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N8/N25/N40 - Dunkettle Interchange [under construction]

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    #392
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    annfield1978 wrote: »
    Was Dunkettle part of the Infrastructure Investment mentioned last year by Government?
    Yes, it was confirmed that full funding would be provided.


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    #393
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    I emailed Simon Coveney in relation to the Dunkettle Interchange & M28 projects and this is the response I received from Paschal Donohue.
    Paschal Donohue/DTTAS wrote:

    At present, TII is assessing how best to progress national projects included in the transport element of the Capital Plan, including the N8/N25 Dunkettle Interchange and the N28 Cork-Ringaskiddy scheme. The timeframe for progressing individiual projects will be decided once that process is completed.

    In the interim I understand TII has allocated a total €1m to the N28 Cork-Ringaskiddy scheme in 2016 which will facilitate the planning process which is currently underway


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    #394
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    AugustusMinimus was right. Traffic approaching the Douglas flyover eastbound in the evenings is now almost as bad as the queue into the Jack Lynch tunnel, and I presume when Dunkettle is sorted the freeflowing traffic westbound will cause a similar issue westbound.

    The next under-built part of the SRR that will be a hot topic when this scheme is done. The amount of money spent on retrospective upgrades to the N40 is simply obscene.


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    #395
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,957 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    marno21 wrote: »
    The amount of money spent on retrospective upgrades to the N40 is simply obscene.

    Hello, M50 in Dublin? We had to drop a billion on it to get it up to scratch.


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    #396
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Hello, M50 in Dublin? We had to drop a billion on it to get it up to scratch.
    Ah yeah, but the money spent on the N40 has been to bring up the N40 to the standard of the pre-upgrade M50. The M50 pre upgrade, had grade seperated signalised roundabouts like the N40 does now yet the N40 has had however much spent on it. (Ignoring the new 3 lane sections here)


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    #397
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,528 ✭✭✭kub


    marno21 wrote: »
    AugustusMinimus was right. Traffic approaching the Douglas flyover eastbound in the evenings is now almost as bad as the queue into the Jack Lynch tunnel, and I presume when Dunkettle is sorted the freeflowing traffic westbound will cause a similar issue westbound.

    Strange one that, is it the physiological thing of going into 2 lanes from 4 or is it caused by those people that shoot up the East Douglas exit and sneak back into the inside lane?


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    #398
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    kub wrote: »
    Strange one that, is it the physiological thing of going into 2 lanes from 4 or is it caused by those people that shoot up the East Douglas exit and sneak back into the inside lane?

    Neither. You have significant amounts of traffic coming from SRR, the Link and Airport Hill. There is simply more traffic than the current arrangement can handle taking into account merging from the Kinsale Roundabout as well.

    It will be worse IMO going the other way in the mornings when both the M28 and Dunkettle Interchange opens. Loads more traffic and the M28 merging with the SRR just before the Douglas Flyover. I also find the morning rush hour to be worse and more concentrated than evening which will make this one worse.

    I asked a Cork Co Co engineer about this. No plan to do anything with the flyover due to difficult build conditions with the stream having to be dealt with.


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    #399
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    Neither. You have significant amounts of traffic coming from SRR, the Link and Airport Hill. There is simply more traffic than the current arrangement can handle taking into account merging from the Kinsale Roundabout as well.

    It will be worse IMO going the other way in the mornings when both the M28 and Dunkettle Interchange opens. Loads more traffic and the M28 merging with the SRR just before the Douglas Flyover. I also find the morning rush hour to be worse and more concentrated than evening which will make this one worse.

    I asked a Cork Co Co engineer about this. No plan to do anything with the flyover due to difficult build conditions with the stream having to be dealt with.
    The North Ring Rd would be my next move, along with the M20 construction. Would take any traffic using the SRR as an actual Cork BP, along with possibly N27/N28/N71 traffic from 6 to 12 O Clock clockwise rather than anti-clockwise.


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    #400
    Leonard Hofstadter
    Registered Users Posts: 5,540 ✭✭✭Leonard Hofstadter


    After the current Cork projects (Mallow relief road, Dunkettle, M28 and Macroom) are done, the M20 has got to be the priority for Cork. Cork cannot wait in the dark ages with no motorway to the third biggest city forever. It would also greatly improve access to Galway, too. Once the M20 is done, Cork will have a proper road not only to Dublin, but all the way up to Tuam as well. That will be massively beneficial to Cork, and will help Cork/Limerick/Galway become a useful counterbalance to Dublin, a kind of 'Western Powerhouse' if you will (similar to the 'Northern Powerhouse' in England, which is actually slowly, but surely, starting to take place with the massive investment in upgrading the rail network between all the main Northern cities and further devolution away from Westminster).


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    #401
    annfield1978
    Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭annfield1978


    Is there any information on the Capital Cost of this scheme?


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    #402
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    annfield1978 wrote: »
    Is there any information on the Capital Cost of this scheme?
    Last estimate was €100m.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/100m-dunkettle-interchange-project-given-green-light-231374.html


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    #403
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://www.kildarestreet.com/committees/?id=2016-06-29a.223

    Recent select committee, spokesman for DTTAS Dominic Mullaney says that Dunkettle will start in 2018/19 followed after that by the M28 scheme.


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    #404
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Does anyone know if there's a plan under this scheme to bridge the old N25 under the M8 to provide an alternative route for designation of the N25 to motorway? Such silliness not bridging it back in the day.


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    #405
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    marno21 wrote: »
    Does anyone know if there's a plan under this scheme to bridge the old N25 under the M8 to provide an alternative route for designation of the N25 to motorway? Such silliness not bridging it back in the day.

    DOes this answer you question?

    Bl5npbVCYAAeWTd.jpg


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    #406
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,957 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    marno21 wrote: »
    Does anyone know if there's a plan under this scheme to bridge the old N25 under the M8 to provide an alternative route for designation of the N25 to motorway? Such silliness not bridging it back in the day.
    I'm pretty sure all movements will be separated. A start date of "2018/2019" means late 2018 so another 2 1/2 years before construction.


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    #407
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Also, AFAIK there are no plans to designate the N25 as M25, much as we'd like to see it for 'blue line' reasons.


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    #408
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    Also, AFAIK there are no plans to designate the N25 as M25, much as we'd like to see it for 'blue line' reasons.
    I have an actual reason for seeing it as M25, nothing to do with blue lines.

    When I drive from Dunkettle to Little Island at 120km/h, I don't want to be driving a few feet away from a cyclist. That's just dangerous. A road that's suitable for 120km/h, and designated as so, same with the Ballincollig BP, should have motorway restrictions applied. If the Ennis BP, M7 Castletown-Nenagh & M8 Glanmire BP are good enough for motorway restrictions then so should the N25.
    tm


    Also, the "old N25" I'm talking about is the single carriageway N25 replaced in the 1990s, it no longer exists from the N8/R639 Dunkettle R/A to the LILO for Little Island just east of the Dunkettle Interchange, it would make an ideal alternative route for the M25.


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    #409
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,066 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    marno21 wrote: »
    I have an actual reason for seeing it as M25, nothing to do with blue lines.

    When I drive from Dunkettle to Little Island at 120km/h, I don't want to be driving a few feet away from a cyclist. That's just dangerous. A road that's suitable for 120km/h, and designated as so, same with the Ballincollig BP, should have motorway restrictions applied. If the Ennis BP, M7 Castletown-Nenagh & M8 Glanmire BP are good enough for motorway restrictions then so should the N25.
    tm

    I don't massively disagree with you, but I can tell you as someone who cycles this route regularly that it's the best option because of a lack of alternative routes. The stretch of "old" N25, or whatever we should call it, through Glounthaune and as far as Carrigtwohill is good quality.

    Carrigtwohill-Midleton does not have a suitable secondary road in its current state. Hence no "R" number, presumably.
    The M8 has the good-quality R639 parallel to it, the Ennis M18 has the R458.

    You mention cyclists, but to be honest a bigger problem might well be "N" or "L" plate drivers, who also aren't allowed on motorways. But it's fine to not want to drive near a cyclist lol.


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    #410
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    hans aus dtschl wrote: »
    I don't massively disagree with you, but I can tell you as someone who cycles this route regularly that it's the best option because of a lack of alternative routes. The stretch of "old" N25, or whatever we should call it, through Glounthaune and as far as Carrigtwohill is good quality.

    Carrigtwohill-Midleton does not have a suitable secondary road in its current state. Hence no "R" number, presumably.
    The M8 has the good-quality R639 parallel to it, the Ennis M18 has the R458.

    You mention cyclists, but to be honest a bigger problem might well be "N" or "L" plate drivers, who also aren't allowed on motorways. But it's fine to not want to drive near a cyclist lol.
    The N25 from Dunkettle to east of Carrigtwohill was built offline (East Cork Parkway) in the 1990s, it has a 120km/h limit and an alternative route for much of its length. East of there is low quality DC to the R630 roundabout, with LILOs, property access & median crossings. A plan to grade seperate this section and build a parallel alternative route was to begin a few years ago but has since been suspended.

    These dual carraigeways may be safer than the old route but they are still no place for cyclists.


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    #411
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Carrigtwohill - Midleton was dualled years ago by slapping a second carriageway down next to the one that was there. Shame the upgrade got canned.

    The Midleton bypass never gets enough credit.... such a forward thinking bit of road when it was built (DC, low quality now, but staggeringly high quality in the 80s when it was built).


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    #412
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,066 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    marno21 wrote: »
    The N25 from Dunkettle to east of Carrigtwohill was built offline (East Cork Parkway) in the 1990s, it has a 120km/h limit and an alternative route for much of its length. East of there is low quality DC to the R630 roundabout, with LILOs, property access & median crossings. A plan to grade seperate this section and build a parallel alternative route was to begin a few years ago but has since been suspended.

    These dual carraigeways may be safer than the old route but they are still no place for cyclists.

    But there's actually no road from the Tivoli side of Dunkettle, marno. Sending the traffic through Glanmire is a no-go as it's already heavily congested. North Esk to Carrigtohill is 120kmh, because that's the only bit that a secondary route exists for.

    I'm speaking as both a cyclist and a motorist, if you're going from City to Carrigtwohill then the N25 is probably equally safe for cyclists as negotiating the narrow congested roads between Dunkettle House and Glanmire village (L2999). On one you have faster traffic but a wide margin and clear sightlines, on the other you have narrow corners, no margin and mostly 80kmh traffic. It is now signed as 50kmh, but it's not a safe road. Most L and N drivers will go N25, indeed I know of L drivers who avoid the L2999.


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    #413
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,064 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Irish Examiner tomorrow saying work will start in 2019/20.


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    #414
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    This is almost ready to go.

    Or would be ready to start tomorrow if they had got off their arses when the Capital Plan was announced and got all the pre-work done.

    2019 is a joke. This and the N28 dualling are needed for the Port of Cork expansion to go ahead, and now the roads to it won't be complete until 2023 or 2024.

    Is there any functioning brain cells at all??


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    #415
    tails_naf
    Registered Users Posts: 861 ✭✭✭tails_naf


    I just saw the proposal and it appears traffic from Dublin going into the city will have to go towards midelton first, through and overpass and then back towards the city. This seems like madness to me. This overpass for the business Park is already jammed up, forcing every city centre bound car from the m8 to use it surely makes little sense. Is this really the final plan?


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    #416
    KCAccidental
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭KCAccidental


    tails_naf wrote: »
    I just saw the proposal and it appears traffic from Dublin going into the city will have to go towards midelton first, through and overpass and then back towards the city. This seems like madness to me. This overpass for the business Park is already jammed up, forcing every city centre bound car from the m8 to use it surely makes little sense. Is this really the final plan?

    Vast Majority of vehicles will use the South Ring, also I think this design is looking to the future of the North Ring road and Port of Cork being moved to Ringaskiddy.


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    #417
    tails_naf
    Registered Users Posts: 861 ✭✭✭tails_naf


    KCAccidental wrote: »
    Vast Majority of vehicles will use the South Ring, also I think this design is looking to the future of the North Ring road and Port of Cork being moved to Ringaskiddy.

    Yes of course the majority will, but my point is its junction at the business Park is already an issue at rush hour. Putting any more traffic through it is surely not ideal. Getting it 90% right for 100 million is a bit of a shame.


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    #418
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    So many movements will be handled automatically. I doubt there will be much traffic on this one alone.

    What is probably need though is a third junction for Little Island at the end where the KFC sign is.


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    #419
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Now that everyone's back and everyone's favourite roads are jammed again, it's no surprise these are still a major issue in the local media.

    http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/ibec-calls-major-cork-road-projects-get-underway/2526413/


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    #420
    pigtown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭pigtown


    It took me 45 minutes to get through here this morning. I wonder is there anything that could be done in the meantime? Would a P & R from the northside be any relief?


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    #421
    Truckermal
    Registered Users Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭Truckermal


    pigtown wrote: »
    It took me 45 minutes to get through here this morning. I wonder is there anything that could be done in the meantime? Would a P & R from the northside be any relief?

    Were you coming from Dublin? I went through about 7.30 and it was backed away up the hill at that time...:rolleyes:


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