A True & Miserable Story of Ireland's supposed " Upper Class "

pickarooney · 14-12-2012 11:32am

boredsie121 wrote: »

sorry ! But I really, really do appreciate those construtive comments.

SHOULD I REMOVE THE ORIGINAL POST ? OR HOW WOULD I MOVE IT ? I DON'T WANT TO "P" PEOPLE OFF

Quit apologising for crying out loud.

gozunda · 14-12-2012 11:50am

OP - leave your post as it is.
It's a line in the sand - now go forward and get your kids back.

Auldloon · 14-12-2012 11:51am

I read your story. It's definetly on the wrong forum.
Serious advice.
Get this thread deleted.
Play along like a good boy doing all you can to maintain relationship with the mother of your children.
Have the old fart taken care of in such a way that he's afraid of your shadow for the rest of his days.
This guy is ruining people's lives, stand up and ruin his.

bgrizzley · 14-12-2012 11:55am

You should have got all Brokeback on his @ss(not literally though)

Sad story OP, hope it works out for you.

SafeSurfer · 14-12-2012 12:03pm

I read all the story. The bit I dont understand is

We were together for 18 years. We had shared PCs and Laptops and I hers. We were both logged in. Not difficult to see what was going on, and at that stage I was worried how I might get turned over in Irish Family Law, not knowing the situation.

Are you afraid that there is something on the computer or laptop that could be used by Father to keep you from your kids?

I think that the situation is intolerable. But GF could just tell Father to feck off, its not like he is paying for his daughter and grandchildren. Why has your GF chosen Father's wishes over yours? It seems like you have a rather strange relationship with your GF. 18 years together and 2 kids and she moves to another country because daddy tells her to? Something isn't right here.

SafeSurfer · 14-12-2012 12:10pm

Ken Tucky wrote: »

Wow, just wow. I read the whole story. Heart breaking really. I have fast forwarded past all the replies to the end so, sorry if i missed anything in between.

I just got married recently due to the fact i had no rights to my son. Albeit we are all very happy but recently when he had a spell in hospital i couldnt sign a form and i may as well have been the man on the moon. I had no rights!!!!!!!!That could be a big problem for you.

Anyhow, 'Father' sounds like the loneliest person ive ever heard of. Total bell end but these type of people are bullies so i dont need to spell it out for you. I was hoping i was going to read that you did report the kidnapping to the police. That would have been game set and match. May have lost her forever but i suppose that may have happened anyhow.

Its easy to sit here and type- should have, could have or i would have blah blah so i really hope you get your boys back. I know if i didnt get to see my little fella everyday i wanted my life would be so much poorer, and believe me i have fcuk all.

Be strong lad YNWA.

You mean Albert

barbiegirl · 14-12-2012 12:21pm

Definitely wrong forum, however in Ireland you can apply for a couple of things, guardianship which means basically you have a say in your childs education, the child can't leave the country without your say so etc. (this is normally given) and visitation rights, you will also have to pay towards the upkeep of the children, an amount to be set by the courts. Get a good solicitor, but in general the courts don't care about grandparents.
Get your ass in gear and don't let your children grow up without a father.

As to family situation, you have no control over her family. If she loved you she would be with you, end of story. You are well out of it, but it is your responsibility to ensure your children don't suffer the same fate.

As to status and religion I know many people from "upper class" and the protestant fate and they are not like this at all.

Knockout_91 · 14-12-2012 12:27pm

I plead with her to wire a letter.

black francis wrote: »

This was my favourite bit.

It gave the whole story a lovely 1930's spin.

Hahahahah

joydivision · 14-12-2012 12:39pm

Go to the family courts . Youll get access . Dolphin house across from turks head pub just outside temple bar . Im sure the address is online if you google that much info .
Hope this helps . Theres no ifs or buts once you arnt a junkie alco or violent you will get some access .

HellFireClub · 14-12-2012 12:50pm

I think you've just won the Gong for the longest post ever...

CucaFace · 14-12-2012 12:55pm

I read the whole thing.

Its a very sad story and i really feel sorry for you.

BUT :

Man you really needed to grow a pair of balls years ago.

Sorry if that insults you, but if i ever have kids and anyone (grandparents inlcuded) try and take charge or attempt to do anything with my kids without my permission, god help them thats all im saying.

That father should have been put in his place a long long time ago. You should have done that.

And also sorry, but your GF owed you her loyalty, not her Dad.

She is also at fault here.

Knockout_91 · 14-12-2012 12:57pm

CucaFace wrote: »

BUT :

Man you really needed to grow a pair of balls years ago.

And he still does.

He's apologising to people who are directly insulting him in every post. It's unnerving.

14-12-2012 1:16pm

im not reading all that

boredsie121 · 14-12-2012 1:16pm

To answer those questions.

Well, I got in a mess. I got knocked for about 50 K worth of work and expenses. Nobody knows that. Somebody went into liquidation. You never get it then. From then on it was a losing game. But I was burying my head in the sand about the reality of business. Not thinking right. Things started going in ever decreasing circles. I got squeezed. There were credit cards and stuff. I made a right mess. At the end, what I should have done was get an accountant to look at an exit. Sign on. Apply for housing. Pride got in the way.

The "single mother" housing thing freaked her. The lure of a house, paid for was too much of a bribe.

With regard to rights. Unmarried fathers have none in Ireland. The fact they were British citizens became irrelevant once they were there. Taking children from the UK to Ireland. On the UK side it is a Criminal. You can call the police. On the Irish side, I discovered it is a Civil matter, not criminal. Big difference in the eyes of the law.

Regarding the computer comment. No, there was nothing relevant. Let's just say if my best friend happens to come round to my house and uses my PC to look at his Hotmail, and never logs out, if I go to hotmail, I'll see his account, not mine.

HellFireClub · 14-12-2012 1:36pm

Two points worth making.

(1) The signs were there from the very very outset, before there were any children, that you were involving yourself in a highly fúcked up family situation, with a dictatorial father, that you should in all fairness have been planning to extract yourself from, rather than allowing to develop into something like what you now have on your hands. I've seen this happen in my own family, a close relation of mine, at some point early in his relationship, decided to start ignoring the signs that he was entertaining an irrational personality in a partner, and instead of acting on his gut feeling, he meandered along for years, making excuses, making allowances, extending latitude, and is in a somewhat similar situation to yourself, where he now has a life time permanent headache on his hands as he is now a father to this woman's child. He loves the child dearly, like yourself, but is having all sorts of the problems that you are having, particularly with regard to access, but was it all entirely preventable, YES!

boredsie121 wrote: »

So for over three and half years "Father" had interfered in my life. All the while I had been polite and respectful. I wanted to try and reason with him. GF told me, if I had anything to say I had to write it to him, but anyway, he "Didn't Care".

That's a large part of the problem, you were never going to be accepted by this man, or be able to reform the completely fúcked up relationship that his daughter has with him. Hence why I made the point above, that you would have been better off accepting that from the get-go and getting out of the situation at a short term emotional pain to yourself after ending a relationship, rather than having to now go through this lifelong turmoil with two children that you in effect have no access to. Not calling the police to have him arrested at Hollyhead was probably THE biggest fúck up you have made in that whole sorry episode you have posted in your OP, because you gave him the message that in relation to your access to your kids, you were not prepared to assert yourself.

That fúcker would have been on Sky News in handcuffs if it was me he was dealing with, you have voluntarily surrendered all the inherent authority that you possess by virtue of your fatherhood of these two children, and your subtle acceptance of this mans behaviour, to this sap.

Have you explored your right to legal guardianship of your children? By the way, this commits you to a process, the first step of which is DNA tests to confirm paternity, and in relation to what you have stated in your OP in relation to the second child being conceived, (you said you didn't even remember having sex), you could find that you are not the father of the second child at all...

HellFireClub · 14-12-2012 1:40pm

barbiegirl wrote: »

Definitely wrong forum, however in Ireland you can apply for a couple of things, guardianship which means basically you have a say in your childs education, the child can't leave the country without your say so etc. (this is normally given) and visitation rights, you will also have to pay towards the upkeep of the children, an amount to be set by the courts. Get a good solicitor, but in general the courts don't care about grandparents.
Get your ass in gear and don't let your children grow up without a father.

As to family situation, you have no control over her family. If she loved you she would be with you, end of story. You are well out of it, but it is your responsibility to ensure your children don't suffer the same fate.

As to status and religion I know many people from "upper class" and the protestant fate and they are not like this at all.

New legislation has been passed here in Ireland recently that for the first time, does set out a legal right for grandparents to have access to their grandchildren and vice versa, will look up the act now...

boredsie121 · 14-12-2012 1:43pm

Yes. Can't argue much of with that assessment.

Guardianship no. I guess that is for 2013. With regard to the DNA thing. To be honest, I was using a bit of artistic licence or gallows humour ...

HellFireClub · 14-12-2012 1:54pm

boredsie121 wrote: »

Yes. Can't argue much of with that assessment.

Guardianship no. I guess that is for 2013. With regard to the DNA thing. To be honest, I was using a bit of artistic licence or gallows humour ...

Well if I was you, I'd be looking to establish my rights under the legal guardianship route and I would be looking at writing off the mother (your ex partner), and the father, actually the whole lot of them. She made her decision as to how she wanted this situation to unfold, it was always open to her to settle down with you and the kids and make a family out of what you have together, she rejected that option and pandered to "father", the consequence of that in my view is that you don't have and will never have for as long as the father is alive, the family situation that I think you actually subscribe to.

By the way, it seems a bit coincidental that even though she and the 2 kids and the father have moved to this village in the West of Ireland, and you maintained all along that there were no job opportunities there, yet she is now a headmistress in a school, I assume a local school?!? Are you sure that this wasn't actually her idea all along and not "fathers"???

HellFireClub · 14-12-2012 2:03pm

Also, how come the daughter that married the Catholic was disowned, but the daughter (your ex partner), who had two children out of wedlock, isn't disowned? These people who have these outdated class allegiances, are usually a lot more mortified by the latter than the former.

conorhal · 14-12-2012 2:04pm

HellFireClub wrote: »

Two points worth making.

(1) The signs were there from the very very outset, before there were any children, that you were involving yourself in a highly fúcked up family situation, with a dictatorial father, that you should in all fairness have been planning to extract yourself from, rather than allowing to develop into something like what you now have on your hands. I've seen this happen in my own family, a close relation of mine, at some point early in his relationship, decided to start ignoring the signs that he was entertaining an irrational personality in a partner, and instead of acting on his gut feeling, he meandered along for years, making excuses, making allowances, extending latitude, and is in a somewhat similar situation to yourself, where he now has a life time permanent headache on his hands as he is now a father to this woman's child. He loves the child dearly, like yourself, but is having all sorts of the problems that you are having, particularly with regard to access, but was it all entirely preventable, YES!
...

I'd have to agree, the OP seems to be meandering along with barely one foot in his own family life. Who spends 18yrs in a relationship with a woman with whom you have two children and you never bother to marry and move in together. What rights can you assume if you've never taken any responsibility?
It may be trendy to say that 'marriage means nothing', but what people forget is that a marriage has nothing to do with a church and nothing to do with romance, it's a legal contract and it's better to have a contract then be a freelancer when you have children involved.

I suspect that is 'girlfriend' probably craves the stability of a tyrant to waiting for the OP to piss or get off lifes pot.

boredsie121 · 14-12-2012 2:04pm

Yeah. While he is alive, he is like Bagpuss and his family are like the mice on the mouse organ. I think even dead the f**ker would have some sort of hold over them. The mother goes round and says "Father said" and, "that is that".

"Father" remains in Dublin, where he has lived for the past 50 years.

My EX is in the village in the West, with my 2 children. I presume she is on Single Mother benefits.

The headmistress is her other sister. Not the disowned one (who is in Kilkenny). The headmistress also "married out" husband had the law laid down in no uncertain terms by her and he did exactly as told. What happened is she owns the house next door to my EX now as a "Holiday Home". She is a headmistress in Dublin. But with her husband unable to find work in Ireland, he came to the same part of London as my EX worked in. Then Dubai.

Yes, the home thing. I made an awful financial mess of my life. We were just trying to balance as best we could. The marriage thing. It would have been asking for trouble from him. A variety of things conspired to turn bad things worse. If I'd had my time again. But hindsignt is a wonderful thing.

HellFireClub · 14-12-2012 2:14pm

boredsie121 wrote: »

Yeah. While he is alive, he is like Bagpuss and his family are like the mice on the mouse organ. I think even dead the f**ker would have some sort of hold over them. The mother goes round and says "Father said" and, "that is that".

"Father" remains in Dublin, where he has lived for the past 50 years.

My EX is in the village in the West, with my 2 children. I presume she is on Single Mother benefits.

The headmistress is her other sister. Not the disowned one (who is in Kilkenny). The headmistress also "married out" husband had the law laid down in no uncertain terms by her and he did exactly as told. What happened is she owns the house next door to my EX now as a "Holiday Home". She is a headmistress in Dublin. But with her husband unable to find work in Ireland, he came to the same part of London as my EX worked in. Then Dubai.

Yes, but the home thing. I made an awful financial mess of my life. The marriage thing. It would have been asking for trouble. Yes, I'm a dreamer. Whats done is done.

Apologies, I got a bit confused with the OP being fairly elaborate.

The money problems on your side I wouldn't worry about one bit, as you sound like the kind of guy who can get up in the morning and go at whatever is required to turn a few quid. If you work hard, you can make money, nobody in this country is making good money these days, if you can generate a wage for yourself, (and a lot of people can), then you are ticking the only box that needs to be ticked on that front in these times.

You only have one problem here, which is "father". His influence would be negated if you could appeal to your ex partner to put your family on a proper footing in all respects, but what you seem to be describing here is a near commune like set up. If you made this appeal to your ex, you might find that a few years living on the poverty line in a rural isolated setting, might have laid the grounds for a fresh discussion on the whole thing. Then and again, if she is being financially supported by "father", maybe that isn't an angle that will ultimately deliver results, only insofar as she might be lonely and could be open to reason there.

BQQ · 14-12-2012 2:16pm

You should have married her. She gets disowned. You all live happily ever after.

That said, you would need her agreement for that.
I'd echo what others have said about your relationship. 18 years and you still lived seperately? Maybe not your fault; GF seems quite odd.

Whole family seems odd in fact.
Could Father's insistance on inter-faith relations have led to some inbreeding?
(Not a huge amount of Protestants to choose from here)

HellFireClub · 14-12-2012 2:25pm

boredsie121 wrote: »

Yeah. While he is alive, he is like Bagpuss and his family are like the mice on the mouse organ. I think even dead the f**ker would have some sort of hold over them. The mother goes round and says "Father said" and, "that is that".

"Father" remains in Dublin, where he has lived for the past 50 years.

My EX is in the village in the West, with my 2 children. I presume she is on Single Mother benefits.

The headmistress is her other sister. Not the disowned one (who is in Kilkenny). The headmistress also "married out" husband had the law laid down in no uncertain terms by her and he did exactly as told. What happened is she owns the house next door to my EX now as a "Holiday Home". She is a headmistress in Dublin. But with her husband unable to find work in Ireland, he came to the same part of London as my EX worked in. Then Dubai.

Yes, the home thing. I made an awful financial mess of my life. We were just trying to balance as best we could. The marriage thing. It would have been asking for trouble from him. A variety of things conspired to turn bad things worse. If I'd had my time again. But hindsignt is a wonderful thing.

I'm a bit confused, just trying to factor in normal human motivational behaviour here, as to why your ex would be content to raise two kids on her own in a rural setting, as opposed to having you around to be a father figure in the first instance, a partner, and also a provider?

Why would someone sit in a situation such as this, because "father said"? Have you thought about maybe getting someone involved in this situation who might have specialist experience in dealing with a situation such as this, particularly with regard to the extremely harmful psychological aspect of "fathers" behaviour?

What you are dealing with here is really a toxic abusive relationship that is centered on maintaining fear. It might be no harm to get in touch with someone who has good counselling experience in this specific area, just for an exploratory conversation to begin with... I imagine some of the support services that deal with domestic violence, etc, could put you in touch with someone who would have experienced this before, or at least something similar.

boredsie121 · 14-12-2012 2:31pm

Thank you that is food for thought. To be honest. after she had gone, I really started to make more money than I had in my life. You would just not believe the opportunities in London if you look for them. I should qualify that though, as part of the previous years, it was costing me to work, I was in such a negative situation.

I have to take the blame for most things. Basically, she was living in a place owned by them. I was there, but kept out of the way when they occasionally came over. I ran a business. Royally f@@ked up, beyond my wildest imagination, got in so far over my head. After eviction, she was housed as single mother. Then a certain amount of unravelling as she started to think if I was seen that she would be homeless. By rights, father can stay 3 nights anyway. House offered. She can't see further than that. What I should have done is swallowed pride. Gone to the social people, registered, claimed, applied for some sort of housing or made what she had "official". I just honestly had no idea about the benefits system and was probably too proud. Lesson learnt, eventually.

Thanks Guys.

HellFireClub · 14-12-2012 2:36pm

boredsie121 wrote: »

Thank you that is food for thought. To be honest. after she had gone, I really started to make more money than I had in my life. You would just not believe the opportunities in London if you look for them.

I have to take the blame for most things. Basically, she was living in a place owned by them. I was there, but kept out of the way when they came over. I ran a business. Royally f@@ked up, beyond my wildest imagination, got in over my head. Baby > Pregnancy > Eviction, housed as single mother. Then a certain amount of unravelling as she started to think if I was seen that she would be homeless. By rights, father can stay 3 nights anyway. House offered. She can't see further than that. What I should have done is swallowed pride. Gone to the social people, registered, claimed, applied for some sort of housing or made what she had "official". I just honestly had no idea about the benefits system.

Thanks Guys.

There's a lot here to fight for, but you have to sit her down and appeal to her better judgement and I'm thinking that the "disowning" of her by the father, not unlike how it panned out for the other sister, is the kind of situation you need to be trying to ultimately put in place. Are you a Catholic? If so, maybe the two of you getting married would solve the whole problem in one fell swoop!

Being "disowned" is only a problem if you have nice parents.

Madam_X · 14-12-2012 3:13pm

johnwest288 wrote: »

Posh guy from southside, Went to England, dad followed him over and was rude. Someones taking the kids to the Whest for reasons Unknown (maybe to learn irish)
OP Annoyed,
OP's dad is very Posh,
Now OP annoyed and wants to vent on AH with unusually long Post :rolleyes:

How on earth could you have read it that the OP is a posh guy?

Marcusm · 14-12-2012 10:25pm

boredsie121 wrote: »

Thank you that is food for thought. To be honest. after she had gone, I really started to make more money than I had in my life. You would just not believe the opportunities in London if you look for them. I should qualify that though, as part of the previous years, it was costing me to work, I was in such a negative situation.

I have to take the blame for most things. Basically, she was living in a place owned by them. I was there, but kept out of the way when they occasionally came over. I ran a business. Royally f@@ked up, beyond my wildest imagination, got in so far over my head. After eviction, she was housed as single mother. Then a certain amount of unravelling as she started to think if I was seen that she would be homeless. By rights, father can stay 3 nights anyway. House offered. She can't see further than that. What I should have done is swallowed pride. Gone to the social people, registered, claimed, applied for some sort of housing or made what she had "official". I just honestly had no idea about the benefits system and was probably too proud. Lesson learnt, eventually.

Thanks Guys.

I can't help but feel that you were a bit semi-detached from your responsibilities in the past; ie her family housed her and the children and sounds like you did not contribute financially to the family? It's irrelevant as you should have stopped him before he left the country with the kids - as I read it the mother was not physically present and that alone would have been enough for me. THe father was content for her to live what he regarded as an unacceptable life in London but clearly decided that he wanted to exercise more control but not to the extent that he would accommodate his grandchildren within his own home situation. Truly unusual.

confuseddotcom · 14-12-2012 10:35pm

I want to read the opening post but it's edited out now.

Feic it anyways I always miss everything.

It sucks.

Noreen1 · 14-12-2012 11:08pm

confuseddotcom wrote: »

I want to read the opening post but it's edited out now. Feic it anyways I always miss everything. It sucks.

Keep reading. It's quoted, in full, a few posts in.

A True & Miserable Story of Ireland's supposed " Upper Class "

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