Cold weather tips: Stopping your pipes from freezing

LemonDropKid mentioned probs with mains freezing - we have the same issue but it's not everyone on the road.

My problem is I can't get the WSC-R cover off the mains cover to pour boiling water/heat the inlet pipe, where I'm pretty sure the problem is. There is a locking mechanism on the left of the cover that I can turn 45 degrees, but eventhough the cover shifts around, I can't get it off (see the round WSC-R cast iron cover on the left of the page http://www.iplgroup.ie/assets/miscmedia/ORBITAL_DuctileIron_01.pdf).

Major help if anyone can help me out!!!! MAJOR HELP

Joey the lips wrote: »

If this is a meter box then does this actually mean there is no stop cock in it..... Curious. Surly(Dont call me surly) they would have to fit a stop cock with the meter.....

I called up IPL this morning (the company that manufacture the WSC-R) and they told me it is probably just jammed, to keep trying.... GREAT! Poured boiling water over it, hit it with the hammer a few times to loosen anything stuck, but still the "key" turns about 45 degrees with no lift from the lid :-( Haven't a clue where to go now???? Any ideas or has anyone actually got the lid off?

This morning our outside tap is running, but is there any way to know if the outside tap is running off the mains directly or off the tank also? Especially now that it looks like I cannot get at the meter/stop-cock.

niallb wrote: »

Of course the lightbulb isn't going to heat the attic that much, what it does is keep the air moving so that moisture is less likely to freeze on them.

Put your hand near the 100W lightbulb. Don't touch it to see how hot it is.
You'll feel a breeze because air moves from cold to slightly less cold.
This makes the air nearest the pipes move just a little faster, and makes
it just a little less likely for frost to settle on them.

Frost forms when moisture in the surrounding air hits an object that is cold enough for it to condensate and freeze on. For frost to form on your pipes, they would have to be frozen already.
Normally pipes freeze when the air around them is below zero and absorbs heat from the pipe causing the water to freeze.
The air flow caused by the bulb is interesting. Yes airflow will be caused upwards as the bulb heats surrounding air which rises, sucking cold air up from below. In a situation where a bulb is above the pipes, it pulls cold air up over the pipes before reaching the bulb which heats it. If you consider a situation where the surrounding air is below freezing, you are increasing the flow of cold air over the pipes, which would actually increase the speed the pipes would freeze

On a separate note its interesting, that due to the “non existing” water shortage that some people talked about here, that water pressure has been cut in attempt to save water :mad: The irony is that people like my elderly parents, who heated their house, had proper insulation on their tank/pipes/house etc… and conserved water, now have no water except for the cold kitchen tap. There isn’t enough pressure to pump water to the attic tanks, which means no showers, toilet, washing etc…

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Some people here need to catch up on their physics 101 regarding lightbulbs...

I believe you are one of these people also

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Firstly, 100W is hardly going to send off cold air back to the artic. But when people are comparing heating an attic to heating a living room, something critical is being forgotten.

(Since no one else gave this example, I presume this is aimed at me) The example of the living room versus attic was rather crude in physics terms, but it was given to point out that if 2KW of heat energy escapes from an insulated room (25-30 degrees difference), what hope does a 0.1KW (20 times smaller) heater (i.e. Light bulb) have of heating a non insulated room (5-10 degrees different). Admittedly, probably not the best example.

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

The rate of heat flow between a and b depends on the temperature difference between them. I.e. how fast heat is conducted depends on the temperature difference between a room and the garden outside. So a room which is heated 20 or 30 degrees hotter than outside is going to need quite a lot more heat than a room heated to 2 or 5 degrees above outside temperature.

Correct, aka Newton's law of cooling. However you have to factor in all aspects of this law, including heat transfer coefficient, which will be quite different between an insulated room and a non insulated attic.
It seems a lot of people believe because their attics are insulated, that their tank/pipes will be protected more, as the cold won’t get into their attic. In a lot of cases this is incorrect since the insulation is between the top floor and attic space, rather than the attic space and outside. In this case the chances of the tank/pipes freezing increases, as the heat is held below the attic and the attic space gets colder, increasing the likelihood of freezing. Of course, if the insulation is laid correctly over the tank/pipes and not under the tank, there should be no freezing as long as heat is coming from below!

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Secondly, though it's open to correction, ALL the energy from a 100W lightbulb is going to result in heat sooner or later. That visible light is going to be absorbed by various things so it's going to result in heat, for example. Besides, 80% or thereabouts is emitted as non-visible light energy, aka heat.

Yea, pretty much, except what light is reflected, is lost travelling through the atmosphere and escapes from the space. Most light bulbs give off 90% of their energy as heat and only 10% light. Yes a lot is in the UV and IR spectrums.

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Finally, a good chunk (I don't know how much) of the heat is the radiated infra-red-light kind of heat. That's going to heat in some way or another, all the surfaces it shines on. I don't think the convective air flow thing is particularly important. If the air has already frozen the pipes, it's not going to cool them no matter what sort of breeze blows! Pipes don't suffer from wind chill:rolleyes:

Eh, no :rolleyes: Even if the light bulb dissipated 100% of its energy as infra red heat, what percentage do you think would hit the pipes from a non focused bulb above the pipes? Even if it was 1%, the amount of heat transferred would be 1W. Even still, the max amount of heat that can be provided is 100W for the given space. Wind chill??? If you mean convection, you can’t just discount convection like that. Of course freezing air flowing around frozen pipes won’t make any difference, but freezing air flowing around non frozen pipes will! They will freeze faster due to the increased airflow. This is the principle a car radiator or convection heater works on. Admittedly the pipes don’t have anything like the surface area, but convection still counts.

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Apologies if I went a bit nerdy there but I felt that people shouldn't be given the wrong impression. The facts are that leaving a strong light on in the attic will make a small but significant difference to keeping pipes ice free. It's not a guarantee but it sure as hell will make a lot of people sleep more soundly and less likely to be forced to leave the tap running. Especially if they are too immobile to haul up heaters or put up makeshift insulation!

For something to be a fact, it has to be proved. You have not done that.
In a tiny room with tank and pipes taking up most of the space and insulation shielding the room from the outside, I would accept that a 100w bulb may make a difference of a few degrees. You can’t otherwise say it will make a difference, due to the complexity of the other external factors involved like:
The size of the space being heated, The insulation between outside and inside, The insulation between house and attic, Insulation between bulb and tank/pipes, Outside temp, Heat provided from the house below, Water temp, Size of pipes, Material of pipes, Water flow, Thermal transfer between materials.
I think with the extreme temperatures outside, a lot of people had their mains water cut off due to pipes freezing outside. Not much can be done about this besides burying the pipes deeper, adding insulation, heating the water (somehow) or keep the flow running (these will only slow down freezing process and obviously aren’t practical).
Also a lot of people had their attic pipes/tanks freeze, due to either lack of insulation (over their tank), or heat in the right places (i.e. the room directly under their tank).
Either way, leaving a tap running (while helpful) is irresponsible. We seem to be experiencing longer periods of temperatures below zero. This day in age, there is not much excuse for not having proper loft insulation, considering the price, the savings and the grants available. The majority of people have heating. Of course there is always the odd exception