Floyd Mayweather Vs Miguel Cotto

babymanval · 12-05-2012 3:36pm

I dunno, I guess I'm a self-professed Manny "fanboy", but in fairness there's plenty of reason to be. For me, he's just so so different to anyone that Floyd has fought before, and better. It's the angles/speed for me more than anythin, almost like an Anderson Silva in UFC. It's like watching different sport sometimes when watching Manny.

I guess heartwise I would want a Manny win if it ever happened, and could see how he would be well capable. Sense tells me Floyd would take a close points win (he's obviously not gonna try to stop the most dangerous fighter he would have ever faced). Pac's stronger (arguably faster) than Mosley, who had Floyd's legs wobbly for at least a short time.

Floyd reasonably probably only beat Cotto by 4 or 5 rounds depending on who you listen to. Manny pulped Cotto. Yeah styles make fights, and the same logic can be applied to Mayweather/Marquez (forget weight issues), but there's logic in there somewhere, regardless of the argument that Cotto eventually parked in front of Manny and paid for it (I personally think he's smarter than that, I just think Manny deconstructed him by way of his own adaptabilities).

The fight will never happen though. It's not about anything other than preserving the "0" at this stage. He's not THAT much bigger a draw than Manny so as to warrant the ridiculous "I don't need you, you need me" posturing.

I may be wrong with my figures, I know Walshb broke it down earlier in the thread, but even recently:

Manny does 1.4 million ppv against Marquez (Marquez!)
Floyd does 1.5 million ppv against Cotto (Cotto! On a south american holiday, albeit Mexican)

Manny does 1.2 against Mosley (Mosley! Shot fighter.)
Mayweather/Ortiz 1.2

It's not 2007, and Oscar De La Hoya isn't gonna fight Floyd again to bump his average anytime soon. I just think the ppv argument is ridiculous, and wafer thin. If Floyd has an edge (which he does), it's no more than what, 10%? And he absolutely doesn't have the edge to warrant the posturing he carries on with, or demand the entire ppv revenue after a flat fee to Manny. It's basically ensuring the fight doesn't happen.

But now it seems it's about the "test" again. A test that was first discussed by Mayweather's crackhead father. Is that the authority here? It's all a farce to be fair. It comes down to the fighters in these decisions, no one else, Arum or otherwise. It's fairly telling when a fighter who's sole concern in life is riches, isn't willing to make the biggest payday of his career by a mile happen, possibly even 2 or 3 times. Maybe $150 million is too low a price for Floyd to be most likely, at least once in a multi-fight, exposed.

walshb · 12-05-2012 3:46pm

That really was an accurate and solid post. From purely a neutral view I think you nailed it.

The PPV purse split should be criticised by all; Manny and Floyd fans. It's shambolic. Neither man is the biggest in terms of PPV. They are both global, and no research will show otherwise. I detailed a lot of the PPV and they are pretty much identical. Floyd ahead here, Manny ahead there, almost dead even. Floyd is the one throwing in the PPV obstacle, not Manny. If Manny did, same applies, he should get criticised.

Both men would make record PPV sales if they met each other. Neither would make as much by meeting a different foe. So, put an end to this "I desereve more" crap. It's pathetic.

And I know Floyd likes money but he's always spouting about how generous he is etc, so, why the need to be so so greedy? It doesn't add up. 40-50-60-70 million dollars, when is enough enough? I can only come to the conclusion that he really doesn't want the fight. The drugs, the PPV purse?

colly10 · 12-05-2012 3:57pm

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

They showed the clip back of Coto hitting Pac with a straight right to the face and Manny didn't even blink, He walked through it, That's how high he was, so much that the didn't even know he had been hit.

That mother****er is on the A-side meth, that's what the **** he's on, he on that or he on something else.
The A-side meth is what they used to have 500 years ago. Remember when the Philippines were fighting the US soldiers? They were shooting them mother****ers with 45s. And 45s were bouncing off their mother****ing ass. They weren't even dying!

Dan_Solo · 12-05-2012 8:29pm

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

They showed the clip back of Coto hitting Pac with a straight right to the face and Manny didn't even blink, He walked through it, That's how high he was, so much that the didn't even know he had been hit.

Hey, who needs blood/urine tests when you can tell who's doped from just watching them.
I don't even think Pac would beat PBF, but I still think PBF is ducking for his own reasons. PBF should really have his license looked at if he's claiming other boxers are juiced and the boards don't know/care about it.
Didn't see him asking washed up bums like Cotto for an independently handled blood and urine test every day for a month before their fight. Wonder why...

cowzerp · 12-05-2012 9:01pm

walshb wrote: »

That is what I have said. Nobody was suspecting Manny at all until folks start thinking that he could be a real threat to Floyd at 147 lbs. Floyd must have thought this too. Floyd comes out with OSDT and folks are hurling doping accustaions at Manny.

I know of no other fighter ever to introduce such demands. There is testing out there as it is. It's not to Floyd's liking, but it was when Floyd was meeting Gatti and Judah and Hatton, for example.

It has to be down to some fear of losing. I don't think he loses, he must!

1st off, I've suspected him well before floyd mentioned it, secondly it's slanderous to accuse without proof so lads let's end it now, I will start getting strict on this as it is not on.

Have your suspicions all you want but innocent till proven guilty.

Now with that said pro boxing testing is pathetic to say the least, floyd is tight but where he is wrong it should be across the board, all should be tested to these high standards.

insanity50 · 12-05-2012 9:56pm

cowzerp wrote: »

1st off, I've suspected him well before floyd mentioned it, secondly it's slanderous to accuse without proof so lads let's end it now, I will start getting strict on this as it is not on.

Have your suspicions all you want but innocent till proven guilty.

Now with that said pro boxing testing is pathetic to say the least, floyd is tight but where he is wrong it should be across the board, all should be tested to these high standards.

Fair enough Paul. I was guilty of the above myself so I apologise and will keep my suspicions to myself from now on.

Henno30 · 12-05-2012 10:54pm

Much of the responsibility for the Pacquiao-steroids smear lies with Floyd Sr. He did his level best to make himself the centre of attention for the Hatton-Pacquiao fight, a habit that Floyd Jr himself pointed to as the main reason he couldn't work with him anymore. Freddie Roach brings this point up during this 24/7 extra before that fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okdT5Eef-pc

Floyd Sr set the Hatton-Pacquiao fight up as direct showdown between him and Freddie Roach, referring to Freddie as 'Joke-Coach-Roach', 'Cockroach' etc. When Manny destroyed Hatton, it was a humiliation and a massive blow to Floyd Sr's ego. And wouldn't you know it, in the months following that fight he starts spreading the doping allegations.

At the time he was ridiculed for it, but you know what they say about repeating a lie often enough.

Spazdarn · 13-05-2012 5:16am

insanity50 wrote: »

If Floyd takes 50-50 split, he makes less money than he would make by fighting someone else and getting a bigger split; Similarly if Manny gets 50-50 he makes more in one fight than he's made in all his previous fights put together.

Nonsense.

If Floyd takes 50-50 of a fight where he's offered Manny 40m (with no ppv) he still makes more money than he did against Cotto 33m (with ppv).

Added to the fact the Floyd and Manny fight is the biggest fight in boxing, the guarantees would likely be much higher.

So he would most definitely not be getting less money than his previous fights.

walshb · 13-05-2012 11:07am

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Nonsense.

If Floyd takes 50-50 of a fight where he's offered Manny 40m (with no ppv) he still makes more money than he did against Cotto 33m (with ppv).

Added to the fact the Floyd and Manny fight is the biggest fight in boxing, the guarantees would likely be much higher.

So he would most definitely not be getting less money than his previous fights.

This PPV obstacle is absurd. Folks defending it is also absurd. "Oh, he will make X amount this way and that way."

Simple: 50/50 should make both men a ridiculous amount of money. I would bet 50 plus millions. I do not believe Floyd is that greedy.

But, it is one of three things: A: He is literally a very greedy man and wants more and more and more; B: His ego is that big that the thoughts of 50/50 with anyone, (even a global superstar like Manny, who will guarantee this bout is massive), makes him ill; or C: He fears a loss and is using PPV as an abstacle.

Dan_Solo · 13-05-2012 11:30am

Either it's:
A) The money isn't enough for the risk.
or

He thinks he'll lose to Pac at his current level (Pac currently being doped or not)

Either one makes this a duck.

cowzerp · 13-05-2012 12:24pm

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Either it's:
A) The money isn't enough for the risk.
or
He thinks he'll lose to Pac at his current level (Pac currently being doped or not)

Either one makes this a duck.

Arum wants no part of this lads, untill he wants in forget about it-arum wants to keep picking fighters that he thinks manny would beat.

Mayweather is far superior to manny, to suggest he's scared of him is ludicrous

Dan_Solo · 13-05-2012 12:36pm

cowzerp wrote: »

Arum wants no part of this lads, untill he wants in forget about it-arum wants to keep picking fighters that he thinks manny would beat.

Mayweather is far superior to manny, to suggest he's scared of him is ludicrous

And PBF wants to keep picking fighter he knows he'll beat.
Works both ways.
Scared or no scared PBF's doing the ducking. He could just not fight him instead of making up some cock n bull doping nonsense.

walshb · 13-05-2012 12:38pm

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Either it's:
A) The money isn't enough for the risk.
or
He thinks he'll lose to Pac at his current level (Pac currently being doped or not)

Either one makes this a duck.

And only to an extremely greedy man could A be the pick. 50 plus million dollars; risk should not even come into it.

cowzerp · 13-05-2012 12:56pm

Dan_Solo wrote: »

And PBF wants to keep picking fighter he knows he'll beat.
Works both ways.
Scared or no scared PBF's doing the ducking. He could just not fight him instead of making up some cock n bull doping nonsense.

Manny/Arum/Roach are at least 50% the dodgers here-Floyd called Manny out straight after his fight, haven't heard a dickie bird back from Mannys camp, This fight would have happened if Manny had tool the blood tests, his suggestion that 1. He was afraid of them and 2. That it would weaken him where cop outs.

Either way, Pbf is far far superior and most believe that, Mannys team don't care once he keeps making money.

walshb wrote: »

And only to an extremely greedy man could A be the pick. 50 plus million dollars; risk should not even come into it.

Seriously Bren, do you really believe floyd thinks Manny could beat him?

No way does he.

Dan_Solo · 13-05-2012 1:05pm

cowzerp wrote: »

Manny/Arum/Roach are at least 50% the dodgers here-Floyd called Manny out straight after his fight, haven't heard a dickie bird back from Mannys camp, This fight would have happened if Manny had tool the blood tests, his suggestion that 1. He was afraid of them and 2. That it would weaken him where cop outs.

OMG, don't tell me you take that post-fight press stuff seriously, do you? How many times have we heard about rematches, next opponents etc and it was all waffle?
The fight would have happened if Manny took the blood tests that PBF decided Manny and only Manny, a man never done for drugs, needed to take. This is pBF ducking. He's changed the rules jeopardising the fight, not Pac.
Strange how he's never asked any other fighter, you know, the ones, he knows he'll beat handily, to do this. How come?
I still think it is a blatant accusation that Pac is doped. PBF should be up before the board for it.

Dan_Solo · 13-05-2012 1:06pm

cowzerp wrote: »

Seriously Bren, do you really believe floyd thinks Manny could beat him?

Yeah, well obviously. All he had to do was not change the rules and the fight would have happened.
Who changed the rules? Floyd.

walshb · 13-05-2012 1:51pm

cowzerp wrote: »

.
Seriously Bren, do you really believe floyd thinks Manny could beat him?

No way does he.

Well then why the test insistence and the PPV obstacles? He must think Manny has something special that could upset him. Only Floyd knows, but Manny is the only foe that Floyd has ever asked this of.

Yes, he had tests for Mosley etc, but he had to do that then after insinuating that Manny was doping. I think Floyd wins, and wins without too much doubt. He will work for the win, but he's too good I feel.

When one studies and looks into it I think it's a fair conclusion to come to, that Floyd fears a loss. Not sating it's right, but us fans we only have a certain amount of info to go on.

Dusty87 · 13-05-2012 7:21pm

i wish manny would just do a test. If he's clean, great! It would should floyd's mouth. Wave it in his face. But there will still be the obstacle of money. Ball is still in floyd's court. I think floyd would win on a points unanimous decision, but there has to be something in floyd's mind thats its too risky.

walshb · 13-05-2012 7:23pm

Dusty87 wrote: »

i wish manny would just do a test. If he's clean, great! It would should floyd's mouth. Wave it in his face. But there will still be the obstacle of money. Ball is still in floyd's court. I think floyd would win on a points unanimous decision, but there has to be something in floyd's mind thats its too risky.

I think if Manny did the test and offered the fight for free Floyd would come up with another excuse. Sorry, but to me, both demands he has made so far are pathetic.

Dusty87 · 13-05-2012 7:32pm

walshb wrote: »

I think if Manny did the test and offered the fight for free Floyd would come up with another excuse. Sorry, but to me, both demands he has made so far are pathetic.

Thats what im saying walsh. Floyd has a backup plan. If manny passes the test, the ball is still in floyd's court with the money. I do think if floyd wants to be remembered as the best he needs to fight manny. In 30 years time the is floyd the goat arguement will still involve that he never fought manny. As i said i do think he'll win but he isnt askin for tests and the money for no reason. Fight manny, win or lose he can retire as one of the best. Dont fight him and it will always be over his shoulders.

insanity50 · 13-05-2012 8:21pm

walshb wrote: »

Well then why the test insistence and the PPV obstacles? He must think Manny has something special that could upset him. Only Floyd knows, but Manny is the only foe that Floyd has ever asked this of.

Yes, he had tests for Mosley etc, but he had to do that then after insinuating that Manny was doping. I think Floyd wins, and wins without too much doubt. He will work for the win, but he's too good I feel.

When one studies and looks into it I think it's a fair conclusion to come to, that Floyd fears a loss. Not sating it's right, but us fans we only have a certain amount of info to go on.

Lads,

PBF has a self confidence and a belief in his skills which no other fighter comes close to possessing.

He genuinely believes in his heart of hearts that he is the greatest figher of all time. To suggest he is scared of a guy who had trouble with a fighter Floyd schooled (Marqeuz) is ridiculous. Floyd doesn't think Manny is any better or any more special than the other 42 who have tried.

Dan_Solo wrote: »

OMG, don't tell me you take that post-fight press stuff seriously, do you? How many times have we heard about rematches, next opponents etc and it was all waffle?
The fight would have happened if Manny took the blood tests that PBF decided Manny and only Manny, a man never done for drugs, needed to take. This is pBF ducking. He's changed the rules jeopardising the fight, not Pac.
Strange how he's never asked any other fighter, you know, the ones, he knows he'll beat handily, to do this. How come?
I still think it is a blatant accusation that Pac is doped. PBF should be up before the board for it.

Starting at the Marquez fight all Floyd's opponents have undergone the random blood and urine tests.

This should be common practice in the sport.

the current testing is slack, and Floyd is picking up for it. It should be standard.

To Brendan,

Let me ask you this...

If Manny Pacquiao suddenly woke up tomorrow and terminated his contracted with Bob, how soon do you think the PBF fight would be made. [Ignoring floyd going to jail and manny having a fight in 3 weeks]

If Bob was out of the picture, guarantee this fight would be signed and sealed within a week.

Dan_Solo · 13-05-2012 8:47pm

insanity50 wrote: »

Starting at the Marquez fight all Floyd's opponents have undergone the random blood and urine tests.

Yeah, but that's only because he had to do it or else look totally embarrassed calling out Pac over it and nobody else. No Pac and he doesn't bother demanding those tests.
The simple fact is, if he thinks he can beat Manny anyway, why does he care whether he's doped or not?

cowzerp · 13-05-2012 8:52pm

100% agree with this

I don't think these lads understand what an obstacle arum is, he is a non boxing man who just wants easy money, manny is his cash cow and after this fight that is gone, open your eyes lads-Manny is not a major threat to floyd, canelo would be way harder as would Sergio Martinez.

I like Manny but he's not on floyds level, arum knows this, roach knows this and floyd knows this.

insanity50 wrote: »

Lads,

PBF has a self confidence and a belief in his skills which no other fighter comes close to possessing.

He genuinely believes in his heart of hearts that he is the greatest figher of all time. To suggest he is scared of a guy who had trouble with a fighter Floyd schooled (Marqeuz) is ridiculous. Floyd doesn't think Manny is any better or any more special than the other 42 who have tried.

Starting at the Marquez fight all Floyd's opponents have undergone the random blood and urine tests.

This should be common practice in the sport.

the current testing is slack, and Floyd is picking up for it. It should be standard.

To Brendan,

Let me ask you this...

If Manny Pacquiao suddenly woke up tomorrow and terminated his contracted with Bob, how soon do you think the PBF fight would be made. [Ignoring floyd going to jail and manny having a fight in 3 weeks]

If Bob was out of the picture, guarantee this fight would be signed and sealed within a week.

Dan_Solo · 13-05-2012 8:55pm

cowzerp wrote: »

100% agree with this

I don't think these lads understand what an obstacle arum is, he is a non boxing man who just wants easy money, manny is his cash cow and after this fight that is gone, open your eyes lads-Manny is not a major threat to floyd, canelo would be way harder as would Sergio Martinez.

I like Manny but he's not on floyds level, arum knows this, roach knows this and floyd knows this.

Still doesn't answer the question... If Floyd is so confident and wants the fight, why change the rules? Keep his trap shut and this fight is over by now.
Why did Floyd, not Manny, insist on scuppering the fight?

walshb · 13-05-2012 8:55pm

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Yeah, but that's only because he had to do it or else look totally embarrassed calling out Pac over it and nobody else. No Pac and he doesn't bother demanding those tests.
The simple fact is, if he thinks he can beat Manny anyway, why does he care whether he's doped or not?

Spot on. He was forced to request tests for anyone he fought AFTER he insinuated that Manny was suspect, and after he insinuated that the sport needed cleaning up. Hmm, he didn't think it needed cleaning up vs. Hatton and Oscar and many others.
Really, Floyd would never in a milion years have requested JMM to take all the tests had Floyd not called Manny to do the tests.

Only he knows why he asked for tests, but for anyone to think it was to clean up the sport is naive. I mean, when is his career did he ever have the sports doping interests in his heart?

Most here seem to think Floyd wins. I am one. Floyd must not be as confident. If he was he'd fight Manny with or without tests and suspicions.

walshb · 13-05-2012 9:00pm

cowzerp, what has Arum got to do with drugs tests? Floyd wants these drugs tests. That has zero to do with Arum. He wants Manny to test for drugs, to do tests that are not part of the current regime.

Remove Arum completely. That still doesn't solve the puzzle. Manny says, "I'll fight you, Floyd," and Floyd responds with, "take the tests, my tests, not the ones that the sport is implementing officially." Ok, Manny then says yes or no. If yes, Floyd responds with "Okay, but I am not willing to share 50/50." When does this become absurd?

What obstacle has Manny put up? Not Arum, what obstacle has Manny out up?

cowzerp · 13-05-2012 9:09pm

Allegations are not allowed but many feel manny has something to hide and his size despite his naturally skinny build give reason for this belief, the testing in boxing is pathetic and should be what floyd says either way, Floyd has called him out lots of times of late, manny is v quiet, whys that?!

Im pro Manny but have issue with Arum and his business module, Roach is just as bad.

Henno30 · 13-05-2012 9:13pm

walshb wrote: »

I think if Manny did the test and offered the fight for free Floyd would come up with another excuse. Sorry, but to me, both demands he has made so far are pathetic.

The notion of a non-serious buyer comes to mind - http://www.nowboxing.com/2012/03/pacquiaomayweather-the-concept-of-negotiating-dealing-with-a-non-serious-buyer/23482/

I don't know how much the Pacquiao camp have wanted the fight. I think the fact that each member of his team came out with a different excuse when they were put on the spot early this year looked bad. I don't think Arum has wanted the fight.

But I don't think Floyd has wanted it either. He keeps throwing obstacles in the way and aggressively demanding the other side meet them. This isn't the behaviour of a serious buyer, so to speak, this is the behaviour of someone who's pretending he's a buyer. Has Floyd behaved this way in any other negotiations? No he hasn't, because he's wanted to make those other fights happen.

emergingstar · 13-05-2012 10:06pm

I think manny is in for a tough night with Bradley, and might even be out pointed

Henno30 · 13-05-2012 10:58pm

emergingstar wrote: »

I think manny is in for a tough night with Bradley, and might even be out pointed

Bradley's no joke. Depends on what Pacquiao has left.

anto77 · 14-05-2012 1:39am

insanity50 wrote: »

Lads,

PBF has a self confidence and a belief in his skills which no other fighter comes close to possessing.

He genuinely believes in his heart of hearts that he is the greatest figher of all time. To suggest he is scared of a guy who had trouble with a fighter Floyd schooled (Marqeuz) is ridiculous. Floyd doesn't think Manny is any better or any more special than the other 42 who have tried.

Starting at the Marquez fight all Floyd's opponents have undergone the random blood and urine tests.

This should be common practice in the sport.

the current testing is slack, and Floyd is picking up for it. It should be standard.

To Brendan,

Let me ask you this...

If Manny Pacquiao suddenly woke up tomorrow and terminated his contracted with Bob, how soon do you think the PBF fight would be made. [Ignoring floyd going to jail and manny having a fight in 3 weeks]

If Bob was out of the picture, guarantee this fight would be signed and sealed within a week.

'

Seriously, enough of the "paul", "brendan" "lads" bs - this is an internet forum.

Your fan boy posts are now less than childish considering the accusations you direct at other posters.

For posters here to comment with any degree of certainty that Paquiao is on performance enhancing drugs is both completely groundless and slanderous.

Pacquiao exposed a younger, quicker Cotto by throwing more explosive and varied combinations than Mayweather. Mayweather set up some beautiful combinations as did Pacquiao but the latter exploited them far more clinically,

Mayweather - Pacquiao is pretty close to a 50/50 fight.

But - If the Pacquiao that Beat Cotto is a clean fighter, and if he is in similar, if not better condition for a Mayweather fight, i think he will marginally outwork PBF for a points win.

Maravilla33 · 14-05-2012 8:45am

Its funny that its nearly impossible for people to be a fan of both Pacquaio and Mayweather. Either you're a Manny fan and Floyd is the biggest ducker the worlds ever seen or you're a Floyd fan and Manny is juiced up to his eyeballs. I'm not sure why this fight hasn't happened yet. The truth is nobody really does.

You never know what PBF's intentions are but maybe he genuinely believes Manny is on something. Maybe he never asked any of his other opponents to do these tests because he was never suspicious of them and had no need to? When he asked for these tests he didn't know that Manny would refuse. For all he knew the tests would be taken and the fight would be on. He'd be in trouble then if he was using them as a way of ducking.. On the other hand I do think he went about it the wrong way and can understand why Manny wouldn't want to bow to his demands.

I don't think either are afraid of the other. I think Floyd wins this one handily now but it was a real pickem around the time he fought Hatton and Cotto. For this fight to have happened it would have taken one of them to be the bigger man and concede something to make the fight the world wants to see. I don't think either wanted it enough. They both would have made more than they'll ever make against anybody else. Splitting the purse 40-40 with the winner getting the remaining 20 would have sorted things out.

xtal191 · 14-05-2012 12:31pm

Some tweets from Alex Ariza

https://twitter.com/#!/ArizaFitness/status/201495455924883457

https://twitter.com/#!/ArizaFitness/status/201509963670102016

https://twitter.com/#!/ArizaFitness/status/201497560102346752

walshb · 14-05-2012 12:44pm

anto77 wrote: »

'
But - If the Pacquiao that Beat Cotto is a clean fighter, and if he is in similar, if not better condition for a Mayweather fight, i think he will marginally outwork PBF for a points win.

anto, that version of Manny has the best chance to beat Floyd. I still think Floyd will be a luke warm favorite though. Great clash of styles. Manny to me seems to have regressed a wee bit, judging more from the Mosley fight than JMM, whom he always has issues with. The Bradley fight will tell us more.

walshb · 14-05-2012 12:47pm

Maravilla33 wrote: »

Its funny that its nearly impossible for people to be a fan of both Pacquaio and Mayweather. Either you're a Manny fan and Floyd is the biggest ducker the worlds ever seen or you're a Floyd fan and Manny is juiced up to his eyeballs. I'm not sure why this fight hasn't happened yet. The truth is nobody really does.

You never know what PBF's intentions are but maybe he genuinely believes Manny is on something. Maybe he never asked any of his other opponents to do these tests because he was never suspicious of them and had no need to? When he asked for these tests he didn't know that Manny would refuse. For all he knew the tests would be taken and the fight would be on. He'd be in trouble then if he was using them as a way of ducking.. On the other hand I do think he went about it the wrong way and can understand why Manny wouldn't want to bow to his demands.

I don't think either are afraid of the other. I think Floyd wins this one handily now but it was a real pickem around the time he fought Hatton and Cotto. For this fight to have happened it would have taken one of them to be the bigger man and concede something to make the fight the world wants to see. I don't think either wanted it enough. They both would have made more than they'll ever make against anybody else. Splitting the purse 40-40 with the winner getting the remaining 20 would have sorted things out.

As fair an assessment as I have seen in quite a while.

cowzerp · 14-05-2012 1:47pm

anto77 wrote: »

Seriously, enough of the "paul", "brendan" "lads" bs - this is an internet forum.

Your fan boy posts are now less than childish considering the accusations you direct at other posters.

This is a strange post and i don't get it really!

many of us get on and no each other in real life so it's not strange we use our names at times-oh and we often disagree even though some of us are pals off here, opinions make this site.

Henno30 · 14-05-2012 7:16pm

xtal191 wrote: »

Some tweets from Alex Ariza

https://twitter.com/#!/ArizaFitness/status/201495455924883457

https://twitter.com/#!/ArizaFitness/status/201509963670102016

https://twitter.com/#!/ArizaFitness/status/201497560102346752

Ariza is a headcase

walshb · 14-05-2012 8:18pm

This Arum talk is crap. I asked: What has Arum got to do with the dope tests? That has nothing to do with him. Floyd wants over the top dope tests, tests that are not part of the current scene.

Arum is a promoter, there have been plenty, but never ever did a hype fight stall so badly. Arum has been involved with many big fights before.

The fighters if they want will fight. All this posturing and blaming Arum from Floyd's side is nonsense.

cowzerp · 14-05-2012 8:52pm

walshb wrote: »

This Arum talk is crap. I asked: What has Arum got to do with the dope tests? That has nothing to do with him. Floyd wants over the top dope tests, tests that are not part of the current scene.

Arum is a promoter, there have been plenty, but never ever did a hype fight stall so badly. Arum has been involved with many big fights before.

The fighters if they want will fight. All this posturing and blaming Arum from Floyd's side is nonsense.

Floyd wants tests that are standard at amateur level, he is dead right and only reason why he started was because he clearly thinks Manny is/was doping, the tests should be used for all top boxing.

Arum is a major obstacle and it is well known him and Mayweather don't get on-The test reason is not there now and that's old news, Mayweather called him out, fight should have happened 5th of may but stupid stadium excuse was used, easy to forget that isn't it.

zindicato · 14-05-2012 9:01pm

Fact Manny agreed to the random blood test all the way till the day before the fight but not on the day of the fight as he said there is procedures after the fight itself,

Fact is that they started nearly in the same weight division and surprisingly if you follow boxing they are nearly in the same weight category almost at different stages of ther career and time line of thier career.

If any of you comes form a medical background you will understand me when i say this that when you have bloods taken from you or even if you just get a vaccine jab you feel afterwards that there is a certain amount of weakness in that arm...

if you follow boxing for a long time now Manny never answer's call outs from other boxer's even before when he was fighting in lower weights his line is always ''im a boxer i fight whomever my manager gets for me'' so stop with this ''floyd call out thing''.

Floyd is brilliant at what he does he says he doesnt care bout pacquiao but every fight promotion he does he always mentions him.

Regarding Bob arum for a person to state that if Pacquiao leaves top rank than the fight could be made quickly that is just pathetic.

Floyd and Bob has had bad relationship between them for it to spill over into the negotiations regarding the fight is dumb as you know promoters at the end of the day will sell thier mother if the financial gain is good.

heres the breakdown of floyds requests so far.
1. random blood tests( before)
2. Olympic style drug testing
3. no to 50/50 and he keeps the PPV sales
4. Pacquiao to leave Arum before they fight.

Pacquiao's request to floyd
1. ???????????

As ive said before we wont know till they fight what will really happen, All of the opinions bout the other fighter beating the other easily are just that ''OPINIONS''.

zindicato · 14-05-2012 9:14pm

Floyds Tests shouldnt even be mentioned in the same breath as Olympic drug testing as they are just random drug tests that he wants he just coined the term olympic style into his promotional babble and many people think its legit.

Fact OLYMPIC DRUG TESTING IS DONE 24/7 365 DAYS A YEAR NOT RANDOM DRUG TESTS FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS WHICH IF YOU FOLLOW HIS FIGHT AGAINTS MOSLEY, MARQUEZ AND VICTOR ORTIZ WERE ACTUALLY A COUPLE OF TIMES THAT BLOODS WERE TAKEN DURING THE TRAINING AND CUT OFF POINTS WERE FAR FROM '' TIL THE DAY OF THE FIGHT'' AND ACTUALLY THEY WERE INFORMED PRIOR TO THE SO CALLED RANDOM TESTS.

http://www.boxingscene.com/conte-mayweather-not-olympic-style-testing--44297

Spazdarn · 14-05-2012 9:19pm

cowzerp wrote: »

Floyd wants tests that are standard at amateur level, he is dead right and only reason why he started was because he clearly thinks Manny is/was doping, the tests should be used for all top boxing.

Arum is a major obstacle and it is well known him and Mayweather don't get on-The test reason is not there now and that's old news, Mayweather called him out, fight should have happened 5th of may but stupid stadium excuse was used, easy to forget that isn't it.

Why do I still hear "take the test" every time Floyd speaks despite everyone on the planet knowing it has nothing to do with the negotiations anymore?

Henno30 · 14-05-2012 10:08pm

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Why do I still hear "take the test" every time Floyd speaks despite everyone on the planet knowing it has nothing to do with the negotiations anymore?

1. People remember slogans
2. Most of his fans are idiots

Spazdarn · 15-05-2012 8:24am

Henno30 wrote: »

1. People remember slogans
2. Most of his fans are idiots

Yeah but it's not just the fans, Floyd said it after the Cotto fight. It's embarrassing at this stage

Henno30 · 16-05-2012 12:51pm

Pacquiao has created quite a stir today with his new-found religious mission moving onto a new level - http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/nike-sponsored-bible-quoting-top-boxer-slams-obama-gays-must-be-put-to-death/news/2012/05/15/39644

He quoted the Leviticus verse on killing gay people in an interview with a news outlet, and criticised Obama for his stance on gay marriage. I think he might get away with this in a third world country like the Phillipines, but this is going to do massive damage to his image in the US.

There is no way a sponsor like Nike could stay in business with an American athlete is he said something like this, if the story takes off in the States they won't stick with Pacquiao either.

cowzerp · 16-05-2012 12:58pm

Henno30 wrote: »

Pacquiao has created quite a stir today with his new-found religious mission moving onto a new level - http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/nike-sponsored-bible-quoting-top-boxer-slams-obama-gays-must-be-put-to-death/news/2012/05/15/39644

He quoted the Leviticus verse on killing gay people in an interview with a news outlet, and criticised Obama for his stance on gay marriage. I think he might get away with this in a third world country like the Phillipines, but this is going to do massive damage to his image in the US.

There is no way a sponsor like Nike could stay in business with an American athlete is he said something like this, if the story takes off in the States they won't stick with Pacquiao either.

Silly lad it must be said.

Fall_Guy · 16-05-2012 2:11pm

Henno30 wrote: »

Pacquiao has created quite a stir today with his new-found religious mission moving onto a new level - http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/nike-sponsored-bible-quoting-top-boxer-slams-obama-gays-must-be-put-to-death/news/2012/05/15/39644

He quoted the Leviticus verse on killing gay people in an interview with a news outlet, and criticised Obama for his stance on gay marriage. I think he might get away with this in a third world country like the Phillipines, but this is going to do massive damage to his image in the US.

There is no way a sponsor like Nike could stay in business with an American athlete is he said something like this, if the story takes off in the States they won't stick with Pacquiao either.

really irresponsible reporting on the part of the man who first ran this story, Granville Ampong. Pacquiao never quoted the leviticus passage in question, but Ampong inserts it into his article in a way that makes it easy to misread it as Pacquiao having referenced the quote himself.

Here's the original report

http://www.examiner.com/article/pacquiao-rejects-counsels-obama-god-s-words-first

and here's Ampong "clearing things up"

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/sports/05/16/12/scribe-owns-pacquiao%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98anti-gay-remark%E2%80%99

To be honest, I don't see it being a huge issue that Pacquiao has said that he is against gay-marriage. he's a conservative politician and it goes without saying that he's not going to be in favour of same-sex marriage. It's the cynical insertion of the leviticus quote that makes this look really bad, and in reality he never said that. So much ado about nothing if ya ask me.

Henno30 · 16-05-2012 2:20pm

Fall_Guy wrote: »

really irresponsible reporting on the part of the man who first ran this story, Granville Ampong. Pacquiao never quoted the leviticus passage in question, but Ampong inserts it into his article in a way that makes it easy to misread it as Pacquiao having referenced the quote himself.

Here's the original report

http://www.examiner.com/article/pacquiao-rejects-counsels-obama-god-s-words-first

and here's Ampong "clearing things up"

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/sports/05/16/12/scribe-owns-pacquiao%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98anti-gay-remark%E2%80%99

To be honest, I don't see it being a huge issue that Pacquiao has said that he is against gay-marriage. he's a conservative politician and it goes without saying that he's not going to be in favour of same-sex marriage. It's the cynical insertion of the leviticus quote that makes this look really bad, and in
reality he never said that. So much ado about nothing if ya ask me.

I disagree.

This is the relevant segement of the original article:

"God's words first ... obey God's law first before considering the laws of man," says Pacquiao, addressing Obama's pronoucement on legalizing same-sex marriage during an exclusive interview Friday night with the National Conservative Examiner in his residence at the Palazzo Complex in Los Angeles here in California.

Engaging a radical shift as manifested by his insights shared during Bible studies which lasted more than one hour, around 10:00 p.m., with a song and his substantive prayer, Pacquiao counsels people to "just believe" what the Scripture says.

Pacquiao's directive for Obama calls societies to fear God and not to promote sin, inclusive of same-sex marriage and cohabitation, notwithstanding what Leviticus 20:13 has been pointing all along: “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”

Notwithstanding the fact that the above is dreadfully written and could easily be construed as Pacquiao endorsing Leviticus, the extracts below pretty much seal the deal:

"It should not be of the same sex so as to adulterate the altar of matrimony, like in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah of Old."

Pacquiao believes same-sex marriage is an abomination and its advancement should be stopped starting from the high offices of the U.S. to block possible legalization.

I think poor old Granville Ampong is trying to save his own ass in his 'attempts to clear things up'. There's no ambiguity about that article at all.

Fall_Guy · 16-05-2012 5:24pm

but we already knew that Manny was a conservative Christian, so what is the big problem there? I would imagine a very large proportion of the U.S. would agree with him, its a fairly conservative country. Now if he actually had quoted the passage from leviticus and was endorsing it, I think he would obviously be in hot water and rightly so.

Now I'd like to point out that I have no issues with same sex marriage, but there are a huge amount of people who still do (the world is full of "devout christians") so its not like his views are THAT crazy, especially in the U.S.

I definitely agree that the original reporter is trying to save his own ass.

walshb · 16-05-2012 5:32pm

Fall_Guy wrote: »

Now I'd like to point out that I have no issues with same sex marriage, but there are a huge amount of people who still do (the world is full of "devout christians") so its not like his views are THAT crazy, especially in the U.S.

I definitely agree that the original reporter is trying to save his own ass.

But, does one have to be a devout christian not to agree with same sex marriage?

Floyd Mayweather Vs Miguel Cotto

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