning support I don't know if they will go towards CID either :)


  • #63
    pk2014
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭pk2014


    Cheers. Thanks for the replies


  • #64
    ohdannyboy
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭ohdannyboy


    Hi, hope others can help as It's hard to get a straight answer from asti sometimes.
    I'm currently in my 3rd fixed term contract in the one school.
    12/13 was 7 hrs 20 mins.
    13/14 was 7hrs 15 mins.
    14/15 is 12 hrs 10 mins.
    Can anyone outline exactly what happens now in relation to a cid?
    I assumed that one will automatically be offered to me this summer. Union says not necessarily. That I have to be offered a 4th first.
    Should I be talking to my principal on this? My gut says no, as he is "awkward".
    Advice welcome!


  • #65
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    ohdannyboy wrote: »
    Hi, hope others can help as It's hard to get a straight answer from asti sometimes.
    I'm currently in my 3rd fixed term contract in the one school.
    12/13 was 7 hrs 20 mins.
    13/14 was 7hrs 15 mins.
    14/15 is 12 hrs 10 mins.
    Can anyone outline exactly what happens now in relation to a cid?
    I assumed that one will automatically be offered to me this summer. Union says not necessarily. That I have to be offered a 4th first.
    Should I be talking to my principal on this? My gut says no, as he is "awkward".
    Advice welcome!

    They are right and wrong. When CIDs were reduced to 3 years you have to be asked back for your fourth year for the CID to kick in. So if you are re-employed in September by your school then your CID should come automatically (sometimes you have to chase it up) and it should be for the hours you had in your third year which would be 12:10.

    The expert group that was set up as a result of Haddington Road recommended in Septmber just gone that CIDs be reduced to 2 years. I'm guessing this has not come into effect yet.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/parttime-teachers-to-get-job-security-after-two-years-30595566.html

    Ignoring that for the moment, if your 12:10 is all your own, i.e. some of those hours aren't covering a maternity etc, then if you are back in September you should get your CID for 12:10. Based on past experience, I'd just keep my head down for the moment, there's nothing you can do about getting a CID until September.


  • #66
    ohdannyboy
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭ohdannyboy


    Thanks rainbowtrout.
    In addition to this, I have been given extra maths classes last year and this year. This year, for instance, I have a 40 minute class since Oct and then another 40 min class since Jan 15.
    These were not contracted hours, instead were subbing, paid by the school. Do I wait till Sept and then appeal?


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  • #67
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    If they are subbing do they belong to another teacher?


  • #68
    theLuggage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 399 ✭✭theLuggage


    Whether or not they belong to another teacher doesn't matter. The Adjudicator (sp?) has ruled a few times that ALL hours in the year prior to being offered a CID should be part of that CID. As long as they were for the entire year.

    Whether the union will want to argue that on your behalf for 40 mins is another matter.

    Also under the new two year rule you would be getting a 7 hr 15 min CID not the 12 hr 10 min presumably - interesting to see how that plays out!


  • #69
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    theLuggage wrote: »
    Whether or not they belong to another teacher doesn't matter. The Adjudicator (sp?) has ruled a few times that ALL hours in the year prior to being offered a CID should be part of that CID. As long as they were for the entire year.

    Whether the union will want to argue that on your behalf for 40 mins is another matter.

    Also under the new two year rule you would be getting a 7 hr 15 min CID not the 12 hr 10 min presumably - interesting to see how that plays out!

    In previous years the temporary hours were not given CID status if they were in the final year. Also is there a circular anywhere to show that the two year ruling has come into effect and how it effects teachers like the OP?


  • #70
    theLuggage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 399 ✭✭theLuggage


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    In previous years the temporary hours were not given CID status if they were in the final year. Also is there a circular anywhere to show that the two year ruling has come into effect and how it effects teachers like the OP?

    Temporary hours in the final year have been given CID status in the past. It has been done through Adjudicator rulings. I know this as some of my CID hours came from being temporary in the final year. Union supported my case and were fantastic doing it.

    No circular about the two year that I'm aware of. That's the cynical part of me assuming the Dept would be happier to give a CID for 7 hrs + than 12 +, but hopefully the union will be all over that if it happens. As I said interesting to see what happens there.

    Some links:
    http://www.asti.ie/uploads/media/ASTIR_Journal_SEPTEMBER2011_proof5.pdf See page 35 for short bit about temporary hours and CID
    http://www.asti.ie/uploads/media/ASTIR_NovDec2010_web.pdf See page 31 with "Hours Covered" heading in particular


  • #71
    ohdannyboy
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭ohdannyboy


    Well if I'm offered a cid surely it has to be for the hours in my third year. The new recommendations will not come into effect until Sept. If I'm reemployed the cid will surely be processed before this and therefore for 12:10.?
    I'll think about the extra classes issue.


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  • #72
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    ohdannyboy wrote: »
    Well if I'm offered a cid surely it has to be for the hours in my third year. The new recommendations will not come into effect until Sept. If I'm reemployed the cid will surely be processed before this and therefore for 12:10.?
    I'll think about the extra classes issue.

    It would be of more benefit to you to have a CID for 12:10 that 7 hours no matter how many years you are there. The only reason I would go chasing up the CID after two years in your position is if there was a chance they were going to let you go this summer.


  • #73
    ohdannyboy
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭ohdannyboy


    theLuggage wrote: »
    Whether or not they belong to another teacher doesn't matter. The Adjudicator (sp?) has ruled a few times that ALL hours in the year prior to being offered a CID should be part of that CID. As long as they were for the entire year.

    Whether the union will want to argue that on your behalf for 40 mins is another matter.

    Also under the new two year rule you would be getting a 7 hr 15 min CID not the 12 hr 10 min presumably - interesting to see how that plays out!

    Yes agreed entirely rainbotrout. I was responding to the luggages comment above that under new recommendations I could be offered the hours I was contracted for in year 2.


  • #74
    theLuggage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 399 ✭✭theLuggage


    Well hopefully you would be getting your 12+hrs. I can see my comment was a bit strong there - it was meant to be more of a musing than you definitely would get only 7+ hrs - I need to read my stuff more throughly before I post!

    Just a note of caution and again I know nothing about the new recommendations, when they come into effect etc, but just ask the union if you are on to them about the hours they would expect you to get. Nothing is ever straightforward with the Dept in my experience!

    And as rainbowtrout says if there are no hours for you next year then the 7+ are definitely better than nothing. And again another point to consider - if that happens and the new recommendations don't come in until Sept, would you be entitled to a two yr CID? As you would have done your years before the recommendations came in? Again this may be covered in the recommendations, I don't know.

    All these issues will probably be a little bit in flux as it comes in and may depend from case to case etc. So definitely ring the union and get their advice on everything. They will know all the angles and rulings from the Adjudicator that may be relevant to your individual case.


  • #75
    ohdannyboy
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭ohdannyboy


    Your comment didn't offend. Ya I've been talking to the union alright. Thanks for the advice. Newish to boards, am finding it very interesting and informative. The "lonely profession" has a voice!


  • #76
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Also is there a circular anywhere to show that the two year ruling has come into effect and how it effects teachers like the OP?

    From what I've been told it effects teachers who just started rpts this year i.e. if you began an RPT in September you must reinterview in summer. Principals have been told this. Not sure how it effects those with 2 years completed.


  • #77
    eduser
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭eduser


    There has been no circular though?


  • #78
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Not yet but principals have been told officially.


  • #79
    markjh
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭markjh


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    Not yet but principals have been told officially.

    When? It's not long ago since I had a conversation with my principal about this. There was no official word on it at all... And she's very in favour of it


  • #80
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    markjh wrote: »
    When? It's not long ago since I had a conversation with my principal about this. There was no official word on it at all... And she's very in favour of it

    Last week.


  • #81
    Hazelnut Button
    Registered Users Posts: 351 ✭✭Hazelnut Button


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    From what I've been told it effects teachers who just started rpts this year i.e. if you began an RPT in September you must reinterview in summer. Principals have been told this. Not sure how it effects those with 2 years completed.

    I began an RPT in September so this would apply to me. Why do you have to reinterview?


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  • #82
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Hazelnut Button wrote: »
    I began an RPT in September so this would apply to me. Why do you have to reinterview?

    That was the recommendation that came out of the committee set up coming from the HRA recommendations.


  • #83
    Hazelnut Button
    Registered Users Posts: 351 ✭✭Hazelnut Button


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    That was the recommendation that came out of the committee set up coming from the HRA recommendations.

    Ah ok. I can understand it in one sense (i.e.if person is not performing) but overall seems like a waste of time in that people will be applying for a job that could already be gone (ie when school is happy with person hired originally).

    Do you have to reinterview after year 2?


  • #84
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Hazelnut Button wrote: »
    Ah ok. I can understand it in one sense (i.e.if person is not performing) but overall seems like a waste of time in that people will be applying for a job that could already be gone (ie when school is happy with person hired originally).

    Do you have to reinterview after year 2?

    No. If you are brought back for a third year you will get your CID. I'd agree on the reinterview and jobs being gone already.


  • #85
    sitstill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭sitstill


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    Not yet but principals have been told officially.

    Told officially, as in by whom? Has the new 2 year CID including career break/secondment been officially notified to Principals also?

    Any idea when we can expect the Circular to be released?


  • #86
    chases0102
    Registered Users Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭chases0102


    Hopefully that Circular will be released soon - it would be great to get a bit of closure on the whole issue.


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