Gender, going to jail, male victims, etc.: the Caroline Brennan case, etc.

CDfm wrote: »

I dont imagine the jails in Cyprus are very nice- so the govt will have to do its bit. Love and regrets.

An examination of homicide figures in Ireland* between 1992 and 1996 reports that the victim was male in 15 out of 20 cases committed by women.

And in 35% of cases, a female perpetrator killed her husband.

The report concludes that females are far more likely to kill a spouse than their male counterpart, and are also very unlikely to be punished.

But for some reason, we are never presented with facts like these on the news.

*HOMICIDE IN IRELAND 1992 – 1996, Dr. Enda Dooley, Director of Prison Medical Services, Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform

citytillidie wrote: »

They are talking about this now on today fm

citytillidie wrote: »

Here is a link to it http://www.radioireland.ie/lastword/2432010-17.wmv

Last 15 mins

PopUp wrote: »

Again very misleading. 10 of the 20 female murderers were nolle prosecui. But there is no suggestion in the report that female murderers are being 'let off' or that the decision not to prosecute is inappropriate or based on gender bias. 10 women were not prosecuted - but in the same timeframe neither were 19 men.

Similar to the previous study finding was that female perpetrators were significantly more likely to have a nolle prosecui entered. Of the 20 cases involving a female perpetrator 10 (50%) had a nolle prosecui entered compared to 19 of the 180 where the gender of the perpetrator was known to be male (Chi-squared=19.52; p<0.0001).

Female perpetrators were significantly more likely not to be charged or to have a Nolle Prosequi entered. In those cases involving a female perpetrator (42) no charge or prosecution occurred in 14 (33.3%) compared to 36 (6.6%) of the 545 cases involving male perpetrators (Chi-squared=35.75; p< 0.0001). In a further 10 (23.8%) cases a conviction resulted in a suspended sentence compared to 51 (9.4%) in cases involving male perpetrators (Chi-squared=8.75; p< 0.003).

PopUp wrote: »

Reading this you would be forgiven for assuming that it means that the majority of domestic partner murders are committed by women against men. They are not. Quite the reverse. Male-on-female spouse murder is twice as common as female-on-male. As Dooley's study makes very clear (relevant stats are on pages 11-12), men commit more partner murders. In the four years for 1992-1996, there were 7 cases of women killing their male partners and 18 cases of men killing their female partners. So there were over twice as many male-perpetrator female-victim cases than vice versa. (This is the exact same ratio as in the earlier report, 1971-1991).

So where does the video get its very misleading statistic? Well in 1992-1996, there were 180 male murderers and 20 female murderers (there were an additional 5 murders where the gender of the perpetrator was unknown). 7 (35%) of the female murderers murdered their spouse. Only one female murderer murdered a stranger. Meanwhile, 134 of the male murderers murdered other men - and gangland, crime, and terrorism related killing all fell within this. So did drunken fights with acquaintances, etc etc - all behaviours that female murderers basically rarely or never engaged in.

So it's not the case that females are more likely to murder their spouse. It is the case that if you are a female murderer, you are more likely to have murdered your spouse than if you are a male murderer.

In the small proportion of cases involving a female perpetrator the victim is much more likely to be a partner or family member.

Females are significantly more likely to kill a spouse or relative than males.

In the 205 cases which resulted in a Manslaughter conviction (Table 18) 193 cases resulted
in an effective or suspended prison sentence. These cases involved 182 males and 11
females. It was noticeable that the 11 females convicted received an average sentence of
41.7 months whereas the 182 males received an average sentence of 63.9 months.

Homicide is predominantly committed by men (over 90% of perpetrators are men ). The
victims are more evenly distributed but are still predominantly male (72%). It is worth
noting that homicide by females is predominantly a family affair (over 85% killed a spouse
or family member). Female perpetrators are less likely to be indicted and more likely to
receive a shorter sentence on conviction than males.

During the twenty year period of the study there were only two convictions for Infanticide
in Ireland. This study indicated that during that period a total of nine mothers killed
their children under one year of age. In most of these cascs there was no apparent dispute
that the mother was suffering from some form of mental disorder at the time of the
killing (and therefore would have met the crite ria for infanticide under the Infanticide
ACI 1949). Nevert heless, in seven of the nine cases no charge was brought or a Nolle
Prosequi was entered on the instructions of the DPP. During the same period in
England & Wales a total of 136 convictions for Infanticide occurred. Even when the
relative populations of the two jurisdictions are taken into account the English rate is still
approximately 4 to 5 times greater. This apparent hesitancy to lay charges and the lesser
likel ihood of a homicide conviction for a female perpetrator has been noted in a number
of studies" [22,30-31].

Summary

This study has reviewed all homicides occurring in the Republic of Ireland during the
period 1972 to 1991 (inclusive). To date there has been no similar study examining the
criminological aspects or Irish homicide with emphas is on any changes that have occurred
over this period. Unlike other crime the number of homicides committed annually has
shown no sustained increase. The rate of homicide in Ireland appears to be among the
lowest in Europe.

Homicides predominantly involve the killing of a male by another, somewhat younger,
man. Most homicides occur at night and a high proportion involve intoxication in one or
both parties. Most often the motive is some form of anger or rage and the incident occurs
with out planning or premeditation, In the small number or homicides involving female
perpetrato rs the victim is significantly more likely to be a spouse or family member.
The vast majority of homicides are detected by the police and a conviction occurs in
approximately two-thirds of all cases. The exception to this high detection rate are those
cases considered due to subversive or terrorist motivation where planning and the availability
of a support system contribute to low detection and conviction.

Female perpetrators are significantly less likely to be convicte d, and if convicted they
receive significantly shorter sentences than their male counterparts. There has been a
significam increase in the length of discretionary sentences applied. In fanticide appears
to be relatively rare. "Psychiatric" homicides show a significant temporal shirt from "normal"
homicides in that they occur more often during the day-time period. In addition
they show more pre-meditation and less involvement of alcohol. Victims are more likely
to be young and also more likely to be family members.

Unlike the case in othe jurisdictions there appears 10 have been little legal or public
debate in relationn to the classification of homicide, the appropriateness or necessity for
a mandatory life sentence for murder convictions, the need for legal provisions in relation
to homicide committed under possible psychiatric disability to be updated to reflect
develop ments in psychiatric practice, etc. It is hoped that the information contained in
this study will provide a factual basis to assist those who might engage in such a debate.

Abusive relationships
Brenda Power laments that a woman can take the life of her abusive husband with impunity ("We must not allow abuse to excuse killing", Comment, last week).

She observes that a woman who suffered a "litany of brutal incidents" made no serious attempt to leave her husband.

As a sociologist with years of research on domestic violence, I know many women try to leave but are forced back into violent relationships due to threats and economic straits. Some women do not even try to escape as they know their departure will trigger an escalation of violence. Indeed women are at increased risk of being killed after they leave.

So the only alternative to taking an abuser's life may be a woman's own death - not an acceptable alternative.

Dr. Elizabeth Dermody Leonard

CDfm wrote: »

This deserves a thread of its own

There is something very wrong when a foreign Professor can come in and train social workers in this ideology and they in turn counsel women and tell womens groups that its right to kill.

Not only that but can go ahead and brag about it in the press.

The law of the land on reasonable force states there is a duty to retreat in these circumstances.

It is wrong and totally wrong that she is allowed to teach in an Irish University

We laugh at gender policies at US Colleges but what type of baggage is she bringing with her.

She needs to go and go now.


http://www.vanguard.edu/faculty/eleonard/

Is the course she is teaching being vetted

CDfm wrote: »

Its weird on lots of levels.

I mean she is teaching social workers and presumably future lawyers and others that its ok to kill in anger and how it can be justified.

Brenda Powers column that she replied to concerned mandatory jail sentences when someone is killed like this.She(brenda Power) is normally very extreme and pro-feminist so if she has concerns ,then it probably is a good idea to listen to them.

So yes I am concerned that social workers and others would be trained by her and come away with the idea that it is somehow right and correct to murder. So if she is teaching a course of course its content should be vetted. Its too serious. It must be out of control if Brenda Power says it is.

So if I look at the morals and ethics of it applied in other situations.

Let me see - honour killing is wrong no matter the provocation. I can see some people using warped logic to justify it.Am I to excuse honour killing and assisted suicide too.

Maybe its me, but I get the feeling that some of the newspaper crime reports are so samey that killers get coached in how to give evidence.What was the exception has now become the rule.

Do we to tell guys its ok to kill abusive wives. No we dont -we tell them to follow the legal route and keep control and jail them if they loose control.

We know from many international studies that women are as violent as men and the single sex studies she puts forward ignore that.Webalso know that females initiate violence in a lot of cases and mutual violence is common. So if we are training social workers, police.and lawyers we need to keep them up to date with the research so they can spot it and act.

So when I say vetted I mean that courses are thought with reference to the law and proper dual gender research and not an extreme gender feminist view. Its far too serious -someone could get killed.

Resignation of prison governor
• Madam, – If ever we needed proof that Ireland is, and always has been, a dysfunctional authoritarian patriarchy, then today’s article about the resignation of the governor of the women’s prison is surely it (Front page, April 26th). What kind of society imprisons women for failing to make credit union loan repayments while rewarding the men who have brought this country to their knees? – Yours, etc,
<name and address>

Madam, – I was saddened to hear of the resignation of Kathleen McMahon as governor of the Dóchas Centre in Dublin’s Mountjoy Prison and the worrying concerns she has brought to light.

I have been studying in London for the past six months and one of my courses, concerned with prisons, has shown statistical evidence from the UK that should give pause to managers intent on dismantling a system with a strong rehabilitative focus.

The Corsten Report, an extensive study of women’s prisons in the UK, showed the majority of women were serving short-term sentences for minor offences, however nearly two-thirds were re-convicted within two years. The majority were poor, one-fifth were foreign nationals, two-thirds had a drug problem, two-thirds had mental health issues and a third had suffered sexual abuse.

Out of the women who had dependent children when sentenced, only 5 per cent of those children stayed in the family home. While male prisoners with children more often have a partner to hold the home together, the same is not the case for a majority of women. Prison is a deeply destabilising place, but particularly so for women. If the approach and culture of the Dóchas Centre is changed from a rehabilitative to a punitive system, the possibility for many extremely vulnerable women to make a new start and not re-offend will be seriously diminished. It seems there may already have been a great loss in the resignation of Ms McMahon. – Yours, etc,
<name and address>.

CDfm wrote: »

Its weird when you look at it that somehow punishments for men and women in the same institution conditions are so different.

Even the name The Dochas Centre sounds like a spiritual retreat -some kind of convent.

My head hurts when I try to get my head around the logic and theory of justice for women. Its very like the criminals are writting the rules on how they are held and gullable academics are acting on it.

On the resignation letter -the someone could get hurt tone -well its a prison with dangerous inmates.

I mean its a bit of a laugh isn't it that these ideas are bought into by otherwise intelligent people.

Governor of women's prison leaves role
Sharon Tobin reports that Kathleen McMahon has said she has a number of problems with the way the Dóchas Centre is being run

Eibhlin Byrne, Dóchas Centre Visiting Committee Chairperson, says rooms built for rehabilitation purposes are being used for accommodation

CDfm wrote: »

A person jailed for a minor offense should be able to be segregated away from a violent prisoner.We are appalled when a guy gets injured or killed in these circumstances so should not want it to happen to any prisoner male or female.

bluewolf wrote: »

There was an opinion piece in the irish times either yesterday or monday detailing the conditions, and they were appalling. Talking about rats and lice everywhere, sleeping in the showers, all sorts of carryon. I can't find the article though, hard to find previous ones on their website
I don't know about men's conditions but I don't think it's fair to say on this thread women have it easy in prison. imagine those conditions when you just couldn't afford to repay a debt.

Mountjoy Prison is a Victorian prison that is 160 years old this year. It is totally run down, unsuitable for present needs and overcrowded.

Prisoners in overcrowded cells sleeping on floors infested with cockroaches, mice, ants and other assorted vermin. Others sleeping in shower areas, reception areas and other unsuitable areas;

Prisoners forced to perform daily bodily functions in their cells in front of cell mates, and “slopping out” when cell doors are reopened;

Prisoners having to eat all their meals in the same confined cell area where they sleep and perform their bodily functions;

23-hour lockup for those on protection, with just one hour of possible association/recreation.