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WASTE OF MONEY ON PORTLAOISE!!!

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Comments

  • #102
    hk
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭hk


    cruasder777 wrote: »
    Not really, alot of the civil support role is simply parish pump politics, which is why there are still Victorian barracks, they support local communities financially.

    If you done away with the civil support role, there would be mass redundences, barracks would close and local business leaders would do their nut.

    Example, there is no need for a squad of soldiers to protect a CIT van, (the vehicle they use to protect it is totally unfit for purpose to start with).

    Nowadays CIT cash containers have tracking devices, smart water etc. Only a complete moron would try to rob one. If someone robs one, the money self destructs and the robber gets sprayed with smart water, which has a unique code, the box also has a tracking device.

    So why the hell are soldiers still providing an escort ? Like it was still the 1970s.

    Answer..local parish pump politics. The problem is this civilian support role and parish pump politics and the triple lock is stopping the army from being an army who's first role is as a fighting force.


    Most of the devices you mention deal with the detection of a crime after it has occurred, they do not prevent robberies, especially by armed criminals where there is a very serious threat to life during the course of these robberies. Armed protection for these CIT's whether by the army or GS do reduce the number of potential armed robberies and do act as a deterrent.

    The reason that in this day and age, soldiers are still providing escorts, is that in 2011 according to the CSO, there were 38 instances of complete morons doing exactly what you say doesn't happen because of the devices now placed in the boxes.


  • #103
    cruasder777
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭cruasder777


    hk wrote: »
    Most of the devices you mention deal with the detection of a crime after it has occurred, they do not prevent robberies, especially by armed criminals where there is a very serious threat to life during the course of these robberies. Armed protection for these CIT's whether by the army or GS do reduce the number of potential armed robberies and do act as a deterrent.

    The reason that in this day and age, soldiers are still providing escorts, is that in 2011 according to the CSO, there were 38 instances of complete morons doing exactly what you say doesn't happen because of the devices now placed in the boxes.


    Those devices obviously stop cash in transit robberies, who in their right mind would target a cash box with a tracker device, where the money self destructs if the box is opened and they robbers get sprayed with smart water ?

    Those they do are going to be total idiots who get quickly caught, security vans have become so hard to rob serious gangsters have moved into drugs importation, as it carries far less risk.



    http://www.smartwater.com/Media-Centre/Success-Stories-2/January-2009/G4S-cash-in-transit-attacks-down-24-.aspx


    Tell me why in NI soldiers dont protect CIT vans.


  • #104
    Rawhead
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭Rawhead


    The other problem having the military proving CIT escorts and Portlaoise cover is that it gives across a message that this is such a lawless and dangerous country that the civil powers have lost control.
    Lets be realistic here and call a spade a spade, if the army had better things to be doing then I'm sure they would. This is not a dig at anyone, it's the reality of being a military in a neutral country.
    The only places you see soldiers escorting CIT and guarding prisons is in the likes of Bogota and Mexico, no developed western nation does this.


  • #105
    Morpheus
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Morpheus


    What country do you live in Rawhead?

    Ireland is not a neutral country and will remain so until there is a referendum.
    f the army had better things to be doing then I'm sure they would
    you display an astounding lack of knowledge about the way the army works here, the army do exactly as they are asked to.

    If the E Bde's experience of trying to get the 106 Bn spun up for deployment to the Leb is anything to go by, the defence forces were under SEVERE pressure to try to provide their every training need to get the soldiers ready, they managed it but it drained every available drop of free resources that could be found.

    The reality is that the DOD is the most efficient, cost effective and reliable department in govt, it may not be perfect but its as close to running like a well oiled machine as you will find in ireland. There are a lot of tasks they would probably prefer not to do which would free up training resources, but at the end of the day, every task given to them, every cutback that they face, all opposition that springs up, they quietly and resolutely take it in their stride.

    How many developed western nations have a history where hardline terrorist elements with very powerful weapons took money from banks, post offices etc and thought nothing about shooting police or soldiers? now how many of those country have a history of an armed police force and an armed prison officer force? We dont, so we have to improvise. It may not be right, but thats the way of the world in Ireland.


  • #106
    Poccington
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Poccington


    Rawhead wrote: »
    The other problem having the military proving CIT escorts and Portlaoise cover is that it gives across a message that this is such a lawless and dangerous country that the civil powers have lost control.
    Lets be realistic here and call a spade a spade, if the army had better things to be doing then I'm sure they would. This is not a dig at anyone, it's the reality of being a military in a neutral country.
    The only places you see soldiers escorting CIT and guarding prisons is in the likes of Bogota and Mexico, no developed western nation does this.

    Personally speaking, my Unit and indeed the rest of the Brigade are upto their tits since the start of the year and that's without taking into account CIT's. Anyone currently serving in 2 Eastern Bde will know just how busy the Bde has been so far this year.

    People need to get this concept of the DF deciding what tasks they'll do, out of their head. The DF doesn't pick and choose what tasks they'll carry out. The Government at the time will task the DoD, who in turn will direct the DF to carry out the tasks. Being an organisation filled with soldiers, in turn we will have to carry out those tasks regardless of how much we dislike them because that's what soldiers do.

    I'm no major fan of the calibre of Officer in the DF but seriously, the General Staff isn't meeting and saying "Do you know what chaps? I think we shall send the chaps out shovelling snow!"

    We do what we're told to do, not what we want to do.


  • #107
    Poccington
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Poccington


    As for CIT's, the DF being used is down to cheap labour and the fact that we have a limited number of armed members of the AGS in this country.

    Same goes for Portlaoise, no armed Prison Service and not enough AGS lads to plug the gap.


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