A guy in Cork lost €1,700 to a very sneaky car scam on Done Deal

duffman3833 · 24-08-2015 2:17pm #1

Read this on Joe.ie and it got me thinking, a lot of people calling them stupid for not test driving the car but it could happen anyone, i don't think all the info is there, like who's car was it? when it said the key didn't work, did they mean in the ignition or to enter the car. Anyone else hear of this story?

"A man in Cork named Benny was the victim of a cruel scam after agreeing to buy a car on Done Deal.
Benny travelled to Meath to look at a '04 Toyota Corolla he had agreed in principle to buy it for €1,700 after seeing it on the site.
The person selling it arranged to meet Benny and his daughter, who the car was for, at 10pm near his house in Ashbourne.
The two arrived at the agreed time and place and met a man wearing a hi-vis vest who showed them the car and everyone was happy with the deal.
The seller gave the girl a key but said before letting her drive it away, he needed to show his mother the money because "they were almost scammed last week by someone using forged notes".

The girl walked up to the nearby house and gave your man the money so he could show to his mother. He walked in around the side of the house and was never seen again.
She ran back to the car to tell her dad what happened and when they tried the key in the Corolla, it didn't fit. No!
They went up to the house and rang the doorbell, an elderly woman appeared saying she didn't know anything about a car for sale.
They called the Gardaí and they informed them that similar scams were happening all over the place, they're currently investigating it."

Valetta · 24-08-2015 2:20pm

It's because there are idiots like this that scammers' scams work.

hotcontents · 24-08-2015 2:21pm

Ye I remember reading about this when the story initially broke.
Don't have too much sympathy for them to be honest, they shouldn't have handed over any money until they were 100% happy everything was in place and they could have easily insisted that the money was checked at the car.

colm_mcm · 24-08-2015 2:24pm

Harsh but partly true.

Buying a car isn't something most people do too often. It's easy to forget things.

When I was buying the civic, I had the change of ownership filled out, cup of tea drank, big chat had - everything done.

I only remembered as I was walking out the door that I hadn't paid for the car.

You may well have read all the guides about what to do and not do, but when it comes down to it you don't want to appear rude, you may be rushed, or you may just get excited about getting a new car.

Toyotafanboi · 24-08-2015 2:25pm

Who buys a car literally without opening the door?

I feel bad for the but jaysis thats silly. Did they just look at the outside and hand over the cash?

duffman3833 · 24-08-2015 2:27pm

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Who buys a car literally without opening the door?

I feel bad for the but jaysis thats silly. Did they just look at the outside and hand over the cash?

It doesn't mention that they got in the car or not, it just says they tried the key. So they didn't get into the car at all?

The Backwards Man · 24-08-2015 2:31pm

I remember when dealing was the national pastime, everyone could do it. Looks like Buying and Selling will have to be taught in the schools the way things are going.

dbit · 24-08-2015 2:43pm

Cops should be able to yield all infos from Done deal , IP addresses , mobile numbers , 3g or 4g carriers , if the guy is using burner phones then no joy , but if hes a dope then he may have left a wee trail behind him.

I remember back a while selling a BMW 325i and the Hoard of ****bags asking if they could come to my house ( Key cloners paradise = done deal beware)

colm_mcm · 24-08-2015 2:46pm

You can be sure they got a prepay phone and used the Internet on that with a disposable sim,
Anyone with the balls to show a car to someone where the key didn't fit isn't your casual amateur.

duffman3833 · 24-08-2015 2:46pm

dbit wrote: »

Cops should be able to yield all infos from Done deal , IP addresses , mobile numbers , 3g or 4g carriers , if the guy is using burner phones then no joy , but if hes a dope then he may have left a wee trail behind him.

I remember back a while selling a BMW 325i and the Hoard of ****bags asking if they could come to my house ( Key cloners paradise = done deal beware)

i don't think the guards will do anything about it tbh

allthedoyles · 24-08-2015 2:52pm

They may have started the car and brought it for a spin , and everything going fine .
Then when its time to agree the deal and hand over the money , the seller may have given a key that does not work .

So the guy disappears with the money . - I'm wondering did he drive off in the car he was selling ?

Toyotafanboi · 24-08-2015 2:54pm

It has to be a random car in a car park. If the seller just locked the car and ran away with the cash, they would eventually return for their car so surely all you would have to do is wait?

frozenfrozen · 24-08-2015 3:06pm

why did he have a hivis vest on?

dbit · 24-08-2015 3:11pm

frozenfrozen wrote: »

why did he have a hivis vest on?

The illusion of seeming official in some regard ? Prolly a Dennis O Brien vest.

dbit · 24-08-2015 3:14pm

duffman3833 wrote: »

i don't think the guards will do anything about it tbh

Yes i agree in similar issue now with them road rager stopped his car and spat in my face , what are the cops doing , fook all . I dont think he was Irish so no interest in his bodily fluids ( Water).

bmstuff · 24-08-2015 3:16pm

frozenfrozen wrote: »

why did he have a hivis vest on?

Blur his upper body with potential cctv systems at night time almost
Only guessing here...

Atlantic Dawn · 24-08-2015 3:17pm

dbit wrote: »

Cops should be able to yield all infos from Done deal , IP addresses , mobile numbers , 3g or 4g carriers , if the guy is using burner phones then no joy , but if hes a dope then he may have left a wee trail behind him.

I remember back a while selling a BMW 325i and the Hoard of ****bags asking if they could come to my house ( Key cloners paradise = done deal beware)

Will be their word against his, they gave him the money after all. It's like a case of someone saying they are a wallet inspector and you handing over your wallet for them to check.

Special Circumstances · 24-08-2015 3:29pm

dbit wrote: »

The illusion of seeming official in some regard ? Prolly a Dennis O Brien vest.

I agree with the first bit. A bit lost by the second bit tbh.

millington · 24-08-2015 3:29pm

Doesn't seem like a scam to be wary of, more so just reminds you not to be an imbecile and actually start and drive the car before buying it

dbit · 24-08-2015 3:42pm

Special Circumstances wrote: »

I agree with the first bit. A bit lost by the second bit tbh.

Aright called me on it so ill answer , Conmen ? ( not IW employess directly but more by association ?)

dbit · 24-08-2015 3:43pm

bmstuff wrote: »

Blur his upper body with potential cctv systems at night time almost
Only guessing here...

Seems more likely than my DOB beating suggestion.

dbit · 24-08-2015 3:45pm

Still the latest Fob hacking devices impose massive risks when meeting people to sell cars . Never sell from your drive way as they will return and be gone in 60 secs ( Literally)

cml387 · 24-08-2015 3:47pm

Benny is a rather unfortunate name, bearing in mind he was the slow witted one in Crossroads.

OK it was a long time ago.

Del2005 · 24-08-2015 4:06pm

dbit wrote: »

Cops should be able to yield all infos from Done deal , IP addresses , mobile numbers , 3g or 4g carriers , if the guy is using burner phones then no joy , but if hes a dope then he may have left a wee trail behind him.

Cops won't do anything, they handed him the money. Opposite happened someone I know, gave keys for test drive and car disappeared, cops or insurance didn't care as the keys where handed over without coercion. Aren't are laws great, if you've got enough scumbag in you you can steal without breaking the any laws.

dbit · 24-08-2015 4:08pm

I suspect everyone of everything all the time its the only way lolz.

bmstuff · 24-08-2015 4:22pm

Personally for this kind of transaction i always advise to meet across the Garda station.
Never ever at your house. As for the payment. Bank draft. As for time, well, during daytime of course.
Just common sense really.
And saying that again but transfer of ownership of a car should be done at garda station or revenue office really. Car could be stolen or else. Would avoid a lot of crimes being committed and would save Garda a lot of hassle and facebook posts.

Special Circumstances · 24-08-2015 4:25pm

bmstuff wrote: »

And saying that again but transfer of ownership of a car should be done at garda station or revenue office really. Car could be stolen or else. Would avoid a lot of crimes being committed and would save Garda a lot of hassle and facebook posts.

They could shift a lot of the hassle of taxing and displaying discs to electronic transactions and ANPR, and give the tax office staff new responsibilities* of witness/processing change of ownerships etc.

*uh oh $$$$$$

dbit · 24-08-2015 4:31pm

OR even barcoding so that we can verify with Apps on smart phones ?

duffman3833 · 24-08-2015 4:31pm

the worst thing is the log book. takes ages to process these

bmstuff · 24-08-2015 4:31pm

In France you have to produce a certificate printed by the hotel of police
It is automatically produced by a machine after you enter reg and date of first registration.
If a car is stolen or ownership change has been locked by a court order/bank etc, then the cert will show it. Names escapes me but you got the idea.
Has to be included in car transaction over there.

bmstuff · 24-08-2015 4:33pm

duffman3833 wrote: »

the worst thing is the log book. takes ages to process these

Na did 2 cars ownership change recently, took 4 business days to get new ones. Both done with 2 months interval. Was quiet impressed.

duffman3833 · 24-08-2015 4:36pm

bmstuff wrote: »

Na did 2 cars ownership change recently, took 4 business days to get new ones. Both done with 2 months interval. Was quiet impressed.

your lucky, when i got my car, through a dealer didn't get book for nearly a month

the_syco · 24-08-2015 4:41pm

duffman3833 wrote: »

The seller gave the girl a key but said before letting her drive it away, he needed to show his mother the money because "they were almost scammed last week by someone using forged notes".

Ehh...... what?

bmstuff wrote: »

As for the payment. Bank draft.

How easy are they to fake, and how long do they take to clear? And how long afterwards would you be told if it was bogus?

BeatBoxing Blowfish · 24-08-2015 4:43pm

Now I'm no mechanic or anything but did they not test drive the car?
Golden rule, don't hand over the cash unless the keys work and you have the book (or the book is signed)

bmstuff · 24-08-2015 4:46pm

the_syco wrote: »

Ehh...... what?

How easy are they to fake, and how long do they take to clear? And how long afterwards would you be told if it was bogus?

Bank draft emitted by your bank at your bank directly is what i meant.

bmstuff · 24-08-2015 4:48pm

duffman3833 wrote: »

your lucky, when i got my car, through a dealer didn't get book for nearly a month

Most likely dealers fault. Proper dealers actually do it electronically online. Even faster to process.

Preset No.3 · 24-08-2015 5:23pm

dbit wrote: »

The illusion of seeming official in some regard ? Prolly a Dennis O Brien vest.

Is it possible to have a discussion about anything anymore without bringing Denis O'Brien into it?

BeatBoxing Blowfish · 24-08-2015 5:29pm

Preset No.3 wrote: »

Is it possible to have a discussion about anything anymore without bringing Denis O'Brien into it?

I usually sell cars at the local topaz, when people respond to my ads in the newstalk classified section

ironclaw · 24-08-2015 8:12pm

I don't understand the ending. They are outside a house, with a car they can't open, and they just leave? Who owned the car? Or was it just a random car that the scammer appears to be selling, quietly slipping out the side passage of an unsuspecting owners house with the cash?

daveville30 · 24-08-2015 8:33pm

this is happening a lot same fellas doing it.type ashbourne car scam into google.

Supergurrier · 24-08-2015 8:44pm

Only accept/recieve large cash payment near an open bank. Spend two minutes having teller check notes then lodge.

Hand over keys sign logbook aaaand done.

Dia1988 · 24-08-2015 8:58pm

This is an on going scam in Ashbourne

The Donedeal ads regularly appear with low priced cars but the car registration is always concealed.

It has been on Joe Duffy liveline on Radio 1 a month ago. Search for the podcasts online.

He claims he needs to first check the money as it had buyers give him fake money then he insists that he checks the money in his house and you go with him, only that he grabs the miney and disappears.

Then the people of the house claim they saw or know nothing

The Gardai won't do much as money was handed iver for a good, even though the car is probably a wreck fit for the scrapyard.

I don't understand why the Gardai can't just do a sting operation!
Or atleast Revenue as this guy is definitely a scamming scumbag!

It's believed that they are a well known family for all the wrong reasons outside Ashbourne by the surname of Joyce

H3llR4iser · 25-08-2015 3:11pm

dbit wrote: »

The illusion of seeming official in some regard ? Prolly a Dennis O Brien vest.

You are most likely correct, if this guy is a professional act he will know this little bit of social engineering. Visual cues that are normally associated with officiality, authority or profession subconsciously create a sense of safety in people, while also putting them into a more compliant mental state.

It's one of the points driven home in safety/prevention training, such as that for fire wardens. Walk in a room full of people wearing a pair of jeans and a shirt, say "everyone please, calmly make your way out using the fire exit!" and everyone will ignore you, keep chatting and so on. Put a vest on, do the same and you get everyone's undivided attention, and you could almost literally make them jump through fire (not a good idea, btw

).

bmstuff wrote: »

Personally for this kind of transaction i always advise to meet across the Garda station.
Never ever at your house. As for the payment. Bank draft. As for time, well, during daytime of course.

This is a big one; I often see "car selling advice" that recommends meeting potential buyers at home - do not do it.

Cars are by no means rocket science, yet they are relatively complex machinery and most people can't make heads or tails of them. They turn the key and go.

Things can - and do - go wrong, and people also do not understand that. Sell a car in perfect condition, new owner drives it daily on a really bad road at speed, and a month later a ball joint gives up; You don't want them banging on your door because, in their mind, you sold them a "faulty" car. I heard plenty of these horror stories, so public place is the way to go.

bmstuff wrote: »

Just common sense really.
And saying that again but transfer of ownership of a car should be done at garda station or revenue office really. Car could be stolen or else. Would avoid a lot of crimes being committed and would save Garda a lot of hassle and facebook posts.

Watch out what you wish for - in theory, it's a good idea. In practice, it can become even less efficient and/or slower than the post system - being restricted to conduct the transactions at specific, limiting times and so on.

Also, if things go pear shaped in the long run, there's the potential to make it another money pit - "pay XX Euro for change of ownership". In Italy, to give an extreme case, up until a few years ago you needed no less than a sworn Notary to sign the change of ownership. Price of the operation? No less than 500 Euro...

Kenny Logins · 25-08-2015 4:00pm

frozenfrozen wrote: »

why did he have a hivis vest on?

You do anything with a hi-vis on, nobody will question you.

lway · 25-08-2015 4:16pm

ironclaw wrote: »

I don't understand the ending. They are outside a house, with a car they can't open, and they just leave? Who owned the car? Or was it just a random car that the scammer appears to be selling, quietly slipping out the side passage of an unsuspecting owners house with the cash?

From what I can make of it, the old lady in the house owned the car but wasn't selling it.

Scammer takes pic of random old lady's car in driveway and advertises it for sale, meets people outside old lady's house, hands them fake key and asks for cash and says he's going inside to check if it's counterfit, he then heads down side of house, presumably over the back fence and disappears with the cash.

Car keys don't work, buyers knock on door and old lady says she knows nothing about the car being sold.

blade1 · 25-08-2015 7:05pm

ironclaw wrote: »

I don't understand the ending. They are outside a house, with a car they can't open, and they just leave? Who owned the car? Or was it just a random car that the scammer appears to be selling, quietly slipping out the side passage of an unsuspecting owners house with the cash?

A different situation but a guy near me spotted his own trailer for sale on Donedeal.
The picture on the ad was even of his own backyard.

He reckoned an attempt to steal it would have been made when someone rang up the thief looking to buy it.
He obviously got the ad taken down.

projectgtr · 25-08-2015 8:37pm

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

It has to be a random car in a car park. If the seller just locked the car and ran away with the cash, they would eventually return for their car so surely all you would have to do is wait?

It was at the "sellers" house, a well known house

frozenfrozen wrote: »

why did he have a hivis vest on?

Certain Irish minority groups have a penchant for wearing high vis vests

Del2005 wrote: »

Cops won't do anything, they handed him the money. Opposite happened someone I know, gave keys for test drive and car disappeared, cops or insurance didn't care as the keys where handed over without coercion. Aren't are laws great, if you've got enough scumbag in you you can steal without breaking the any laws.

Cops wont do anything for fear of the buyer getting harmed, most wont give evidence when they hear whats involved, the local police know exactly who these people are and where they live hell i can point it out to you myself and im not even living in the county

daveville30 wrote: »

this is happening a lot same fellas doing it.type ashbourne car scam into google.

It sure is, i really thought the Gardai would have done something about it at this stage, but local stations are ridiculously under manned and these guys know that.

dr.fuzzenstein · 26-08-2015 8:39am

BeatBoxing Blowfish wrote: »

I usually sell cars at the local topaz, when people respond to my ads in the newstalk classified section

What network are you on? It's gotta be O2.

dr.fuzzenstein · 26-08-2015 8:52am

projectgtr wrote: »

It was at the "sellers" house, a well known house

Certain Irish minority groups have a penchant for wearing high vis vests

Cops wont do anything for fear of the buyer getting harmed, most wont give evidence when they hear whats involved, the local police know exactly who these people are and where they live hell i can point it out to you myself and im not even living in the county

It sure is, i really thought the Gardai would have done something about it at this stage, but local stations are ridiculously under manned and these guys know that.

Cops will certainly never do anything where there is a chance of them getting harmed. We must have the only police force that is scared of the criminals.
I was driving from Limerick back to Ennis on the motorway one evening when I saw 2 figures dressed in black clothes on an overpass aiming some kind of device down the motorway at oncoming cars. The device had a red LED on it. Looked vaguely like a gun, but could have been anything.
In front of me was a Garda car, so after the bridge I flashed them down, we stopped on the hard should and I walked up to the window to tell them what I've seen.
Inside were 2 female Gardai, they were quite young. They looked terrified of me, nevermind suspicious persons on the bridge. If a violent criminal came after me, I would have to look after myself, because I wouldn't have a lot of faith in the Gardai's ability to protect me from them.

BeatBoxing Blowfish · 26-08-2015 9:02am

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

What network are you on? It's gotta be O2.

Of course, I find it gets great reception when reading the Irish Independent online

Tea 1000 · 26-08-2015 11:03am

As a buyer though, everyone on here recommends that you meet the person at their house. I've bought cars before at people's house, gives added peace of mind that they're not a scam artist.
I know with any ED BMW petrol, you absolutely must meet them at their house in the morning before they've started the car, otherwise you're asking for trouble.

A guy in Cork lost €1,700 to a very sneaky car scam on Done Deal

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