Oil burner service-a few questions

the culture of deference · 04-04-2012 11:05am

dinneenp wrote: »

I have been following this thread with interest.
I'm living in midlands.
I'm looking for someone to service my boiler, just PM me if interested.
Cheers,
Pa.

I'm living in midlands.

I'm looking for someone to service my boiler, PM me if interested, but looking for someone who will do exactly as DGOBS or shane0007 have said.

DGOBS · 04-04-2012 12:16pm

Well, I don't usually teach Oftec, but on occasion where I have, given the format, as long as the candidate study's and works hard there should be no reason they don't pass, the course is after all designed to teach them. (although cant see how it can be covered in 3 days!)

Give the corse cost, most I have seen work their butt off, so the pass rate is usually high, no-one is suggesting they come out of th trap knowing everything about the industry, but should have been given enough practical knowledge to begin in a safe and proper manner (such is the hope)

I am not suggesting the system is perfect, far from it, and some centers seem to be abusing it, but unless the industry decides on a better route (maybe even regulation) or moves towards apprenticeships what option is out there? I mean some start servicing oil boilers with no training at all!

Maybe an idea would be for Oftec to do as someone suggested, and have a star rating for each technician, your trade cert, time serviced, etc old count towards each star, so the likes of a qualified plumber with all courses up to date ect could be acknowledged

JohnnieK · 04-04-2012 6:17pm

DGOBS wrote: »

Trainers get paid for a days work nothing more!
Trainers do not make decisions on open or closed book!
It is Oftec that set the standard for these exams, and I for one done all my gas closed book and think its a much better way to learn in many ways.

I have no issue with open book exams, I for one could not possibly remember every single thing that is in the is813 and I refer to it when i am not sure of something.
Issues I have is unskilled people sitting the exams, question papers with a mark clearly on them indicating the answer and instructors helping students. If you can't answer a question with the book in front of you then you should be shown the door.

Don't know what other's opinions are on this, but I am not a computer and couldn't possibly remember everything in it.

shane0007 · 04-04-2012 9:10pm

I can just picture it, a surgeon just about to perform an operation and he says "Nurse Ratchet, could you be a doll and open that manual there and just check to see if the patient needs to be on their front or back for this procedure?"

Just kidding but exams should really all be closed book. It eliminates the people who pass after numerous attempts and there are no more options to get it wrong. IS813 is not that big and neither are OFTEC's books. Once the basics are learned, along with frequent use, the majority is easily remembered but more importantly understood.

DGOBS · 04-04-2012 10:46pm

I totally argee with unskilled/non-trades not being allowed to sit these papers. I also disagree with non plumbers holding a GID as it is an installers certificate, non plumbers should have a technicians status only, this also applies to Oftec.

But these decisions are made via CER and Oftec

Open book for Oftec, the way it's set up at the minute is nearly a must, not sure about the 2nd attempt set up, but with 100% only pass, also makes things a little unrealistic given the questions and the format.

As for Gas, 5 years back it was closed book, and I honestly think you learned more for it, but it was an 80% pass rate, questions weren't multiple choice, they were long handed open questions, like, name 7 primary symptoms of CO poisoning and such like that, or asked you to explain existing soundness testing procedures etc. and seemed to separate the heat from the chaff.

But, you could drive a truck through some of IS813, and a very interperative document for a standard.

04-04-2012 10:56pm

I don't want to memorise my IS813, EN1949 or IS820 that's because I have a life, if I need to know something I know how to find the answer.

DGOBS · 04-04-2012 11:12pm

Hey, when did you get one of those Gary!
See our therapy sessions are starting to work, thanks for sharing

04-04-2012 11:17pm

I did my OFTEC with Worcester Bosch, they gave me the answers and sandwiches:D

I'v retired from oil now as it smells and I'm crap at it, I had a shopping centre in Portlaoise evacuated because of black smoke, during a service, I had problems with the air on some commercial Viessmann which sent huge amounts of black smoke (again) billowing in to the air, it was very impressive:) and my favourite job, I got chased round my van by a farmer with a bucket of **** because he hated my accent and also I stated to him that I was OFTEC regerstered so I could not service his sooty flueless indoor boiler that was outdoors as it was a very dangerous installation, he threw the bucket at my head:( you don't get any of that with gas.

04-04-2012 11:19pm

DGOBS wrote: »

Hey, when did you get one of those Gary!
See our therapy sessions are starting to work, thanks for sharing

Not so much of having a life, more that I'm just far to lazy.

Micky Dolenz · 04-04-2012 11:20pm

shane0007 wrote: »

I can just picture it, a surgeon just about to perform an operation and he says "Nurse Ratchet, could you be a doll and open that manual there and just check to see if the patient needs to be on their front or back for this procedure?"

Just kidding but exams should really all be closed book. It eliminates the people who pass after numerous attempts and there are no more options to get it wrong. IS813 is not that big and neither are OFTEC's books. Once the basics are learned, along with frequent use, the majority is easily remembered but more importantly understood.

I disagree. I have a copy of IS813 and IS820 with me while working and I'll check them if I am unsure about something. I'd know must of the stuff off hand as I deal with it everyday but for random things, you can't expect someone to know it.

I do however agree that the eligibility of exams is a joke. What ever happened to not be able to sit these exams with a Craft cert of some related industry?

Billy Bunting · 05-04-2012 12:04am

I’m of an age where I’m constantly checking regs or MI’s, I think any competent engineer does check rather that walking away thinking its right, I work with Oil, Gas and Domestic Appliances, no way anyone could mentally store and keep up with that amount of literature.
On the eligibility front, just last weekend I was chatting to a guy who had been laid off from his job as a tyre fitter, he was telling me his plan to further his career, he’s off on a Oftec coarse with Chevron, they then told him he could then do his gas with them, all paid for! Why wouldn’t he?

JohnnieK · 05-04-2012 12:48am

Billy Bunting wrote: »

I’m of an age where I’m constantly checking regs or MI’s, I think any competent engineer does check rather that walking away thinking its right, I work with Oil, Gas and Domestic Appliances, no way anyone could mentally store and keep up with that amount of literature.
On the eligibility front, just last weekend I was chatting to a guy who had been laid off from his job as a tyre fitter, he was telling me his plan to further his career, he’s off on a Oftec coarse with Chevron, they then told him he could then do his gas with them, all paid for! Why wouldn’t he?

It's a joke. It's making a laughing stock of the industry. He will then try to go into people's homes calling himself a gas fitter or what ever. Why did I bother with an apprenticeship and then a diploma only to be pissed on by the likes of this.

DGOBS · 05-04-2012 7:09am

As I said, abuse of the system is happening, you can report this to Blueflame who are the Oftec awarding body, and the CER

DGOBS · 05-04-2012 7:13am

Only comment I can possibly ask Gary about his training is were the sandwiches nice?

Seriously, any trainer handing out answers to questions should have their own Certs revoked and removed from the industry, otherwise what's the point in any training and assessment.

I met a guy from one of those courses like Gary and Billy are talking about and asked him about a nozzle .6usg80es, he had no idea what I was talking about.

05-04-2012 12:50pm

These exams were only ever meant as a platform to prove you had the knowledge or competence in the first place, they were never meant as a training platform to produce compertent service engineers, it was supposed to allow those with similar skills/knowledge a route in and not as we have now which is replacing proper training, qualifications or crossover experience.

DGOBS wrote: »

Only comment I can possibly ask Gary about his training is were the sandwiches nice?

The sandwichs were multi choice and no help was given, I did alright though as I went with the chicken salad;)

TPM · 05-04-2012 4:34pm

gary71 wrote: »

These exams were only ever meant as a platform to prove you had the knowledge or competence in the first place, they were never meant as a training platform to produce compertent service engineers, it was supposed to allow those with similar skills/knowledge a route in and not as we have now which is replacing proper training, qualifications or crossover experience.

I agree. Oftec only applies to the regulations requirements and recommendations of installations, not the actual physical act of carrying out the installation, service or repair.

Oftec wont work in this country untill there it actually means something to be Oftec registered.

An oftec technician can only inform a house holder of problems/issues and walk away Unlike gas where they have the power and back up to turn off the supply and issue warning notices

The oil delivery companies are oftec registered but there is no requirement for installations to be oftec compliant in order for them to fill the tank.

Billy Bunting · 05-04-2012 6:17pm

Good to see that Oftec Ireland are now mobilising themselves and making representations to local councils and getting the word out there....

http://www.oftec.org/Media/Default/DocGalleries/News_And_Press_Releases/PR%20Meath%20Council%20March%2012.pdf

JohnnieK · 05-04-2012 11:18pm

Tell me this, it's nearly a year since I done my OFTEC training, Is it too late to register??? Knowing the year I've had so far I will probably have to do it again.

Billy Bunting · 05-04-2012 11:26pm

JohnnieK wrote: »

Tell me this, it's nearly a year since I done my OFTEC training, Is it too late to register??? Knowing the year I've had so far I will probably have to do it again.

I'm sure DOGBs would have this answer but as i understand it, if you have your Blueflame cert you are able to register upto 5 yrs after the exam date.

Billy Bunting · 05-04-2012 11:28pm

Ooops!! its DGOBs not DOGB's

DGOBS · 06-04-2012 8:50am

Does paper refuse ink

kippy · 23-07-2013 4:18pm

Sorry for dragging this up again, but one has to ask, if there are so many spurious people at this kind of work (which if done incorrectly can have major consequences) why exactly are they still allowed trade?

I've pm'd a couple of people on this thread for a recommendation of someone who might do a good job on my own burner as it appears pointless to go to the golden pages, indeed it may also be pointless to equate "higher cost" with "quality service".

shane0007 · 23-07-2013 5:36pm

kippy wrote: »

indeed it may also be pointless to equate "higher cost" with "quality service".

Absolutely true. You will find that the only way to get somebody reliable & competent is via a referral, but they should also be qualified & certified & have the correct equipment to do so.

Oil burner service-a few questions

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