Handwriting decipher thread must post link to full page

shanew · 13-07-2015 8:21am

possible civil marriage index entry for Daniel and Mary ?

Name: Daniel Shea
Registration Quarter/Year: Jan-Mar 1884
Registration district: Cahirsiveen
Volume: 5 / Page : 45

One of the possible brides is a Mary Donnelly

montgo · 13-07-2015 9:29am

I'm am trying to work out the name of 2nd sponsor. here, year 1811 and date looks like March 11 (lower half of page, left side).

"Thomas of Thomas Hinan, etc........................ son of Wm. Brien of Monemore" could it be Anastasia (or similar) of Wm Purcell of 2nd place ie Monemore or am I way off?

Thx

KildareFan · 13-07-2015 9:47am

could it be Mary Barrell of Wm Barrell of se [same] place? This register is great because it gives information on relationships of the sponsors as well....

montgo · 13-07-2015 9:57am

Yes, some of the early baptisms give additional information on the sponsors. The sponsor of a sister of my ancestor born 1811 was recorded as "brother in law" which was helpful.

I've been trying to find Pat/Patrick records closeby to compare the "P" but surprising that there weren't any but a a number with the name "Batt" which I thought were Bartholomew but could be Patrick. I have never found any surname "Barrell" before in this parish.

P. Breathnach · 13-07-2015 10:47am

montgo wrote: »

... could it be Anastasia (or similar) of Wm Purcell ...

KildareFan wrote: »

could it be Mary Barrell of Wm Barrell of se [same] place? This register is great because it gives information on relationships of the sponsors as well....

montgo, I think you have been reading an ampersand (&) as a capital A. I'd go with KildareFan on Mary, but the surname might be Burrell (the scribe generally closes his "a"s).

montgo · 13-07-2015 11:15am

Hi,
You might well be correct.

I've attached another Purcell record from 1810 for comparison?

P. Breathnach · 13-07-2015 1:10pm

montgo wrote: »

Hi,
You might well be correct.

I've attached another Purcell record from 1810 for comparison?

I scrolled through a few pages of your first link, and I think it is an idiosyncrasy of the scribe that his P is difficult to distinguish from his B. Yes, I now think the name is Purcell.

montgo · 13-07-2015 3:34pm

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I scrolled through a few pages of your first link, and I think it is an idiosyncrasy of the scribe that his P is difficult to distinguish from his B. Yes, I now think the name is Purcell.

Many thanks.

Aineoil · 13-07-2015 5:04pm

shanew wrote: »

possible civil marriage index entry for Daniel and Mary ?

Name: Daniel Shea
Registration Quarter/Year: Jan-Mar 1884
Registration district: Cahirsiveen
Volume: 5 / Page : 45

One of the possible brides is a Mary Donnelly

Shane, Thank you so much for sourcing that information for me. It's much

appreciated. It looks like that they are my great grandparents. On the 1911

census it was recorded that they were married 27 years which would mean

they were married in 1884.

shanew · 13-07-2015 6:32pm

Aineoil wrote: »

Shane, Thank you so much for sourcing that information for me. It's much

appreciated. It looks like that they are my great grandparents. On the 1911

census it was recorded that they were married 27 years which would mean

they were married in 1884.

I had a quick look on IrishGenealogy for the parish record for this marriage around 1884, but didn't spot anything. The civil cert should help your search, as it will show which church the marriage took place in, and the current residences for the bride and groom, along with their father's names and names of witnesses..

parts of parishes other than Cahirsiveen could be included in the registration district of Cahirsiveen - e.g. Valencia, Dromod, Prior and Kilcrohane

Aineoil · 13-07-2015 8:14pm

shanew wrote: »

I had a quick look on IrishGenealogy for the parish record for this marriage around 1884, but didn't spot anything. The civil cert should help your search, as it will show which church the marriage took place in, and the current residences for the bride and groom, along with their father's names and names of witnesses..

parts of parishes other than Cahirsiveen could be included in the registration district of Cahirsiveen - e.g. Valencia, Dromod, Prior and Kilcrohane

Again thanks for searching for me. I really appreciate the fact that you took the time to search for me.

I searched the church records myself and I found the names and dates of birth of my grandfather and his siblings, which was a great help.

Many thanks to the person that transcribed those records. It must have been a painstaking labour.

On a more poignant note two of my great grandparents, James and Catherine, must have died as young children, just looking at the census returns.

My father never knew he had an aunt and uncle by those names. They aren't even recorded on the family headstone. I suppose times were different and people didn't like to talk about things like that.

On another note I feel bad asking my dad all these questions when he doesn't really have answers for me and the information he has is vague - not his fault, but I think people didn't talk about things like that years ago. I would love to ask him if he knew the names of his own grandfather's siblings. I am new to genealogy and I don't want to put him under any pressure. But he's curious too and asks me if I have found out any new information.

He did ring me yesterday to say that Daniel Shea's parents were James Shea and Mary Galvin. He thinks they built the farm house in Clahanelinahan, Caherciveen.

Sorry for such a long post.

Hermy · 13-07-2015 9:32pm

Aineoil wrote: »

...On another note I feel bad asking my dad all these questions when he doesn't really have answers for me and the information he has is vague - not his fault, but I think people didn't talk about things like that years ago. I would love to ask him if he knew the names of his own grandfather's siblings. I am new to genealogy and I don't want to put him under any pressure. But he's curious too and asks me if I have found out any new information...

He's curious too so don't feel bad.
If he was vague the first time you asked him I dare say he'll think of some more things the more you talk about the old times, especially if you've been able to dig out some names and places he had forgotten about.
That was my experience with my late mother. She'd swear she was no help cause she remembered nothing but when we'd get chatting she'd suddenly recall all sorts of apparently trivial but very useful info.

tabbey · 14-07-2015 7:19pm

Aineoil, ask your father and other relatives as much as you can. My parents were dead a quarter of a century by the time I took up genealogy/ family history. All uncles and aunts had similarly departed. Starting when these are alive and alert can save a lot of time and effort.

Aineoil · 14-07-2015 7:52pm

tabbey wrote: »

Aineoil, ask your father and other relatives as much as you can. My parents were dead a quarter of a century by the time I took up genealogy/ family history. All uncles and aunts had similarly departed. Starting when these are alive and alert can save a lot of time and effort.

Thanks for that post tabbey. I agree with you completely, asking existing relatives saves a lot of time when trying to conduct research about the past.

My father, aged 80, is the only one I can ask about the past.

He does have two younger sisters who made their lives abroad long ago.

They left Ireland as teenagers to go to London and train as nurses in the late 1950's early 1960s. Sad to say I have never known my aunts on my father's side of the family.

Their mother (my granny) was a tough woman. Reading between the lines and hearing little bits of trivia like Hermy said are very interesting - I think they left because she wasn't a nice person and made them work very hard on the farm as in being made to get up at 6 in the morning to feed the geese as young girls.

I remember granny vaguely, I was 6 when she died. My memory of her was as a very headstrong woman.

Just a story, but when she made her will, she wanted to leave just one schilling to both of her daughters. Thankfully my father and mother talked her out of it.

Genealogy research brings out all sort of things.

L1011 · 14-07-2015 8:07pm

The two aunts in the UK could be contactable if you wanted to try - based on what I assume their age would be, if you can find any info it'd be their children you'd probably reach and you may want to try a physical letter if you get contact details.

Hermy · 14-07-2015 8:09pm

Aineoil wrote: »

Genealogy research brings out all sort of things.

This is so very true.

P. Breathnach · 14-07-2015 9:43pm

Aineoil wrote: »

... Genealogy research brings out all sort of things.

That is does.

Wait until you start into court and prison records. My great-grandfather was convicted over 100 years ago for having an unlicensed dog. The shame of it!

L1011 · 14-07-2015 10:27pm

P. Breathnach wrote: »

That is does.

Wait until you start into court and prison records. My great-grandfather was convicted over 100 years ago for having an unlicensed dog. The shame of it!

I've got a recidivist sheep-on-the-public-highway transgressor on my mothers mothers side. At least her fathers side were fine upstanding court clerks (and IRA Court judges during the war of independence...) to cancel it out!

montgo · 14-07-2015 10:30pm

Help please with Latin translation Page 29 - 2nd record right hand page

??? (In E de G - in Church of Glenroe maybe) ??? Thomas Lee & Margaret Ryan. Sps Thomas Ryan & Brigida Lee of Ballintubber. Married to Hanora Tobin Feb 24 1914

Hermy · 14-07-2015 10:40pm

First bit before the bracket maybe infa Rector bap

Joannes could be the underlined name.

montgo · 14-07-2015 10:43pm

Many thanks, Hermy

Hermy · 14-07-2015 10:47pm

Agree with you on the names.

montgo · 14-07-2015 10:53pm

Yes, I've just checked and it is John who married Hanora Tobin in 1914. Thx

L1011 · 15-07-2015 10:57pm

http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635228#page/77/mode/1up - what is written after the brides name on all these weddings?

Edw Duffy and [I know her name is Elizabeth] Lennon in February 1844 is mine. It might just be "present" for the witnesses but I'm not sure.

Rootsireland have that marriage transcribed as April 1844 when it clearly isn't, so this has helped tidy stuff up at least!

Hermy · 15-07-2015 11:00pm

For some of them at least it looks like Present.

P. Breathnach · 15-07-2015 11:21pm

Hermy wrote: »

For some of them at least it looks like Present.

Agreed, and I think it refers to the witnesses.

clashburke · 15-07-2015 11:29pm

CeannRua wrote: »

I wonder if this might mean that the child was baptised by his father, and that the father bore witness to same. Are there notations about dues paid to the priest on the page and is there any difference between the fee paid for this baptism and others?

Taking validi as a mistake for valide, it should be something something like: 'By ceremony only, because he was validly baptized by the father, the father providing testimony [of this fact].'

Or maybe: 'By ceremony only, the father providing testimony that he was validly baptized by the father.'

After a bit of a debate on a Latin translation forum this is their current thinking. You werent far away!!

Hermy · 15-07-2015 11:30pm

P. Breathnach wrote: »

...refers to the witnesses.

Exactly.

CeannRua · 16-07-2015 7:33am

montgo wrote: »

Help please with Latin translation Page 29 - 2nd record right hand page

??? (In E de G - in Church of Glenroe maybe) ??? Thomas Lee & Margaret Ryan. Sps Thomas Ryan & Brigida Lee of Ballintubber. Married to Hanora Tobin Feb 24 1914

The second and third words are 'Pastor bap.' I think the first word mostly reads 'Inf.' This is a guess: inf is used as an abbreviation of infrascriptus so it would mean 'The undersigned priest baptised...' Think you're right about 'E de G.'

montgo · 16-07-2015 10:34am

CeannRua wrote: »

The second and third words are 'Pastor bap.' I think the first word mostly reads 'Inf.' This is a guess: inf is used as an abbreviation of infrascriptus so it would mean 'The undersigned priest baptised...' Think you're right about 'E de G.'

Many thanks for that.

I've just read that the church in Ballyorgan wasn't built until 1857. However, "according to Begley, the old parish of Darragh (now Glenroe) included Farrihy, Kildorrery and Mullahy. All three of these places are in the county of Cork" so might explain why the priest recorded the church where the baptism took place.

Handwriting decipher thread *must post link to full page*

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