Cold weather tips: Stopping your pipes from freezing

Joey the lips · 10-01-2010 10:10am

For all you folks with frozen mains I am wondering if the most senseable thing to do would be to keep the path ways to your house swept. Most mains follows the path route so keeping it swept will stop the snow acting like a cold blanket and keeping the cold in the ground.

As the sun comes out it will have a fairer chance of heating the ground thus defrosting the pipes.

John mac · 10-01-2010 10:11am

Too wrote: »

Am I right in saying that the mains goes to the kitchen sink before going to the attic? If so, as our kitchen tap isn't working I know that the problem is outside.

Yes that is correct.

check with your neighbors, the mains may have been turned off.

Too · 10-01-2010 10:38am

Joey the lips wrote: »

For all you folks with frozen mains I am wondering if the most senseable thing to do would be to keep the path ways to your house swept. Most mains follows the path route so keeping it swept will stop the snow acting like a cold blanket and keeping the cold in the ground.

As the sun comes out it will have a fairer chance of heating the ground thus defrosting the pipes.

I think I'll move the cars too as from the position of the outside stopcock on the footpath I suspect the pipe runs under the driveway. This will let the sun at it (although looking at the clouds I'm expecting snow rather than sun today).

Sierra Oscar · 10-01-2010 11:15am

bublehead wrote: »

I would question whether a person should be able to install heat lamps over a water tank? It’s the reason we have IP ratings on electrical items in the bathroom, water and electricity don’t mix. IR heat lamps have their uses, but wouldn’t have thought heating a water tank as one of them.

These are specialist units manufactured to prevent attic plumbing from freezing over, used in main-land Europe often. Ill grab a picture of the box later.

When you think about it, how do Europeans who get far colder weather than us deal with this issue year in year out?

PLIIM · 10-01-2010 11:27am

martyc5674 wrote: »

Sorry but its a myth!!...A 100W bulb wouldnt warm your socks never mind a large uninsulated draughty attic..its nonsense and you have just been lucky/your pipes are well covered.

subiedunne speaks sense...listen to him/her!

Marty.

Ha ha
. I dare you to say that to us while grasping a lighting 100w bulb with both hands

vektarman · 10-01-2010 11:36am

martyc5674 wrote: »

Didnt realise they were essentially illegal nowadays...they were all the rage when i was growing up!!
Havent seen one in years...great yokes!! .....click click click BANG BANG BANG... starting em up was always hairy, flames could travel any distance across the room!
Marty

Lol'd at this, it brings back memories:), you should link this to the All Things Retro forum, they'd enjoy this.

jacksey · 10-01-2010 12:05pm

Can anyone help, im desperate, noticed no water in kitchen tap yesterday checked tanks in attic and there was water in them so presume pipes from outside frozen, my problem is that i have a back boiler as my main source of heating the house so my question is can i keep a small fire lit to keep some heat in the house.

JOJOC · 10-01-2010 12:54pm

Hi guys
Thanks for the replies, the pipe out to the shed is above ground - not sure if this makes a difference, there is a steel encasement around it, should i put hot cloths on this?

Cheers

Rob2D · 10-01-2010 3:39pm

Our pipes were freezing too so yesterday and today we poured alcohol on the mains outside. It seems to be doing the trick as the water came back pretty quick.

TheMoose · 10-01-2010 3:44pm

subiedunne wrote: »

Our water supplies are running dangerously low please do not leave your taps running.

:pac: Good one.

Saibh · 10-01-2010 6:03pm

We have an infrared heat bulb in the attic over the water tank.

The switch is located in the hotpress and is turned on when it is needed.

We had no water upstairs in the house one day, turned it on and we had water after a few hours.

RedLedbetter · 10-01-2010 6:15pm

LemonDropKid mentioned probs with mains freezing - we have the same issue but it's not everyone on the road.

My problem is I can't get the WSC-R cover off the mains cover to pour boiling water/heat the inlet pipe, where I'm pretty sure the problem is. There is a locking mechanism on the left of the cover that I can turn 45 degrees, but eventhough the cover shifts around, I can't get it off (see the round WSC-R cast iron cover on the left of the page http://www.iplgroup.ie/assets/miscmedia/ORBITAL_DuctileIron_01.pdf).

Major help if anyone can help me out!!!! MAJOR HELP

Zen65 · 10-01-2010 6:17pm

Saibh wrote: »

We have an infrared heat bulb in the attic over the water tank.

The switch is located in the hotpress and is turned on when it is needed.

We had no water upstairs in the house one day, turned it on and we had water after a few hours.

The advantage of a heat lamp is that it "directs" its heat downward onto the pipes which is what you need in an attic, but you could just as easily put a convection heater into the attic to keep the temperature there above freezing. The trick is not to warm the water (and certainly don't be tempted to warm the tank, unless you intend to run the water through all the pipes which is a complete waste).

As previously said here, a 100W bulb near the pipes will also keep the pipe temp above freezing, and no, it won't heat your attic but why would anyone want to? The trick is simply to avoid freezing temps in the pipes.

In the long term, insulation on all the pipework is the best solution, as you avoid letting the heat escape out of the pipes in the first place.

Zen65 · 10-01-2010 6:30pm

Rob2D wrote: »

Our pipes were freezing too so yesterday and today we poured alcohol on the mains outside. It seems to be doing the trick as the water came back pretty quick.

I'm sorry to say that pouring alcohol onto the mains pipe is only slightly less effective than pouring water onto the pipe. Since the water and alcohol do not mix through the pipe, the chemical composition of what you pour on is more or less irrelevant.

In fact, because alcohol can remove heat from the pipes through evaporation, it is slightly less effective than water. Yes, the alcohol wont freeze later, but it can still reach freezing temperatures.

Warm, salty water (salt simply to avoid the inconvenience of having this water later turn to ice) is fine for this. Don't use boiling water on the pipes if you can avoid it as it only increases the chances of thermal damage (leaks) to the pipework & joints.

Cheers,

Zen65 · 10-01-2010 6:38pm

RedLedbetter wrote: »

My problem is I can't get the WSC-R cover off the mains cover to pour boiling water/heat the inlet pipe, where I'm pretty sure the problem is. There is a locking mechanism on the left of the cover that I can turn 45 degrees, but eventhough the cover shifts around, I can't get it off .............

I've not known these covers to have locking devices, unlike electrical or telecom utility covers which do. The "lock" shaped hole is typically installed to allow a lifting key be inserted and twisted (by 90 degrees, where it remains fixed in the cover to allow a lifting force be applied).

Are you using a lift key? ..... or are you simply trying to lift from the edges (which is damned hard to do)?

A stopcock key with a large hook at the end is often suited to lifting the cover off...... stick the hook end into the keyhole and lift at an angle.

Zen65 · 10-01-2010 6:44pm

jacksey wrote: »

Can anyone help, im desperate, noticed no water in kitchen tap yesterday checked tanks in attic and there was water in them so presume pipes from outside frozen, my problem is that i have a back boiler as my main source of heating the house so my question is can i keep a small fire lit to keep some heat in the house.

Yes you can light a fire, as long as the small tank in the attic has water in it. This is the top-up reservoir for your heating system and the level rises & falls as the water in the back-boiler heats & cools.

Check this tank regularly when the fire is on (once every 2 - 3hrs) just to be sure. If the rads suddenly go cold while the fire is on this is also an indicator that your system may have lost water.

Don't presume the pipes to your house are frozen outside... the blockage might be under your sink; use a convector heater to warm the pipes there and see if your supply returns.

Stay warm.

RedLedbetter · 10-01-2010 6:46pm

Cheers Zen - actually, here is the specific meter box and cover, I'm dealing with:

http://www.iplgroup.ie/assets/miscmedia/WSC-R%2001%20Spec.%20Sheet.pdf

There is a locking device, I've no key, but the lock is just square shaped and I have something that fits, but it only turns by 45 degrees. I also have a hook bar I can slide into the other opening to lift the lid directly up, but it's not coming, but shifting around as mentioned.

Joey the lips · 10-01-2010 6:52pm

RedLedbetter wrote: »

Cheers Zen - actually, here is the specific meter box and cover, I'm dealing with:

http://www.iplgroup.ie/assets/miscmedia/WSC-R%2001%20Spec.%20Sheet.pdf

There is a locking device, I've no key, but the lock is just square shaped and I have something that fits, but it only turns by 45 degrees. I also have a hook bar I can slide into the other opening to lift the lid directly up, but it's not coming, but shifting around as mentioned.

I have the exact same one and I cannot open the fecker. Its doing my head it. I will phone that company tomorrow and see what the key is called and where I get it.

Thanks

Zen65 · 10-01-2010 6:56pm

RedLedbetter wrote: »

Cheers Zen - actually, here is the specific meter box and cover, I'm dealing with:

http://www.iplgroup.ie/assets/miscmedia/WSC-R%2001%20Spec.%20Sheet.pdf

Goodness, I didn't realise there was a meter involved, I guess that's why they lock it. Joey_the_lips has the right idea then! .... contact the company and see how to get the cover off.

Joey the lips · 10-01-2010 7:00pm

Zen65 wrote: »

Goodness, I didn't realise there was a meter involved, I guess that's why they lock it. Joey_the_lips has the right idea then! .... contact the company and see how to get the cover off.

If this is a meter box then does this actually mean there is no stop cock in it..... Curious. Surly(Dont call me surly) they would have to fit a stop cock with the meter.....

citizen_p · 10-01-2010 7:13pm

my tp has been dripping the last 2 weeks...... left it off for half an hour by mistake yesterday at around 1 pm, and it nearly froze.

ohh and to stop attic tnks freezing...put a low wattage bulb above them and leave it on......works for friends...
my house is insulated

jimmychin · 10-01-2010 8:06pm

...

jacksey · 11-01-2010 10:24am

Zen65 wrote: »

Yes you can light a fire, as long as the small tank in the attic has water in it. This is the top-up reservoir for your heating system and the level rises & falls as the water in the back-boiler heats & cools.

Check this tank regularly when the fire is on (once every 2 - 3hrs) just to be sure. If the rads suddenly go cold while the fire is on this is also an indicator that your system may have lost water.

Don't presume the pipes to your house are frozen outside... the blockage might be under your sink; use a convector heater to warm the pipes there and see if your supply returns.

Stay warm.

Thanks for replying Zen65 im not so worried now, already had a heater under the sink and i even spent some time with a hairdryer aimed at the incoming pipe so thats why i thought it was from outside. The cars in the driveway didnt freeze last night (thats where the pipe is) so hopefully its coming to an end.

Many thanks again.

RedLedbetter · 11-01-2010 1:09pm

Joey the lips wrote: »

If this is a meter box then does this actually mean there is no stop cock in it..... Curious. Surly(Dont call me surly) they would have to fit a stop cock with the meter.....

I called up IPL this morning (the company that manufacture the WSC-R) and they told me it is probably just jammed, to keep trying.... GREAT! Poured boiling water over it, hit it with the hammer a few times to loosen anything stuck, but still the "key" turns about 45 degrees with no lift from the lid :-( Haven't a clue where to go now???? Any ideas or has anyone actually got the lid off?

This morning our outside tap is running, but is there any way to know if the outside tap is running off the mains directly or off the tank also? Especially now that it looks like I cannot get at the meter/stop-cock.

niallb · 11-01-2010 11:05pm

I've been enjoying this thread.

I've got my few cents to add about the lightbulb thing though.
Of course the lightbulb isn't going to heat the attic that much,
what it does is keep the air moving so that moisture is less likely to freeze on them.

Put your hand near the 100W lightbulb. Don't touch it to see how hot it is.
You'll feel a breeze because air moves from cold to slightly less cold.
This makes the air nearest the pipes move just a little faster, and makes
it just a little less likely for frost to settle on them.

bublehead · 13-01-2010 10:17am

niallb wrote: »

Of course the lightbulb isn't going to heat the attic that much, what it does is keep the air moving so that moisture is less likely to freeze on them.

Put your hand near the 100W lightbulb. Don't touch it to see how hot it is.
You'll feel a breeze because air moves from cold to slightly less cold.
This makes the air nearest the pipes move just a little faster, and makes
it just a little less likely for frost to settle on them.

Frost forms when moisture in the surrounding air hits an object that is cold enough for it to condensate and freeze on. For frost to form on your pipes, they would have to be frozen already.
Normally pipes freeze when the air around them is below zero and absorbs heat from the pipe causing the water to freeze.
The air flow caused by the bulb is interesting. Yes airflow will be caused upwards as the bulb heats surrounding air which rises, sucking cold air up from below. In a situation where a bulb is above the pipes, it pulls cold air up over the pipes before reaching the bulb which heats it. If you consider a situation where the surrounding air is below freezing, you are increasing the flow of cold air over the pipes, which would actually increase the speed the pipes would freeze

On a separate note its interesting, that due to the “non existing” water shortage that some people talked about here, that water pressure has been cut in attempt to save water :mad: The irony is that people like my elderly parents, who heated their house, had proper insulation on their tank/pipes/house etc… and conserved water, now have no water except for the cold kitchen tap. There isn’t enough pressure to pump water to the attic tanks, which means no showers, toilet, washing etc…

Joey the lips · 15-01-2010 6:37pm

RedLedbetter wrote: »

Cheers Zen - actually, here is the specific meter box and cover, I'm dealing with:

http://www.iplgroup.ie/assets/miscmedia/WSC-R%2001%20Spec.%20Sheet.pdf

There is a locking device, I've no key, but the lock is just square shaped and I have something that fits, but it only turns by 45 degrees. I also have a hook bar I can slide into the other opening to lift the lid directly up, but it's not coming, but shifting around as mentioned.

Bought the key. I know the freeze is over but want to be prepared. Took me 5min to take the lid off...took me 40min to get it back on. Its a pain. I finally copped 2 small arrows that must be lined up. Kinda obvious when you know but fooks your head uo when you dont...

Anyway its the new type stopcock key i need...As aposed to the one my mam and dad had 30 years ago....

I am also thinking of opening it again and putting fibre glass in as the freeze cap is gone. But I am afraid I will jinx myself and it will take another 40 min....

joelietz · 26-01-2010 7:11pm

I found leaving the taps on slightly does work but I have to remember each year to shut off the water to my outside garden taps. I forgot to do that this year and that created quite a flood when my outdoor facet popped off due to the pressure of the ice buildup. Not fun!

Get a free insurance quote

Joey the lips wrote: »

Nahh leave the attic door in most modern houses open and half the house will catch pnuemonia.

An easier solution would be to run a 100w bulb up through a hole in the door. Yes this does work...and leave your down stairs tap on a very slow drip. If you are really over concerned.

Adeline Dower · 27-01-2010 6:39pm

DublinWriter wrote: »

A lot of people are now experiencing problems with frozen pipes in their attics.

A simple way to prevent this is to leave your attic door open!

It happened to us this morning. A couple of hours with the heating full on soon fixed the problem.

This will also reduce the chances of pipes bursting and eventually flooding.

I have my attic well insulated and still my pips froz up ,any other tips

iamskippy · 27-01-2010 6:43pm

Adeline Dower wrote: »

I have my attic well insulated and still my pips froz up ,any other tips

Put a fan heater up inside the open attic door. Be careful to place it on something solid not on insulation.

Cold weather tips: Stopping your pipes from freezing

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