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Speculation on Jon & Tyrion's parenthood - non book readers

  • 13-07-2015 5:52pm
    #1
    senordingdong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭


    quad_red wrote: »
    .

    My 50 cents is that Jon isn't Ned's bastard son - he's his bastard nephew. His sister eloped with the targaryen guy and they had a child. After what happened to Elia and her children (getting butchered by the Mountain), Ned claims the baby is his and never tells his Mrs the truth because her hatred just adds credence to the lie that Jon is his bastard son.

    The witch will resurrect Jon and then try and burn him for his royal blood but da-daaa, he won't burn because he's a Targaryen. So Jon Snow will 'die' and with him his oath to the Night's Watch to serve til death. And Jon Targaryen will rise.)

    There is a very well put together FAN theory online that suggests
    that suggests Jon and Tyrion are of Targaryen blood. It goes on to suggest the three Targaryens, atop three dragons (fire), defeating the walker army(ice).


«1

Comments

  • #2
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    Targaryen's aren't immune to fire.

    Certainly Mr Bucket-Of-Gold-On-His-Head seemed very susceptible to heat.


  • #3
    Lyssa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,601 ✭✭✭Lyssa


    DeVore wrote: »
    Targaryen's aren't immune to fire.

    Certainly Mr Bucket-Of-Gold-On-His-Head seemed very susceptible to heat.

    It's the dragon thing I think... Viserys thought he was the last of the dragons, but he wasn't, it was Daenerys. Maybe in this theory, Jon and Tyrion are 'dragons' too?

    I like this theory, would be interesting at least! :)


  • #4
    DarkoT
    Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭DarkoT


    senordingdong wrote: »
    There is a very well put together FAN theory online that suggests
    that suggests Jon and Tyrion are of Targaryen blood. It goes on to suggest the three Targaryens, atop three dragons (fire), defeating the walker army(ice).

    It's just a theory that can't count as a spoiler...


  • #5
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    DeVore wrote: »
    Targaryen's aren't immune to fire.

    Certainly Mr Bucket-Of-Gold-On-His-Head seemed very susceptible to heat.

    To be fair, that wasn't fire. That was a bucket of melted gold on his head! :pac:


  • #6
    OhHiMark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭OhHiMark


    DarkoT wrote: »
    It's just a theory that can't count as a spoiler...

    Stop trying to define what counts as a spoiler. Somebody might not ever have thought of that theory but now it would be in their head, thus not as surprising if it turns out to be true.


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  • #7
    loyatemu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,103 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Don't see how Tyrion can be a Targaryen - his birth is well documented. (also speculating about where the story might go is not spoiling - you might as well close the thread if we can't discuss that).


  • #8
    senordingdong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    loyatemu wrote: »
    Don't see how Tyrion can be a Targaryen - his birth is well documented. (also speculating about where the story might go is not spoiling - you might as well close the thread if we can't discuss that).

    Perhaps, but some people are very sensitive about the matter so I think spikey tags is the best course.

    As for
    Tyrion, it was suggested that Mrs. Lannister was with the mad King, either by choice or not, and this is part and parcel of why Tywin hates him so much.

    Gonna go look for the link now...

    Couldn't find the exact one but going another one which is very close, bit with one or two differences.
    These theories are largely based on details that are omitted from the show...

    http://www.cracked.com/article_21478_6-insane-but-convincing-game-thrones-fan-theories.html


  • #9
    wp_rathead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,071 ✭✭✭✭wp_rathead


    senordingdong wrote: »
    Perhaps, but some people are very sensitive about the matter so I think spikey tags is the best course.

    As for
    Tyrion, it was suggested that Mrs. Lannister was with the mad King, either by choice or not, and this is part and parcel of why Tywin hates him so much.

    Gonna go look for the link now...

    Couldn't find the exact one but going another one which is very close, bit with one or two differences.
    These theories are largely based on details that are omitted from the show...

    http://www.cracked.com/article_21478_6-insane-but-convincing-game-thrones-fan-theories.html

    If they based on details that are omitted from the show then they probably shouldn't be in Non-book readers labeled thread..

    Edit: apologies didn't notice you had it spoiler tagged, I must've touched it on my phone by mistake ha


  • #10
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    wp_rathead wrote: »
    If they based on details that are omitted from the show then they probably shouldn't be in Non-book readers labeled thread..

    Edit: apologies didn't notice you had it spoiler tagged, I must've touched it on my phone by mistake ha
    I guess you have a point, but I saw the video around the end of season 5 and to be fair, the book parts it mention don't really spoil much of anything, it's more just a matter of the show not being able to fit some bits into its 10-hour seasonal time budget. Kind of like how they merged a few characters together so that where there are 2 characters in the the book, they are combined to just be one character in the show.

    Basically there is book stuff in there, but nothing I would consider a spoiler or would warn a non book reader (like me!) to avoid.


  • #11
    duploelabs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,699 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    In a rant against tyrion in the show, tywin does say that he can't prove that tyrion isn't his son which means he doubts his lineage


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  • #12
    GerB40
    Registered Users Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭GerB40


    duploelabs wrote: »
    In a rant against tyrion in the show, tywin does say that he can't prove that tyrion isn't his son which means he doubts his lineage

    I thought he said that in anger as if to say "if I could prove you weren't mine you'd be dead".


  • #13
    senordingdong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    GerB40 wrote: »
    I thought he said that in anger as if to say "if I could prove you weren't mine you'd be dead".

    Can be written off as such yes. But also, something was said about
    the mad king, taking bedding rights after Tywin & Joannas wedding. Another part alludes to a botched abortion, which deformed Tyrion and killed Joanna

    Seems there are alot of seemingly insignificant lines throughout the story, that only when pieced together make sense.
    The decision to include some in the show, and not others though
    ..


  • #14
    quad_red
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,561 ✭✭✭quad_red


    senordingdong wrote: »
    There is a very well put together FAN theory online that suggests
    that suggests Jon and Tyrion are of Targaryen blood. It goes on to suggest the three Targaryens, atop three dragons (fire), defeating the walker army(ice).
    Tyrion!?!?! Wow. Never considered that. The wee man atop a dragon - epic.

    Can't speak to what the books day but I don't think the series ever pre figured that Tyrion was illegitimate.

    Always presumed that Bran would warg into Drogon and that would control him. But clearly Dany can control him. Sort of.


  • #15
    Pepe LeFrits
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 15,001 ✭✭✭✭Pepe LeFrits


    DeVore wrote: »
    Targaryen's aren't immune to fire.

    Certainly Mr Bucket-Of-Gold-On-His-Head seemed very susceptible to heat.
    Also, Jon burnt his hand in season 1 saving Lord Commander Mormont from a zombie.


  • #16
    OneOfThem Stumbled
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 934 ✭✭✭OneOfThem Stumbled


    DeVore wrote: »
    Targaryen's aren't immune to fire.

    Certainly Mr Bucket-Of-Gold-On-His-Head seemed very susceptible to heat.

    Maybe it's a recessive gene? :pac:


  • #17
    senordingdong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    Indeed. They are only 'half' Targaryen.


  • #18
    2ndcoming
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,573 ✭✭✭2ndcoming


    senordingdong wrote: »
    Indeed. They are only 'half' Targaryen.

    Rhaegar, Viserys and Daenerys are full Targaryen. They're father the Mad King Aerys was married to his sister Rhaella.


  • #19
    quad_red
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,561 ✭✭✭quad_red


    Pepe LeFrits wrote: »
    Also, Jon burnt his hand in season 1 saving Lord Commander Mormont from a zombie.

    Doesn't show that on the show? Is that in the books?



  • #20
    senordingdong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    2ndcoming wrote: »
    Rhaegar, Viserys and Daenerys are full Targaryen. They're father the Mad King Aerys was married to his sister Rhaella.

    I meant John and Tyrion.


  • #21
    Witcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,638 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    quad_red wrote: »
    Doesn't show that on the show? Is that in the books?


    His scream and the fact that his hand is bandaged when he gets his new sword from Mormont is pretty good proof he was burned.


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  • #22
    duploelabs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,699 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Targaryens aren't immune to fire, yes they have a higher tolerance as demonstrated by Dany and the bath and the egg on the fire in the first couple of episodes, but the reason why she didn't burn when the funeral pyre was lit for drogo was because the blood magic was still in effect.


  • #23
    Thargor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,964 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    senordingdong wrote: »
    Can be written off as such yes. But also, something was said about the mad king, taking bedding rights after Tywin & Joannas wedding. Another part alludes to a botched abortion, which deformed Tyrion and killed Joanna

    Seems there are alot of seemingly insignificant lines throughout the story, that only when pieced together make sense.
    The decision to include some in the show, and not others though
    ..
    What bedding/first night rights by the mad king? what botched abortion killing Tywins wife and deforming Tyrion (turned him into a dwarf?)?

    If its not in the books its just Reddit BS and not a spoiler...

    There is zero foreshadowing of anything about Tyrion being a Targaryan in the books, he's pure Lannister, as smart as Tywin more than any of the other Lannisters.


  • #24
    DarkoT
    Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭DarkoT


    Why everyone are covering their posts for spoilers, when all this is just a theory?


  • #25
    senordingdong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    Thargor wrote: »
    What bedding/first night rights by the mad king? what botched abortion killing Tywins wife and deforming Tyrion (turned him into a dwarf?)?

    If its not in the books its just Reddit BS and not a spoiler...

    There is zero foreshadowing of anything about Tyrion being a Targaryan in the books, he's pure Lannister, as smart as Tywin more than any of the other Lannisters.

    http://www.cracked.com/article_21478_6-insane-but-convincing-game-thrones-fan-theories_p5.html


  • #26
    Thargor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,964 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    senordingdong wrote: »
    http://www.cracked.com/article_21478_6-insane-but-convincing-game-thrones-fan-theories_p5.html
    Nah thats not enough, Tyrion is the youngest, the Mad King would have fathered Jamie and Cersei if he'd done anything at the bedding.

    Love the theory about Varys being a Merman though :D


  • #27
    senordingdong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    I quite like the Bolton vampire story.


  • #28
    bnt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,031 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    The possibility that Jon isn't Ned's son is a speculation I'd read somewhere before - possibly here, but hadn't taken too seriously, and then forgot. However, io9 has a spoilerish piece here that suggests the next series has a flashback to Jon's birth, when we find out who his mother is:
    Ned Stark's sister Lyanna
    . My first response to that was to think that Jon would find he has something in common with the Lannisters. :pac:

    Death has this much to be said for it:
    You don’t have to get out of bed for it.
    Wherever you happen to be
    They bring it to you—free.

    — Kingsley Amis



  • #29
    duploelabs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,699 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    This is an edit of what's appeared in the show of clues to Jon's parentage (not embedding because of spoilers)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xaspBsfgRg


  • #30
    Paddy Samurai
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,014 ✭✭✭Paddy Samurai


    Yeah its looking like the 3 Dragon Riders will be..

    Jon Snow(Targaryen) ,Tyrion Lannister and Daenerys Targaryen.


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  • #31
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    That mad king did some amount of milking outside the bucket in fairness.


  • #32
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Paddy Samurai wrote: »
    Yeah its looking like the 3 Dragon Riders will be..

    Jon Snow(Targaryen) ,Tyrion Lannister and Daenerys Targaryen.

    Maybe dragons are like horses, prefer the smaller jockey

    Tyrion Dettori 6/1


  • #33
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Bambi wrote: »
    Maybe dragons are like horses, prefer the smaller jockey

    Tyrion Dettori 6/1
    Certainly makes his comment about always wanting a dragon, "even a little one like me", from last week a little more interesting...


  • #34
    loveisdivine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭loveisdivine


    I'd always assumed Bran would warg into one of the dragons, but the above could make sense too.


  • #35
    duploelabs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,699 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Bambi wrote: »
    That mad king did some amount of milking outside the bucket in fairness.

    He's no Bobby 'Big Balls' Baratheon


  • #36
    Thargor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,964 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    Problem is Tyrion is younger than Jamie and Cercei, there has been zero reference to the Mad King playing away with Tywins wife apart from the "taking liberties" bit at the bedding part of her and Tywins wedding, but obviously if that was referring to an affair he'd be Jamies and Cerceis father not Tyrion.


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  • #37
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    loyatemu wrote: »
    Don't see how Tyrion can be a Targaryen - his birth is well documented. (also speculating about where the story might go is not spoiling - you might as well close the thread if we can't discuss that).

    Birth being documented isn't conception being documented


  • #38
    Thargor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,964 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    Its a non-runner, it hasnt been sign-posted at all, remember Tywins speech about not being able to drown Tyrion because he was his son and a Lannister? GRRM is not going to turn around and say "Oh yeah Tyrion was a Targaryan all along lol" after presenting zero evidence for it. All Tyrions descriptions paint him as a deformed Lannister, he has absolutely zero Targaryan features. You could pick literally any other character and there would be as much evidence for them being a Targaryan as there is for Tyrion.


  • #39
    Grudaire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭Grudaire


    Thargor wrote: »
    Problem is Tyrion is younger than Jamie and Cercei, there has been zero reference to the Mad King playing away with Tywins wife apart from the "taking liberties" bit at the bedding part of her and Tywins wedding, but obviously if that was referring to an affair he'd be Jamies and Cerceis father not Tyrion.

    Any thoughts on Cersie and Jaime being Targarions... The incest.. Mild madness..


  • #40
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    Grudaire wrote: »
    Any thoughts on Cersie and Jaime being Targarions... The incest.. Mild madness..

    the two blonde sibling fcukers?
    lol


  • #41
    duffman13
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,025 ✭✭✭duffman13


    Thargor wrote: »
    Its a non-runner, it hasnt been sign-posted at all, remember Tywins speech about not being able to drown Tyrion because he was his son and a Lannister? GRRM is not going to turn around and say "Oh yeah Tyrion was a Targaryan all along lol" after presenting zero evidence for it. All Tyrions descriptions paint him as a deformed Lannister, he has absolutely zero Targaryan features. You could pick literally any other character and there would be as much evidence for them being a Targaryan as there is for Tyrion.

    I agree Tyrion describes himself as a deformed Lannister but in the first book I could help but notice they made reference to his hair being white gold I think whereas as Cersei and Jaime had golden locks. It's a tough one but the clues and hints are there but nowhere near the same extent as Jon. We can take a lot ambiguous lines and make a case for it, Tyrion has a massive fascination with dragons and can speak old Valyerian but I don't know how his true Lineage would come out even if there was any credibility to the theory.


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  • #42
    maudgonner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭maudgonner


    Grudaire wrote: »
    Any thoughts on Cersie and Jaime being Targarions... The incest.. Mild madness..


    It would be funny if Tywin's only child was the one he would love to have disowned, most of the time.

    I miss Tywin, is it too late to resurrect him? :(


  • #43
    JustShon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭JustShon


    maudgonner wrote: »
    It would be funny if Tywin's only child was the one he would love to have disowned, most of the time.

    I miss Tywin, is it too late to resurrect him? :(

    You'd have some job trying to convince Mellissandre to ressurect a Lannister :pac:

    "Look, seeing as how Stannis is dead now, maybe you could do us a favour..."


  • #44
    SureYWouldntYa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,772 ✭✭✭SureYWouldntYa


    maudgonner wrote: »
    It would be funny if Tywin's only child was the one he would love to have disowned, most of the time.

    I miss Tywin, is it too late to resurrect him? :(

    I hope Tywin has an identical twin brother, who also happens to have the same traits and personality

    Is it too much to ask for more Charles Dance ?


  • #45
    maudgonner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭maudgonner


    SureYWouldntYa wrote: »
    I hope Tywin has an identical twin brother, who also happens to have the same traits and personality

    Is it too much to ask for more Charles Dance ?

    My favourite Tywin scenes were when he was with Arya. So maybe Jaqen H'ghar or another faceless man could take on the face (and everything else) of Tywin.

    A man could do this much for us, surely :)


  • #46
    Sleepy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,268 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    The scenes Tywin and Arya shared were without doubt, the absolute highlight of the shows divergences from the books. They were excellent scenes and showed just how good an actress Maisie Williams is when she proved she could hold her own against a veteran of the RSC. I absolutely loved them. It's a shame they haven't fared so well on all of their departures from the source material!


  • #47
    Markcheese
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,560 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Just because tyrion is a lannister doesnt mean theres not a bit of targarion blood in his lineage somewhere, ( they didnt all exclusively shag their siblings, )
    So him ending up on a dragons not that far fetched...
    ( and not all targarions were dragon riders... the dragon liked you or didnt)

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • #48
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Suffice to say that season 6 has confirmed Jon's lineage?

    Tryion is still up for grabs, but the dragons fondness for him implies some Valerian connection.


  • #49
    Grudaire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭Grudaire


    SureYWouldntYa wrote: »
    I hope Tywin has an identical twin brother, who also happens to have the same traits and personality

    Is it too much to ask for more Charles Dance ?

    Kevan just needs more screen time


  • #50
    TCDStudent1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,019 ✭✭✭TCDStudent1


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    Suffice to say that season 6 has confirmed Jon's lineage?

    .

    Eh, how??? I must've missed something?


  • #51
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    TCDStudent1 wrote: »
    Eh, how??? I must've missed something?

    The flashback fight between young Ned Stark & the 2 members of the kings guard.

    The kings son had kidnapped Ned's sister and imprisoned her in that tower.. (we heard her scream & Ned asking where she is)....

    The long held assumption being that that Prince Rahegar fathered a child with Lyanna Stark after kidnapping her & this is Jon.
    Lyanna died & it is supposed that Ned brought this boy to Winterfell on the pretense that it was his own bastard child.

    Hence the R+L=J theory

    TBH, I think this also holds weight because if Jon is half Targaryen, he's the nephew of Denerys & could well be an ally.
    (Handy way to avoid the certain war between the North/Starks & Danny when she eventually gets to Westeros)


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