Rats fleeing a sinking ship

Amhran Nua · 31-03-2010 8:31pm

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

Nobody is being forced against their will, it's a difficult choice, but it's a choice none the less.

Duress doesn't have to mean clapped in irons and dragged out to Shannon at gunpoint.

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

What would you advise the people who are emigrating to do instead? People, including myself, are simply sick and tired looking for work in this country so we are trying elsewhere. We may get work elsewhere or we may not, but at least we are going to try.

If you aren't political, get political. Don't bother rolling the eyes, its as much a fact as the sky being up, and I couldn't really give a damn about the opinion of anyone that doesn't want to accept that for whatever reason. The heart of all of our problems lies with the politicians and political system, and thats where the change has to happen.

If you take a look at the sig there you'll find a nice little group of people who are actively working at every level from community to national to enact change before the Publican Party drive us off the cliff entirely in a drunken haze. Start your own group, email a TD, whatever. Get involved and let people know that its not okay to sit and hope it all gets better by itself, it won't. They have no difficulty whatsoever signing away the futures of your children and mine in exchange for an easy life now. Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

Thats what I advise you do.

ScumLord · 31-03-2010 8:33pm

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

Your accusations and false claims boil my blood. I am not a rat, nor is it my fault that this country is in the mess it is in, nor is this country mine, nor can I do anything about it.

Well if you can't do it no one can and there's no point in trying, there's no point moving to another country either because that's full of people and they can't do anything about their country.

What fields? Where are they? Who paid for them? Are those people who paid for the fields going to let you plant on them for free? I highly doubt it.

The people of the town paid for it, the farmers are working night and day just to break even they're very open to new solutions, the only reason they stay on the farm is because they love it, it's not for profit.

I have the skill set to survive on my own.

Really? You can grow or kill your own food? You know medicine? You have the skills to make your own home from scratch? Maybe you are bear grills but most people cannot survive on their own.

Fair play to ye, but not everybody is in that situation, and not everybody really cares, nor should they. Yet, that's not going to fix the country. That's not going to get me a job.

If people don't care this country will fail. Most people do care.

31-03-2010 8:48pm

narwog81 wrote: »

i think moore mcdowell said on primetime that NAMA would wipe 5-6% of our annual GDP growth for the next 30 years. If thats the case then short of striking oil of the west coast we can forget about ever returning to anything close to the prosperity we enjoyed for the last decade

The equivalent of 5% being knocked of GNP for the next 20 years

43minutes 30 seconds into part two of the right hook tuesday (yesterday 30/03/10) podcast:
http://media.newstalk.ie/podcasts/popup

To illustrate what a 5% reduction in GNP is:
6% is a booming economy - Celtic Tiger type stuff (Celtic Tiger ranged from 6-11% growth)

subtract 5% = 1% growth which is stagnation at best.

20 years where if conditions are right for a Celtic Tiger again the best we could hope for is stagnation.....

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

It's scaremongering. You have linked two jobs and said that this whole scheme increases unemployment and emigration? Any proof on this or is it just speculation? If anything this scheme is going to help people secure a job as it gives them the skills and experience needed to secure a job these days.

No its not scaremongering if you were followiing the threads specifically about the WPP1/2 scheme you would see that there are dozens of examples of it being a scam. One good example is the IBEC website 90% of the jobs are now unpaid. Microsoft are taking on 10 people under this scheme and the job description is that they all need experience.

The scheme will increase unemployment its really very basic economic, if you supply employers with free labour they will increase their consumption of this kind of labour thus displacing paid employment. Pretending or hoping it will help graduates wont make it a good scheme.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 31-03-2010 9:38pm

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Duress doesn't have to mean clapped in irons and dragged out to Shannon at gunpoint.

You didn't say duress, you said forced. They are different words with different meanings. Decide which one you want to use.

If you aren't political, get political.

I vote, that's as far as I go with politics. Why should everyone get involved further?

Don't bother rolling the eyes

Where did I roll my eyes?

its as much a fact as the sky being up, and I couldn't really give a damn about the opinion of anyone that doesn't want to accept that for whatever reason.

What?

The heart of all of our problems lies with the politicians and political system, and thats where the change has to happen.

Everybody that follows politices even a little knows that, but how do you change it?

If you take a look at the sig there you'll find a nice little group of people who are actively working at every level from community to national to enact change before the Publican Party drive us off the cliff entirely in a drunken haze. Start your own group, email a TD, whatever. Get involved and let people know that its not okay to sit and hope it all gets better by itself, it won't. They have no difficulty whatsoever signing away the futures of your children and mine in exchange for an easy life now. Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

Thats what I advise you do.

Not the best advice really, start a group? What has your group done so far? What have ye changed? I'd support any legitimate group that actually does something other than rallies and post blogs. It's not an easy thing to do.

ScumLord wrote: »

Well if you can't do it no one can and there's no point in trying, there's no point moving to another country either because that's full of people and they can't do anything about their country.

Look, scumlord, I will ask you a question I would appretiate an honest answer, are you taking the piss? Every country is the same as Ireland? That's not true. You are making no sense what so ever. There's no point in moving to another country? I just gave you my point, it's to get work, which in some countries is plentiful.

The people of the town paid for it, the farmers are working night and day just to break even they're very open to new solutions, the only reason they stay on the farm is because they love it, it's not for profit.

Ok, this is one case you are talking about? Is this in your community? Who does the food go to, and where?

Really? You can grow or kill your own food? You know medicine? You have the skills to make your own home from scratch? Maybe you are bear grills but most people cannot survive on their own.

Yes really, I have been interested in survival since I was very young, I have 21 years of knowledge behind me. I don't claim to be bear grylls, but he's an extremist any survivalist knows that. The medicine part of survival is tricky, but the point is to avoid hazardous foods and conditions. If you can do that there is less need for medicines.

If people don't care this country will fail. Most people do care.

From what I can see most people don't care. Whining and bítching about it on TV, the internet or in the newspapers does not equate to caring.

Deleted User wrote: »

43minutes 30 seconds into part two of the right hook tuesday (yesterday 30/03/10) podcast:
http://media.newstalk.ie/podcasts/popup

To illustrate what a 5% reduction in GNP is:
6% is a booming economy - Celtic Tiger type stuff (Celtic Tiger ranged from 6-11% growth)

subtract 5% = 1% growth which is stagnation at best.

Just to let you know, 1% is not stagnant, that is growth. No matter what you say, it's not stagnant.

No its not scaremongering if you were followiing the threads specifically about the WPP1/2 scheme you would see that there are dozens of examples of it being a scam.

Dozens... out of how many jobs?

One good example is the IBEC website 90% of the jobs are now unpaid. Microsoft are taking on 10 people under this scheme and the job description is that they all need experience.

What kind of jobs are they offering? Where both companies hiring at the same rate before the scheme? I highly doubt it.

The scheme will increase unemployment its really very basic economic, if you supply employers with free labour they will increase their consumption of this kind of labour thus displacing paid employment. Pretending or hoping it will help graduates wont make it a good scheme.

It's pretty simple really. You still haven't given any proof of any of your claims. You are just speculating. You say this is going to increase unemployment over all? I say it's going to increas employment, why? Because it gives people the proper skillset and experience to persue a paid job at the end of their 6 months intern...

I don't think you would like america too much, after paying your 40K dollars for college, you would then have to do an intern for a company if you really wanted to get the job you want. It's common practice in many countries. But of course, when it happens in Ireland the people think they are being scammed. Obviously there are jobs that are scams, it's simple, stay away from them. Do you know how difficult it is to get an internship in any company before this scheme? Of course you don't...

Resi12 · 31-03-2010 9:43pm

ScumLord wrote: »

I'm beginning to get a bit pissed off with all this talk of immigration. All these people are in effect abandoning they're communities, families and country, they're leaving this state to the corrupt money hungry "fat cats" that they're complaining about so much. Whatever happened to the fighting Irish, no ones prepared to make a stand for this country instead they flee with their tails between their legs.

Is it really the government that is to blame when we do nothing to stand in their way?

We are not the traitor's here, try the government picking the banks over it's own citizens.

Amhran Nua · 31-03-2010 9:48pm

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

You didn't say duress, you said forced. They are different words with different meanings. Decide which one you want to use.

Okay then. Duress:

1. compulsion by use of force or threat; constraint; coercion (often in the phrase under duress)

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

I vote, that's as far as I go with politics. Why should everyone get involved further?

So you're perfectly satisified with the options being offered to you by today's parties?

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

Everybody that follows politices even a little knows that, but how do you change it?

Step by step instructions here. Usually a good first step is to join the party however.

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

Not the best advice really, start a group? What has your group done so far? What have ye changed? I'd support any legitimate group that actually does something other than rallies and post blogs. It's not an easy thing to do.

You don't say. We're had radio and newspaper interviews on the local, national and international level, held discussions with politicians of various stripes, including some fairly high ranking ones, had numerous of our policies lifted wholesale by both main parties, and hopefully they lift the rest soon because none of us are politicians, and as a result of this effort we've joined various committees and groups in our localities to help make the area better for our respective communities.

Its a bit more involved than posting a blog, and a lot more involved than sitting moaning on the intertubes.

sron · 31-03-2010 9:55pm

ScumLord wrote: »

Whatever happened to the fighting Irish

They lived in America.

artanevilla · 31-03-2010 9:57pm

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

If I chose to go to another country to find work, I am considered a traitor? I am abandoning my country, community, family and friends? Fcuk that, I am not sitting on my hole waiting for work to land on my lap, nore am I going to sit around this kip to wait for the government to act on the job crisis and do their fcuking jobs. I'm out of here as soon as I possibly can. I just hope my plans work out.

This is the attitude I don't like.

TheIrishGrover · 31-03-2010 10:03pm

Raggaroo wrote: »

Possibly thay are EMIGRATING to avoid being called immigrants !!!!!!

I'm pretty sure that's going to backfire on them

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 31-03-2010 10:05pm

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Okay then. Duress:

1. compulsion by use of force or threat; constraint; coercion (often in the phrase under duress)

So you're perfectly satisified with the options being offered to you by today's parties?

Step by step instructions here. Usually a good first step is to join the party however.

You don't say. We're had radio and newspaper interviews on the local, national and international level, held discussions with politicians of various stripes, including some fairly high ranking ones, had numerous of our policies lifted wholesale by both main parties, and hopefully they lift the rest soon because none of us are politicians, and as a result of this effort we've joined various committees and groups in our localities to help make the area better for our respective communities.

Its a bit more involved than posting a blog, and a lot more involved than sitting moaning on the intertubes.

Firstly, I don't have a problem with my community, nor any community that I have ever lived in, apart from the recent job crisis. That not a community issue as such, it's a national issue.

Do you have a job?

artanevilla wrote: »

This is the attitude I don't like.

It's an opinion, my opinion, it's not an attitude, however you picked that up.

Amhran Nua · 31-03-2010 10:10pm

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

Firstly, I don't have a problem with my community, nor any community that I have ever lived in, apart from the recent job crisis. That not a community issue as such, it's a national issue.

That doesn't make any sense.

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

Do you have a job?

Self employed for many years now, and working harder than ever at it. You're looking for work, why not apply for the job which needs no qualifications, has a great remuneration package, you can retire really quickly, and has plenty of perks? The interview process is a bit tricky, but other than that its great - become a TD or councillor! There's nothing stopping you, and as an added bonus you can fix the country in the process.

bleg · 31-03-2010 10:12pm

I'm not willing to pay for the greed and mistakes of previous generations that I have had absolutely nothing to do with (only got the vote for the last GE, couldn't vote cause of exams). At the age of 22 I recently started working after university, for the greater part of my working life I will be paying off the debt of a previous generation. If I have children they will more than likely be adversely affected by debt inherited from 2 generations earlier.

I want to work towards paying for a better future, not paying off a decrepit past. Not going to happen in Ireland for a while.

Renegade_Archer · 31-03-2010 10:22pm

Let's see.

I went from living in Drogheda, driving a Seat Toledo up to IBM Mulhuddart every day, to living in Los Angeles, where it rains maybe 5 times a year, drive a Mazda MX5 1.5 miles to work, and make roughly 5 times as much as I did in Ireland.

Why would I want to "stay and fight", as you put it?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 31-03-2010 10:26pm

Amhran Nua wrote: »

That doesn't make any sense.

]

Which part and why?

Self employed for many years now, and working harder than ever at it. You're looking for work, why not apply for the job which needs no qualifications, has a great remuneration package, you can retire really quickly, and has plenty of perks? The interview process is a bit tricky, but other than that its great - become a TD or councillor! There's nothing stopping you, and as an added bonus you can fix the country in the process.

So you have an income. Great now we are getting somewhere. Does the OP have a job? How can somebody with a job call me a rat for trying to search for a job elsewhere? That's a fcuking insult to say the least. Your opinion doesn't count as you are not in the same position as those who are unemployed. I have bigger problems than broken footpaths and lonely neighbours to sort out.

Why don't I apply to become a brain sergeon or a dentist? For the same reason I wouldn't become a TD, however much I would love to make a change. I simply do not have the skills, experience or education to do any of these jobs.

31-03-2010 10:27pm

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

Just to let you know, 1% is not stagnant, that is growth. No matter what you say, it's not stagnant.

It's pretty simple really. You still haven't given any proof of any of your claims. You are just speculating. You say this is going to increase unemployment over all? I say it's going to increas employment, why? Because it gives people the proper skillset and experience to persue a paid job at the end of their 6 months intern...

Firstly Japan has been hovering from 0.25% GDP growth to 3% GDP growth for the last few years and is described as stagnant.

secondly you have no clue about economics. Its really basic supply and demand. Offer something cheap and people will consumer more of it. Offer workers cheap....i.e at NO COST to the business and the businesses will jump on it displacing real paid jobs, this country hasnt a f*cking hope if people think the WPP scheme is a good thing

31-03-2010 10:31pm

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

I say it's going to increas employment, why? Because it gives people the proper skillset and experience to persue a paid job at the end of their 6 months intern...

Tell me how it will create jobs? It does nothing, not a goddamn thing to tackle the root causes of unemployment here. The main reasons multinationals cite when relocating abroad are:

High Electricity costs
High Wage costs
High Insurance costs
High Rents

Amhran Nua · 31-03-2010 10:33pm

Renegade_Archer wrote: »

Let's see.

I went from living in Drogheda, driving a Seat Toledo up to IBM Mulhuddart every day, to living in Los Angeles, where it rains maybe 5 times a year, drive a Mazda MX5 1.5 miles to work, and make roughly 5 times as much as I did in Ireland.

Why would I want to "stay and fight", as you put it?

And if things turn sour stateside for you, you can always leave and go somewhere else, right?

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

So you have an income. Great now we are getting somewhere. Does the OP have a job? How can somebody with a job call me a rat for trying to search for a job elsewhere? That's a fcuking insult to say the least.

Sure, but I'm not the one saying it.

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

Your opinion doesn't count as you are not in the same position as those who are unemployed. I have bigger problems than broken footpaths and lonely neighbours to sort out.

You have no idea of what my position is.

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

Why don't I apply to become a brain sergeon or a dentist? For the same reason I wouldn't become a TD, however much I would love to make a change. I simply do not have the skills, experience or education to do any of these jobs.

The only skills you need to be a TD are being able to speak in public and win debates. Join the local toastmasters, you're 90% of the way there.

Renegade_Archer · 31-03-2010 10:42pm

Amhran Nua wrote: »

And if things turn sour stateside for you, you can always leave and go somewhere else, right?

Certainly - why anyone in the Republic would forgo a mostly free 3rd level education is beyond me. This is perhaps the only part of leaving I feel slightly guilty about - Ireland educated me, and then I left.

Amhran Nua · 31-03-2010 10:45pm

Renegade_Archer wrote: »

Certainly - why anyone in the Republic would forgo a mostly free 3rd level education is beyond me. This is perhaps the only part of leaving I feel slightly guilty about - Ireland educated me, and then I left.

And the reason you have somewhere better to go is because someone, at some stage, decided to stay and fight to make it better.

If everyone just decided to leave, sooner or later they wouldn't have anyplace better to go. As I already said, I wouldn't hold it against anyone who felt it was in their best interests to leave the country, but try to understand the sentiments of those who work to make countries where you can drive around in a nice Mazda MX5.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 31-03-2010 10:48pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Firstly Japan has been hovering from 0.25% GDP growth to 3% GDP growth for the last few years and is described as stagnant.

secondly you have no clue about economics. Its really basic supply and demand. Offer something cheap and people will consumer more of it. Offer workers cheap....i.e at NO COST to the business and the businesses will jump on it displacing real paid jobs, this country hasnt a f*cking hope if people think the WPP scheme is a good thing

Described by who? Because they haven't a fcuking clue of the meaning of the word.

Stagnant = no growth. Sure if "they" say it's true it must be... :rolleyes:

This country doesn't have a hope if people keep whining about any policies brought out to help people. I honestly couldn't give a fcuk what oyu think of the WPP, all I care about is that it can help me find a job, and that's all that matters. You assume that every company on the scheme is abusing the system. They are not. Again, avoid my questions...

Amhran Nua wrote: »

And if things turn sour stateside for you, you can always leave and go somewhere else, right?

Why not? What is this silly idea that people should be bound to one place? Why should anybody be bound to any one country? Pride? Fcuk pride... pride is not going to help my cause.

You have no idea of what my position is.

You have a job, that's all I need to know. You are debating from a position with little or no experience of emigration. How exactly can you have an opinion on the matter? How can you have the cheek to give people crap for moving abroad to improve their circumstances when you are not in that position? That kind of crap pisses me off. You shouldn't do this, you shouldn't do that... why don't people mind their own business? I'll do what the fcuk I want... Simple as.

The only skills you need to be a TD are being able to speak in public and win debates. Join the local toastmasters, you're 90% of the way there.

...

Mister men · 31-03-2010 10:48pm

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

If I chose to go to another country to find work, I am considered a traitor? I am abandoning my country, community, family and friends? Fcuk that, I am not sitting on my hole waiting for work to land on my lap, nore am I going to sit around this kip to wait for the government to act on the job crisis and do their fcuking jobs. I'm out of here as soon as I possibly can. I just hope my plans work out.

Hope it works out for you. Did the same back in the early 90's when you could'nt find a job for love nor money and the worst mistake i ever made was returning to Ireland in 2002. I'm stuck here now with a ****ty low paid job and the only reason i'm still here is i want my 12 year old daughter to finish up her junior schooling. When she's done in June the three of us are out of this kip and off to the wife's family in Toronto. This country is finished and i feel sorry for anyone left behind to clean up the mess.

Renegade_Archer · 31-03-2010 10:51pm

Amhran Nua wrote: »

And the reason you have somewhere better to go is because someone, at some stage, decided to stay and fight to make it better.

If everyone just decided to leave, sooner or later they wouldn't have anyplace better to go. As I already said, I wouldn't hold it against anyone who felt it was in their best interests to leave the country, but try to understand the sentiments of those who work to make countries where you can drive around in a nice Mazda MX5.

I agree with you, but I honestly don't care. If I stayed in Ireland and continued banging away in IBM for feck all a year I don't think I would have improved Ireland's lot by any appreciable amount. However, I had a chance to improve my own lot by a very appreciable amount, so I went for it.

twinytwo · 31-03-2010 10:53pm

ScumLord wrote: »

I've already said marching is pointless.

true.. the last time there was any real change in this country it was through rebellion and im sad to say it would prob take that again. But then even if we got rid of the government who takes over?.. the muppets sitting on the other side of the dail?.

To really sort out the country you would have to start at the top and clean the whole lot out. Get rid of all the corruption etc

tipperaryboy · 31-03-2010 10:54pm

sure why not go ahead if there is a better future for you abroad.

Amhran Nua · 31-03-2010 10:54pm

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

You have a job, that's all I need to know.

Thats unbelievably ignorant of you to be honest. You seriously think being on the dole is the lowest you can sink? What about the guy up to his eyes in hock to the banks, and his family about to be turfed out on the street? What about the self employed who can't claim social welfare at all (including myself)? What about the poor fella sitting in quiet desperation now the work has run out, in the same position? They'd swap lives with you in a heartbeat.

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

You are debating from a position with little or no experience of emigration.

Again, you know nothing about my position.

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

That kind of crap pisses me off.

I think everything pisses you off to be honest, so I'll just leave it there.

Amhran Nua · 31-03-2010 10:56pm

Renegade_Archer wrote: »

I agree with you, but I honestly don't care. If I stayed in Ireland and continued banging away in IBM for feck all a year I don't think I would have improved Ireland's lot by any appreciable amount. However, I had a chance to improve my own lot by a very appreciable amount, so I went for it.

And thats why I wouldn't hold it against anyone that wants to improve themselves. However, you did ask why would anyone (or even you) stay and fight, and I hope I've answered that question.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 31-03-2010 11:03pm

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Thats unbelievably ignorant of you to be honest. You seriously think being on the dole is the lowest you can sink? What about the guy up to his eyes in hock to the banks, and his family about to be turfed out on the street? What about the self employed who can't claim social welfare at all (including myself)? What about the poor fella sitting in quiet desperation now the work has run out, in the same position? They'd swap lives with you in a heartbeat.

No need to call me ignorant. I am far from ignorant in this case. Where did I imply that the dole was the lowest anybody could sink? That's a very naive thought to say the least.

You have a job, I do not. I want to emigrate to find work and you are telling me that it's the wrong thing to do. That's the kind of crap that pisses me off. You are in no position to tell me what is the right or wrong thing to do.

I asked you what should I do and you link me to your group? I should join that? Is that going to get me a job in the near future? I don't think so. It's easy for you to say "oh stay here and collect your 196 a week, emigrating is wrong"...

It's selfish to want the educated to stay, because we just should...

Again, you know nothing about my position.

You have a job, which is what I am emigrating for. Therefore you cannot tell me what I am doing is wrong.

I think everything pisses you off to be honest, so I'll just leave it there.

Wrong... Not everything

Can you explain this for me?

and that nobody will by merit of mere birth deny the greater wellbeing of the nation for their own personal gain

Agent J · 31-03-2010 11:05pm

All hands abandon ship. Repeat all hands abandon ship!

Good luck to anyone who tries to make a better life for themselves abroad.
If i was in a position to, i would be doing the same.

Rented Mule · 31-03-2010 11:07pm

I left Ireland for the States in August. Found work right away working in IT. Have a part time job that pays very well and just signed a contract on a $450,000 house.

My wife and kids will be following me over this summer.

Now I could have stayed, collected the dole, child allowance and anything else I could get my hands on .....or I could get off of my ass and make a life for me and my family.

So I am a 'rat' for making a better life for my family ?

Laughable.

Amhran Nua · 31-03-2010 11:10pm

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

I want to emigrate to find work and you are telling me that it's the wrong thing to do.

There isn't enough facepalm on the internet...

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 31-03-2010 11:10pm

Rented Mule wrote: »

I left Ireland for the States in August. Found work right away working in IT. Have a part time job that pays very well and just signed a contract on a $450,000 house.

My wife and kids will be following me over this summer.

Now I could have stayed, collected the dole, child allowance and anything else I could get my hands on .....or I could get off of my ass and make a life for me and my family.

So I am a 'rat' for making a better life for my family ?

Laughable.

It's a cowardice and ignorant insult aimed at people looking to improve their lives. I sense that people who don't want you to go abroad are jealous in some way, they want you to stay so their lives may improve? I don't know, it seems very selfish to me.

Fair play to ya by the way

rich1874 · 31-03-2010 11:11pm

Mister men wrote: »

Hope it works out for you. Did the same back in the early 90's when you could'nt find a job for love nor money and the worst mistake i ever made was returning to Ireland in 2002. I'm stuck here now with a ****ty low paid job and the only reason i'm still here is i want my 12 year old daughter to finish up her junior schooling. When she's done in June the three of us are out of this kip and off to the wife's family in Toronto. This country is finished and i feel sorry for anyone left behind to clean up the mess.

The country is finshed? When was this?, (looks out window), nope, country is actually still here. So get off your high horse. You don't have to feel sorry for me by the way, believe it or not the country will continue to function and will prosper again one day. I'm sure Toronto has had its dark economic days and will again so please don't think it's the salvation for mankind.
And i actually disagree with the OP wholeheartedly, people should feel no guilt in going wherever they want, but you don't have to feel sorry for people left behind. It's so melodramatic We won't die or anything.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 31-03-2010 11:12pm

Amhran Nua wrote: »

There isn't enough facepalm on the internet...

Try explaining yourself, would you? Instead of this rubbish you post. What you are doing now is just trolling...

Have you the ability to continue the debate? Comment on my recent points? Address my questions? Or are you going to continue with this type of posting?

Amhran Nua · 31-03-2010 11:20pm

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

Try explaining yourself, would you? Instead of this rubbish you post. What you are doing now is just trolling...

Have you the ability to continue the debate? Comment on my recent points? Address my questions? Or are you going to continue with this type of posting?

Why did you take "seeking any work in Dublin" off your sig recently, just out of interest?

kodute · 31-03-2010 11:25pm

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Why did you take "seeking any work in Dublin" off your sig recently, just out of interest?

I don't have "seeking free Lamborghini" in my sig. Does that mean I don't want one?

I disagree with the OP, its time to march to get these clowns out.

The Master · 31-03-2010 11:26pm

Take it easy guys

You're starting to get personal now

If this keeps up bans will be handed out

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 31-03-2010 11:30pm

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Why did you take "seeking any work in Dublin" off your sig recently, just out of interest?

It was not effective, nothing came of it. It attracted the wrong kind of attention and gave people much needed ammunition for their failing arguements.

I decided today to replace it with an advert. If that's ok with you

Come on, can you answer what I asked in my last post? Cheers.

Tigger · 31-03-2010 11:31pm

on growth
if gdp in year one is 105 then its 100 if we have to take away 5%
if we ecperiance 3% growth then gdp in year 2 is 105 + 3% = 108.015
less 5% leaves 102.85 or therabouts
so year one is 100 an year 2 is 102.85 after adjustment
this should show that a reduction of 5% of gdp is also a reduction of 5% of growth not 5% in growth if 5% lerss of the growth figure

people need to stop scaremongering blaming each other and get on with it
if you wanna go then good luck if you wanna stay then good luck

if i decided to leave and someone called me a rat i rewally would think they were a fool

davyjose · 31-03-2010 11:33pm

Rented Mule wrote: »

I left Ireland for the States in August. Found work right away working in IT. Have a part time job that pays very well and just signed a contract on a $450,000 house.

My wife and kids will be following me over this summer.

Now I could have stayed, collected the dole, child allowance and anything else I could get my hands on .....or I could get off of my ass and make a life for me and my family.

So I am a 'rat' for making a better life for my family ?

Laughable.

Couldn't agree more.

Question is: is it still trolling when it's the opening post?

Amhran Nua · 31-03-2010 11:34pm

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

Come on, can you answer what I asked in my last post? Cheers.

Already did, several times in the thread.

goat2 · 31-03-2010 11:39pm

ScumLord wrote: »

I'm beginning to get a bit pissed off with all this talk of immigration. All these people are in effect abandoning they're communities, families and country, they're leaving this state to the corrupt money hungry "fat cats" that they're complaining about so much. Whatever happened to the fighting Irish, no ones prepared to make a stand for this country instead they flee with their tails between their legs.

Is it really the government that is to blame when we do nothing to stand in their way?

have you been watching the news at all, the country is broke, aib and boi are now being bailed out, these young people did not put we where we are, but they have been let down by the fatcats, they would rather pick stones than draw the dole, fair dues to them,
at least they are not like some of our own, who in the last ten years drew dole, sat on their assh-- when there was plenty work about, those same ones are still doing it
good luck to those who leave for work, and may they prosper

Doop · 31-03-2010 11:41pm

My 2c

Everyone has to do what is best for themselves and their family, sitting around taking handouts and applying endlessly for jobs that you're over qualified for gets tedious.
My motto ... If everyone looks after themselves, everyone gets looked after.

I left "the sinking ship" 2 years ago, and do plan to return at some stage. Ireland is my home and always will be. But im not going to sit around being depressed. I'm getting valuable experience in my chosen field. And when I return I will bring my experience back with me, which in turn will be valuable to the Irish economy.

Thousands of others will do the same, better to have experience working then experience queuing for handouts. I think it’s a fair statement to say many of the Irish overseas will return home at some stage, some will not but that is the price we pay for mismanagement of the economy.

Our country provided me with free education for which I am grateful; however whats the point in having thousands of highly educated people standing around in dole queues.

Run free little Irish graduates, go explore, have fun, get experience

Resi12 · 31-03-2010 11:43pm

Rented Mule wrote: »

I left Ireland for the States in August. Found work right away working in IT. Have a part time job that pays very well and just signed a contract on a $450,000 house.

My wife and kids will be following me over this summer.

Now I could have stayed, collected the dole, child allowance and anything else I could get my hands on .....or I could get off of my ass and make a life for me and my family.

So I am a 'rat' for making a better life for my family ?

Laughable.

You make it sound so easy

but seriously well done and don't listen to anyone calling you a rat. The only rats from Ireland reside in The Dáil at the moment.

Dr_Phil · 31-03-2010 11:47pm

Rented Mule wrote: »

I left Ireland for the States in August. Found work right away working in IT. Have a part time job that pays very well and just signed a contract on a $450,000 house.

My wife and kids will be following me over this summer.

Now I could have stayed, collected the dole, child allowance and anything else I could get my hands on .....or I could get off of my ass and make a life for me and my family.

So I am a 'rat' for making a better life for my family ?

Laughable.

Just as a matter of interest: how do you feel stealing american jobs?

*I'm only messing with you, I robbed one of yours

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 31-03-2010 11:52pm

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

No need to call me ignorant. I am far from ignorant in this case. Where did I imply that the dole was the lowest anybody could sink? That's a very naive thought to say the least.

You have a job, I do not. I want to emigrate to find work and you are telling me that it's the wrong thing to do. You are in no position to tell me what is the right or wrong thing to do.

I asked you what should I do and you link me to your group? I should join that? Is that going to get me a job in the near future? I don't think so. It's easy for you to say "oh stay here and collect your 196 a week, emigrating is wrong"...

It's selfish to want the educated to stay, because we just should...

You have a job, which is what I am emigrating for. Therefore you cannot tell me what I am doing is wrong.

Wrong... Not everything

Can you explain this for me?

and that nobody will by merit of mere birth deny the greater wellbeing of the nation for their own personal gain

You missed a few things in this post

Also. What are the people on social welfare going to do? What should they do while they wait for things to change. Reform will take years, if not more. You want people to stay and not emigrate, but what exactly are these people to do when there is no work in the country for them?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 31-03-2010 11:57pm

Doop wrote: »

Run free little Irish graduates, go explore, have fun, get experience

This made me laugh... Thanks :P

Amhran Nua · 31-03-2010 11:59pm

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

You missed a few things in this post

On the subject of missing things, look back to your post #78 in this thread, then raise your eyes about a centimeter to my two sentence post above that, which is my actual position, not the position you seem bound and determined to misrepresent instead. Its a bit pointless continuing the discussion when you make up your own arguments and then tackle them instead of what was really said. I'll leave you to your quixotic endeavours on that note.

snow ghost · 01-04-2010 12:10am

Emigrants are certainly not 'rats fleeing a sinking ship'.

The Rats are most definitely still here in Ireland - sitting in government gnawing away at the country; feasting on the spoils robbed from the table of the rest of society and feeding their financially obese fat cat friends.

That said some people here are fiddling while Rome burns... time for a political revolution.

The diaspora has always kept the Irish ship afloat - from fenian support in the war of independence to Irish-American investment and goodwill in recent years... invariably they will again with no thanks from the rats here, other than seeing King Rat giving Obama a bowl of shamrock on Paddy's Day.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 01-04-2010 12:41am

Amhran Nua wrote: »

I wouldn't hold it against anyone that wanted to leave to find work elsewhere. I wouldn't advise it though - this is our country, our home, where our friends and family are, and I think thats worth fighting for. Put the watered-beer-peddling publicans and the politicans with their ghoulish mé féinism and post colonial wisdom on the boat and lets run the place properly, Ireland could be an outstanding country with just a little effort.

Its not right that people should be forced to emigrate against their will through the incompetent mismanagement of the place, and by the decisions of a minister whose father infamously said "we can't all live on this little island", for which he should have been run out of politics.

I'm not standing for it and I don't think you should either.

I refer back to your initial post. Where you said you do not advise people to emigrate. I asked you what you advise people to do and you suggested they join your group. I mean seriously... An extremely weak arguement to say the least.

You don't have any good advice because there is nothing for the people to do but keep applying for jobs here, which is not helping by the way. The only real option is to emigrate. Which has worked in the past. The only reason you don't want people to emigrate is to suit your own agenda. Nothing short of what politicians are doing now. I know you think you are trying to help people, but that's not what it's comming accross as. You cannot help anybody in that situation but heckle them for moving abroad. It's a very very selfish view and one that does not have any real footing. "don't emigrate because... eh... because... I actually don't have a reason". All that matters is how these potential emigrants benifit from staying in this country?

Amhran Nua wrote: »

On the subject of missing things, look back to your post #78 in this thread, then raise your eyes about a centimeter to my two sentence post above that, which is my actual position, not the position you seem bound and determined to misrepresent instead. Its a bit pointless continuing the discussion when you make up your own arguments and then tackle them instead of what was really said. I'll leave you to your quixotic endeavours on that note.

You cannot continue this debate as you do not have the answers to the questions. You fail to give direct answers and cannot say why people should not move away.

I think you find I am making perfect sense. What is quite quixotical is staying here while there are no jobs...

Tigger · 01-04-2010 12:43am

my cats breath smells of cat food

Rats fleeing a sinking ship

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