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Croke Park,Haddington Road,Lansdowne Rd Hours

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    #32
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    We only get recognition for three hours for CPD rainbowtrout, I think it's school dependent.


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    #33
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,138 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Gebgbegb wrote:
    What are the sanctions for not doing the full hours?

    Would love to know this. We had serial non attenders, while the rest of us fools sat there trying to keep awake.


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    #34
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    mirrorwall14 wrote: »
    We only get recognition for three hours for CPD rainbowtrout, I think it's school dependent.

    Well it's definitely up to five but 'with agreement of local management'. We are allowed use the full five.


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    #35
    oneright
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭oneright


    I was handed a list today in work after doing 5 hours Cp, I had to highlight the ones I wanted to attend up to 16 hours cause I'm on half time.


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    #36
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    spurious wrote: »
    Would love to know this. We had serial non attenders, while the rest of us fools sat there trying to keep awake.

    l would like to know that too. We have to stand in line like bold children and sign in, but I've never seen anything done about the serial non attenders.


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    #37
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    katydid wrote: »
    l would like to know that too. We have to stand in line like bold children and sign in, but I've never seen anything done about the serial non attenders.

    ya, no one wants to do it, but it makes a mockery of it if some teachers swan in and out and can do what they like.


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    #38
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    oneright wrote: »
    I was handed a list today in work after doing 5 hours Cp, I had to highlight the ones I wanted to attend up to 16 hours cause I'm on half time.

    That seems like a fair and sensible system.

    We get no prior notice what each meeting will involve. Part timers have to meet individually with the principal to agree which to attend. He just says that it will be "favourable" for next year's hours if we attend them all so you have people on 3 hour contracts doing 33 CP hours.


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    #39
    doc_17
    Registered Users Posts: 6,851 ✭✭✭doc_17


    Mark Scary Gear wrote: »
    That seems like a fair and sensible system.

    We get no prior notice what each meeting will involve. Part timers have to meet individually with the principal to agree which to attend. He just says that it will be "favourable" for next year's hours if we attend them all so you have people on 3 hour contracts doing 33 CP hours.

    3 hour contracts? The ultimate slap in the face.


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    #40
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    doc_17 wrote: »
    3 hour contracts? The ultimate slap in the face.

    We have two 1.5 hour contracts!!


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    #41
    oneright
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭oneright


    Mark Scary Gear wrote:
    hours
    this is unbelievable, coercing people with the possibility of a job. That's just mean.


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    #42
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Mark Scary Gear wrote: »
    That seems like a fair and sensible system.

    We get no prior notice what each meeting will involve. Part timers have to meet individually with the principal to agree which to attend. He just says that it will be "favourable" for next year's hours if we attend them all so you have people on 3 hour contracts doing 33 CP hours.

    That's ridiculous. Staff who are not on full hours in my school usually do the first day back as it gets 6 hours out of the way. They pencil in the relevant parent teacher meetings, open night, and then see how many hours more they have to make up and pick from what's left.


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    #43
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    katydid wrote: »
    It can if the staff and management decide that it counts.

    I know what you mean about part time staff. Isn't it awful that management has such a hold over part time staff?

    I think 'open night' can take on a very different meaning when student numbers start to drop in a school and jobs are on the line.


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    #44
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    Gebgbegb wrote: »
    I think 'open night' can take on a very different meaning when student numbers start to drop in a school and jobs are on the line.
    That doesn't mean management should blackmail staff into giving their time for nothing when they could at least make it count towards CP.

    As a FE college, we are constantly on the hunt for students, and never know from year to year how many we'll have. Even now, with the school years started, we don't know for sure. That is the norm for us.

    We run an open evening, and it counts for CP hours.


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    #45
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    katydid wrote: »
    That doesn't mean management should blackmail staff into giving their time for nothing when they could at least make it count towards CP.

    I was working in a school where the principal sent a letter to all teachers regarding attendance at open evening. I can't remember exactly as it was a few years ago (before CP - God knows what they get now) that stated that if the number of students fell it would result in loss of teaching positions or transfer to other schools. And I should note that this school is always over subscribed.


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    #46
    gaiscioch
    Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭gaiscioch


    Quick question: if you're doing a postgrad in the subject you teach can any of those hours give you exemption from some of the 33 Croke Park hours under CPD or further education? If so, how many hours?

    From New agreement on Croke Park/ 33 hours (12 May 2014):

    "The remaining Croke Park hours must be used for some of all of the following:... appropriate further education activities (for teachers involved in further education as outlined in the agreement)"

    "as outlined in the agreement"?


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    #47
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    gaiscioch wrote: »
    Quick question: if you're doing a postgrad in the subject you teach can any of those hours give you exemption from some of the 33 Croke Park hours under CPD or further education? If so, how many hours?

    From New agreement on Croke Park/ 33 hours (12 May 2014):

    "The remaining Croke Park hours must be used for some of all of the following:... appropriate further education activities (for teachers involved in further education as outlined in the agreement)"

    "as outlined in the agreement"?

    I would assume that "appropriate further education activities" refers to activities concerning the FE sector, rather than the CPD of the teacher involved. In that case, I would also assume that "as outlined in the agreement" refers to how the FE sector is defined.

    I have never heard of anyone being able to tie personal CPD in to CP hours.


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    #48
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    We have an agreement in our school that up to 3 hours of Croke Park hours can be used for CPD. Must be documented and receipt received by principal. Appropriate CPD though is usually education related, like education centre courses etc. I'm not sure a subject specific would be approved. It would be up to your principal.


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    #49
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    mirrorwall14 wrote: »
    We have an agreement in our school that up to 3 hours of Croke Park hours can be used for CPD. Must be documented and receipt received by principal. Appropriate CPD though is usually education related, like education centre courses etc. I'm not sure a subject specific would be approved. It would be up to your principal.
    Gosh, we were clearly
    and definitively told that no personal CPD could be set against CP.

    It seems like different managements interpret the directions differently...


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    #50
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    We are secondary and you are FE I think Katydid? I don't know if the rules are different for you guys. We have a croke park hours committee who sit down every year and decide where the hours are going. It includes both staff and management

    The option for the 3 hours is as follows (individual teachers choice, signed off by management)
    1. 3 hours CPD under an approved course. This is generally an evening course in an Edcuation centre thats way more hours than 3 but we only get 3 recognised
    2. Sit on one of three committees and meet for 3 hours total a year (SSE Committee, Green Schools and ?? Can't remember the third off the top of my head)
    3. 3 hours of S and S

    Management do a check and you must have done either 1 or 2 by March or you are signed up for the extra S and S


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    #51
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    katydid wrote: »
    Gosh, we were clearly
    and definitively told that no personal CPD could be set against CP.

    It seems like different managements interpret the directions differently...

    I think the circular says 'with the agreement of management'. Some principals do like to prolong the after school torture. God forbid you might be doing some useful CPD for your CP hours.


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    #52
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    I think the circular says 'with the agreement of management'. Some principals do like to prolong the after school torture. God forbid you might be doing some useful CPD for your CP hours.
    Ah, that explains it all...


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    #53
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    mirrorwall14 wrote: »
    We are secondary and you are FE I think Katydid? I don't know if the rules are different for you guys. We have a croke park hours committee who sit down every year and decide where the hours are going. It includes both staff and management

    The option for the 3 hours is as follows (individual teachers choice, signed off by management)
    1. 3 hours CPD under an approved course. This is generally an evening course in an Edcuation centre thats way more hours than 3 but we only get 3 recognised
    2. Sit on one of three committees and meet for 3 hours total a year (SSE Committee, Green Schools and ?? Can't remember the third off the top of my head)
    3. 3 hours of S and S

    Management do a check and you must have done either 1 or 2 by March or you are signed up for the extra S and S
    It could be different. Obviously we in FE don't need to do CPD, we are perfect... :-)


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    #54
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    katydid wrote: »
    Ah, that explains it all...

    I will say it took a couple of tries/years before staff managed to get it recognised


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    #55
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    mirrorwall14 wrote: »
    I will say it took a couple of tries/years before staff managed to get it recognised
    We do the committee thing alright. Individual CPD has never been mentioned.

    Hmm. I might bring it up at our staff meeting tomorrow morning, if I can get a word in edgeways. Our principal generally holds the floor 90% of the time.


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    #56
    Elenorrigby
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭Elenorrigby


    S&S has started in our school already - the bane of my year! Have the teachers who can opt out of the scheme been deducted the €1700 yet? One teacher said today that she hadn't! Is this true or is she mistaken?


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