Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

15152545657195

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    An 071 would make short work of that fence.

    Bring it on! Anyone attempting to make adverse possession of public property should have a little lesson in what theft results in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭black47


    See updated homepage from WOT website. They must be doing some strong lobbying of IE.
    Comment about a future direct Cork, Limerick to Galway train. Would that have any prospects I wonder?

    Welcome to West=On=Track

    West on Track welcomes series of new developments on Western Rail Corridor

    Press Release Monday Sept 3rd 2012


    The West on Track community campaign has welcomed the announcement by Iarnród Éireann today of a range of new developments on the Galway-Limerick section of the Western Rail Corridor, as well as the outstanding success of this year's summer services which are up 50% over the rest of the year. The announcements include a range of special student fares, free car parking at a number of stations, the availability of wi-fi on all services and the continuing introduction of Inter City Railcars on the route.
    Free car parking at Craughwell, Ardrahan and Gort

    As part of a range of measures being taken to promote the service to capitalize on the additional summer demand through the rest of the year Iarnród Éireann has announced that car parking at Craughwell, Ardrahan and Gort Stations is to be free from Monday 10th September until the end of the year as part of a promotion for Western Rail Corridor customers.
    The company has said that the traditional seasonal boost to passenger numbers on the line from the summer tourist months has once again been demonstrated, with numbers up by 50% during the summer months over the rest of the year.
    Student Fares

    Students can also avail of monthly commuter tickets along the line. This enables students from locations along the route to commute daily to the major third level institutions in Galway and Limerick, saving the cost of renting. For example, unlimited travel for a month between Ennis and Galway is €196.50 equivalent to a per journey cost of just over €4.50 for a student commuting daily Monday to Friday. Adult commuter tickets are also available, with savings of up to 52% available through the Taxsaver scheme through commuter's employers - full information is available at www.taxsaver.ie
    Intercity Rail Cars & wi-fi

    Key services on the route - the 06.20 Galway-Limerick, 18.05 Limerick-Galway, 18.30 Galway-Ennis and 20.15 Ennis-Galway - are now operated by Iarnród Éireann's newest Intercity railcar fleet, which also operates Galway/Dublin and Limerick/Dublin services. In addition, these trains are equipped with free wi-fi, enabling customers to use laptops or mobile devices for work or entertainment while travelling. The regional fleet operating the remainder of Western Rail Corridor services will also be equipped with free wi-fi during September, meaning all WRC services will have wi-fi.
    A spokesperson for Iarnród Éireann said "we are working continuously to improve the quality and value of travelling by rail, and this range of improvements to Western Rail Corridor services is in response to customer feedback and demand. We hope to welcome new customers to the service, and will be promoting these changes across the route." A spokesman for West on Track welcomed the announcements by Iarnród Éireann and the positive engagement by Iarnród Éireann with the community groups along the line.
    "Iarnród Éireann is now working closely with the community and further positive developments are in the pipeline. We are confident that the construction of an important new station at Oranmore as part of Phase 1 of the ongoing Western Rail Corridor project will lead to further strong growth across the route in the near future with increasing numbers of customers availing of both commuter and inter-city services," said the spokesman.
    intercity-rail.jpg
    Consultants' Recommendations regarding development of the Western Rail Corridor

    AECOM/Goodbody Strategic Rail Investments Needs Review

    irish-rail.jpgThe AECOM/Goodbody Strategic Rail Investments Needs Review was presented at Rail Vision 2030, a seminar on the future of rail transport in Ireland in Dublin on Wednesday 22nd February 2012, which was attended by representatives of West on Track. This major report into the future strategy for the national rail network recommended that improvements in speeds and capacity on Intercity lines, including the Limerick-Galway route, be prioritized.
    The AECOM/Goodbody report confirms that there has been strong growth on the Athenry-Galway section since the Limerick-Galway services were introduced 2 years ago. The Ennis-Limerick section remains strong and there will be further growth once Oranmore opens next year. People will then be in a better position to look at how well Phase 1 of the WRC is performing in its totality.
    The report makes the following observations re Phase 1 of the railway:
    "The Western Rail corridor opened to business during 2010, and provides direct InterCity connections between Galway and Limerick. Nevertheless, whilst commuting demand from its catchment into Galway and Limerick is strong, the level of intercity travel is very low, and central sections of the line remain lightly trafficked"
    The consultants then give their view as to why this is the case:
    "It does not offer consistency within the InterCity network, having no capability for seat reservations, promotional tickets and catering."
    They go on to make the following proposals:
    • 11.1 Upgrade all services to inter-city branding with seat reservations, advance purchases and catering.
    • 11.2 Increase frequency to 8 trains per day.
    • 12.1 Introduce 5 direct services per day from Cork – Limerick – Galway as an extension of the Western Rail Corridor.
    Comments by AECOM:

    "The key proposal for this route is therefore to introduce consistency with other InterCity services. The increase in service frequency is proposed as a measure to stimulate more intercity demand."
    The above comments by consultants engaged by IÉ themselves and launched in the presence of Minister Varadkar, mirror exactly the views of West on Track on Phase 1 of the railway.
    Significantly, the consultants added that consideration should now be given to reopening the railway from Tuam to Athenry/Galway as a commuter route.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    steps in the right direction.small ones.

    Didn't the WRC used to be from Sligo /Athenry/ Limerick ? Now it seems it's Galway/Limerick/Cork


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Without wishing to knock all these initiatives, the simple problem for the WRC is lack of people, lack of commuters and the realisation that rural train services such as the WRC will pale even further into insignificance as the roads and bus services improve. Increases of 50% in passenger numbers over the summer? 50% of very little is still very little. The capacity on this route will never be fulfiled in terms of passenger numbers - simply because the passengers aren't there. Commuters? There are less people working and less commuters to service, and because of lack of numbers this never was a sustainable commuter line. Students. You don't build railways to accomodate students for 9 months of the year. Cheaper fares. Not before time, I am not sure it is the root of the problem though. Lack of people is and always will be.

    This effort is definitely the last hurrah - if these things don't work,and paying passengers will be the acid test, not more pensioners on the train. The death knell can be sounded.

    No mention of phases 2 3 and 4 anymore - it seems to be all about getting Athenry - Ennis to limp along better.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    black47 wrote: »
    See updated homepage from WOT website. They must be doing some strong lobbying of IE.
    Comment about a future direct Cork, Limerick to Galway train. Would that have any prospects I wonder?

    Welcome to West=On=Track

    West on Track welcomes series of new developments on Western Rail Corridor

    Press Release Monday Sept 3rd 2012


    The West on Track community campaign has welcomed the announcement by Iarnród Éireann today of a range of new developments on the Galway-Limerick section of the Western Rail Corridor, as well as the outstanding success of this year's summer services which are up 50% over the rest of the year. The announcements include a range of special student fares, free car parking at a number of stations, the availability of wi-fi on all services and the continuing introduction of Inter City Railcars on the route.
    Free car parking at Craughwell, Ardrahan and Gort

    As part of a range of measures being taken to promote the service to capitalize on the additional summer demand through the rest of the year Iarnród Éireann has announced that car parking at Craughwell, Ardrahan and Gort Stations is to be free from Monday 10th September until the end of the year as part of a promotion for Western Rail Corridor customers.
    The company has said that the traditional seasonal boost to passenger numbers on the line from the summer tourist months has once again been demonstrated, with numbers up by 50% during the summer months over the rest of the year.
    Student Fares

    Students can also avail of monthly commuter tickets along the line. This enables students from locations along the route to commute daily to the major third level institutions in Galway and Limerick, saving the cost of renting. For example, unlimited travel for a month between Ennis and Galway is €196.50 equivalent to a per journey cost of just over €4.50 for a student commuting daily Monday to Friday. Adult commuter tickets are also available, with savings of up to 52% available through the Taxsaver scheme through commuter's employers - full information is available at www.taxsaver.ie
    Intercity Rail Cars & wi-fi

    Key services on the route - the 06.20 Galway-Limerick, 18.05 Limerick-Galway, 18.30 Galway-Ennis and 20.15 Ennis-Galway - are now operated by Iarnród Éireann's newest Intercity railcar fleet, which also operates Galway/Dublin and Limerick/Dublin services. In addition, these trains are equipped with free wi-fi, enabling customers to use laptops or mobile devices for work or entertainment while travelling. The regional fleet operating the remainder of Western Rail Corridor services will also be equipped with free wi-fi during September, meaning all WRC services will have wi-fi.
    A spokesperson for Iarnród Éireann said "we are working continuously to improve the quality and value of travelling by rail, and this range of improvements to Western Rail Corridor services is in response to customer feedback and demand. We hope to welcome new customers to the service, and will be promoting these changes across the route." A spokesman for West on Track welcomed the announcements by Iarnród Éireann and the positive engagement by Iarnród Éireann with the community groups along the line.
    "Iarnród Éireann is now working closely with the community and further positive developments are in the pipeline. We are confident that the construction of an important new station at Oranmore as part of Phase 1 of the ongoing Western Rail Corridor project will lead to further strong growth across the route in the near future with increasing numbers of customers availing of both commuter and inter-city services," said the spokesman.
    intercity-rail.jpg
    Consultants' Recommendations regarding development of the Western Rail Corridor

    AECOM/Goodbody Strategic Rail Investments Needs Review

    irish-rail.jpgThe AECOM/Goodbody Strategic Rail Investments Needs Review was presented at Rail Vision 2030, a seminar on the future of rail transport in Ireland in Dublin on Wednesday 22nd February 2012, which was attended by representatives of West on Track. This major report into the future strategy for the national rail network recommended that improvements in speeds and capacity on Intercity lines, including the Limerick-Galway route, be prioritized.
    The AECOM/Goodbody report confirms that there has been strong growth on the Athenry-Galway section since the Limerick-Galway services were introduced 2 years ago. The Ennis-Limerick section remains strong and there will be further growth once Oranmore opens next year. People will then be in a better position to look at how well Phase 1 of the WRC is performing in its totality.
    The report makes the following observations re Phase 1 of the railway:
    "The Western Rail corridor opened to business during 2010, and provides direct InterCity connections between Galway and Limerick. Nevertheless, whilst commuting demand from its catchment into Galway and Limerick is strong, the level of intercity travel is very low, and central sections of the line remain lightly trafficked"
    The consultants then give their view as to why this is the case:
    "It does not offer consistency within the InterCity network, having no capability for seat reservations, promotional tickets and catering."

    They go on to make the following proposals:
    • 11.1 Upgrade all services to inter-city branding with seat reservations, advance purchases and catering.
    • 11.2 Increase frequency to 8 trains per day.
    • 12.1 Introduce 5 direct services per day from Cork – Limerick – Galway as an extension of the Western Rail Corridor.
    Comments by AECOM:

    "The key proposal for this route is therefore to introduce consistency with other InterCity services. The increase in service frequency is proposed as a measure to stimulate more intercity demand."
    The above comments by consultants engaged by IÉ themselves and launched in the presence of Minister Varadkar, mirror exactly the views of West on Track on Phase 1 of the railway.
    Significantly, the consultants added that consideration should now be given to reopening the railway from Tuam to Athenry/Galway as a commuter route.

    This is all positive and is a case of those promoting the railway at the start continuing to do so under their own initiative. Well done.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    westtip wrote: »

    No mention of phases 2 3 and 4 anymore - it seems to be all about getting Athenry - Ennis to limp along better.

    You missed this bit:
    Comments by AECOM:

    "The key proposal for this route is therefore to introduce consistency with other InterCity services. The increase in service frequency is proposed as a measure to stimulate more intercity demand."
    The above comments by consultants engaged by IÉ themselves and launched in the presence of Minister Varadkar, mirror exactly the views of West on Track on Phase 1 of the railway.
    Significantly, the consultants added that consideration should now be given to reopening the railway from Tuam to Athenry/Galway as a commuter route.[/QUOTE]

    This proposal also scored highly in Irish Rail's report into possible future reopenings. Don't freek though, you may well be able to consume north of Tuam given the scorings IR gave to north of Tuam.


  • Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭black47


    You missed this bit:
    Comments by AECOM:

    "The key proposal for this route is therefore to introduce consistency with other InterCity services. The increase in service frequency is proposed as a measure to stimulate more intercity demand."
    The above comments by consultants engaged by IÉ themselves and launched in the presence of Minister Varadkar, mirror exactly the views of West on Track on Phase 1 of the railway.
    Significantly, the consultants added that consideration should now be given to reopening the railway from Tuam to Athenry/Galway as a commuter route.[/QUOTE]

    This proposal also scored highly in Irish Rail's report into possible future reopenings. Don't freek though, you may well be able to consume north of Tuam given the scorings IR gave to north of Tuam.

    For some strange reason I think that WOT will get their way and get the line extended to Tuam eventually. Enda and Michael Ring are quietly by stealth, without any major publicity, getting significant projects built to serve west e.g.

    M17/18 Gort Tuam - To start Jan 2013
    N5 Longford bypass -Done
    N5 Ballaghadreen bypass starting shortly
    Extension of Westport Achill Greenway out to Murrisk/Croagh Patrick
    Galway outer bypass - Has been committed to be built but not in short term


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    how much longer will those guys be in power though?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    corktina wrote: »
    how much longer will those guys be in power though?

    Who else though? Sinn Fein and Fianna Fail in coalition, the cowboys and the indians together? :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    More WOT spoofery (quoting 2030 vision FFS)
    This enables students from locations along the route to commute daily to the major third level institutions in Galway and Limerick
    So this means halts are to be built at Parkway (UL-ish), Longpavement (LIT) and Renmore (GMIT)? Yeah, I didn't think so. Integrated fares with city buses to get them to the colleges? Didn't think so either.

    22Ks? BFD. The way things are going we'll see 22Ks Cork-Midleton.

    All this bending over backwards when Nenagh commuters were shafted and Waterford/Clonmel/Cahir people can't get to Limerick before 9 because of a ludicrously long delay at the Junction.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    This is all positive and is a case of those promoting the railway at the start continuing to do so under their own initiative. Well done.
    Ask the Nenagh Rail Partnership what happened to the Nenagh-Limerick commuter rail market after the Alan Kelly TGV schedule change which made the last train to Nenagh 1705.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭pigtown


    dowlingm wrote: »
    More WOT spoofery (quoting 2030 vision FFS)

    So this means halts are to be built at Parkway (UL-ish), Longpavement (LIT) and Renmore (GMIT)? Yeah, I didn't think so. Integrated fares with city buses to get them to the colleges? Didn't think so either.

    It may not seem likely but halts at UL and LIT would make a lot of sense, and if the government were serious about providing public transport to people outside of Dublin and Cork there would at least be a feasibility study on this.
    dowlingm wrote: »
    Ask the Nenagh Rail Partnership what happened to the Nenagh-Limerick commuter rail market after the Alan Kelly TGV schedule change which made the last train to Nenagh 1705.

    AS far as I can recall, the NRP actually welcomed the new schedule. God only knows why but there you go.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    pigtown wrote: »
    It may not seem likely but halts at UL and LIT would make a lot of sense, and if the government were serious about providing public transport to people outside of Dublin and Cork there would at least be a feasibility study on this.



    AS far as I can recall, the NRP actually welcomed the new schedule. God only knows why but there you go.

    Because it suited them? Perhaps they knew better about their own local conditions?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    pigtown wrote: »
    It may not seem likely but halts at UL and LIT would make a lot of sense, and if the government were serious about providing public transport to people outside of Dublin and Cork there would at least be a feasibility study on this.
    .

    And find our a fleet of buses would be a fraction of the cost, provide a more flexible service and be used. What is it about building railways through isolated parts of rural west of ireland that really gets people on the campaign trail?
    black47 wrote: »
    You missed this bit:
    For some strange reason I think that WOT will get their way and get the line extended to Tuam eventually. Enda and Michael Ring are quietly by stealth, without any major publicity, getting significant projects built to serve west e.g.

    M17/18 Gort Tuam - To start Jan 2013

    It is precisely this project that will kill off the northern branch line!
    Comments by AECOM:

    "The key proposal for this route is therefore to introduce consistency with other InterCity services. The increase in service frequency is proposed as a measure to stimulate more intercity demand."
    The above comments by consultants engaged by IÉ themselves and launched in the presence of Minister Varadkar, mirror exactly the views of West on Track on Phase 1 of the railway.
    Significantly, the consultants added that consideration should now be given to reopening the railway from Tuam to Athenry/Galway as a commuter route.

    I can assure you Varadkar will not put his ministerial pen to an order to re-open Athenry Tuam - because he will cite -the failure of ennis/athenry to set the world alight. Believe me Ring and Kenny are far more supportive of the N17 project than the northern branch line. This is typical WOT spin doctoring to get the idea of the WRC back in the share of voice in the media - Articles referring to the greenway idea, voices on local media and indeed national media and support in Irish Times editorial has resulted in WOT losing the PR was, so that's why they are back on the Press release game with their usual twaddle and nonsense.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 878 ✭✭✭rainbowdash


    westtip wrote: »
    And find our a fleet of buses would be a fraction of the cost, provide a more flexible service and be used. What is it about building railways through isolated parts of rural west of ireland that really gets people on the campaign trail?

    .

    He mentioned halts at longpavement and parkway. He never mentioned building any new railway, and neither longpavement or parkway are rural parts of the west of Ireland:confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭pigtown


    Because it suited them? Perhaps they knew better about their own local conditions?

    I'm not saying they don't. But the Nenagh Rail Partnership was set up to campaign for a commuter service to and from Limerick. They got this but the new schedule effectively cancels out all the improvements to the commuter service. I just wonder why they support what I see as an erosion of services. Maybe I'm wrong.
    westtip wrote: »
    And find our a fleet of buses would be a fraction of the cost, provide a more flexible service and be used. What is it about building railways through isolated parts of rural west of ireland that really gets people on the campaign trail?

    I'm not campaigning for anything, nor am I advocating any new lines to be built. I'm merely pointing out that Limerick city has an abundance of rail lines already, and the construction of new halts at certain points could transform public tranport in the city. Maybe a fleet of buses would be better, but how can we know when a feasibility study hasn't been carried out?
    I also question your discription of the Parkway and Longpavement as 'isolated parts of rural west of Ireland'. They are major suburbs of the third largest city in the state.


  • Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 5,842 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quackster


    westtip wrote: »
    a few photos taken out near Colooney - these are about half a mile before the WRC meets the Dublin Sligo line - of course this is the ultimate goal for West on track to have the rail line opened up as far as here - its never going to happen because a bit of land grabbing has been going on. The black fence around the photos landgrab 1 and landgrab 2 is a new appearance - the relatively new bungalow next to this fencing was of cours given permission to build in the boom times - at around the time Sligo County council put a strategic aim in the county development plan to suppor the re-opening of the western rail corridor. It seems the county development plan was gathering dust in the planners office at the time. Of course this kind of action now raises concerns about the Greenway right of way as well.

    As far as I'm aware, this line hasn't been formally abandoned and therefore the Act of Parliament establishing it hasn't been repealed. In that case, the
    permanent way is protected by statute law so (as statute law trumps common law) adverse possession cannot take place, no matter how long a person swats on it.

    Of course, the actuality of removing said swatter(s) is another matter due to the time and resources consumed in taking legal action. We're currently suffering such a problem here in Kerry trying to develop the Tralee to Fenit Greenway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,461 ✭✭✭popebenny16


    pigtown wrote: »
    I'm not saying they don't. But the Nenagh Rail Partnership was set up to campaign for a commuter service to and from Limerick. They got this but the new schedule effectively cancels out all the improvements to the commuter service. I just wonder why they support what I see as an erosion of services. Maybe I'm wrong.

    NRP did a very detailed passenger survey on the branch in July. I imagine that they will have made some representation to IE on it. My impression talking to the lad doing the survey was that there are as many theories about the Alan Kelly express as there are labour votes in Nenagh. Was Alan shafted by IE? But didnt he say in the Nenagh Guardian that he lobbied for the service? Do NRP want the branch to be a efficeintly working branch line with shuttles that meet the mainline services and allow commuters to get to and from Limerick? Do they, at the same time, want services to go to and from brophy non-stop to dublin like a north tipp limo?Who knows.....:cool:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    black47 wrote: »
    See updated homepage from WOT website. They must be doing some strong lobbying of IE.
    Comment about a future direct Cork, Limerick to Galway train. Would that have any prospects I wonder?

    Welcome to West=On=Track

    West on Track welcomes series of new developments on Western Rail Corridor

    Press Release Monday Sept 3rd 2012

    Connacht Tribune is carrying this PR today
    http://www.galwaynews.ie/27628-new-drive-increase-train-passenger-numbers


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    pigtown wrote: »
    I'm not saying they don't. But the Nenagh Rail Partnership was set up to campaign for a commuter service to and from Limerick. They got this but the new schedule effectively cancels out all the improvements to the commuter service. I just wonder why they support what I see as an erosion of services. Maybe I'm wrong.



    I'm not campaigning for anything, nor am I advocating any new lines to be built. I'm merely pointing out that Limerick city has an abundance of rail lines already, and the construction of new halts at certain points could transform public tranport in the city. Maybe a fleet of buses would be better, but how can we know when a feasibility study hasn't been carried out?
    I also question your discription of the Parkway and Longpavement as 'isolated parts of rural west of Ireland'. They are major suburbs of the third largest city in the state.

    Welcome to C&T's infamous WRC thread. Westtip is merely trying to get you to "get with the program" :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭pigtown


    Thanks for the welcome but I've been lurking here for a fair bit and posting the odd time. As for getting with the programme, as far as I can see there are three on this thread.
    1. Close the damn thing and forget it ever happened
    2. Build a greenway.
    3. WoT are evil and deserve all of the blame for WRC problems.

    Nobody ever seems to suggest ways of improving the service provided on the line and to be honest I think the reason is that nobody is familiar enough with it. In the same way that I don't know the ins and outs of the Maynooth line and its issues, other commentators don't know what it would take to get more people from Limerick or Ennis or Galway onto the trains.

    From a Limerick perspective I would hazard that halts at Longpavement and Parkway would encourage alot more customers whose final destinations are UL or Thomond Park/Gaelic Grounds, as well as providing locals with another option of getting into the city. But that's just speculation and I really feel that feasibility studies need to be carried out before anything can be dismissed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    pigtown wrote: »
    Thanks for the welcome but I've been lurking here for a fair bit and posting the odd time. As for getting with the programme, as far as I can see there are three on this thread.
    1. Close the damn thing and forget it ever happened
    2. Build a greenway.
    3. WoT are evil and deserve all of the blame for WRC problems.

    Nobody ever seems to suggest ways of improving the service provided on the line and to be honest I think the reason is that nobody is familiar enough with it. In the same way that I don't know the ins and outs of the Maynooth line and its issues, other commentators don't know what it would take to get more people from Limerick or Ennis or Galway onto the trains.

    From a Limerick perspective I would hazard that halts at Longpavement and Parkway would encourage alot more customers whose final destinations are UL or Thomond Park/Gaelic Grounds, as well as providing locals with another option of getting into the city. But that's just speculation and I really feel that feasibility studies need to be carried out before anything can be dismissed.


    The Maynooth line is interesting, it came out of the period where there were three General Elections in a row. In June 1981, the first one, the local Fine Gaelers were circulating possible timetables which looked remarkably like the timetable eventually adopted. In September 1981 the new FG Minister for Transport announced that he had "Instructed" the board of CIE to institute commuter services from Connolly, serving Drumcondra, Liffey Junction, Ashtown, Castleknock, Coolmine, Clonsilla, Lucan North, Leixlip and Maynooth. CIE went along but only opened Clonsilla, Leixlip and Maynooth first in November 1981 and Ashtown in January 1982.


    To show how history repeats itself, there was a comment in the following IRRS journal's Irish Railway News spot, saying that the institution of Maynooth Commuter services compromised the operational efficency of the Railway. In practice, for a long long time the service was operated by the rotting hulks of the infamous push pull sets, de-engined railcars from the 1950s which had been nice internally once upon a time, but by then were plastic seated brown and pus coloured interiors.

    Only a handful of trains ran, four in the morning and four in the evening and it was around this time that our Wise Ones in the Sindo were questioning the existence of the railway at all during the DART project. Only when DART was commissioned in June 1984 did the seating improve, and only in 1990 were most of the missing stations built, with doubling of the line from Clonsilla to Maynooth as late as 2001.

    Now, it is one of the pivotal rail services in the country. Then it was derided as a waste. This is not to say that WRC is an exact parallel, as I would be hopped on if I said that, but when rail services offer people what they want from a journey FFS it shouldn't be knocked.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭pigtown


    That is interesting, but I'm not going to pretend that I intended any comparison there. I was just searching for another rail line with a name I could remember. It does show that a bit of effort and planning can have positive results though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    pigtown wrote: »
    That is interesting, but I'm not going to pretend that I intended any comparison there. I was just searching for another rail line with a name I could remember. It does show that a bit of effort and planning can have positive results though.

    In a roundabout way I was trying to say that yesterday's political decision can have good consequences tomorrow. However nothing has ever been easy to get good news for the railway since time immemorial - short term decision making and running the railway don't mix very well.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    pigtown wrote: »
    Thanks for the welcome but I've been lurking here for a fair bit and posting the odd time. As for getting with the programme, as far as I can see there are three on this thread.
    1. Close the damn thing and forget it ever happened
    2. Build a greenway.
    3. WoT are evil and deserve all of the blame for WRC problems.

    .

    I think we should take closer inspection of these comments, in particular point 3. No one is suggesting WOT is evil and deserve all of the blame for the WRC problems. Far from it - the argument has always been that WOT are really barking up the wrong tree and their arguments cannot be supported on socio-economic grounds. Demographics, economics and overall demand for the WRC simply do not support the arguments to invest any more public money in the WRC; sooner or later the realisation there are not enough people on this route to sustain or justify the service levels been demanded or even being provided. Its good money after bad. I note the comparisons with Maynooth commuter services above, the simple word which means there is no comparison is this: Demographics. Simple as - not enough people.

    The Greenway way arguments however, are based on sound economics (increasing tourism), sound examples - look at what has been achieved for uk cycling tourism with Sustrans getting so many greenways opened there, not to mention the entire global trend to use old railways for this purpose. sound social reasons - we simply don't have walking facilities in local areas in ireland for social walks in peoples localities, sound Health and safety - walking and cycling promotes health, being separated from our dangerous roads is safer. And as it happens where we have created greenways in Ireland they have been an immense success.

    Re close the dam thing and forget it ever happened - no comment to make on this sound idea.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    westtip wrote: »
    I think we shoud take closer inspection of these comments, in particular point 3. Noone is suggesting WOT is evil and deserve all of the blame for the WRC problems. Far from it - the argument has always been that WOT are really barking up the wrong tree and their arguments cannot be supported on socio-economic grounds. Demographics, economics and overall demand for the WRC simply do not suppor the arguments to invest any more public money in the WRC. Its good money after bad. I note the comparisons with Maynooth commuter services above, the simple word which means there is no comparis is this: Demographics.

    The Greenway way arguments however, are based on sound economics (increasing tourism), sound examples - look at what has been achieved for uk cycling tourism with Sustrans getting so many greenways opened there, not to mention the entire global trend to use old railways for this purpose. sound social reasons - we simply don't have walking facilities in local areas in ireland for social walks in peoples localities, sound Health and safety - walking and cycling promotes health, being separated from our dangerous roads is safer. And as it happens where we have created greenways in Ireland they have been an immense success.

    Re close the dam thing and forget it ever happened - no comment to make on this sound idea.

    No comment on the fact that Derry City Council installed a cycleway beside the Foyle Valley Railway tourist narrow gauge and their health and safety people promptly closed the railway, never to be used again?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭pigtown


    westtip wrote: »
    1 I think we shoud take closer inspection of these comments, in particular point 3. Noone is suggesting WOT is evil and deserve all of the blame for the WRC problems. Far from it - the argument has always been that WOT are really barking up the wrong tree and their arguments cannot be supported on socio-economic grounds. Demographics, economics and overall demand for the WRC simply do not suppor the arguments to invest any more public money in the WRC. Its good money after bad. I note the comparisons with Maynooth commuter services above, the simple word which means there is no comparis is this: Demographics.

    2 The Greenway way arguments however, are based on sound economics (increasing tourism), sound examples - look at what has been achieved for uk cycling tourism with Sustrans getting so many greenways opened there, not to mention the entire global trend to use old railways for this purpose. sound social reasons - we simply don't have walking facilities in local areas in ireland for social walks in peoples localities, sound Health and safety - walking and cycling promotes health, being separated from our dangerous roads is safer. And as it happens where we have created greenways in Ireland they have been an immense success.

    Re close the dam thing and forget it ever happened - no comment to make on this sound idea.

    1 Some posters on here and other threads seem to hold WoT as the sole group responsible for the WRC. I say this because I remember defending their right to campaign for anything they like and pointing the blame at whomever sanctioned the reopening in its current form. When you speak about demographics you don't seem to realise the location of the WRC as it approaches Limerick station. It passes through some major suburbs and I would argue that the demographics favour the construction of halts in these areas. And RE the Maynooth line, if you read the comments again you will see my reason for mentioning it.

    2 I don't question the benefits of a greenway, and infact I note that Limerick County Council have applied for permission to extend the Great Southern Trail as far as the Kerry border, I just wonder why it occupies so much of a thread about the WRC, and no discussion on possible ways of improving the service.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,470 ✭✭✭highlydebased


    Long pavement and parkway stations would be a waste. Students who travel to Galway/Ennis already use the bus services which operate from both LIT and UL. People wanting to travel to Dublin/Cork etc are highly unlikely to get a shuttle to the Parkway, a train into town and then onto another train, not to mention the cost of it. Bear in mind Dublin Coach and JJ Kavanagh have much of the Dublin bound business from UL.

    I'd like to see a proper suburban rail network in Limerick but Parkway and particularly Longpavement would not be the way to go.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭pigtown


    You might be right. I'm not saying these should be built, I'm merely saying that a feasibility study should be carried out on any and all possible projects that would make the WRC more attractive to passengers.

    And just as a thought, LIT are planning on establishing a transport system that links their proposed new campus at Coonagh to their existing ones at Moylish and Clare St. I would suggest that extending it to meet a halt at Parkway and on to UL would do alot for the WRCs popularity among students.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭MayoForSam


    We should not be confusing the issue by assuming that folks are either for or against the entire WRC.

    The second post on this thread from 3 years ago still holds:
    corktina wrote: »
    potential...

    limerick to ennis quite good
    ennis to galway may be Ok
    galway to tuam doubtful
    tuam northward none

    IMHO

    There may very well be a good argument to be made by local advocates, more familiar with the area, supporting additional stops at Longpavement and Parkway in Limerick. This holds for all urban areas in the country where the commuting population may justify a rail service.

    No one is saying a Greenway should be built immediately adjacent to the revamped Galway-Ennis line (perhaps in future if circumstances were to change). H&S aspects would of course need to be considered if this was to happen.

    Those of us living near the northern section realise the futility (based on demographics, proposed M17, etc.) of trains ever running again on the track in Galway, Mayo and Sligo. A Greenway should be built ASAP north of Galway (and certainly Tuam) to promote tourism in the west. However, WOT seem determined not to even discuss this possibility and the government / local politicians are reluctant to propose anything too radical (nothing new there).


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭glineli


    Planning submitted to Clare County Council again for the new Crusheen station


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    pigtown - there is a curious relationship between WoT and IE, WoT always seem to know when an IE press release is coming out and hijack it for their own ends. Their whole attitude of "look what they (usually Dublin) got we want what's due" is not only divisive but often based on false premises.

    (incidentally if you have any links to discussion of the proposed LIT inter-campus connector I'd be interested in a look)

    highlydebased - to be honest because of the way IE and BE Limerick are unintegrated, I would agree a Parkway halt would be of limited utility - I only mention it because WoT claim people will commute from Galway to UL on the service as it is now and then schlep out on the bus (which when I took it was a decent walk from Colbert). At least the Parkway would halve the connection distance. Also, you mention the Dublin market but I don't see the Parkway station being attractive there because of the need to go in Colbert and likely change trains, just for the Galway/Ennis/Sixmilebridge catchment. Last I heard it was still 5mph in and out of Colbert yard so I figure there is some time to be gained by avoiding going there at all.

    Longpavement on the other hand... I think if we're serious about Moyross - let's be honest gentrifying it, a word I think gets too bad a rap - then a railway station is a fairly significant permanent investment in respect of local planning which unlike Broombridge has a significant demand centre Mon-Fri plus an occasional demand centre for leisure activities (Thomond Park) which should put many eyes on it especially if the 309 bus called there too. In the early stages you'd only be talking about a 90m platform, a shelter and a TVM anyway - not even a car park, hardly mad money; no loop but it's not far enough into the block that one would add a lot of flex to the schedule unlike somewhere like Cratloe or Sixmilebridge. The trains aren't tearing onto/from the Shannon bridge so the stop/go wouldn't be from what passes for full speed.

    EDIT: as of the 16th the Moyross bus will apparently be the 303: http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1347005558-Limerick-city-network.pdf


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    dowlingm wrote: »
    Longpavement on the other hand... I think if we're serious about Moyross - let's be honest gentrifying it, a word I think gets too bad a rap - then a railway station is a fairly significant permanent investment in respect of local planning which unlike Broombridge has a significant demand centre Mon-Fri plus an occasional demand centre for leisure activities (Thomond Park) which should put many eyes on it especially if the 309 bus called there too.

    Anyone who thinks that €3bn will be spent on Limerick 'regeneration' has another think coming, Moyross will be emptied and bulldozed. Probably seeded with salt and all. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    glineli wrote: »
    Planning submitted to Clare County Council again for the new Crusheen station
    :rolleyes: A village of a few thousand gets a station because of a Celtic Tiger commitment at the behest of a developer, a station likely for the most part cannibalising existing Ennis custom, and wasn't there a dispute over the station/lands too?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,536 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    dowlingm wrote: »
    :rolleyes: A village of a few thousand gets a station because of a Celtic Tiger commitment at the behest of a developer, a station likely for the most part cannibalising existing Ennis custom, and wasn't there a dispute over the station/lands too?

    Few thousand? 864 at the 2011 census.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭glineli


    dowlingm wrote: »
    :rolleyes: A village of a few thousand gets a station because of a Celtic Tiger commitment at the behest of a developer, a station likely for the most part cannibalising existing Ennis custom, and wasn't there a dispute over the station/lands too?

    Yes, the local developer wanted more cash so didnt hand over the land. The new station now is also a bit of a walk aswell. I just cant see people using it. Please put the cash towards gort - tuam road!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    MayoForSam wrote: »
    We should not be confusing the issue by assuming that folks are either for or against the entire WRC.

    The second post on this thread from 3 years ago still holds:



    There may very well be a good argument to be made by local advocates, more familiar with the area, supporting additional stops at Longpavement and Parkway in Limerick. This holds for all urban areas in the country where the commuting population may justify a rail service.

    No one is saying a Greenway should be built immediately adjacent to the revamped Galway-Ennis line (perhaps in future if circumstances were to change). H&S aspects would of course need to be considered if this was to happen.

    Those of us living near the northern section realise the futility (based on demographics, proposed M17, etc.) of trains ever running again on the track in Galway, Mayo and Sligo. A Greenway should be built ASAP north of Galway (and certainly Tuam) to promote tourism in the west. However, WOT seem determined not to even discuss this possibility and the government / local politicians are reluctant to propose anything too radical (nothing new there).

    In the impossible event that anyone ever decided to build a railway through Quigley's Point to Derry I would be delighted, and use it. Can't ever see a situation where I would say "no don't want your naughty infrastructure, please make it impossible to use". Maybe it's just me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    glineli wrote: »
    Yes, the local developer wanted more cash so didnt hand over the land. The new station now is also a bit of a walk aswell. I just cant see people using it. Please put the cash towards gort - tuam road!!!

    Dundrum bypass: 1km of road, €1m to build, €13m to owners of land.

    Throwing impossible amounts of money into the hands of landowners for roads seems to be okay though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Idyll - the station at Crusheen probably wouldn't have been on the radar if it wasn't for the developer offering the land. Once negotiations hit a pothole IE should have just walked away. Also: if you're talking about Dundrum in Dublin it's a pretty different situation to if 13m had been paid for a 1km chunk of road in the Crusheen area.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    dowlingm wrote: »
    Idyll - the station at Crusheen probably wouldn't have been on the radar if it wasn't for the developer offering the land. Once negotiations hit a pothole IE should have just walked away. Also: if you're talking about Dundrum in Dublin it's a pretty different situation to if 13m had been paid for a 1km chunk of road in the Crusheen area.

    Is there anywhere where we can see the trade off between construction costs and land acquisition for the M17/M18? I cited Dundrum because it was one of the very few occasions that the veil was lifted from the incredibly opaque process of compensating land owners for road construction. A very small number of people have enriched themselves in Ireland for having a holding on the right line on a map, which could well have been shifted for party political reasons.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭MayoForSam


    In the impossible event that anyone ever decided to build a railway through Quigley's Point to Derry I would be delighted, and use it. Can't ever see a situation where I would say "no don't want your naughty infrastructure, please make it impossible to use". Maybe it's just me.

    I'm not so sure I would be happy for someone to come along and build a railway out the back of my house using taxpayer's (i.e. my) money unless there was a very good business case for doing so and it served the greater good.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    MayoForSam wrote: »
    I'm not so sure I would be happy for someone to come along and build a railway out the back of my house using taxpayer's (i.e. my) money unless there was a very good business case for doing so and it served the greater good.

    Well, your mileage may vary. I wouldn't get into a panic about any working railway "spoiling" the Burma Road any time soon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭pigtown


    dowlingm wrote: »
    1 pigtown - there is a curious relationship between WoT and IE, WoT always seem to know when an IE press release is coming out and hijack it for their own ends. Their whole attitude of "look what they (usually Dublin) got we want what's due" is not only divisive but often based on false premises.

    2 (incidentally if you have any links to discussion of the proposed LIT inter-campus connector I'd be interested in a look)

    3 highlydebased - to be honest because of the way IE and BE Limerick are unintegrated, I would agree a Parkway halt would be of limited utility - I only mention it because WoT claim people will commute from Galway to UL on the service as it is now and then schlep out on the bus (which when I took it was a decent walk from Colbert). At least the Parkway would halve the connection distance. Also, you mention the Dublin market but I don't see the Parkway station being attractive there because of the need to go in Colbert and likely change trains, just for the Galway/Ennis/Sixmilebridge catchment. Last I heard it was still 5mph in and out of Colbert yard so I figure there is some time to be gained by avoiding going there at all.

    4 Longpavement on the other hand... I think if we're serious about Moyross - let's be honest gentrifying it, a word I think gets too bad a rap - then a railway station is a fairly significant permanent investment in respect of local planning which unlike Broombridge has a significant demand centre Mon-Fri plus an occasional demand centre for leisure activities (Thomond Park) which should put many eyes on it especially if the 309 bus called there too. In the early stages you'd only be talking about a 90m platform, a shelter and a TVM anyway - not even a car park, hardly mad money; no loop but it's not far enough into the block that one would add a lot of flex to the schedule unlike somewhere like Cratloe or Sixmilebridge. The trains aren't tearing onto/from the Shannon bridge so the stop/go wouldn't be from what passes for full speed.

    EDIT: as of the 16th the Moyross bus will apparently be the 303: http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1347005558-Limerick-city-network.pdf

    1. Hey I'm not saying I agree with WoT, I was just making the point that whatever you think of them, they are entitled to campaign for anything they want. At the end of the day its not them that makes the final decision.

    2. The LIT expansion plans were announced to much fanfare this week but info about the project is thin on the ground. There was mention of linking up the three campuses with some sort of a transport system. I'd imagine it will be a few shuttle buses. There is a thread on it here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056744910

    3. I would imagine a Parkway halt with a shuttle would really only serve the passengers from Ennis/Galway working or schooling in UL or the technology park in Plassey. I do think it would encourage students from Ennis in particular to get the train as it's so far from Colbert. And you may not be aware that UL and NUIG actually have an exchange programme that involves students attending both colleges in the same year. This does lead to students basing themselves in one city for the year and commuting up and down when they need to.

    4. The Moyross regen plan actually includes a station at Longpavement. I would see demand coming from the bigger population getting into the city or shopping at the centres around Parkway. LIT students at Moylish could also be tempted to use it. Big match days at Thomond or the Gaelic Grounds could possibly see passengers from Galway, Cork and Dublin as interchange at Colbert would be relatively easy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭glineli


    Dundrum bypass: 1km of road, €1m to build, €13m to owners of land.

    Throwing impossible amounts of money into the hands of landowners for roads seems to be okay though.

    I wasnt talking about landowners, i was talking about the building costs. As far as i know, all the land has already been purchased for the M18


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Well done Galway News - they didn't take the latest propaganda Press release from WOT and just produce it verbatim - they reported the bit WOT failed to point out in their press release
    New drive to increase train passenger numbers
    September 6, 2012 - 7:00am
    by Enda Cunningham
    Iarnród Éireann is offering free parking at several Galway stops in an effort to boost passenger numbers on the floundering service to Limerick.

    Recent figures showed and average of just 95 people per day were using the route – one-third of initial projections – last year.However, the rail company has said passenger numbers rose by 50% during the summer months.

    http://www.galwaynews.ie/27628-new-drive-increase-train-passenger-numbers

    50% increase over the summer - so we now rejoice at almost 150 passengers per day on the 12 daily trains - How many fare paying passengers - we don't know but with six up trains and six down trains a day its still an average of 13 passengers per train - a large minibus or small coachload - depending which way you look at it!

    If 95 per day was one third of initial projections - then initial projects were about 300 a day - it seems the real 50% that should be headlined is that in the summer - the line managed to achieve 50% of it's projected figures for passenger numbers; my guess is things won't get much better in the Autumn. Just a hunch.

    You can fudge figures but you can't fudge the truth. Demographics, not enough people, car dependent society etc etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 70 ✭✭Wote


    westtip wrote: »
    Well done Galway News - they didn't take the latest propaganda Press release from WOT and just produce it verbatim - they reported the bit WOT failed to point out in their press release
    New drive to increase train passenger numbers
    September 6, 2012 - 7:00am
    by Enda Cunningham
    Iarnród Éireann is offering free parking at several Galway stops in an effort to boost passenger numbers on the floundering service to Limerick.

    Recent figures showed and average of just 95 people per day were using the route – one-third of initial projections – last year.However, the rail company has said passenger numbers rose by 50% during the summer months.

    http://www.galwaynews.ie/27628-new-drive-increase-train-passenger-numbers

    50% increase over the summer - so we now rejoice at almost 150 passengers per day on the 12 daily trains - How many fare paying passengers - we don't know but with six up trains and six down trains a day its still an average of 13 passengers per train - a large minibus or small coachload - depending which way you look at it!

    If 95 per day was one third of initial projections - then initial projects were about 300 a day - it seems the real 50% that should be headlined is that in the summer - the line managed to achieve 50% of it's projected figures for passenger numbers; my guess is things won't get much better in the Autumn. Just a hunch.

    You can fudge figures but you can't fudge the truth. Demographics, not enough people, car dependent society etc etc.

    So you found some figures to back up your anti rail agenda. Take a pat on the head.

    There is a longer game being played with the WRC, in that ultimately it will connect up Cork with Sligo by rail and maybe even Donegal at a later stage.

    The Maynooth line took a number of years to build up custom and so too will the WRC when it is properly expanded. Watch this space.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭dermo88


    Wote

    There is a longer game being played with the WRC, in that ultimately it will connect up Cork with Sligo by rail and maybe even Donegal at a later stage.


    The cows are small because they are far away. Look at the picture.

    Near....

    Far away....

    Good. I hope you understand the reference.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    I dunno, do they get Father Ted in London?


    Just want to point out by way of an edit , that Cork and Sligo are already linked by rail.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,139 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    westtip wrote: »
    the 12 daily trains
    six up trains and six down trains a day
    between galway and limerick? lucky them. meanwhile its closely followed by the rosslare dublin line with their fantastic 5 down and 4 up trains per day (i know i know) we should be greatful as were lucky to have a train service at all considering irish rail would shut and lift the line if they could but still the fact that a line which has more users is further down the pecking order then the WRC is a kick in the face to be honest.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.



  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 70 ✭✭Wote


    corktina wrote: »
    I dunno, do they get Father Ted in London?


    Just want to point out by way of an edit , that Cork and Sligo are already linked by rail.

    So too are Galway and Limerick following your logic.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement