Should you be proud of your nationality ?

COYVB · 13-09-2013 1:43am

Funk It wrote: »

Without preaching, I think people should be proud of where they are from. It makes up part of who you are whether you like it or not.

But where they're from is not their own accomplishment or achievement. They can be happy about where they're from, for sure, but pride about something you have no say or influence on makes nosense

brokenarms · 13-09-2013 2:05am

We have a lot to be proud of.

The culture that we grew up in and form a part of, is globally recognised as being friendly , likable and charitable.

The country is not in the best state financially at the moment because of silly mistakes but we will get over them and they should not define us.

Just live in NY for a year . I have never really appreciated where we are from till I spent time there.

COYVB · 13-09-2013 2:52am

brokenarms wrote: »

We have a lot to be proud of.

The culture that we grew up in and form a part of, is globally recognised as being friendly , likable and charitable.

You did none of those things though. It's not because of you, or your friends, or your family that Ireland is seen that way. Why should you be proud of it?

XxMCRxBabyxX · 13-09-2013 2:58am

Artful_Badger wrote: »

You can be proud of a team or achievements or something related to your nationality but I dont get the whole "I'm proud to be Irish" thing. What is there to be proud of in the fact you just happen to be Irish ?

I know this is different to most people but for me being Irish is something that was chosen, albeit by my Irish parents, but they brought me up to be proud to be Irish. I am also proud to have been born where I was and will always have a strong connection to there but I'm still Irish and choose to be so.

Kruse · 13-09-2013 3:05am

National pride is the opium of the ignorant and uneducated.

EdenHazard · 13-09-2013 3:24am

Ahhh this comes up far too much on Boards and each time I have to read boring, depressed loners write the same things about 'it makes no sense to be proud of something I had no say in' Get over yourself, losers!

BTW Irish people(and the accent) is loved the world over, that's reality, whether this love is vindicated I don't know but for whatever reason ireland is loved(although the perception of england as being hated is wrong, I know among young people in France/Germany, English culture is everything there)

Cody Pomeray · 13-09-2013 7:16am

COYVB wrote: »

But where they're from is not their own accomplishment or achievement. They can be happy about where they're from, for sure, but pride about something you have no say or influence on makes nosense

You're appearing to misunderstand the word 'proud' and also confusing the territory with the nationality.

Firstly, the Oxford definition that seems to be escaping people:

Proud: adjective
1 feeling deep pleasure or satisfaction as a result of one’s own achievements, qualities, or possessions or those of someone with whom one is closely associated:
a proud grandma of three boys

So there is nothing in the definition that prevents pride in a third party's attributes. Any belief to that effect stems from a misunderstanding of the word. Secondly, the meaning of nationality:

The Irish Nation is defined in terms of people, not territory. It is especially sensible to be proud of a group of people, in which you participate, who (usually, or on balance) come together to share projects, co-operate and aim to to good works. I think Ireland is one of the highest rank, most benevolent European states in this regard, and therefore my society (i.e Nation) is one that, as a participant, I feel proud of.

brokenarms · 13-09-2013 8:40am

COYVB wrote: »

You did none of those things though. It's not because of you, or your friends, or your family that Ireland is seen that way. Why should you be proud of it?

I did all of those things. I'm sure you did them as well when making conversation with tourists, being abroad or even givin a few pound to charity.

anncoates · 13-09-2013 8:44am

MadsL wrote: »

I feel more of a European, and more proud of European co-operation and the EU than my "own" country.
.

You might need to change your profile tag to something other than exiled so.

:pac:

Frank Lee Midere · 13-09-2013 8:47am

An attachment, maybe. Pride needs to be earned. But I don't think anybody is calling for pride these days.

Rubeter · 13-09-2013 8:51am

A few posts above make the points very well that...
1. You don't have to have actively done something to feel pride in it, Nothing odd about feeling proud of the spectacular views surrounding your house when a visitor gasps in amazement.
2. Unless you live under a rock, then you are part of what makes up the nation, you affect it with your presence just by interacting with people and physically by doing no more weeding your garden.

MadsL · 13-09-2013 8:53am

anncoates wrote: »

You might need to change your profile tag to something other than exiled so.

:pac:

True enough. More of a boards exile/banned joke.

Suggestions?

anncoates · 13-09-2013 9:01am

MadsL wrote: »

Suggestions?

I can't even think of a witty one for myself, let alone anybody else.

Legs.Eleven · 15-09-2013 9:32pm

Yes, I am proud despite how ridiculous it probably is.

Lawrence1895 · 15-09-2013 9:53pm

Of course, I'm proud of my nationality, nothing wrong with that...as long as you are able to accept other nationalities.

tdv123 · 15-09-2013 11:22pm

Yes, were great.

Meangadh · 15-09-2013 11:40pm

Proud probably isn't the right word but I would definitely say that I am glad and thankful to be Irish. It feels a lot like pride though- but I know it's not like I had anything to do with me actually being from here. Still, I'm happy to say proud for want of a better word I suppose.

old hippy · 16-09-2013 12:17pm

EdenHazard wrote: »

Ahhh this comes up far too much on Boards and each time I have to read boring, depressed loners write the same things about 'it makes no sense to be proud of something I had no say in' Get over yourself, losers!

BTW Irish people(and the accent) is loved the world over, that's reality, whether this love is vindicated I don't know but for whatever reason ireland is loved(although the perception of england as being hated is wrong, I know among young people in France/Germany, English culture is everything there)

If I may enquire as to why you think those who don't do the pride thing are "boring, depressed loners/losers"?

Moomoo1 · 16-09-2013 12:19pm

I think you should love your country, culture and your 'national group', for sure. But that, I men the people, not the 'establishment'.

but proud? I dunno.

c-90 · 29-09-2013 8:54pm

Everyone has the right to be proud in they're country, its not pride in a geographical sense it's proud of the collective achievements you and your ancestors/neighbours/children/friends have achieved. we are all part of our society and therefore we all have a role to play in how this country turns out. For example would you not be proud in your children if they were successful? Or say one of your grandparents did something Nobel, would you have no pride in them?

If being proud were to be a simply individual thing than there would be very few things in anyone's life that they could truly claim to be proud of.

However... I am not proud of my country.

Aphex · 29-09-2013 9:21pm

It should not be a chore to be proud of where you come from but a trait that is built into us growing up. I love this country with all my heart. The island of Ireland didn't do anything wrong, it is the people that happen to live in this beautiful country that messed it up!

markomuscle · 29-09-2013 9:32pm

You could find loop holes in your logic, if 'you' were born in another country then you wouldn't be 'you' as you would have different ancestors.
Regarding being proud of your nationality when you have no say over it, you could say the same about people being gay, gay people always say that they were born gay and i'm sure they are proud of being gay also.

Myself, my nationality is Irish-British I think since I was born in Northern Ireland, i'm not particularly proud of it but i'm proud to be an Ulsterman as that's were most of my ancestors were based for centuries.

Iwasfrozen · 29-09-2013 10:11pm

Kristopher Echoing Caterpillar wrote: »

Definitely, we are one of the best nations on the planet. We are loved and respected the world over and punch well above our weight in politics, business and scientific achievements. We have some of the most beautiful scenery the eye can see and you wont find better craic or atmosphere on a night out anywhere else.

Why wouldn't I be proud!

Because you didn't contribute to any of it.

Lux23 · 29-09-2013 10:14pm

The Monaghan Lad · 29-09-2013 11:51pm

Yes you should be proud of you nationally as the Irish nation is one of the best in my opinion, I have lived amongst Irish people for most of life and since I was born in Ireland I consider myself lucky being born in such a beautiful country, I carry dual nationality and I am proud of both.

Killer Wench · 30-09-2013 12:40am

Sure. You can feel pride for your nationality. I'm sure many people feel pride for their state, county, city, neighborhood, and/or family.

old hippy · 30-09-2013 12:21pm

It's so strange. It almost seems childish. Why can't I be proud of other countries as well?

Napper Hawkins · 30-09-2013 12:40pm

old hippy wrote: »

It's so strange. It almost seems childish. Why can't I be proud of other countries as well?

Because!

Now get in line before you depress us all with your lonely loser talk!

old hippy · 30-09-2013 12:46pm

Napper Hawkins wrote: »

Because!

Now get in line before you depress us all with your lonely loser talk!

Can I be proud of my planet?

General General · 30-09-2013 12:59pm

...innnnnnnnnn thhhhhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee nnnnnnnnnnnnnaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee of llllllllllllllllllllllllllllovvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvveeeeeeeeeeeee.

Napper Hawkins · 30-09-2013 12:59pm

old hippy wrote: »

Can I be proud of my planet?

No, it's mine.

30-09-2013 12:59pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Because you didn't contribute to any of it.

How do you know I didn't and why can someone not be proud of their countries achievements even if they weren't involved in them?

anncoates · 30-09-2013 1:03pm

Depends on what you mean.

It's OK when it's a mutual knowledge/experience of heritage and background and the benign affinity that comes with that.

It's not OK when it leads to flag-waving or when other other more relevant affinities (humanity, class, etc) are subsumed by nationalism.

Agricola · 30-09-2013 1:13pm

Things Im proud of;

Ireland is recognised as a welcoming place full of friendly and hospitable people.

We gained independence and eventually fashioned a high growth economy which raised the standard of living hugely, sent thousands to 3rd level who would normally never have had the means to go and generally put the country in the bracket of affluent western societies. If you don't agree, go ask anyone over 60. Despite the recession we are a hell of a lot better off than people here in the 40s and 50s.

We threw off the shackles of the church and no longer live in a benign theocracy.

Things Im not proud of;

The breed of cretin who invariably gets into positions of power in Ireland.

The bigger, brasher, more more more mindset which was typified by the boom years.

A general lack of respect for the landscape, wildlife and natural resources of the country. Basically anything is fair game for exploitation in the name of the mighty euro.

Kilgore__Trout · 30-09-2013 1:25pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granfalloon

Jamsiek · 30-09-2013 2:15pm

If you're living abroad like I am, you can be proud to be Irish.
However I can also see how people aren't proud of the way Ireland is right now.

Shenshen · 30-09-2013 2:24pm

SHOULD you be? As in, is there a moral obgliation?

No.

Can you be? Sure, why not?
I never understood it, myself, I always assumed people are proud of things they have actually helped achieve, but I suppose some people like being proud of what other people did and like finding similarities, such as carrying that same coloured passport.

Seaneh · 30-09-2013 2:43pm

I don't see how you can be "proud" of falling out of a vagina in a certain geographical area.
You didn't do anything to be proud of, you were just born there, you've no reason to have "pride".

Can you feel privileged to be from certain countries, sure, when you look at the world, I'm glad I was born in Ireland and not somewhere like Lesotho or Myanmar or North Korea, but I'm not proud of it, where I was born doesn't make me any more special of different than people from other countries, more privileged, more thankful, yes, proud, no.

Itwasntme. · 30-09-2013 2:52pm

I didn't reply to this thread before because I was afraid of sounding like a dunce but I am proud of my nationality and there's nothing wrong with that.

I was born in exile, where we were treated like scum. Being a refugee sucked. We fought long and hard and lost countless people in the struggle to get back to the homeland and I am proud of being Rwandan because our identity as a people is what kept us going when everything seemed bleak.

ballsymchugh · 30-09-2013 2:56pm

Seaneh wrote: »

Can you feel privileged to be from certain countries, sure, when you look at the world, I'm glad I was born in Ireland and not somewhere like Lesotho or Myanmar or North Korea, but I'm not proud of it, where I was born doesn't make me any more special of different than people from other countries, more privileged, more thankful, yes, proud, no.

if you were born into a loyal family in north korea, you'd be extremely proud for being part of the country that 'repelled the imperialist yankees'.

whatever about being proud, i'm certainly not embarrassed about where i'm from.

old hippy · 30-09-2013 3:08pm

Itwasntme. wrote: »

I didn't reply to this thread before because I was afraid of sounding like a dunce but I am proud of my nationality and there's nothing wrong with that.

I was born in exile, where we were treated like scum. Being a refugee sucked. We fought long and hard and lost countless people in the struggle to get back to the homeland and I am proud of being Rwandan because our identity as a people is what kept us going when everything seemed bleak.

I suppose that's not a perspective that we often see on boards. Thanks for sharing that. I get scared when pride leads to people acting dominant over others.

C14N · 30-09-2013 6:31pm

It's one of those things where I actually often find myself proud to be Irish and of my Irishness but in reality it makes no sense at all. I didn't pick the country and any contributions I might have made, good or bad, are negligible at best. I think a bit of instinctive pride in your country is perfectly fine but people can go a bit overboard sometimes.

Kev_2012 · 30-09-2013 6:37pm

I was born in the UK and grew up in Ireland since the age of 3. Im proud to be Irish. There are very few other nationalities that I find to have a balance of friendliness and banter as the Irish as a whole. I'm moving back to Ireland next year from Canada and the people are a large part of the reasoning behind the move! Just wish we could get rid of the scobes!

H3llR4iser · 30-09-2013 6:55pm

People should be proud of their own achievements, if any, and popping out of a vagina in one place rather than another one is no achievement in any sense. The only understandable scenario is the one Itwasntme explained, but it's fair to say that most of the people claiming to be "proud to be ..." did not experience such events.

The kind of nationalism that spawns from people being "proud" of being born somewhere specific is usually extremely negative and includes disrespecting and often ridiculing other cultures and nationalities.

Now, there's nothing wrong about identifying with a certain nationality, as long as people don't beat the drum into oblivion and/or have double standards about it.

For obvious reasons I can speak about Italians: nationalistic to the extreme while never admitting it, always disrespecting and ridiculing every other nationality and culture, well ready to mistake personal success for national success.

Yet, when it counts, they flock en-masse to buy German and French cars, not to mention the readiness to jump to accusations of chauvinism towards any other country (US, France and UK are the main targets, but it could really be any).

C14N · 30-09-2013 11:12pm

Personally, I hate in the Irish-language debates hearing "you should be proud of your heritage" as a reason to want to speak Irish. I don't consider that language part of my heritage or culture. I'd have to go pretty far back to find a relative who spoke Irish first if they even exist. None of my grandparents even know relatives who spoke Irish, and they were all from the west too. Seems like I could just as easily have Roman ancestors and I should learn Latin because of that.

lufties · 01-10-2013 1:56am

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Simply question do you think you should be proud of you nationality ?
I ask because my veiw is you have no say in where you are born so why should you be proud of it ? everyone has to be born somewhere,
I don't mind being Irish but im not proud of it as i didn't do anything to become Irish ,
What do you people think ?
Should you be PROUD of your Nationality ?

That's an interesting question. I am proud of certain achievements and my positive traits, I do think as a collective for whatever reason, Irish people have a holier than thou attitude and its like a competition to be the most pure and wholesome one of all, which makes me cringe. 'Ah shur aren't we great, everyone loves us'. I also think our self serving government is a mirror on Irish society.

Sometimes I would prefer to be a different nationality, one of a progressive country that looks outwards rather than narrowly inwards, The Dutch could be an example as they are socially mature generally.

I think being Irish though we are very adaptable because of our poor history and have a 'can do' attitude, This doesn't make me proud of my nationality though. There is good and bad in every part of the world

lufties · 01-10-2013 2:06am

Agricola wrote: »

Things Im proud of;

Ireland is recognised as a welcoming place full of friendly and hospitable people.

We gained independence and eventually fashioned a high growth economy which raised the standard of living hugely, sent thousands to 3rd level who would normally never have had the means to go and generally put the country in the bracket of affluent western societies. If you don't agree, go ask anyone over 60. Despite the recession we are a hell of a lot better off than people here in the 40s and 50s.

As far as I'm aware, when Ireland joined the EU the country took shape as they gave us so much money for infastructure etc.

You are right though, it would be great to get rid of the sleeveens in government.

Should you be proud of your nationality ?

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