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how much to charge for grinds?

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  • 03-08-2014 12:36am
    #1
    sky1234
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭


    hi, I'm a qualified teacher with three years experience. I want to give grinds this year but don't know what is an acceptable price to charge. I have heard teachers charge up to 40 which I thought was very expensive.

    Also, any ideas where I could advertise?


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    #2
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Have a look at this recent thread on roughly the same questionGRINDS.

    There's also a mega grinds thread in the leaving Cert. forum to advertise. HERE if you want to try that.

    I think once you get going then it's mostly by word of mouth. Theres probably a load of grind websites out there now you can sign up to. local paper, library,shop...


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    #3
    Powerhouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭Powerhouse


    sky1234 wrote: »
    hi, I'm a qualified teacher with three years experience. I want to give grinds this year but don't know what is an acceptable price to charge. I have heard teachers charge up to 40 which I thought was very expensive.

    Also, any ideas where I could advertise?

    To be honest the only acceptable charge is what you are happy with (and can get obviously). I've done a few grinds in my time and it's 'handy money' only in theory. It can be very tiring after a long day and somtimes you can incur associated petrol expenses and even food expenses that will eat into your grind money. A few years ago, I did a grind on a Saturday morning for a girl for €25 per hour because she was in my school. To be honest I quickly began to feel it was not enough to justify the early start on a Saturday after a tiring week but stuck at it anyway. From experience I would advise someone against coming over all ethical and charging low as some kind of statement. Done properly it is tiring, demanding and very beneficial for students. A cleaner in a house would charge €20-€30 per hour. A plumber would probably double that. I've paid doctors €50+ for five minutes' consultation so that I could get a prescription for medication for a sore throat I could have diagnosed myself. You have to ask in that context what value you place on your skills and time. I have a wife and family and quite value my free time as it's limited. That's a consideration too. There is no "acceptable" price per se. If peope could get €100 an hour presumably they'd charge that. Any rational actor will aim for the highest price they can command. For what it's worth - anecdotally in the current environment €40 would seem quite good. But I would think that anything under €30 is not great. But circumstances differ - if someone is unemployed/on low hours-wages and has very low costs including opportunity cost then what they deem decent is another matter. At any rate I would always advise against racing to the bottom on price. You don't want to pitch so low as to get the gig and then resent the price when the novelty wears off and wintry nights kick in.


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    #4
    radar0976
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭radar0976


    sky1234 wrote: »
    hi, I'm a qualified teacher with three years experience. I want to give grinds this year but don't know what is an acceptable price to charge. I have heard teachers charge up to 40 which I thought was very expensive.

    Also, any ideas where I could advertise?

    I have been giving grinds in computer programming for many years at 3rd level. I charge €35 / hr which to me seems fair and I get plenty of business. I certainly think anything over €40 is pushing it.


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    #5
    linguist
    Registered Users Posts: 615 ✭✭✭linguist


    Just a thought depending on your subject area - have you given any consideration to nightclasses?

    I find them personally rewarding and financially they're ok. Put it like this: they're taxed so you take a hit in that sense but the taxman is seriously onto grinds and the chance of getting caught for undeclared grinds is not insignificant. If you think about it, what is there to stop a parent who engages you this year from reporting you next year particularly if they're not happy with the outcome?

    Nightclasses run across VEC and community schools and they're usually very encouraging of new people interested in getting involved. They are self-financing meaning you need a minimum number (usually 8 full fee people since pensioners or those on social welfare pay less). However, the school does the advertising for you and some are excellent at that. You can always advertise a little yourself provided you direct potential students to the adult education office for registration. Plus, the experience of teaching adults is really interesting.

    Irish, languages, sports, cookery etc. They're all out there.


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    #6
    seavill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭seavill


    You can always self declare grinds with revenue if worried about that


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    #7
    linguist
    Registered Users Posts: 615 ✭✭✭linguist


    True seavill, but I wish they'd make it easier!! You can't just add income on paye anytime - I have issues with that for my SEC work and even things like after school study sometimes. I actually have to post in P60s, statements of earnings etc. The grinds thing is that bit harder - you devote enough time to preparing the grind without the pain of keeping detailed accounts as well!


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    #8
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    seavill wrote: »
    You can always self declare grinds with revenue if worried about that
    I don't like the way you've had to phrase this as though it's optional. I'm not criticising you seavill but I am very critical of the notion that doing grinds and not paying tax on your earnings is somehow acceptable as long as you don't get caught. Like linguist said, it should be made easy for teachers to do this so as not to give people an excuse not to.

    On the OP's situation, I'd say you should charge as much as you can get. One of the reasons I don't do grinds is because I don't feel that I will get the money my time is worth. I (like most of you) am highly qualified and experienced and as such, even if I got €40 an hour, that's only €20 after tax and my time is worth more than that. I don't intend to revise that view until I can either get paid as much as I'm worth or until I can't afford not to and right now, neither applies.

    Don't be afraid of overcharging if people are willing to pay OP. You're a highly educated, highly skilled professional. You deserve every cent you make (probably).


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    #9
    seavill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭seavill


    That is not what I said my post was in response to the one before which stated about someone being worried about someone reporting out of spite or something I was simply saying that there is a route to self declare which no one had mentioned so its important for people to have all the information.

    No where did I said that not paying taxes is acceptable in fact I was saying the complete opposite, you can set up as self employed on top of your normal job and earn a certain amount each year from a 2nd job witout being taxed on it, its either about 2200 or 3200 I cant remember exactly it has been a few years since I had to do it


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    #10
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    seavill wrote: »
    That is not what I said ....
    I know. I wasn't saying you were condoning it (I thought I made that clear but maybe I didn't) but more that I thought you felt you had to phrase it as though it was optional because the attitude of so many teachers seems to be that paying taxes on your grinds was the government cheating you in some way.


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    #11
    seavill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭seavill


    No I didn't feel I had to phrase it any way it was just a statement to younger teachers who might not know how to deal with it. Just as easy as that nothing more to it.


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    #12
    Sciscitatio
    Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭Sciscitatio


    When I was in school, I had to get grinds, cost my parents 40-50 euro, now I give the odd grind myself at UNI level and I don't like to charge more than 25 euro (id even consider dropping to 15 in some cases).
    I enjoy teaching and I think anything over 40 is just not fair on the family or the student.


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    #13
    starlit
    Registered Users Posts: 12,340 ✭✭✭✭starlit


    I was going to grinds a few years ago and it was €20. Teachers can charge what they like a bit like driving lessons depends on the subjects/teacher.


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    #14
    gaeilgebeo
    Registered Users Posts: 909 ✭✭✭gaeilgebeo


    Sciscitatio wrote: »
    When I was in school, I had to get grinds, cost my parents 40-50 euro, now I give the odd grind myself at UNI level and I don't like to charge more than 25 euro (id even consider dropping to 15 in some cases).
    I enjoy teaching and I think anything over 40 is just not fair on the family or the student.

    You would find very few highly trained professionals that would consider charging €15 for services.
    How is it not fair when the doctor/dentist/plumber etc charge premium rates for their services?


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    #15
    Moody_mona
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭Moody_mona


    I can't imagine someone charging €15 would pay tax either, you'd only be earning €7 ish.


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    #16
    daviecronin
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭daviecronin


    gaeilgebeo wrote: »
    You would find very few highly trained professionals that would consider charging €15 for services.
    How is it not fair when the doctor/dentist/plumber etc charge premium rates for their services?

    I think it's the person and what they feel comfortable with. We can't tar all doctors and dentists with one brush. People might feel guilty charging more than x amount and others would never consider that. In this day and age personally I think over €30 is pushing it! But it's the person I suppose


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    #17
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    gaeilgebeo wrote: »
    You would find very few highly trained professionals that would consider charging €15 for services.
    How is it not fair when the doctor/dentist/plumber etc charge premium rates for their services?

    I don't disagree with you gaeilgebeo, but I think grinds is a little different from the point of view that a college student could effectively give grinds in a subject they have a degree or higher qualification in without having a teaching qualification. Obviously there could be a trade off if that person doesn't have teaching experience and the grind is for the Leaving Cert and they lack familiarity with the exam process. Then again if you want to practice your oral Irish and they are doing an Irish degree and the person is a native Irish speaker you might find their tuition sufficient, without the need for them to hold a teaching qualification.

    On the other hand you wouldn't go to any randomer with a degree in Biology to get your tooth pulled, you would go to a qualified dentist as they have been trained to do so. So it's more of a closed shop and they can afford to charge what they like for their professional services. Also because they have the authority to write prescriptions, it's necessary to go to a qualified practitioner if medication is needed.

    Grinds is more of an open market so is open to more fluctuations in price with a variety of qualifications among grinds teachers.


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    #18
    gaeilgebeo
    Registered Users Posts: 909 ✭✭✭gaeilgebeo


    Very true rainbowtrout.
    I suppose I'm coming from the qualified experienced point of view, in that I would charge €30.
    I can see where others might charge less.
    I'm retired from grinds now anyway. :D


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    #19
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    gaeilgebeo wrote: »
    Very true rainbowtrout.
    I suppose I'm coming from the qualified experienced point of view, in that I would charge €30.
    I can see where others might charge less.
    I'm retired from grinds now anyway. :D

    Same as.


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    #20
    Sciscitatio
    Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭Sciscitatio


    gaeilgebeo wrote: »
    You would find very few highly trained professionals that would consider charging €15 for services.
    How is it not fair when the doctor/dentist/plumber etc charge premium rates for their services?

    I don't think any student should need grinds, the system is failing them if they do.
    Doctors are not comparable in anyway!!
    If you want to charge premium rates, one can go consult! Constants' in saying business can get 500-1000 a day. A student on the other hand really should not need to pay premium rates for a service they are already paying for school or Uni. Your comparison is flawed. I don't go to the dentist and pay them, then go to another dentist and pay them more just to tell me what the other one did!


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    #21
    gaeilgebeo
    Registered Users Posts: 909 ✭✭✭gaeilgebeo


    Sciscitatio wrote: »
    I don't think any student should need grinds, the system is failing them if they do!

    That is a whole other argument entirely.
    One with many many strands to it.

    Some students need extra help because they are weak at a subject, have learning difficulties, need one to one to achieve a grade needed for a particular course.

    Our system is certainly flawed in many ways, but you can't surmise that the whole system is failing a student who needs grinds.


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    #22
    Sciscitatio
    Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭Sciscitatio


    gaeilgebeo wrote: »
    That is a whole other argument entirely.
    One with many many strands to it.

    Some students need extra help because they are weak at a subject, have learning difficulties, need one to one to achieve a grade needed for a particular course.

    Our system is certainly flawed in many ways, but you can't surmise that the whole system is failing a student who needs grinds.

    Ya ok, fair point :)


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    #23
    Twas Not
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 225 ✭✭Twas Not


    sky1234 wrote: »
    hi, I'm a qualified teacher with three years experience. I want to give grinds this year but don't know what is an acceptable price to charge. I have heard teachers charge up to 40 which I thought was very expensive.

    Also, any ideas where I could advertise?

    Don't forget you need to pay PAYE, USC & PRSI on that so expect to get less than half that net.


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    #24
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    Sciscitatio wrote: »
    I don't think any student should need grinds, the system is failing them if they do.
    Most of my students who get grinds don't need them. They just need to put some effort into doing their homework etc.

    The situation isn't strictly like a doctor or a dentist but then, how much do chiropractors and homeopaths charge? How much do personal trainers charge? A household cleaner would charge €10 an hour and you'd consider €15 for something that actually requires education and specialist knowledge?

    Even if I accepted that schools are doing a poor jobs and that students need grinds (and I don't), their school's performance has nothing to do with me and I wouldn't feel the least bit guilty for charging what I feel I'm worth.


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    #25
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    RealJohn wrote: »
    Most of my students who get grinds don't need them. They just need to put some effort into doing their homework etc.

    The situation isn't strictly like a doctor or a dentist but then, how much do chiropractors and homeopaths charge? How much do personal trainers charge? A household cleaner would charge €10 an hour and you'd consider €15 for something that actually requires education and specialist knowledge?

    Even if I accepted that schools are doing a poor jobs and that students need grinds (and I don't), their school's performance has nothing to do with me and I wouldn't feel the least bit guilty for charging what I feel I'm worth.

    Puzzled? if they don't need them, then why would someone be taking their money?

    Maybe its the snowball trend. I know what you mean though, ive given a class a bit of a dressing down before when I heard mutterings of grinds, they were just taking the proverbial but they copped on after my rant.

    Probably the next topic for media fodder once class sizes start to rocket....


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    #26
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,412 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    It all depends if students come to you or you to them hence travel times. I used to hate them as everyone had a "crap" teacher but good proportion didn't need grinds but to follow their teacher. I admired kids who wanted a grind or two to sort out issues but always got concerned when students wanted grinds for whole year


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    #27
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    Oh I think that a student who might have missed a certain section and fallen behind as a result might need a 'grind' (or more of a 'catch-up' course of sorts) but I don't like the attitude that I see in many of my own students that grinds will make up for their lack of effort through second year/fifth year/whenever it is that they didn't bother to apply themselves. They might but it's an awful waste of money when they should have just put the effort in in the first place.

    Of course that's a bit rich coming from me given that I wasn't exactly the most diligent student in the world myself but then again, I also never got a grind in any subject at any level so maybe I didn't have to be.


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    #28
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    RealJohn wrote: »
    Oh I think that a student who might have missed a certain section and fallen behind as a result might need a 'grind' (or more of a 'catch-up' course of sorts) but I don't like the attitude that I see in many of my own students that grinds will make up for their lack of effort through second year/fifth year/whenever it is that they didn't bother to apply themselves. They might but it's an awful waste of money when they should have just put the effort in in the first place.

    Of course that's a bit rich coming from me given that I wasn't exactly the most diligent student in the world myself but then again, I also never got a grind in any subject at any level so maybe I didn't have to be.

    A lot do seem to think that they can sit back and do nothing in class because they are getting grinds , sometimes to the point that they are disrupting others from doing their work.

    Plenty also think because they are getting grinds that just by turning up for the grind that it will all magically go into their heads.

    There are genuine cases out there- the students who work but can't keep up with the pace of the class but are capable with a bit more time or individual attention. But plenty are just lazy.

    The chemistry teacher noticed it this year in one or two of her students. Nothing wrong with her teaching, she gets good results but had a couple of students on occasion who sat back in class when it came to particular topics and it was clear they had they covered elsewhere, rather than taking the opportunity to solidify their learning and using their chemistry class to test their knowledge.


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