Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Voluntary Ambulance Driving.

Options
  • 23-04-2015 2:54pm
    #1
    grabone
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭


    Hi All,

    Just wondering if someone could explain the legalities of driving a voluntary ambulance like the civil defence, order of malta, and red cross.

    In an emergency situation can the driver.
    (a) Use lights and sirens
    (b) break speed limits safely

    What other issues would one need to be aware of??

    Thanks in advance!


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    timmywex
    Registered Users Posts: 2,626 ✭✭✭timmywex


    grabone wrote: »
    Hi All,

    Just wondering if someone could explain the legalities of driving a voluntary ambulance like the civil defence, order of malta, and red cross.

    In an emergency situation can the driver.
    (a) Use lights and sirens
    (b) break speed limits safely

    What other issues would one need to be aware of??

    Thanks in advance!

    Yes & Yes presuming it is an ambulance is the quick and easy answer. Obviously in accordance with the rules of the road and Road traffic act.

    Normal caveats apply, you are still responsible for your driving, should there be an rtc there isn't really any extra protections afforded. Needless to say its only ever done for patients that warrant it not a free for all to spin around on blues and twos!


  • Options
    #3
    sjb25
    Registered Users Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭sjb25


    grabone wrote: »
    Hi All,

    Just wondering if someone could explain the legalities of driving a voluntary ambulance like the civil defence, order of malta, and red cross.

    In an emergency situation can the driver.
    (a) Use lights and sirens
    (b) break speed limits safely

    What other issues would one need to be aware of??

    Thanks in advance!

    Yes and yes once done safely and the patient condition warrants it not just the fact there is a patient onboard which I heard one guy think before! Just to add to that if it's an EMT crew if a patients condition is enough to warrant blue lights and siren you will likely be on looking for paramedics or advanced paramedics anyway


  • Options
    #4
    palmtrees
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭palmtrees


    sjb25 wrote: »
    Just to add to that if it's an EMT crew if a patients condition is enough to warrant blue lights and siren you will likely be on looking for paramedics or advanced paramedics anyway

    +1 to this.

    The only times I wouldn't request assistance for a patient requiring a blue light transfer to hospital is if the ED is close and on-scene time won't be too long. Or if the patient is FAST positive. An EMT can provide the required care for this - rapid transport and a pre-alert are probably the most important factors here


  • Options
    #5
    timmywex
    Registered Users Posts: 2,626 ✭✭✭timmywex


    sjb25 wrote: »
    Just to add to that if it's an EMT crew if a patients condition is enough to warrant blue lights and siren you will likely be on looking for paramedics or advanced paramedics anyway

    Actually i would sort of disagree with this - it should always be an EMT crew (OMAC policy for certain specifies one EMT crew, think PHECC does also?) but from my point of view based in Dublin, it may be different to where you are sjb25, Alot of the transport I have done in the last year or so have been blue light actually, mainly just due to traffic conditions above all else. Probably mostly leaving events which have paramedics present already - be they concerts of elsewhere!

    Paramedics - for all their glory, with the current CPG's don't actually have a huge amount of scope above and beyond an EMT, of course however their experience is what is key and provides the real difference!


  • Options
    #6
    sjb25
    Registered Users Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭sjb25


    timmywex wrote: »
    Actually i would sort of disagree with this - it should always be an EMT crew (OMAC policy for certain specifies one EMT crew, think PHECC does also?) but from my point of view based in Dublin, it may be different to where you are sjb25, Alot of the transport I have done in the last year or so have been blue light actually, mainly just due to traffic conditions above all else. Probably mostly leaving events which have paramedics present already - be they concerts of elsewhere!

    Paramedics - for all their glory, with the current CPG's don't actually have a huge amount of scope above and beyond an EMT, of course however their experience is what is key and provides the real difference!

    By EMT crew I ment not paramedic crew all ambulances in any org should have at least one EMT onboard

    I understand what you say iv also done the same as you re traffic say if somebody uncomfortable pain wise and stuff and also transported due to the fact of no NAS resource available at all so was quicker for us to just transport altough we are 30min at minimum from our closest ED we would very rarely have a paramedic or AP on duty with us at all either

    I wasn't really having a go at anybody I was just saying if you have a patient onboard who you feel requires blue lights you would also be considering paramedic or advanced paramedic intervention at that stage following CPGs

    but as you say there is few other variables that you need to add in
    out of all my recent transports 90% where done without lights and sirens and that's me as I said being 30min from ED as patients where stable and didn't not require it actually a nice smooth journey was better for them

    Really all I'm saying is the fact there is a patient onboard doesn't mean you put on bluelights and lash down the road when there is no need for it it's down to the patients condition


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    sgthighway
    Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭sgthighway


    I am both a Driver and EMT. If I am on duty as an EMT; I don't drive unless there is another EMT. If the Driver is not an EMT; I instruct them how to drive if we have to transport. My rule is NO Blue Light & Sirens unless there is a risk of loss of life or loss of limb. The only exception maybe if we get a call from the other members we leave behind on the duty and they get another patient which requires attention. We might use them to get back quickly. Other than that I'll stay in traffic like everybody else for non-life threatening injuries. It it my Drivers Licence and I am not going to risk the lives of other road users unless as per above; "loss of life or loss of limb". I have done maybe 20 transports in last 2 years and never heard our siren.

    When I'm in a rural spot with nobody I turn it on just to go through the tones ;) Still can't get use to using them via the Steering Wheel horn :o


  • Options
    #8
    two4two
    Closed Accounts Posts: 101 ✭✭two4two


    Driving uner blue lights with sirens just to avoid traffic is disgraceful. This carry on gives voluntary organisations a bad name. You a voluntary service not an emergency service and should the patient need blue lights then you probably need paramedic/ap in the back with you.


  • Options
    #9
    palmtrees
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭palmtrees


    two4two wrote: »
    Driving uner blue lights with sirens just to avoid traffic is disgraceful. This carry on gives voluntary organisations a bad name. You a voluntary service not an emergency service and should the patient need blue lights then you probably need paramedic/ap in the back with you.

    Driving on blue lights to avoid traffic just doesn't happen in my experience (10 years in a vol). If it happened in my org you can be sure it's the last time you'll be given the keys to any ambulance.

    As was mentioned previously, there are plenty of valid cases for voluntary organisations to use blue lights and sirens to transport a patient to the ED. Also, there are lots of paramedics and advanced paramedics in the voluntarys so just because it's not a DFB or HSE ambulance does not mean they don't have a paramedic or AP on board.


  • Options
    #10
    two4two
    Closed Accounts Posts: 101 ✭✭two4two


    palmtrees wrote: »
    Driving on blue lights to avoid traffic just doesn't happen in my experience (10 years in a vol). If it happened in my org you can be sure it's the last time you'll be given the keys to any ambulance.

    As was mentioned previously, there are plenty of valid cases for voluntary organisations to use blue lights and sirens to transport a patient to the ED. Also, there are lots of paramedics and advanced paramedics in the voluntarys so just because it's not a DFB or HSE ambulance does not mean they don't have a paramedic or AP on board.

    I wasn't saying you cannot use blue lights or that there are no paramedics or ap's in a vol org but there is the right reason and the wrong reason and driving just to avoid traffic isn't one of them.


  • Options
    #11
    sjb25
    Registered Users Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭sjb25


    two4two wrote: »
    I wasn't saying you cannot use blue lights or that there are no paramedics or ap's in a vol org but there is the right reason and the wrong reason and driving just to avoid traffic isn't one of them.

    I agree with you on all of that absolutely when I mentioned traffic I ment one occasion I had traffic close to ED was badly backed up we had a patient who we had transported the other 90% of the journey without blues but the patient was very uncomfortable pain wise etc so I made a choice to ask the driver to get in past the traffic we where only 5min from the hospital but traffic was stopped due to match it turned out but I made a choice based on my patient how close we where to the ED and the likely amount of time we would be sitting there so I based it on my patient not coz I didn't want to sit there made no odds to me look I may have been wrong but there you go now that was the only occasion iv been in that postion to have to make that call
    as iv said in a previous post I think the same as you most cases we would require blue lights we would and should be getting NAS back up and also as iv said out of the many patients iv transported 90% have been without blues.
    Don't understand fellas the minute a patient is loaded they want to start hitting buttons which is a disgrace IMO


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    grabone
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭grabone


    Thanks for all the replies its basically answered a lot of what initially thought anyway.

    Just a point from what I've read above. I honestly don't think there's any organisation I know of with volunteers careless enough to misuse lights and sirens. I'd imagine every organisation would assess a volunteers maturity before being allowed to drive any emergency vehicle.
    I'm sure every driver or emt who makes the decision to use lights and sirens can justify there use.
    It may not be justifiable in everyone's opinion but I'd imagine in stressful situations it may not always be easy make a text book decision.

    So just to clarify when comparing a HSE driver and ambulance to a voluntary driver and ambulance is there anything a voluntary driver can't do in comparison to HSE driver in terms of lights and sirens or road traffic law issues????


  • Options
    #13
    timmywex
    Registered Users Posts: 2,626 ✭✭✭timmywex


    two4two wrote: »
    Driving under blue lights with sirens just to avoid traffic is disgraceful. This carry on gives voluntary organisations a bad name. You a voluntary service not an emergency service and should the patient need blue lights then you probably need paramedic/ap in the back with you.

    Just to clarify when I said using blue's due to traffic conditions I am talking about Dublin traffic where it could be a toss up between 30mins sitting in traffic or 5/10 using blues and tipping up handily - not racing anywhere. I can think of loads of situations where someone is potentially unstable and needs a&e, but not mad panic, but surely not a 30 min in the back in traffic time. Hell even a spinal shouldn't patient on a board shouldn't be lying in the back on it in traffic for that amount of time! If it was something stable - simple fractures for example then its a sit in traffic thing no question about it.
    grabone wrote: »

    So just to clarify when comparing a HSE driver and ambulance to a voluntary driver and ambulance is there anything a voluntary driver can't do in comparison to HSE driver in terms of lights and sirens or road traffic law issues????

    Nope, they are covered exactly the same under Road Traffic Law. HSE paramedics have naturally more experience, and I think most of them have advanced courses done (open to correction there).


  • Options
    #14
    Mycroft H
    Registered Users Posts: 9,316 ✭✭✭Mycroft H


    Blue lights are at the discretion of practitioner/driver on board and are entirely linked to current pt condition.


Advertisement