competition query

SaveOurLyric · 02-04-2015 8:51pm

limos wrote: »

So how can the players be punished for such a cock up

Players arent being 'punished', but are paying the price for having a low quality competitions committee and/or employees. Hey, who said life was fair ?
Frustrating maybe, I understand, but the rules of golf are not going to bend for people running competitions poorly or not knowing the rules of the game.

the lawman · 02-04-2015 9:02pm

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Players arent being 'punished', but are paying the price for having a low quality competitions committee and/or employees. Hey, who said life was fair ?
Frustrating maybe, I understand, but the rules of golf are not going to bend for people running competitions poorly or not knowing the rules of the game.

Pretty much nail on the head for me. I said it earlier that it seems an error was made by someone and unfortunately we all have to suffer that. Chin up and we get on with it.

I was in a bunker on Saturday but it was my other 89 shots that ruined my score!!

First Up · 02-04-2015 9:04pm

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Players arent being 'punished', but are paying the price for having a low quality competitions committee and/or employees. Hey, who said life was fair ?
Frustrating maybe, I understand, but the rules of golf are not going to bend for people running competitions poorly or not knowing the rules of the game.

But as an internal, non qualifying competition can the club not just decide for itself?

SaveOurLyric · 02-04-2015 9:14pm

First Up wrote: »

But as an internal, non qualifying competition can the club not just decide for itself?

1) 'Non-qualifying' is a term relating to the regulation of Congu handicaps and a separate issue to he rules of golf and the running of competions. i.e. in this case that handicaps would neither be increased or decreased as a consequence of the score returned.

2) Separate from the regulation of handicaps, the club can of course make any decision it wishes. Even choosing to play within or without the rules of golf. But why, faced with the dilemma, would they choose not to go with the recommendation of the authority they charge with advising on the rules of golf and the running of amateur competitions?

limos · 03-04-2015 1:31pm

The March Medal was played over Sat and Sun last. The conditions of the course were agreed between the Captain and the Greenkeeper on theÂ FridayÂ and the decision was that there would be placing everywhere and the bunkers would be in play.

Unfortunately, prompted by a request from a member playing on the Sun, a decision was taken to declare the bunkers out of play for theÂ Sunday. This decision was not taken by an official authorised to make such a decision and was therefore not valid.

The Committee consulted with the rules officials in the GUI and has been directed to disqualify any player that played on Sun and dropped out of a bunker without taking a penalty stroke.

All scores from the March Medal will still be eligible to count in the Golfer of the Year Competition. The Committee has made a decision to reduce the number of scores to be included in the 2015 Golfer of the Year Competition to seven â€“ down from eight.Â

The Committee also decided that any player disadvantaged by being disqualified from the competition should have their competition entry fee refunded. It should be noted that Thomas Conaty excluded himself from all decisions made by the committee relating to this situation as he would be conflicted, being in a position of having won one of the prizes.

--Â

Thanks,Â

Rathcore Commitee

This is the final outcome

kiers47 · 03-04-2015 1:44pm

What would happen in the case a player who played on Sunday was not in a Bunker?

Twenty10 · 03-04-2015 2:09pm

kiers47 wrote: »

What would happen in the case a player who played on Sunday was not in a Bunker?

They would be fine only players that dropped out of a bunker without taking a penalty would be DQ'd

kiers47 · 03-04-2015 2:22pm

Twenty10 wrote: »

They would be fine only players that dropped out of a bunker without taking a penalty would be DQ'd

I understand that from the original statement but does the club have to contact every player who would have played and ask them if they were in a bunker and get the marker to confirm it?

All sounds like a serious headache for the club.

the lawman · 03-04-2015 5:26pm

kiers47 wrote: »

I understand that from the original statement but does the club have to contact every player who would have played and ask them if they were in a bunker and get the marker to confirm it?

All sounds like a serious headache for the club.

Yup. As far as I know they contacted all the prize winners and asked them if they were in a bunker or not. I believe one chap who would have been second was in a bunker on 18th.

An unfortunate mistake and one that will not be made again I'm sure!

slave1 · 03-04-2015 5:41pm

Well done on the club for making the right decision after a wrong decision regarding the bunkers was made, time to move on now

Uncle Ben · 03-04-2015 5:43pm

slave1 wrote: »

Well done on the club for making the right decision after a wrong decision regarding the bunkers was made, time to move on now

So the ruling is actually no drops from bunkers?

The real Grizzly Adams · 03-04-2015 5:51pm

slave1 wrote: »

Well done on the club for making the right decision after a wrong decision regarding the bunkers was made, time to move on now

Well said, as someone who got a phone call because I "would" have been runner up in my category but i was in a 2 bunkers on Sunday & wrongly took a free drop out of each, I SHOULD be annoyed BUT I'm happy a decision has been made & it wasn't made "willy nilly", the Committee sought direction & clarification from the GUI so the Committee have done things "bye the book" so it's time for people to move on & accept it before someone says something they regret, we all have to play together!

The real Grizzly Adams · 03-04-2015 5:59pm

Uncle Ben wrote: »

So the ruling is actually no drops from bunkers?

What we should of done if we found ourselves in a bunker on Sunday was play it if it was playable & if you couldn't play it as it was under water you should have dropped IN the bunker no nearer the hole

limos · 03-04-2015 7:28pm

The point is people were told that bunkers were GUR and there was a sign on the desk saying the same so people didn't know any different sure why would they. In fairness to the guy in the pro shop he got a call from a committee member who was first out that influenced the decision

The real Grizzly Adams · 03-04-2015 7:34pm

limos wrote: »

The point is people were told that bunkers were GUR and there was a sign on the desk saying the same so people didn't know any different sure why would they. In fairness to the guy in the pro shop he got a call from a committee member who was first out that influenced the decision

Sign on desk said, "placing everywhere", NO mention of bunkers on sign. Committee member with the best of intentions removed the "bunkers in play" sign from beside the 1st Tee without realizing the ramifications of this action. Have to feel sorry for him, we all make mistakes. Who hasn't!?

The real Grizzly Adams · 03-04-2015 7:38pm

Re the earlier comments re the so called sogginess of the course. I have played plenty of courses in Meath, Kildare & Dublin that have temp' greens & winter mats for Tee boxes. Rathcore's greens & tee boxes are in play 24/7 365 days a year!

limos · 03-04-2015 7:45pm

I can assure you there was a sign on the sign in book stating bunkers are GUR myself and my playing partners asked the guy behind the desk and he confirmed the same. It's not any players fault that played Sunday that they dropped out of bunkers. It's a terrible decision that was made and the wrong one.

The real Grizzly Adams · 03-04-2015 7:53pm

limos wrote: »

I can assure you there was a sign on the sign in book stating bunkers are GUR myself and my playing partners asked the guy behind the desk and he confirmed the same. It's not any players fault that played Sunday that they dropped out of bunkers. It's a terrible decision that was made and the wrong one.

We'll agree to disagree but there couldn't have been re the bunkers in the book as they were in play on Saturday (as we well know!) & the bunkers were only "wrongly" ruled GUR when a committee member in error rang it in from the course. Depends also what time you teed off at, it wasn't written in 1st thing Sunday morning but it may have been added in later that morning!?

The real Grizzly Adams · 03-04-2015 7:59pm

limos wrote: »

I can assure you there was a sign on the sign in book stating bunkers are GUR myself and my playing partners asked the guy behind the desk and he confirmed the same. It's not any players fault that played Sunday that they dropped out of bunkers. It's a terrible decision that was made and the wrong one.

Bit of an "in" joke, are you virtually certain on that!

limos · 03-04-2015 8:02pm

we were out within the first hour and the sign was on the right hand side of the sign in book, in orange high lighter saying bunkers GUR. therefore its not the players fault and competition should have been void. it was actually the captain of the club that won it I think he should have made the decision to cancel the competition I certainly would have instead of having over half the members up in arms over it.

The real Grizzly Adams · 03-04-2015 8:10pm

limos wrote: »

we were out within the first hour and the sign was on the right hand side of the sign in book, in orange high lighter saying bunkers GUR. therefore its not the players fault and competition should have been void. it was actually the captain of the club that won it I think he should have made the decision to cancel the competition I certainly would have instead of having over half the members up in arms over it.

If the Comp' was cancelled that would have pissed off everyone that was out on Saturday!. The Captain because he won it had to take "a step back" & not get involved in the decision. I'm not saying you have to like or agree with the decision but it was the correct decision as it was sanctioned by the GUI so I think we should all move on

limos · 03-04-2015 8:44pm

theres a lot of people pissed off with decisions that have been made over the last 12 months from the current committee, we even had a good well respected member leave in the last couple of weeks because of it, I just think a situation like this doesn't help matters,

Uncle Ben · 03-04-2015 9:14pm

Far too many rules in golf.

First Up · 03-04-2015 9:17pm

limos wrote: »

theres a lot of people pissed off with decisions that have been made over the last 12 months from the current committee, we even had a good well respected member leave in the last couple of weeks because of it, I just think a situation like this doesn't help matters,

I think you lads would be better off sorting this out in private.

topgolfer101 · 03-04-2015 9:31pm

The real Grizzly Adams wrote: »

If the Comp' was cancelled that would have pissed off everyone that was out on Saturday!. The Captain because he won it had to take "a step back" & not get involved in the decision. I'm not saying you have to like or agree with the decision but it was the correct decision as it was sanctioned by the GUI so I think we should all move on

I am a member of Rathcore golf club, members would not have been annoyed if the comp was called off on Saturday, as the half the field on Sunday had an unfair advantage if the competition went through, however these players were disqualified for following the rules stated on the sign in sheet and that is unfair also, competition should be voided no question about it committee made the wrong decision.

SaveOurLyric · 03-04-2015 9:59pm

topgolfer101 wrote: »

competition should be voided no question about it committee made the wrong decision.

There is indeed no question about it. The committee made the right decision.
The rules are clear. The GUI the authority delegated to confirm their correct implementation.

As in many many other threads here in the past, not knowing the rules of the game seems to get a lot of people in a tizzy. If you want to play the game, know the rules. And accept them.

topgolfer101 · 03-04-2015 10:13pm

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

There is indeed no question about it. The committee made the right decision.
The rules are clear. The GUI the authority delegated to confirm their correct implementation.

As in many many other threads here in the past, not knowing the rules of the game seems to get a lot of people in a tizzy. If you want to play the game, know the rules. And accept them.

Players on Saturday went out knowing bunkers were in play 100%, players on Sunday were told by the man in the pro shop and it clearly stated on the sign in sheet in highlighted orange markers that bunkers were GUR. Do Sunday's players deserve to be disqualified for playing the rules that were stated or is it a mistake and the competition should be forgotten about?

The real Grizzly Adams · 03-04-2015 10:15pm

limos wrote: »

theres a lot of people pissed off with decisions that have been made over the last 12 months from the current committee, we even had a good well respected member leave in the last couple of weeks because of it, I just think a situation like this doesn't help matters,

No one wants/likes to see anyone leave so before anyone says something they may regret & can't retract I think we should all leave it there & if we as members have more to say on the matter we should do it in house!

SaveOurLyric · 03-04-2015 10:44pm

topgolfer101 wrote: »

Do Sunday's players deserve to be disqualified for playing the rules that were stated

Yes. Bad luck alright. But those informing them of the rules didnt have the authority to do so. So they didnt play according to the competition rules, therefore disqualified.

topgolfer101 wrote: »

is it a mistake and the competition should be forgotten about?

It is a mistake to have misinformed the Sunday golfers on the rules. But even though they were understandably misled, why forget the competition? Sheiße happens. Not being at fault doesnt mean you dont have to pay a price sometimes.

dan_ep82 · 04-04-2015 4:10am

The real Grizzly Adams wrote: »

Re the earlier comments re the so called sogginess of the course. I have played plenty of courses in Meath, Kildare & Dublin that have temp' greens & winter mats for Tee boxes. Rathcore's greens & tee boxes are in play 24/7 365 days a year!

I've played Rathcore a good few times (50+ over the course of a year) and was a member for a while. The course is still one of my favourites.It does suffer a bit in the wet and there is noticeable sogginess in places but I think its alot to do with the area its in.

The real Grizzly Adams · 04-04-2015 12:20pm

dan_ep82 wrote: »

I've played Rathcore a good few times (50+ over the course of a year) and was a member for a while. The course is still one of my favourites.It does suffer a bit in the wet and there is noticeable sogginess in places but I think its alot to do with the area its in.

I'm not saying there is no sogginess. Its not a flat course & because it is hilly & undulating there are dips so there can be the very odd puddle after days & nights of incessant rain like a lot of other courses. A couple of years ago I was due to play a well known 36 hole in Kells one morn with a member of that course but the course was closed the next morn due to a night of heavy rain on top of a week of "normal" rain!. We drove on to Trim to another well known course with a hotel & we had to play one of the 9's twice as the other 9 had lakes on it that weren't there a day previous! & guess what Rathcore was open & playable. I remember watching Kileen Castle on the TV a few years back & there was a torrential downpour on top of acweeks normal rain & play was suspended!. Another thing to remember is that we've had two good summers in a row & touch wood we'll have another good one this year unlike that run of summers that were a total washout 3+ years back. No matter how good any courses (apart from a handful of major courses that have spent millions on the latest water extraction & drying equipment) drainage is if the water table gets too high that course will eventually reach saturation point. Check out "compaction"

Norfolk Enchants_ · 04-04-2015 1:06pm

This is a BS decision by Rathcore IMO, it seems to me they are hiding behind the GUI decision when in reality it has very little to do with the GUI as the comp was non-counting from the get go with placing everywhere, so essentially it's an internal club competition and the final decision lies with the club committee.
It's also clear to me the Rathcore committee had 3 options, namely the comp stands and all scores stand (not ideal but not the worst option IMO), another option is the comp is cancelled and played at a latter date or if that's not possible then simply call the comp cancelled and all scores are null and void and NO GOTY points awarded.
The final and worst option IMO is the wishy-washy one taken by the Committee, It's unfortunate that the Captain actually had the winning score but regardless who had the best score, the only fair option IMO is to cancel the comp and reschudule for a later date.

The real Grizzly Adams · 04-04-2015 1:54pm

Norfolk Enchants_ wrote: »

This is a BS decision by Rathcore IMO, it seems to me they are hiding behind the GUI decision when in reality it has very little to do with the GUI as the comp was non-counting from the get go with placing everywhere, so essentially it's an internal club competition and the final decision lies with the club committee.
It's also clear to me the Rathcore committee had 3 options, namely the comp stands and all scores stand (not ideal but not the worst option IMO), another option is the comp is cancelled and played at a latter date or if that's not possible then simply call the comp cancelled and all scores are null and void and NO GOTY points awarded.
The final and worst option IMO is the wishy-washy one taken by the Committee, It's unfortunate that the Captain actually had the winning score but regardless who had the best score, the only fair option IMO is to cancel the comp and reschudule for a later date.

They (The Committee) were damned if they did & damned if they didn't. All least the decision we have now is final. If they had taken some of your suggestions those decisions would have been challenged & brought to the attention of The GUI & probably overturned!

limos · 04-04-2015 2:25pm

GUI can't over turn the decision it's up to the committee to decide, the majority of players in rathcore know if the results were different the decision would have been different it's pure bulls**t what went on, its made a mockery of the committee and the club as a whole.

The real Grizzly Adams · 04-04-2015 2:36pm

limos wrote: »

GUI can't over turn the decision it's up to the committee to decide, the majority of players in rathcore know if the results were different the decision would have been different it's pure bulls**t what went on, its made a mockery of the committee and the club as a whole.

If you're so concerned about the decision why don't you put your money where your mouth is/put up or shut up & get involved & join the Committee at the first opportunity & then you can influence future decisions

Keano · 04-04-2015 2:43pm

I think we've reached the end of the road.

competition query

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