How come Atheists are against anti blasphemy laws but are OK with bashing other .....

thatsthewaythe · 01-03-2012 4:14pm #1

peoples beliefs and religions?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist_Ireland#In_the_news

Turtwig · 01-03-2012 4:16pm

thatsthewaythe wrote: »

peoples beliefs and religions?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist_Ireland#In_the_news

Because criticism =/= bashing? :pac:

Links234 · 01-03-2012 4:16pm

I'm trying to figure out a way to answer this, but the question just doesn't make any sense... Even if atheists are "bashing" people's beliefs and religions, how is that at odds with opposition to stupid laws like the blasphemy one?

Gregor Samsa · 01-03-2012 4:21pm

thatsthewaythe wrote: »

How come Atheists are against anti blasphemy laws but are OK with bashing other peoples beliefs and religions?

Jernal's answer sums it up, but I'm curious about something:

Lets say atheists, as you suggest, enjoy bashing other people's beliefs and religions. Why would you be surprised that they would then be against anti-blasphemy laws? Surely it stands to reason that anyone involved in blasphemy would be against anti-blasphemy laws?

Edit: Links234 got there first.

thatsthewaythe · 01-03-2012 4:22pm

Links234 wrote: »

I'm trying to figure out a way to answer this, but the question just doesn't make any sense... Even if atheists are "bashing" people's beliefs and religions, how is that at odds with opposition to stupid laws like the blasphemy one?

Some hardcore atheists say that religion should not be a part of society, and some of my atheists accquaintences say it should be illegal, so its ok for a scummy atheist to say religion should be illegal but according to the atheists blasphemy should be ok .....

I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Turtwig · 01-03-2012 4:25pm

thatsthewaythe wrote: »

Some hardcore atheists say that religion should not be a part of society, and some of my atheists accquaintences say it should be illegal, so its ok for a scummy atheist to say religion should be illegal but according to the atheists blasphemy should be ok .....

Basically, yeah.

I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

So say we all!

Doctor DooM · 01-03-2012 4:26pm

Because most atheists (or should I say secularists, because other than not believing in god there's not much to bind atheists as a group together) would also probably be against a law that said you had to be nasty about religion the whole time too.

By and large, it's the "being forced" to behave in concordance with religion or whatever which irks the denizens here.

legspin · 01-03-2012 4:26pm

thatsthewaythe wrote: »

Some hardcore atheists say that religion should not be a part of society, and some of my atheists accquaintences say it should be illegal, so its ok for a scummy atheist to say religion should be illegal but according to the atheists blasphemy should be ok .....

I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Blasphemy is one of life's great pleasures afaic. A victimless crime that pisses off loopers. Of course it's ok.

edit.
post 500. It's only taken me 7 years

Dades · 01-03-2012 4:26pm

Do we want to keep him, folks?

Delirium · 01-03-2012 4:28pm

thatsthewaythe wrote: »

Some hardcore atheists say that religion should not be a part of society, and some of my atheists accquaintences say it should be illegal, so its ok for a scummy atheist to say religion should be illegal but according to the atheists blasphemy should be ok .....

I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Why should it be illegal to say that religion should be illegal?

Turtwig · 01-03-2012 4:30pm

Dades wrote: »

Do we want to keep him, folks?

Excuse me, "him" how do you know? This wouldn't be faith now would it by an atheist moderator!!?

Links234 · 01-03-2012 4:30pm

thatsthewaythe wrote: »

Some hardcore atheists say that religion should not be a part of society, and some of my atheists accquaintences say it should be illegal, so its ok for a scummy atheist to say religion should be illegal but according to the atheists blasphemy should be ok .....

I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

if we ever get to a point where there are actual laws in effect against religion we might take that question at face value, but as it stands it's a ridiculous statement. besides, there's some serious strawmannery going on there because even so called "hardcore" atheists aren't advocating that religious should be illegal. to paraphrase hitchens, you can play with the toys; you don't come over to my house and try to make me play with the toys.

I believe in the mighty Thor.

Ps. Valhalla is better than heaven, it's got beer

Sonics2k · 01-03-2012 4:31pm

Dades wrote: »

Do we want to keep him, folks?

I say we play with this one, I suspect it's an second account honestly.

legspin · 01-03-2012 4:32pm

Dades wrote: »

Do we want to keep him, folks?

Ahh go on. Watching the lack of coherency and wooly thinking is soothing and re-assuring.

muppeteer · 01-03-2012 4:32pm

Jernal wrote: »

Excuse me, "him" how do you know? This wouldn't be faith now would it by an atheist moderator!!?

Faith!! Where???

skregs · 01-03-2012 4:37pm

thatsthewaythe wrote: »

How come Atheists are against anti blasphemy laws

Because they want to be able to freely criticise other people's religions.

thatsthewaythe wrote: »

but are OK with bashing other peoples beliefs and religions.

Because they want to be able to freely criticise other people's religions.

Do you really just not understand the words you wrote or what?

Stercus Accidit · 01-03-2012 4:39pm

thatsthewaythe wrote: »

Some hardcore atheists say that religion should not be a part of society, and some of my atheists accquaintences say it should be illegal, so its ok for a scummy atheist to say religion should be illegal but according to the atheists blasphemy should be ok .....

Why did you use the word BUT there? There is no but, those two statments work well together!

Why are liberals pro freedom of speech BUT anti-censorship?

Why are cake manufacturers pro cake BUT anti-dieting?

...

Sarky · 01-03-2012 4:39pm

thatsthewaythe wrote: »

I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Apparently you have to believe ON him, or you're as screwed as the rest of us.

Turtwig · 01-03-2012 4:41pm

Sarky wrote: »

Apparently you have to believe ON him, or you're as screwed as the rest of us.

Is that the only thing you have to do on Him?
*Gets coat.*

Beruthiel · 01-03-2012 4:42pm

Sarky wrote: »

you have to believe ON him

Am I the only one to think dodgy thoughts while reading this comment?

Turtwig · 01-03-2012 4:42pm

Beruthiel wrote: »

Am I the only one to think dodgy thoughts while reading this comment?

Thankfully, no.

Solair · 01-03-2012 4:47pm

Actually, most people (atheist, and religious) who believe in the concept of liberal democracy, freedom of expression and freedom of thought, tend to oppose blasphemy laws.

Such laws have nothing to do with religious beliefs and everything to do with state control and oppression!

Bannasidhe · 01-03-2012 4:49pm

thatsthewaythe wrote: »

Some hardcore atheists say that religion should not be a part of society, and some of my atheists accquaintences say it should be illegal, so its ok for a scummy atheist to say religion should be illegal but according to the atheists blasphemy should be ok .....

I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

I'm agnostic not atheist - I am also militantly secularist.
My son is atheist - also militantly secularist.
My OH is a Christian -also militantly secularist.
My mother is a Catholic -also militantly secularist to the extent that she paid for me to go to a private non-denominational school.

The entire French State is secular - even though a poll in Jan 2007 by the Catholic World News stated that 51% of French people describe themselves as Catholic (although only 5% -10% of those attend Mass regularly

). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France#Religion

Who is saying religion should be illegal - most secularists are saying religion is a private matter and should be kept separate from the civil State and not be allowed to dictate policy, education, healthcare etc.

Should citizens who are members of a particular religion wish to follow the 'laws' of that religion they are free to do so as long as these 'laws' do not conflict with civil laws.
What they should not have is the right to expect those who do not share their religious beliefs to also follow the 'laws' of their particular religion.

EDIT TO SAY: my son has informed me he is agnostic not atheist and insists I set the record straight. So everyone my son, whose boards.ie user name should be pedantic nit picker is not an atheist he is an agnostic militant secularist.

Tin Foil Hat · 01-03-2012 4:50pm

thatsthewaythe wrote: »

How come Atheists are against anti blasphemy laws but are OK with bashing other .....
peoples beliefs and religions?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist_Ireland#In_the_news

Worst Troll Ever

Doctor DooM · 01-03-2012 4:56pm

Beruthiel wrote: »

Am I the only one to think dodgy thoughts while reading this comment?

Been too long since I believed on someone good and proper

Penn · 01-03-2012 5:12pm

thatsthewaythe wrote: »

Some hardcore atheists say that religion should not be a part of society, and some of my atheists accquaintences say it should be illegal, so its ok for a scummy atheist to say religion should be illegal but according to the atheists blasphemy should be ok .....

I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Otacon · 01-03-2012 5:48pm

Hit and run?

Genghiz Cohen · 01-03-2012 6:01pm

Aww

Oranage2 · 01-03-2012 6:18pm

Have to agree with you op, I dont think anyone would disagree that we shouldnt have free speech and anti-blasphemy laws are a good thing because it keeps whats sacred sacred.

Also agree with the second part that Atheists do like bashing people. Also you know what the say about opinions, Atheists opinions are that there's no God and they want to force others not to believe while religious folk believe in god and just want to live in peace. And as they're both opinions (one opinion is there is a god and the other no god) both can be right.

The thing I dont get is if Atheists dont like religion in the state so much then why dont they just move to communist china, or even closer to the non-religious Mecca France.

smcgiff · 01-03-2012 6:27pm

Oranage2 wrote: »

The thing I dont get is if Atheists dont like religion in the state so much then why dont they just move to communist china, or even closer to the non-religious Mecca France.

Because we want to stay and save ye from yourselves. Can I get an amen brother?

Dades · 01-03-2012 6:29pm

Oranage2 wrote: »

Have to agree with you op

Are you also wondering why atheists who love bashing religion are so anti the blasphemy laws?

Because that one had me scratching my head too.

smcgiff · 01-03-2012 6:29pm

Otacon wrote: »

Hit and run?

He at least posted a follow up post.

However, there should be some rule where you can't post on this forum unless you've something like 200 posts.

Delirium · 01-03-2012 6:31pm

Oranage2 wrote: »

Have to agree with you op, I dont think anyone would disagree that we shouldnt have free speech and anti-blasphemy laws are a good thing because it keeps whats sacred sacred.

Also agree with the second part that Atheists do like bashing people.

It would be more accurate to say "some atheists do like bashing religion."

Also you know what the say about opinions, Atheists opinions are that there's no God and they want to force others not to believe while religious folk believe in god and just want to live in peace.

I'm not aware of any atheist who wants to force people to atheism. And you're forgetting about the indoctrination in the public schools system, which in case you didn't know is a Catholic run system.

And as they're both opinions (one opinion is there is a god and the other no god) both can be right.

The thing I dont get is if Atheists dont like religion in the state so much then why dont they just move to communist china, or even closer to the non-religious Mecca France.

Because they are members of society and engage in the political system/democracy to try and change things they're not happy with.

smcgiff · 01-03-2012 6:31pm

Dades wrote: »

Because that one had me scratching my head too.

Just because the sentence makes no sense doesn't mean he can't take it on faith.

Penn · 01-03-2012 6:37pm

Oranage2 wrote: »

Have to agree with you op, I dont think anyone would disagree that we shouldnt have free speech and anti-blasphemy laws are a good thing because it keeps whats sacred sacred.

Also agree with the second part that Atheists do like bashing people. Also you know what the say about opinions, Atheists opinions are that there's no God and they want to force others not to believe while religious folk believe in god and just want to live in peace. And as they're both opinions (one opinion is there is a god and the other no god) both can be right.

The thing I dont get is if Atheists dont like religion in the state so much then why dont they just move to communist china, or even closer to the non-religious Mecca France.

Because atheists have just as much right to live in their home country as religious people do. And people shouldn't be discriminated against because they follow a different religion or have no religion. And atheists generally believe that everyone should be treated equally. And because many religious people are just as intolerant as the atheists they claim are intolerant to them.

Here's an idea, why don't religious people go to a different country where they can follow their religion! Let's face it, religious people don't need rules or laws, because every single one of them is a moral, upstanding person. And a fully religious society wouldn't need to discriminate against anyone, because they'd all be like one hivemind who all agree with each other and no opposing viewpoints or discussions are allowed. They can follow the Pope's rules, and when he changes his mind, they can follow the new rules instead without having to spend all that precious time thinking if he might be wrong about something. They can ban free speech so their children can be fully brainwashed and not be influence by modern society where thinking is allowed. They can save loads of money on health bills by just praying and dying instead. And if a child is born gay (which probably won't happen seeing as how there won't be gay people on the television to influence them), they can bully them until they commit suicide.

In all seriousness though, I just don't speak Chinese and a lot of french food doesn't agree with me. And there's no point leaving a country just because something doesn't agree with me.

Bannasidhe · 01-03-2012 6:54pm

Penn wrote: »

Because atheists have just as much right to live in their home country as religious people do. And people shouldn't be discriminated against because they follow a different religion or have no religion. And atheists generally believe that everyone should be treated equally. And because many religious people are just as intolerant as the atheists they claim are intolerant to them.

Here's an idea, why don't religious people go to a different country where they can follow their religion! Let's face it, religious people don't need rules or laws, because every single one of them is a moral, upstanding person. And a fully religious society wouldn't need to discriminate against anyone, because they'd all be like one hivemind who all agree with each other and no opposing viewpoints or discussions are allowed. They can follow the Pope's rules, and when he changes his mind, they can follow the new rules instead without having to spend all that precious time thinking if he might be wrong about something. They can ban free speech so their children can be fully brainwashed and not be influence by modern society where thinking is allowed. They can save loads of money on health bills by just praying and dying instead. And if a child is born gay (which probably won't happen seeing as how there won't be gay people on the television to influence them), they can bully them until they commit suicide.

In all seriousness though, I just don't speak Chinese and a lot of french food doesn't agree with me. And there's no point leaving a country just because something doesn't agree with me.

I love French food and I even speak French - but they laugh at my Swiss accent (long story) but, see, I'm not French. I'm Irish and I live in Ireland. I have an Irish passport that says I am Irish AND a birth cert that says I was born in Ireland - neither of those official documents makes any mention of religion... funny that.

Doctor Jimbob · 01-03-2012 6:59pm

Oranage2 wrote: »

Have to agree with you op, I dont think anyone would disagree that we shouldnt have free speech and anti-blasphemy laws are a good thing because it keeps whats sacred sacred.

Is this not a bit of a contradiction. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're saying free speech should be allowed, unless it's against religion? Why? People who are not religious have as much right to talk about their beliefs, or lack of, as you do about your beliefs.
As for the 'keeps whats sacred sacred' bit, that's a bit biased towards religious people don't you think? Do you also agree there should be laws against hate speech? Probably not as that would see the Pope locked up for quite a while I'd imagine

Also agree with the second part that Atheists do like bashing people. Also you know what the say about opinions, Atheists opinions are that there's no God and they want to force others not to believe while religious folk believe in god and just want to live in peace. And as they're both opinions (one opinion is there is a god and the other no god) both can be right.

This is a bit rich coming from someone who spends quite a bit of time on an atheism forum, bashing athiests. Yes, they are both just opinions. Don't think I didn't notice the little bit of spin you put on it there though. You mentioned atheists like to force people to not believe, while religious people just like to live in peace. This isn't true at all. Some atheists want to force people not to believe, and some religious want to force people to believe. I think thats's a much more fair statement.

The thing I dont get is if Atheists dont like religion in the state so much then why dont they just move to communist china, or even closer to the non-religious Mecca France.

Lol. Just lol. This, in the same post as you were advocating freedom of speech? Again, just.... Lol.

the_syco · 01-03-2012 6:59pm

thatsthewaythe wrote: »

I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Blasphemy! Your love of a false god is blasphemy! You should be hanged by your toenails over a pit of hungry rats!

You do realise that by believing in one god it'd be blasphemy according to someone elses "god"?

Oranage2 · 01-03-2012 7:29pm

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

This is a bit rich coming from someone who spends quite a bit of time on an atheism forum, bashing athiests.

Well I have spent quite a bit of time this week in the Atheist & agnostic forum, but I've only posted in 3 threads in 4 months here so you're right and perhaps a little wrong. Most of the threads are "pope says this" or "how I hate Catholicism" which gets a little tedious so thats why I frequent here occasionally in short spells.

I also find this place a little scary that such anti-tolerance goes on and if the type of atheistism that's wanted here actually came true then it would be something similar to Nazi Germany - I'm also not surprised that an Adolf Hitler quote got so many thanks in the funny thread.

And i dont bash Atheists here - i just thing it's pretty idiotic not to believe in God. I see an Atheist and they're just so angry, I think they're rebeling because they're still angry that they were lied to about Santa Clause.

Gordon · 01-03-2012 7:34pm

Regular troll, not a god person troll, sorry!

shizz · 01-03-2012 9:27pm

Oranage2 wrote: »

And i dont bash Atheists here - i just thing it's pretty idiotic not to believe in God. I see an Atheist and they're just so angry, I think they're rebeling because they're still angry that they were lied to about Santa Clause.

It's pretty idiotic not to believe in God? Any reasons?

I wouldn't consider an atheist to be an angry person. The freedom and relief that comes with no religion is just so fulfilling that we want to spread it to everyone. :pac:

Doctor Jimbob · 01-03-2012 9:30pm

Oranage2 wrote: »

Well I have spent quite a bit of time this week in the Atheist & agnostic forum, but I've only posted in 3 threads in 4 months here so you're right and perhaps a little wrong. Most of the threads are "pope says this" or "how I hate Catholicism" which gets a little tedious so thats why I frequent here occasionally in short spells.

Firstly, congratulations on ignoring most of my post. I've seen your name pop up a few times recently, and I don't read every thread on here, just the ones that interest me. I don't see how most of the threads say those things anyway. It would be just as accurate to say most threads in the Christianity forum say 'I like god' and if it gets a little tedious, you don't have to read it you know.

I also find this place a little scary that such anti-tolerance goes on and if the type of atheistism that's wanted here actually came true then it would be something similar to Nazi Germany - I'm also not surprised that an Adolf Hitler quote got so many thanks in the funny thread.

Anti-tolerence? Please explain. Religious people are allowed to post their beliefs in here without much censorship. This does not occur in the christiany forum, where posts saying there is no god are deleted unless they're in a specefic thread. No one here wants anything similar to nazi germany. As I see it most people here want a secular society. I don't see why you have a problem with this?

And i dont bash Atheists here - i just thing it's pretty idiotic not to believe in God. I see an Atheist and they're just so angry, I think they're rebeling because they're still angry that they were lied to about Santa Clause.

You're entitled to think it's pretty idiotic if you like. I'm not angry at all. If it turns out there is a god i'll be pretty angry at him for all the crap he's llet happen though.

sephir0th · 01-03-2012 9:32pm

Oranage2 wrote: »

And i dont bash Atheists here - i just thing it's pretty idiotic not to believe in God. I see an Atheist and they're just so angry, I think they're rebeling because they're still angry that they were lied to about Santa Clause.

philologos · 01-03-2012 10:00pm

OP: I'm anti-blasphemy laws and I'm a Christian. Personally I think it's obnoxious to slam other people for their belief in X or Y or to ridicule someone for their faith, but I am a firm supporter of the liberty of speech. I would prefer that atheists were honest about what they felt about my Christian faith rather than having to keep it under the rug.

Doctor Jimbob · 01-03-2012 10:09pm

philologos wrote: »

OP: I'm anti-blasphemy laws and I'm a Christian. Personally I think it's obnoxious to slam other people for their belief in X or Y or to ridicule someone for their faith, but I am a firm supporter of the liberty of speech. I would prefer that atheists were honest about what they felt about my Christian faith rather than having to keep it under the rug.

I don't think it's necessarily obnoxious to slam people for their beliefs. If you believe in one thing and someone else believes something else, there's a high chance of heated words being exchanged. Completely agree with you about liberty of speech part. I'm not religious myself but personally I wouldn't like to live somewhere people are persecuted for being religious.

01-03-2012 10:14pm

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I don't think it's necessarily obnoxious to slam people for their beliefs.

That surely depends on what they believe in, no? I don't think philologos is proposing that it's obnoxious to slam people for their beliefs irrespective of the circumstances. But (for example) it is obnoxious to slam people simply because they are Catholics, or Muslims, or atheists.

Galvasean · 01-03-2012 10:27pm

It would appear the OP is banned...

CONSPIRACY!!!!

condra · 01-03-2012 10:27pm

philologos wrote: »

OP: I'm anti-blasphemy laws and I'm a Christian. Personally I think it's obnoxious to slam other people for their belief in X or Y or to ridicule someone for their faith, but I am a firm supporter of the liberty of speech. I would prefer that atheists were honest about what they felt about my Christian faith rather than having to keep it under the rug.

some day... you’ll make a fine atheist

MagicMarker · 01-03-2012 10:39pm

Oranage2 wrote: »

i just thing it's pretty idiotic not to believe in God.

Which god are ya talking about there ted?

Oranage2 · 01-03-2012 11:07pm

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Firstly, congratulations on ignoring most of my post. I've seen your name pop up a few times recently, and I don't read every thread on here, just the ones that interest me. I don't see how most of the threads say those things anyway. It would be just as accurate to say most threads in the Christianity forum say 'I like god' and if it gets a little tedious, you don't have to read it you know.

Anti-tolerence? Please explain. Religious people are allowed to post their beliefs in here without much censorship. This does not occur in the christiany forum, where posts saying there is no god are deleted unless they're in a specefic thread. No one here wants anything similar to nazi germany. As I see it most people here want a secular society. I don't see why you have a problem with this?

You're entitled to think it's pretty idiotic if you like. I'm not angry at all. If it turns out there is a god i'll be pretty angry at him for all the crap he's llet happen though.

Didnt really mean to ignore most your post it's just not my style to nit pick every sentence or word with a fine tooth comb.

And you shouldnt be angry with God, he's a loving God, and as Dades says he does work in mysterious ways. The fact that he hasnt smite anyone on this forum yet shows he's real and a forgiving God.

Barr125 · 01-03-2012 11:07pm

Galvasean wrote: »

It would appear the OP is banned...

CONSPIRACY!!!!

Take that to the Conspiracy Forum Galvasean

And Oranage2, I've seen you post in more than 3 threads here, at least, and trust me, you're being allowed a pretty free reign in the A&A, way more than I got in the Christianity Forum. -.-

How come Atheists are against anti blasphemy laws but are OK with bashing other .....

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