Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

rainbowdash wrote: »

Its not really losing that much though. Most of the running cost goes in staff costs, so straight away a large chunk of this comes straight back in taxes. Then the staff spend their wages and a lot of this comes back in taxes anyway.

I'd say the biggest real cost is the diesel per annum, and of course most of fuel cost comes back in VAT and duty anyway.

rainbowdash wrote: »

Thats funny, I thought the government gave Irish Rail about €175m last year. How do you make out €2.7m is horribly unstainable for CIE, their total handout is about €300m, so closing the WRC would save lesss than 1%.

Lets close all lines that lost money then.

MayoForSam wrote: »

That same argument would also apply to the massive fleet of hypothetical taxi drivers and taxis that would be needed to transport the same passengers for the same cost (door-to-door too, which a train couldn't match).

I took a stroll along a disused section of the track from Tuam to Milltown near Kilconly last weekend and it really brought home what an asset this rail line could be if a much smaller amount of money was spent on it to turn it into a greenway for walkers and cyclists. The scenery even in flat old north Co. Galway was very pleasant to look at, especially on the elevated sections overlooking some small forests and bog lakes. In fact, some of the costs could be recouped by recycling the old rails, scrap metal is getting a very good price these days.

Plenty of community employment schemes could be set up to get some folks off the live register and do a lot of the work, now I wonder will the powers-that-be ever cop on and smell the coffee? Alas, probably not - the lack of capital funding may just kill off the WRC sooner rather than later however.

I commuted from Tuam to Galway by car for over 10 years and the train service, even if it had existed, I wouldn't even have considered it as a train could never have matched the car for speed and convenience (even with the traffic congestion around the city). Tuam to Galway via Athenry :rolleyes: and still be a 20 minute walk from the university / hospital? I don't think so.

CIE wrote: »

Anyone want to bet that hourly trains running from 9 am to 6 pm

dermo88 wrote: »

And its deputy states:

It is not out of spite, schaudenfruede, or pique that the WRC is seen to fail. .

OurLadyofKnock wrote: »

He is really scare of you Westtip.

Press Release

20.05.11

Following a meeting today of the Western Inter-County Railway Committee, a committee consisting of elected representatives of Clare, Galway, Mayo, Roscommon and Sligo County Councils, in Claremorris Co. Mayo, a statement was issued on the future development of the railway between Claremorris and Colloney.

“The Committee has considered the findings of an engineering survey of currently disused Collooney-Claremorris Railway. It is unanimous opinion of all the elected members present that the findings preclude the possibility of developing a greenway along or adjacent to the route of the proposed revitalized line”

A spokesman added that there had been a great deal of misinformed comment on this subject recently but it was now clear that such a greenway was incompatible with the future development of the railway.

Contact Cllr. Micheal McGreal Chairman

Dear Councillors:

I refer to the email below you have received from West on Track. I don’t think there is any need to pull punches here, as the Individual the organization refers to is clearly me; about that I make no denial, however many of the accusations made in the email I refute and have been referred to my lawyer, None of the information I have sent you is either misleading or false, of that I can assure you. Also the fact that my arguments are unacceptable to West on Track are neither here nor there, West on Track do not hold the monopoly on arguments or opinions about the future of the Western Rail corridor. I have never sought to “take control” of the line north of Claremorris as suggested by West on Track, I have merely put into the public agenda an alternative view – one that has gathered credence and is gaining local support in Sligo.

The tone of the email is condescending and makes wild accusations which as I said have been referred to my lawyer – but as legal proceedings will take some time to resolve I feel a response is necessary without making personal accusations. West on Track did not send the email to me, and have not openly asked for a public debate on this issue, I feel the need to make representation to all recipients about the fairly obvious slur on my good name that is being made in the email. I consider it slightly underhand to refer to an individual – not by name but by insinuation – and not to include that person accused in the circulation of the documentation. I do hope they took good legal advice before sending out the email.

Let me make one thing clear. As I am sure a copy of this email will be sent to West on Track - to save anyone forwarding this email I am sending a copy to Colman O Raghallaigh – in an open society I believe in open debate and if an attack is to be made on a persons character rather than the arguments being made by that person – that attack should be made in person, openly and a public debate should be had. I am also sending a copy to Minister Leo Varadkar because lets face it at the end of the day, it will be his call. If the attack on the persons arguments is reduced to name calling and innuendo – then clearly the arguments being made by the accuser are falling foul. This is what I think has happened here.

Regarding all the arguments about Greenway versus Railway versus Railway with parallel greenway on the section of the line from Claremorris to Collooney lets just look at some key points:

Transport 21 makes no clear commitment to re-open this section of the line – if you don’t believe me check out the Transport 21 website. Here is the link to the exact page: http://www.transport21.ie/Projects/Heavy_Rail/Western_Rail_Corridor.html the exact quote is: the line from “Claremorris to Collooney is to be preserved” So please don’t be under any illusions – there were never plans to re-open this section of the line – not from the last government and not from this government. In fact the idea for a greenway along this line was mentioned as a possible use of the line by Eamon O’Cuiv – would you believe at a West on Track Conference back in May 2009 in Claremorris – some of you might have been at that conference but just to remind you – this is what he had to say
Eamon O’Cuiv May 2009, The Minister told the conference that he "would like to take the opportunity to pose a question and that is should we use the section of the railway line north of Claremorris as a walkway and cycleway while it is not open as railway? The Claremorris to Collooney stretch of the railway line will not start before 2014 and its use as a walkway and cycleway would solve a lot of encroachment issues in the meantime. It is something for us to think about."

The Government have committed to building a national cycle network (this was in both the labour and FG manifesto) and is in the programme for Government – and in the view of a growing number of people the route from Claremorris to Collooney represents an excellent opportunity for such a Greenway as part of the National Cycle Network. This is what several of us are doing – arguing in favour of this execution.

By the way for your information, re the further extension of the railway the Labour party made no reference to the further extension of the WRC phase 2 (Athenry Tuam) nor phase 3 (Tuam – Claremorris) in their manifesto, and FG stated both further extensions would be subject to an independent cost benefit analysis – you can make of this what you will – personally I have drawn my own conclusions.

The Western Rail Corridor was the subject of an extensive study in 2005 – the report known as the McCann report became the benchmark/blueprint for the re-opening of the line. The section of the line from Claremorris to Collooney was clearly identified at that stage as the least likely to be re-opened – for two main reasons – it was actually difficult to justify on demographics and therefore demand, and the fact the section of the line was built in the 1890s to light railway standard and the cost to bring it up to the required modern standards was going to be €4.3 million per mile compared to the forecast cost of €2.1 million per mile for the Ennis Athenry section – these are 2005 costs. Ask yourself this question – in the current climate do you really think the Government will be allowed (yes allowed is the right term) to go ahead with such a project?

The conversion of the northern section of the line to a Greenway would not be a “short term gain” as Mr. O Raghallaigh says. Many businesses have benefited from the opening of the Great Western Greenway – which has seen 700 people per day using the route in the Easter holidays. These bring in what I call Tired Hungry Tourists. The line from Collooney to Claremorris may not have the stunning views over Clew Bay but does run through some beautiful countryside which would have massive appeal for both foreign tourists and for internal tourists to use, It would be an ideal execution and bring immediate jobs to both counties Mayo and Sligo. If you want to use your imagination then look at the shots that have been posted on Facebook along the line and imagine Tired Hungry Tourists using this route every day: Take a look at the photos that have been posted you will see what I mean

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001773703036#!/media/set/?set=a.132428960167935.31528.131984266879071

Converting the line to a greenway would be giving the counties of Sligo and Mayo a vital piece of infrastructure that will deliver jobs – and believe me if we sit around waiting for a train from Claremorris to Collooney – we will – and this a personal opinion be waiting until most of our grandchildren are pushing up daisies. However, as many of you know – An Taioseach Enda Kenny has openly said he supports the idea as reported in the Irish Times in January –If you want a copy of the email he sent me get in touch – but please read the Irish Times report here

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0131/1224288605586.html Actually I quite like the idea of having the leader of the government on “my” side, although I don’t see this issue as a battle of one view over another – I see it as massive opportunity for tourism economics in the West of Ireland, I have this sneaking belief that Mr. Kenny agrees with me. Frank Mcdonald wrote this piece, and I have copied this email to Frank for information, - Frank you should read the email below from West on Track to understand the fire I am under for daring to present an alternative view.

Regarding the rest of the Western Rail corridor – the bit from Athenry to Tuam and from Tuam to Claremorris. My personal belief is if these projects are to go ahead – provision should be made for a parallel greenway on the route. This has been achieved as Mr O Raghallaigh quite rightly points out in the UK– and it is my belief it should be done with the proposed route from Athenry to Claremorris indeed it would add huge value to the whole Western Rail corridor project. Personally I don’t think the rail project will go ahead, we know the times we live in, and sacrifices have to be made, and at the time of the opening of the Ennis Athenry section the then Minister of Transport Noel Dempsey said: “However, we all have to face the reality that the current funding environment is very difficult and it will not be possible to progress all the projects in Transport 21 in accordance with the ambitious timescale envisioned at its launch.” Read his full speech here http://www.noeldempsey.ie/index.php/national-speech/speech-for-the-official-re-opening-of-the-western-rail-corridor-monday-29-march-2010

Of course he is not running the show now, but there was a fairly consistent message delivered by the last Minister that this project had to be supported and well supported by the travelling public to ensure the future of the rest of the project. – see next point.

Mr Dempsey went on to say in the same speech “I cannot overstate the critical importance of local support for Phase 1 of the Western Rail Corridor in promoting the development of further phases of the Corridor.
Now that the dream of reopening Phase 1 of the Western Rail Corridor has been realised, the challenge is to ensure its success.”
Regarding current use of the WRC from Ennis to Athenry – It was actually a journalist in the Irish Times who published information gained under an FOI request that showed the line is not actually being used as much as forecast, I think its about 4330 journies per month being made on the line, which equates to about 14 people per train up and down the line. The latent demand it seems actually wasn’t there. If Irish Rail are going to refute their own figures provided under an FOI request to a journalist I look forward to seeing them. The line has clearly not set the world alight but there you go – many people forecast this from the outset. I have copied this email to the journalist in question who wrote this article. Gordon Deegan the link to the article is here: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0310/1224291779125.html It makes interesting reading. If you want a copy of the FOI release to the journalist drop me a line via email and I will send them to you.

I actually believe the WRC campaign has fundamental economic argument flaws, again this is one view, but it is gaining credence, West on Track are entitled to express a view. The west of Ireland is one of the most car dependent societies in Europe, we rely on the road for all of our supply chain logistics, for our social lives and for doing business. With widely dispersed housing patterns and relatively small urban areas, and small communities re-opening a nineteenth century branch line along the route of an old rail line is not going to have the big impact which West on Track claim. In fact I think even if the rail line were put in place from Letterkenny to Limerick it would have minimal economic benefit to the West. Yes it might be nice to have but … The key transport infrastructure for the West of Ireland – is without doubt the Atlantic Road Corridor a view I have expressed in the letters pages of both national and regional newspapers. This project will make a huge difference to the economic well being of the West of Ireland. However I am in complete agreement with West on Track – in the mail below they say “The recovery in Ireland and in particular the west of Ireland will hinge on infrastructure and tourism among other things” Yes – tourism infrastructure as has been clearly proven on the Great Western Greenway will bring us out the doldrums. Yes the upgrading of the N17/18 will make a huge difference. I just think the arguments for a rail line along the old WRC alignment will actually add very little value to our economy. Many economists agree with me – including Colm McCarthy, I have copied this email to Colm so he can see the accusations being made against me.

I could give you more arguments and points folks – Lets leave it at that for now. I am actually quite flattered in a way that all my writing and campaigning on this subject has produced such a personal attack on me from West on Track however I am more interested in dealing with the arguments.

If you want to join the facebook campaign for the SligoMayogrenwaycampaign go to this link: http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100001773703036 More and more people are joining every day – the movement is growing. Also I would ask – why not step up to the plate – if you think the arguments in favour of a greenway are strong ones say so – tell West on Track and lets go for it.

If I had a pub, restaurant, bed and breakfast, hotel along the route – I know what I would like to see and I know which project will create jobs and prosperity.


I remain yours sincerely

www.sligomayogreenway.com

corktina wrote: »

almost impossible to read that email westtip...can you edit it plese...

OurLadyofKnock wrote: »

100% vidication there in his email to Westip. It is like a sort of unofficial QUANGO which sees its own survivial as being the only agenda.

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