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Dramatic fall in number failing maths

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Comments

  • #102
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    rumour wrote: »
    If we are below average by international standards then simply we are not good at Maths. Surely that simple concept should not be distorted.
    The reason Irish kids are not good at maths by international standards is because fewer and fewer (up to this year) were studying it to a high level.
    rumour wrote: »
    As evidence most posters here are quite encouraged by the news from this years leaving certificate mathematics results.
    I have stated several times on this thread that what I am most encouraged by is the large increase in the number of students sitting the higher level maths exam.


  • #103
    tails_naf
    Registered Users Posts: 861 ✭✭✭tails_naf


    I was having dinner with a maths teacher friend of mine last night and she relayed part of the reason for Project Maths' success -

    She said a lot of money was spent on it, so it 'had to work' - and by that she meant that the marking was made easier.

    She gave an example of a probability question where the answer was 1/7 may be worth 10 points, but if you wrote 7/1 you got 9 marks. (a probability of 7/1 being impossible does not seem to trouble the marking scheme!)
    She is personally troubled by this as a teacher - it's clearly a slip in standards, rather than an improvement in education.


  • #104
    Farmer Pudsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    tails_naf wrote: »
    I was having dinner with a maths teacher friend of mine last night and she relayed part of the reason for Project Maths' success -

    She said a lot of money was spent on it, so it 'had to work' - and by that she meant that the marking was made easier.

    She gave an example of a probability question where the answer was 1/7 may be worth 10 points, but if you wrote 7/1 you got 9 marks. (a probability of 7/1 being impossible does not seem to trouble the marking scheme!)
    She is personally troubled by this as a teacher - it's clearly a slip in standards, rather than an improvement in education.

    But surly if you showed your work all the way along and only put the answer in reverse then you deserve the 9 marks. When marking a maths question (or alot of science/technical graphics) it is the ability to demostrate how to solve the problem is important.

    If you make a calculation error or an error in the display of the answer then why should you not get nearly all the marks for the question.

    In maths gennerally you do not get all the marks for doing it in your head and writing down the answer after all you could have looked at the student in the next table answer.In my day we were always told to show your calculation.


  • #105
    tails_naf
    Registered Users Posts: 861 ✭✭✭tails_naf


    Farmer Pudsey wrote: »
    But surly if you showed your work all the way along and only put the answer in reverse then you deserve the 9 marks. When marking a maths question (or alot of science/technical graphics) it is the ability to demostrate how to solve the problem is important.

    If you make a calculation error or an error in the display of the answer then why should you not get nearly all the marks for the question.

    In maths gennerally you do not get all the marks for doing it in your head and writing down the answer after all you could have looked at the student in the next table answer.In my day we were always told to show your calculation.

    Yes, I accept the method usually gets you most of the points. But any value greater than 1 should ring alarm bells for any probability answer - but aside from that awarding 9 points out of 10 is a bit much. In theory you could achieve an A1 by getting no answer 'right'. Hardly the standards we want to promote, surely?


  • #106
    ardmacha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    But surly if you showed your work all the way along and only put the answer in reverse then you deserve the 9 marks

    If the answer is impossible you should get few marks, it should not just be question of cranking the handle
    - probabilities > 1
    - averages outside the range of numbers calculated
    - answers an order of magnitude away from what they should be


  • #107
    Farmer Pudsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    tails_naf wrote: »
    Yes, I accept the method usually gets you most of the points. But any value greater than 1 should ring alarm bells for any probability answer - but aside from that awarding 9 points out of 10 is a bit much. In theory you could achieve an A1 by getting no answer 'right'. Hardly the standards we want to promote, surely?
    ardmacha wrote: »
    If the answer is impossible you should get few marks, it should not just be question of cranking the handle
    - probabilities > 1
    - averages outside the range of numbers calculated
    - answers an order of magnitude away from what they should be

    If to get to an answer you have to do 15-20 lines of calculation's and at the end write it 7/1 rather than 1/7 then I do not see how there is any issue giving the student 90% of the marks for that section of a question even if there are only 6-8 lines.
    The student may have just made an error. It is impossible and student would get an A1 or A2 or even a B1 the laws of probilities would be against as you need to be excellent at maths to achieve that.

    I think that we are having symantics about this it a bit like Football and hurling purist the hurling purists love Kilknenny because there is the total game even though it may be ruining hurling as nobody else can do it. While football purists hate Donegal even though for the last twenty years football has been so compeditive that only one team has won a two in a row

    It is much the same with maths students were disinclined to take maths as you were not rewarded for the effort if you went to a grind school they pointed you towards Ag Science, Chemestry etc to get the points. Also if you failed maths you effectively failed the leaving as very few courses allow you entry without a pass in maths.

    Anyway he may have been a bookie's son and express it the way his father roars it on the track
    2-1 aaaaa
    3-1bbbbb
    4-1ccccc
    10-1 the field


  • #108
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    ardmacha wrote: »
    If the answer is impossible you should get few marks, it should not just be question of cranking the handle
    - probabilities > 1
    - averages outside the range of numbers calculated
    - answers an order of magnitude away from what they should be
    I can't speak for Project Maths, but have you ever seen the Junior & Leaving Certificate marking schemes for mathematics. They are extremely objective, describing in some detail where slips (-1 mark) and blunders (-3 marks) are to be deducted under very specific circumstances. A maths teacher doesn't just sit there arbitrarily deducting points as s/he sees fit; everyone is deducted the same points in accordance with very specific guidelines.

    Again, I can't speak for the current Project Maths curriculum, but mathematics has traditionally been the most objective & most precisely corrected examination subject taken at Junior and Leaving certificate levels.


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