Drink Driving

jayreddin · 22-11-2013 11:59am #1

I'm looking for some advice, I was convicted of drink driving 2 weeks ago. I received a 2 year ban and a €500 fine. I couldn't be in court on the day as I'm in Australia. I made contact with the Garda informing him of the situation and also wrote a letter to the judge to explain this and that a family member was there to represent me, which was presented to the Judge in court on the day.

My blood alcohol limit was 50mg/100mg, but from what I'v read online the legal limit is 50mg/100mg of alcohol in the blood? I'm a non professional full licensed driver with my licence over 6 years and a first time offender.

-Should this of been brought to court or is this normal?
-Was I technically not on the limit?
-Should presumption of been used in an Irish court house? (as in the Judge presumed I was over the limit at some point)
-Should I appeal this or what should I do?

Many Thanks in advance.

Bepolite · 22-11-2013 1:07pm

Speak to a solicitor. If you'd done that in the first instanced you'd have all the above questions answered.

Don't drink and drive - not even one pint, it's not worth it.

jayreddin · 22-11-2013 1:08pm

Thanks, Its hard to arrange all this as I'm in Australia. That's why I'm seeking advice here

Bepolite · 22-11-2013 1:11pm

jayreddin wrote: »

Thanks, Its hard to arrange all this as I'm in Australia. That's why I'm seeking advice here

You can't get legal advice here and frankly I don't buy that it's hard to arrange a solicitor - just phone one of the larger criminal firms or get the family member to do it.

If you were right on the limit I'd suggest taking proper advice on an appeal.

emmabrighton · 22-11-2013 1:47pm

Why did you receive a 2 year ban? That makes no sense.

paddydriver · 22-11-2013 5:24pm

So you still driving away happily in Australia? Do they know your a convicted drink driver...:rolleyes:

Fred Swanson · 22-11-2013 5:28pm

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wexie · 22-11-2013 5:31pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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really? is it not a case that during the ban 'technically' you don't hold a valid license? (that was my understanding? which might well be wrong)

Or do you mean there simply is no way of checking this from Australia?
What if he had an accident in Ozz and the insurance company went looking for details?

Fred Swanson · 22-11-2013 5:35pm

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porter shark · 22-11-2013 5:53pm

How much drink had u? Just curious bout how much leaves a man right on the limit!

dobman88 · 23-11-2013 12:27pm

porter shark wrote: »

How much drink had u? Just curious bout how much leaves a man right on the limit!

That's irrelevant. Drink driving is drink driving. One is too many. Just don't do it.

FreudianSlippers · 23-11-2013 12:41pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Agreed, however wexie has a good point. Regardless of whether the insurance is on the vehicle, if you do not hold a valid licence to drive, the insurance doesn't have to pay out (frequent occurrence in the US). If the OP is driving on the basis of having a physical Irish licence in Australia, however in reality he does not have a valid licence - it's a risky game.

If the OP ditches the Irish licence and gets a new Australian one, there is nothing stopping him from doing that and nothing compelling him to tell them about his past errors.

FreudianSlippers · 23-11-2013 12:57pm

Disclaimer: I'm no expert in criminal law. After the MCQ in criminal law in the Inns, I tried to forget as much as humanly possible... so I'm open to correction on these points. However, I think I can answer some of your questions nonetheless:

jayreddin wrote: »

My blood alcohol limit was 50mg/100mg, but from what I'v read online the legal limit is 50mg/100mg of alcohol in the blood? I'm a non professional full licensed driver with my licence over 6 years and a first time offender.

The amount of alcohol in the blood is actually a second part of the offence. You could be totally fine to the observer, but be over the limit - you're breaking the law. You could also look totally smashed and be all over the road, but be under the limit - still an offence.

Prohibition on driving mechanically propelled vehicle while under influence of intoxicant or if exceeding alcohol limits.

You likely fell into Section 4(1)

A person shall not drive or attempt to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place while he or she is under the influence of an intoxicant to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the vehicle.

jayreddin wrote: »

-Should this of been brought to court or is this normal?

Normal

jayreddin wrote: »

-Was I technically not on the limit?

See above.

jayreddin wrote: »

-Should presumption of been used in an Irish court house? (as in the Judge presumed I was over the limit at some point)

I'm not sure what you mean by this. I presume the member of AGS showed up and informed the court that you failed roadside tests and had a BAC of 50mg/100mg - you had also failed to appear to contest. I'm not sure how the criminal judges would react to a letter and family member, but in the civil side: either you're there or you send a solicitor on your behalf.

jayreddin wrote: »

-Should I appeal this or what should I do?

Phone/email a solicitor as suggested. Explain the situation and they will give you advice.

suave.4u · 23-11-2013 1:01pm

porter shark wrote: »

How much drink had u? Just curious bout how much leaves a man right on the limit!

When the house is burning, you stand there trying to light your cigarette with the fire.

slimjimmc · 23-11-2013 1:10pm

How did this even end up in court? Surely a fixed penalty would have been issued unless it's not your first DD notice within the previous 3 years?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driving_offences/drink_driving_offences_in_ireland.html

Edit: Just saw FreudianSlippers's bit about not being in control.

mcgarrett · 23-11-2013 11:09pm

The Op's story doesn't make sense, if he was a fully licensed driver he is not in excess of the limit which is 50mgs per 100mls. You have to exceed 50.

If he was treated as a specified driver the limit is 20, so if he was 50 he would get a FCPN.

Don't know where this 2 year disqualification is coming from.

Pro Hoc Vice · 23-11-2013 11:37pm

mcgarrett wrote: »

The Op's story doesn't make sense, if he was a fully licensed driver he is not in excess of the limit which is 50mgs per 100mls. You have to exceed 50.

If he was treated as a specified driver the limit is 20, so if he was 50 he would get a FCPN.

Don't know where this 2 year disqualification is coming from.

Did the court have evidence of the full licence, I assume not, as the OP did not attend.

Pro Hoc Vice · 23-11-2013 11:41pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Disclaimer: I'm no expert in criminal law. After the MCQ in criminal law in the Inns, I tried to forget as much as humanly possible... so I'm open to correction on these points. However, I think I can answer some of your questions nonetheless:

The amount of alcohol in the blood is actually a second part of the offence. You could be totally fine to the observer, but be over the limit - you're breaking the law. You could also look totally smashed and be all over the road, but be under the limit - still an offence.

Prohibition on driving mechanically propelled vehicle while under influence of intoxicant or if exceeding alcohol limits.

You likely fell into Section 4(1)

Normal
See above.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. I presume the member of AGS showed up and informed the court that you failed roadside tests and had a BAC of 50mg/100mg - you had also failed to appear to contest. I'm not sure how the criminal judges would react to a letter and family member, but in the civil side: either you're there or you send a solicitor on your behalf.
Phone/email a solicitor as suggested. Explain the situation and they will give you advice.

While everything you state is correct, and most importantly the difference between simple intoxicated driving and a sample case. It would be most unusual of a DJ to convict of simple intoxicated driving (unless really strong evidence of inability to have proper control) if not in excess of the limit.

The issue I think here is as no evidence (telling AGS I have a full licence is not evidence) of a full licence so convicted under the lower limit.

Pro Hoc Vice · 23-11-2013 11:46pm

jayreddin wrote: »

I'm looking for some advice, I was convicted of drink driving 2 weeks ago. I received a 2 year ban and a €500 fine. I couldn't be in court on the day as I'm in Australia. I made contact with the Garda informing him of the situation and also wrote a letter to the judge to explain this and that a family member was there to represent me, which was presented to the Judge in court on the day.

My blood alcohol limit was 50mg/100mg, but from what I'v read online the legal limit is 50mg/100mg of alcohol in the blood? I'm a non professional full licensed driver with my licence over 6 years and a first time offender.

-Should this of been brought to court or is this normal?
-Was I technically not on the limit?
-Should presumption of been used in an Irish court house? (as in the Judge presumed I was over the limit at some point)
-Should I appeal this or what should I do?

Many Thanks in advance.

OP why have you waited 2 weeks, you have to take appeal within 15 days. Now to appeal an application must be made to the DJ to extend time and set recogs. BTW you remain banned if the appeal is late until the appeal.

Did you have person in court produce your full licence, or ask for an adjournment or even say "sorry judge he has full licence."

If you want to get rid of this conviction, then get a solicitor at this stage this not not be sorted by anyone other than you or a solicitor and a solicitor will be far cheaper than a flight home. Don't wait make the call Monday morning.

mcgarrett · 23-11-2013 11:58pm

There's not a hope a Superintendent would direct a prosecution for Drink driving simpliciter when a certificate of analysis is available.
A dangerous driving charge could be added.

Is it possible the OP has been put off the road for no insurance and thinks it's for the Drink driving charge.

Pro Hoc Vice · 24-11-2013 12:08am

mcgarrett wrote: »

There's not a hope a Superintendent would direct a prosecution for Drink driving simpliciter when a certificate of analysis is available.
A dangerous driving charge could be added.

Is it possible the OP has been put off the road for no insurance and thinks it's for the Drink driving charge.

It's more likely that the OP never produced a full licence, otherwise why was evidence given of sample result.

Zambia · 24-11-2013 2:17am

It may vary from state to state but if your. Irish licence is not current you are not licenced to drive on it in Victoria.

Five Lamps · 24-11-2013 4:24pm

It's also odd that the OP in the knowledge that he would be facing a court appearance and out of the country, did not appoint a solicitor to act on his behalf.

Most people who are in Australia for long or short periods will use their Irish drivers licence for the first year there. The OP can no longer avail of this and will have to apply (if legally allowed to) for an Oz licence.

Zambia · 24-11-2013 4:57pm

Five Lamps wrote: »

Most people who are in Australia for long or short periods will use their Irish drivers licence for the first year there. The OP can no longer avail of this and will have to apply (if legally allowed to) for an Oz licence.

If you are on a Permanent visa you have 6 months to get a Victorian licence

If you are on a temporary visa you can drive on your irish licence for the lenght of your stay.

Fred Swanson · 24-11-2013 4:59pm

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Zambia · 24-11-2013 5:02pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Of course you could but until recently you would be mad to.

Fred Swanson · 24-11-2013 5:04pm

This post has been deleted.

Zambia · 24-11-2013 5:09pm

They started a points tally on drivers not just licences

jayreddin · 25-11-2013 6:44am

emmabrighton wrote: »

Why did you receive a 2 year ban? That makes no sense.

Assumption is all I can guess that was used here. maybe my absence from court didn't help either but I did inform them and had someone representing me. But the physical evidence which was the blood results proved I was on the limit.

jayreddin · 25-11-2013 6:46am

porter shark wrote: »

How much drink had u? Just curious bout how much leaves a man right on the limit!

I had one large bottle of Bulmers. that was it.

seamus · 25-11-2013 6:54am

I suspect you're mixing up your measures.

If your blood alcohol was 50mg, then the disqualification is 6 months.

However if your breath registered at 50mcg per 100ml, then that's a 2 year ban for a first offence.

They are minimum periods, which the judge can increase, but if the judge was looking to punish you, he would have levied a much bigger fine than €500. Looks to me like you got the minimum ban for a 50mcg breath test, and a relatively light fine.

EireinOZ · 25-11-2013 6:55am

How long are you in OZ for ? If ur in oz for the next 2 years , i would pay the fine and forget about it(its not worth the agreement )! but i would change over my license to the oz one and carry on driving in oz ! But if your cot drinking and driving here , the courts here are alot harder on people ( especially the Irish ). So i hope u have learnt ur lesson , drinking and driving , its not worth it!

jayreddin · 25-11-2013 7:01am

I sent Photo copies of my Full Drivers Licence and Visa, Flights etc. I was insured and this is my first offence.

And I wasn't driving all over the road. The Garda car was behind me for 5 minutes roughly then pulled into a housing estate but came out the other side and back behind me and after 5 minutes I was stopped and breathalyzed by chance as the Garda straight away asked for my licence and insurance cert and then said he could smell drink but my friend drank alot more than me. It was me and a friend of mine in the car.

I live in Clondalkin and get stopped alot in the area. Don't want to start something here but in my opinion I was stopped because it was 2 young males driving a car at approx 1am. Its happened far to many times been stopped for no apparent reason other then presentation.

Moral of the story is tho the legal limit is what I was on. Am I right to appeal?

Apparently from my Mam she said that the Judge on that day was very harsh with everyone he dealt with for other offences too.

jayreddin · 25-11-2013 7:02am

seamus wrote: »

I suspect you're mixing up your measures.

If your blood alcohol was 50mg, then the disqualification is 6 months.

However if your breath registered at 50mcg per 100ml, then that's a 2 year ban for a first offence.

They are minimum periods, which the judge can increase, but if the judge was looking to punish you, he would have levied a much bigger fine than €500. Looks to me like you got the minimum ban for a 50mcg breath test, and a relatively light fine.

It was a blood test that was taken not a breath sample

jayreddin · 25-11-2013 7:04am

EireinOZ wrote: »

How long are you in OZ for ? If ur in oz for the next 2 years , i would pay the fine and forget about it(its not worth the agreement )! but i would change over my license to the oz one and carry on driving in oz ! But if your cot drinking and driving here , the courts here are alot harder on people ( especially the Irish ). So i hope u have learnt ur lesson , drinking and driving , its not worth it!

I already have a Victorian licence. No it was a once off stupid thing I done. It's the fact I feel I'm in the right and shouldn't have been convicted this harshly

EireinOZ · 25-11-2013 7:15am

you got off lightly , i know people who be ban for 2 years and got 2000 euro fine !! a policeman is always gona be a policeman ! Think of it this way , the driving ban aint gona effect u in oz and u can carry on as normal. U can appeal it , but is it real worth it ? Plus somebody back home has the hassle of running around after it back home.
The police are worst in oz , i got a $260 fine for having a air fresher hanging from my mirror , a $350 fine for not stoping at a stop sigh for 10 sec and $180 a speeding fine for driving 41 mph in a 40 zone .
Had a mate cot drinking driving here, car taken off him , cost $1200 to get the car back , $3600 fine for drinking driving and ban for driving for 18 months .

Patrickheg · 25-11-2013 7:21am

Bepolite wrote: »

Don't drink and drive - not even one pint, it's not worth it.

Eyes roll

Mellor · 25-11-2013 7:26am

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

That depends on which state you are in.
Some you can apply straight away, others you need to be there 6 months continuously.

Patrickheg · 25-11-2013 7:28am

EireinOZ wrote: »

Had a mate cot drinking driving here, car taken off him , cost $1200 to get the car back , $3600 fine for drinking driving and ban for driving for 18 months .

Ireland needs fines like this for the serious repeat offenders

Zambia · 25-11-2013 8:25am

EireinOZ wrote: »

How long are you in OZ for ? If ur in oz for the next 2 years , i would pay the fine and forget about it(its not worth the agreement )! but i would change over my license to the oz one and carry on driving in oz ! But if your cot drinking and driving here , the courts here are alot harder on people ( especially the Irish ). So i hope u have learnt ur lesson , drinking and driving , its not worth it!

What evidence have you the courts are harder on the irish here? The courts are hard on Drink Driving here full stop due to minimum sentences.

The magistrates are bound to impose certain sentences like alcolock periods and disqualification periods.

Zambia · 25-11-2013 8:37am

EireinOZ wrote: »

you got off lightly , i know people who be ban for 2 years and got 2000 euro fine !! a pig is always gona be a pig ! Think of it this way , the driving ban aint gona effect u in oz and u can carry on as normal. U can appeal it , but is it real worth it ? Plus somebody back home has the hassle of running around after it back home.
The pigs are worst in oz , i got a $260 fine for having a air fresher hanging from my mirror , a $350 fine for not stoping at a stop sigh for 10 sec and $180 a speeding fine for driving 41 mph in a 40 zone .
Had a mate cot drinking driving here, car taken off him , cost $1200 to get the car back , $3600 fine for drinking driving and ban for driving for 18 months .

Must have met the Highway Patrol.

You were fined for item obstructing your forward vision? Sounds like you decided to be smart to the Constable and he decided to hit you with the lot.

I cant see why with all the pig comments you seem charming?

Corkbah · 25-11-2013 8:37am

Patrickheg wrote: »

Ireland needs fines like this for the serious repeat offenders

Ireland needs fines like those to stop the repeat offenders … so they should be the mandatory minimum to deter people repeating …those who repeat should get harsher sentences/fines.

Pro Hoc Vice · 25-11-2013 9:20am

jayreddin wrote: »

I sent Photo copies of my Full Drivers Licence and Visa, Flights etc. I was insured and this is my first offence.

And I wasn't driving all over the road. The Garda car was behind me for 5 minutes roughly then pulled into a housing estate but came out the other side and back behind me and after 5 minutes I was stopped and breathalyzed by chance as the Garda straight away asked for my licence and insurance cert and then said he could smell drink but my friend drank alot more than me. It was me and a friend of mine in the car.

I live in Clondalkin and get stopped alot in the area. Don't want to start something here but in my opinion I was stopped because it was 2 young males driving a car at approx 1am. Its happened far to many times been stopped for no apparent reason other then presentation.

Moral of the story is tho the legal limit is what I was on. Am I right to appeal?

Apparently from my Mam she said that the Judge on that day was very harsh with everyone he dealt with for other offences too.

They will not accept a photocopy of a licence, you did not provide the correct evidence. Get a solicitor and appeal the matter. Did you contact a solicitor this morning as you maybe out of time.

Rubberchikken · 25-11-2013 9:28am

To me it's irrelevan what age, sex or creed you are. It doesn't matter where you live or what type of car you drive or that two young males were driving around at 1 in the morning.

What is relevant to me is you drank alchol and drove.

That, to me, is totally unacceptable. Take your punishment and get on with it and hopefully, learn from it.

I would seriously hope you never consider drink driving in Australia, as I would guess they are a lot more harsh on the topic there.

EireinOZ · 25-11-2013 9:53am

Zambia wrote: »

Must have met the Highway Patrol.

You were fined for item obstructing your forward vision? Sounds like you decided to be smart to the Constable and he decided to hit you with the lot.

I cant see why with all the pig comments you seem charming?

You dont even know me and your judging me . I seem charming ?? You seem like a person that judges a book by they cover and looking for an agreement!!
Just fyi , i wasnt smart to the police man , i took my fine, said sorry and drove on and pay it the next day and also police have the nick name of pig all over the world !!

Zambia · 25-11-2013 10:26am

EireinOZ wrote: »

You dont even know me and your judging me . I seem charming ?? You seem like a person that judges a book by they cover and looking for an agreement!!
Just fyi , i wasnt smart to the police man , i took my fine, said sorry and drove on and pay it the next day and also police have the nick name of pig all over the world !!

All people are judged by what they say/write.

I am not looking for an argument at all. Its a logical inference if you refer to coppers as pigs and a cop gives you a ticket reserved for people who decide to be smart to them.

jayreddin · 25-11-2013 11:00am

Rubberchikken wrote: »

To me it's irrelevan what age, sex or creed you are. It doesn't matter where you live or what type of car you drive or that two young males were driving around at 1 in the morning.

What is relevant to me is you drank alchol and drove.

That, to me, is totally unacceptable. Take your punishment and get on with it and hopefully, learn from it.

I would seriously hope you never consider drink driving in Australia, as I would guess they are a lot more harsh on the topic there.

I wasn't over the limit tho. I was borderline on the limit. And it was my first and last time. It's not like I do it every weekend. A once off!!

And you obviously don't live where I do the Garda are know locally for this type of behavior. I get stopped at least once a week in my local area and never a problem so why would they keep stopping me for other than what they see??

I had one bottle its not like I was absolutely pissed.

everyone has there opinion but I'm sorry I don't agree with yours. I am not a bad person far from. So I made a mistake and have learned. I am human after all. Frankly I'm looking for legal advice and yours is anything but. I'd appreciate if you kept it to yourself. Thanks

jayreddin · 25-11-2013 11:03am

infosys wrote: »

They will not accept a photocopy of a licence, you did not provide the correct evidence. Get a solicitor and appeal the matter. Did you contact a solicitor this morning as you maybe out of time.

The Garda who prosecuted me said that they'd accept a copy of my licence in the letter. I have contacted one who is looking into the matter etc. I'm just looking for other peoples opinions too. One's that are relevant to what I'm asking. Thank you.

EireinOZ · 25-11-2013 11:18am

Zambia wrote: »

All people are judged by what they say/write.

I am not looking for an argument at all. Its a logical inference if you refer to coppers as pigs and a cop gives you a ticket reserved for people who decide to be smart to them.

O my god !! Stop been a TROLL!!! The police man give me a ticket because i had a air fresher hanging from my mirrior not for been smart to him ! He was actually just doing his job , their nothing more to it !!!!

My own brother is a police man in the uk and he doesnt care if you refer police to as pigs as its slang term , or a bit banter! Even in the Simpsons police are refer to as pigs !! My advice to you is grow a sense of humor and move on !!!!

seb65 · 25-11-2013 11:38am

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Agreed, however wexie has a good point. Regardless of whether the insurance is on the vehicle, if you do not hold a valid licence to drive, the insurance doesn't have to pay out (frequent occurrence in the US). If the OP is driving on the basis of having a physical Irish licence in Australia, however in reality he does not have a valid licence - it's a risky game.

If the OP ditches the Irish licence and gets a new Australian one, there is nothing stopping him from doing that and nothing compelling him to tell them about his past errors.

Wrong. If the OP has past traffic violations he must disclose it to the insurance company per the utmost good faith rule. They can void ab initio the insurance contact if he lies.

Zambia · 25-11-2013 11:38am

EireinOZ wrote: »

O my god !! Stop been a TROLL!!! The police man give me a ticket because i had a air fresher hanging from my mirrior not for been smart to him ! He was actually just doing his job , their nothing more to it !!!!

My own brother is a police man in the uk and he doesnt care if you refer police to as pigs as its slang term , or a bit banter! Even in the Simpsons police are refer to as pigs !! My advice to you is grow a sense of humor and move on !!!!

If a Victorian Police officer gave you a ticket for an air freshener you pissed him off its that simple.

Drink Driving

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