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Alleged Homophobic Attack in Spar Dame Street, Reaction!

2

Comments

  • #52
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    Chorcai wrote: »
    As a gay man, I don't go chewing the face off my other half in Spar or on the street etc, why would I want to bring trouble on myself, society has just about accepted homosexuality, where did common sense go ?

    They should have expected trouble but still don't deserve it.


  • #53
    orestes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,972 ✭✭✭orestes


    rochey84 wrote: »
    Secondly yes I have intervened and will continue to be that getting involved in the fight to protect the person being assaulted or calling the garda, or simply looking after the victim after the attack, the sexuality of the victim was not an issue in any of these cases as they seemed to be straight forward muggings in Dublin city centre

    So their sexuality wasn't an issue because they were straight? Heterophobe :mad:


  • #54
    Handsome Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    This came out last week, one of the lads involved posted it on Spar's Facebook page. If I remember rightly, Spar's official line is that their security are independently contracted but they were looking into it all the same.


  • #55
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    Nah I think same-sex couples should be able to snog in public, the same way hetero couples can.
    rochey84 wrote: »
    First off apologies
    Cool.


  • #56
    Praetorian Saighdiuir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭Praetorian Saighdiuir


    S. De Sousa wrote: »
    This came out last week,

    LOLOLOLOLOLOL

    Il be doin this all night.


  • #57
    rochey84
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭rochey84


    There are posts on here (forgive me I don't know how to multi-quote) that are basically saying that in 2013 a gay couple have to be afraid to be affectionate in public, that is the point of this whole thread, while I know this to be fact, I wish it wasn't and that is the reasoning behind this thread!

    I know that this thread is emotive and I know that I have used a lot of emotive words throughout my OP and my posts here in general and I'm not gonna apologise because I want the same status as my friends and family who can openly show their partners affection in public!

    I ask anyone who disagrees with this to walk a mile in the shoes of a gay person!


  • #58
    Fr_Dougal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,166 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    OP your initial post does more damage to the cause you're trying to champion than it does good. Next time, think before you post.


  • #59
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 54,110 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I personally hate all public showings of excessive affection. There is a time and a place.

    That being said, if you substitute the fact that this was 2 guys for a heterosexual couple would this have made the news? Of course not.


  • #60
    1ZRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    Madam_X wrote: »
    Nah I think same-sex couples should be able to snog in public, the same way hetero couples can.
    Well I'd agree with that. If it was just a kiss and not them shifting the face off each other, and the latter was frowned on to both gay and straight people then I don't see a problem with that and they should've been told to pack it in.

    He shouldn't have called them "fagg0ts" that should "take it to the George" as the original story I read stated, though. That's the only fault I can find with the story, tbh.

    I won't comment on the assault because it's all accusations from the opposing sides as of yet.


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  • #61
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    Blay wrote: »

    Why the would someone call the guards?

    If I was in a shop kissing a girl and security came along and said 'get out ya pair of straight fcukers' and he pushed us out the door I wouldn't go crying to the guards. FFS you have a chin for a reason...take things on it.


    ^^ This.

    Quite a ridiculous over-reaction OP and the lazy copy and paste job was just as bad as the "Kony 2012" "I'll never shop in spar again!" idiots.

    I've seen a lot worse examples of gay bashing and homophobia than two lads told get the fcuk out for PDA in a convenience store.

    I was actually going to say the right thing to do would have been to complain to the manager, but then I figured- how would you even phrase that?

    "Excuse me, I'd like to make a complaint about your security staff making homophobic remarks at us while we were playing tonsil tennis in your store! I'm outraged!".

    If I was the store manager I'd have just told them cop the fcuk on!

    Pick your battles OP is all I'm saying, or else people will fail to take you seriously when you actually have a legitimate complaint.


  • #62
    phoenix999
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 581 ✭✭✭phoenix999


    rochey84 wrote: »
    There are posts on here (forgive me I don't know how to multi-quote) that are basically saying that in 2013 a gay couple have to be afraid to be affectionate in public, that is the point of this whole thread, while I know this to be fact, I wish it wasn't and that is the reasoning behind this thread!

    I know that this thread is emotive and I know that I have used a lot of emotive words throughout my OP and my posts here in general and I'm not gonna apologise because I want the same status as my friends and family who can openly show their partners affection in public!

    I ask anyone who disagrees with this to walk a mile in the shoes of a gay person!

    Well affection and holding hands is one thing. But I certainly wouldn't be happy waiting in the shop line with children while these two guys decide to play tonsil tennis in front of us (or a str8 couple either). Do it on the bloody street. That's fine with me.


  • #63
    doubleyoubee
    Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭doubleyoubee


    rochey84 wrote: »

    I ask anyone who disagrees with this to walk a mile in the shoes of a gay person!

    Okay, but there's no way I'm wearing that scarf.


  • #64
    rochey84
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭rochey84


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    OP your initial post does more damage to the cause you're trying to champion than it does good. Next time, think before you post.


    If that's the case, then please enlighten us as to how we go about changing this, how we go about reaching equal status in more than just law?

    I have accepted that my OP is emotive and maybe a little too much but it is genuinely how I feel, it deeply upsets me that if 2 members of the same sex show affection in public they leave themselves open to abuse, and intervention and education I believe is the key. I don't know how to voice this opinion any other way!


  • #65
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    rochey84 wrote: »
    There are posts on here (forgive me I don't know how to multi-quote) that are basically saying that in 2013 a gay couple have to be afraid to be affectionate in public, that is the point of this whole thread, while I know this to be fact, I wish it wasn't and that is the reasoning behind this thread!

    I know that this thread is emotive and I know that I have used a lot of emotive words throughout my OP and my posts here in general and I'm not gonna apologise because I want the same status as my friends and family who can openly show their partners affection in public!

    I ask anyone who disagrees with this to walk a mile in the shoes of a gay person!

    Which part do you still feel strongly about?
    I think everyone agrees that a gay couple shouldn't have to show digression in public. But it is clear that it would be unwise not to hold back a bit for your own safety. In the same way as I don't wear my Celtic top walking through East Belfast.


  • #66
    orestes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,972 ✭✭✭orestes


    rochey84 wrote: »
    There are posts on here (forgive me I don't know how to multi-quote) that are basically saying that in 2013 a gay goth couple have to be afraid to be affectionate in public, that is the point of this whole thread, while I know this to be fact, I wish it wasn't and that is the reasoning behind this thread!

    I know that this thread is emotive and I know that I have used a lot of emotive words throughout my OP and my posts here in general and I'm not gonna apologise because I want the same status as my friends and family who can openly show their partners affection in public!

    I ask anyone who disagrees with this to walk a mile in the shoes of a gay goth person!

    Those poor goths :(


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  • #67
    daRobot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭daRobot


    rochey84 wrote: »


    If that's the case, then please enlighten us as to how we go about changing this, how we go about reaching equal status in more than just law?

    I have accepted that my OP is emotive and maybe a little too much but it is genuinely how I feel, it deeply upsets me that if 2 members of the same sex show affection in public they leave themselves open to abuse, and intervention and education I believe is the key. I don't know how to voice this opinion any other way!

    Good luck with your crusade.


  • #68
    Fr_Dougal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,166 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    rochey84 wrote: »
    If that's the case, then please enlighten us as to how we go about changing this, how we go about reaching equal status in more than just law?

    I have accepted that my OP is emotive and maybe a little too much but it is genuinely how I feel, it deeply upsets me that if 2 members of the same sex show affection in public they leave themselves open to abuse, and intervention and education I believe is the key. I don't know how to voice this opinion any other way!

    Well first of all you say that straight people who don't jump up and down at this incident when you say so are as bad as the perpetrators and then you go on to say that if it takes physical violence to solve this then so be it.

    Can you not see a problem with that?


  • #69
    rochey84
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭rochey84


    fasttalkerchat wrote: »
    Which part do you still feel strongly about?
    I think everyone agrees that a gay couple shouldn't have to show digression in public. But it is clear that it would be unwise not to hold back a bit for your own safety. In the same way as I don't wear my Celtic top walking through East Belfast.

    My OP was on the back of that alleged particular incident, the part I feel strongly about is achieveing, both legally and socially, full equality where if I want to kiss my same sex partner good bye on the street or in the queue in the shop (I'm talking about a kiss and not going over board) that I shouldn't feel intimidated or afraid of who is watching!


  • #70
    rochey84
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭rochey84


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    Well first of all you say that straight people who don't jump up and down at this incident when you say so are as bad as the perpetrators and then you go on to say that if it takes physical violence to solve this then so be it.

    Can you not see a problem with that?

    Have you not seen my apology for the overly emotive language of the OP, and even retracting my call to violence?

    And again I've said all intervention required is to make a FREE phone call, is that too much?


  • #71
    Witcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,640 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    rochey84 wrote: »
    If that's the case, then please enlighten us as to how we go about changing this, how we go about reaching equal status in more than just law?

    I have accepted that my OP is emotive and maybe a little too much but it is genuinely how I feel, it deeply upsets me that if 2 members of the same sex show affection in public they leave themselves open to abuse, and intervention and education I believe is the key. I don't know how to voice this opinion any other way!

    If a gay man called me a 'straight bastard' the words would pass right through me, they're only words FFS. How does a gay person being called a f*ggot actually affect them? Gay people are a minority and as such will experience this, they'll have to learn to roll with the punches..he's not rounding you up and shipping you off to a death camp.


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  • #72
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    my wrist has gone significantly limp reading this thread.


  • #73
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    rochey84 wrote: »
    all intervention required is to make a FREE phone call, is that too much?
    You keep saying this as if you're certain nobody in Spar did so, and nobody here would do so. Where has anyone indicated they wouldn't call the guards? Where is the proof people in Spar didn't call the guards?


  • #74
    rochey84
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭rochey84


    Blay wrote: »
    If a gay man called me a 'straight bastard' the words would pass right through me, they're only words FFS. Gay people are a minority and as such will experience this, they'll have to learn to roll with the punches..he's not rounding you up and shipping you off to a death camp.

    The word allegedly used was "******ts" and my own research has shown that the reason this word is considered offensive is because back when they were burning women at the stake for being witches, they were also burning gays to death but gays weren't worthy of a stake so they were burned over ******ts hence the offensive term "flaming ******ts"

    Call me a gay bastard all you like but don't call me a "******" or a "queer" cause I am neither a bunch of sticks used for kindling or strange or unusual, well at least no more than anyone else in this world!


  • #75
    1ZRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    awec wrote: »
    I personally hate all public showings of excessive affection. There is a time and a place.

    That being said, if you substitute the fact that this was 2 guys for a heterosexual couple would this have made the news? Of course not.
    But would it have been as big an issue, though? You have to think of it that way, would two straight people be thrown straight out or would they be just told to hold some discretion? I think it was the fact that it was two lads that they were told to get out straight away and not given a warning.

    I've even seen it myself on one occasion where two lads were kissing harmlessly for a bit, and not shifting, and they were asked to stop whereas the few straight couples, who were doing pretty much the same thing, weren't asked to stop.

    You have to realise that there are often double standards between gay and straight PDAs and ofc. this wouldn't have made the news either had it not been for the fact that he called them "fagg0ts" which brought a discriminatory element to things.


  • #76
    PhlegmyMoses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,906 ✭✭✭✭PhlegmyMoses


    Madam_X wrote: »
    You keep saying this as if you're certain nobody in Spar did so, and nobody here would do so. Where has anyone indicated they wouldn't call the guards? Where is the proof people in Spar didn't call the guards?

    More importantly, even if they didn't, it doesn't make them somehow culpable or homophobia enablers or accepting. Loads of people are just too scared to do anything in those situations. They also expect someone else to do something. There's loads of studies done on this kind of group acceptance thing.


  • #77
    rochey84
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭rochey84


    Madam_X wrote: »
    You keep saying this as if you're certain nobody in Spar did so, and nobody here would do so. Where has anyone indicated they wouldn't call the guards? Where is the proof people in Spar didn't call the guards?

    My point as I have kept saying is that on the back of the incident in the Spar, I'm not talking specifically about that alleged incident, I don't know the facts but the allegations did get me thinking!


  • #78
    orestes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,972 ✭✭✭orestes


    rochey84 wrote: »
    My point as I have kept saying is that on the back of the incident in the Spar, I'm not talking specifically about that alleged incident, I don't know the facts but the allegations did get me thinking!

    Bloody hell.


  • #79
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    rochey84 wrote: »
    My point as I have kept saying is that on the back of the incident in the Spar, I'm not talking specifically about that alleged incident, I don't know the facts but the allegations did get me thinking!

    You are also making the assumption that all the by-standers in the shop were 'straight'


  • #80
    Fr_Dougal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,166 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    rochey84 wrote: »
    Call me a gay bastard all you like but don't call me a "******" or a "queer" cause I am neither a bunch of sticks used for kindling or strange or unusual, well at least no more than anyone else in this world!

    From your posts you don't sound all that 'gay' either!


  • #81
    Witcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,640 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Unless I was 100% certain I was going to come out of it in one piece I wouldn't get involved in any violent situation out on the streets.

    I know people that have stepped in and in one case one of the attackers produced a knife..so it may look like you're stepping into a fistfight you could win but would you win against a knife? That's what you have to be thinking.


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  • #82
    rochey84
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭rochey84


    Boombastic wrote: »
    You are also making the assumption that all the by-standers in the shop were 'straight'

    You're right my OP does give that impression, thank you for giving more to think about!

    On reflection given the stores location and the time of night of this particular alleged incident that got me thinking in the first place, it would have been a majority LGBT by-standers I would imagine!


  • #83
    rochey84
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭rochey84


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    From your posts you don't sound all that 'gay' either!

    In most aspects of my life I'm very happy, it's amazing how social intolerance and my reaction to it can give a totally different image of me when I am normally easy going and happy! Ah well!


  • #84
    orestes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,972 ✭✭✭orestes


    rochey84 wrote: »
    You're right my OP does give that impression, thank you for giving more to think about!

    On reflection given the stores location and the time of night of this particular alleged incident that got me thinking in the first place, it would have been a majority LGBT by-standers I would imagine!

    Judging by this thread it doesn't like you have done much thinking about this at all.


  • #85
    rochey84
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭rochey84


    orestes wrote: »
    Judging by this thread it doesn't like you have done much thinking about this at all.

    And ironically judging by this thread, you seem to have a problem with me! you have kept quoting my posts and changing "gay" to "goth" despite me saying that when I see **** happening I have often intervened, albeit most times calling the garda!

    It is my intervention that made me think of why it feels like people casually allow homophobic beatings to continue, but then again I could be wrong!


  • #86
    tdv123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭tdv123


    How do we know they were homosexuals in the first place?
    What if they were just 2 heterosexual guys experimenting with each other?


  • #87
    rochey84
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭rochey84


    tdv123 wrote: »
    How do we know they were homosexuals in the first place?
    What if they were just 2 heterosexual guys experimenting with each other?

    Well the admission from the 2 guys themselves would tell us that they were gay but your point in general stands!


  • #88
    1ZRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    tdv123 wrote: »
    How do we know they were homosexuals in the first place?
    What if they were just 2 heterosexual guys experimenting with each other?
    They went in to buy a bottle of baileys. There's just no arguing with that.


  • #89
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    rochey84 wrote: »
    The word allegedly used was "******ts" and my own research has shown that the reason this word is considered offensive is because back when they were burning women at the stake for being witches, they were also burning gays to death but gays weren't worthy of a stake so they were burned over ******ts hence the offensive term "flaming ******ts"

    Call me a gay bastard all you like but don't call me a "******" or a "queer" cause I am neither a bunch of sticks used for kindling or strange or unusual, well at least no more than anyone else in this world!

    What the fúck is a flaming ******ts?
    Its times like these you really need to put some accents in your words!


  • #90
    orestes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,972 ✭✭✭orestes


    rochey84 wrote: »
    And ironically judging by this thread, you seem to have a problem with me! you have kept quoting my posts and changing "gay" to "goth" despite me saying that when I see **** happening I have often intervened, albeit most times calling the garda!

    It is my intervention that made me think of why it feels like people casually allow homophobic beatings to continue, but then again I could be wrong!

    I don't have a problem with you, I just think your position and the way you have gone about trying to make your point are ill-informed hysterical nonsense. Nothing personal about it, it's simply discussion of the subject at hand.

    Ok, a gay couple were apparently abused by a security guard. You used this isolated incident to accuse the entire population of Ireland of being homophobic or complicit in homophobic discrimination, even going so far as to call for violence in a quest for equality. When other people made reasonable observations about your position you started posting tabloid-style hysterics about gay people not being able to show each other affection in public without getting abused.

    I changed the word gay to goth to illustrate the point that people who are different are going to get shit, that an entire population shouldn't be judged on the basis of a small minority of fukkwits. Or do you not think goths should get treated decently by others too?

    EDIT: Just saw your edit, have you anything to back up your claim that gay beatings still casually occur?


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  • #91
    rochey84
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭rochey84


    fasttalkerchat wrote: »
    What the fúck is a flaming ******ts?
    Its times like these you really need to put some accents in your words!

    Apolgies but it's kinda funny that boards even see it as an offensive word!!

    The word I was saying is "fággotts"


  • #92
    Ruudi_Mentari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,801 ✭✭✭Ruudi_Mentari


    My reaction would be to attack them back


  • #93
    rochey84
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭rochey84


    orestes wrote: »
    I don't have a problem with you, I just think your position and the way you have gone about trying to make your point are ill-informed hysterical nonsense. Nothing personal about it, it's simply discussion of the subject at hand.

    Ok, a gay couple were apparently abused by a security guard. You used this isolated incident to accuse the entire population of Ireland of being homophobic or complicit in homophobic discrimination, even going so far as to call for violence in a quest for equality. When other people made reasonable observations about your position you started posting tabloid-style hysterics about gay people not being able to show each other affection in public without getting abused.

    I changed the word gay to goth to illustrate the point that people who are different are going to get shit, that an entire population shouldn't be judged on the basis of a small minority of fukkwits. Or do you not think goths should get equal rights too?

    The reason I think it's been personal is I have at least twice apologised for inciting violence! Also this isolated incident is just one of many "isolated incidents" and anyone claiming otherwise is plain simply wrong!

    Also if you had read my posts which I don't think you have is that I have repeatedly said that I personally have intervened! So I'm for equal rights for everyone but you just seem to be content to ignore that and claim that I'm just being hysterical!

    Go for it man, anymore inaccurate claims about me you wanna throw my way?

    Unfortunately the only evidence I have is anecdotal from friends that I'm sure you'll understand I won't name on this as they have already been through enough!


  • #94
    0066ad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 314 ✭✭0066ad


    After reading this thread, I am convinced that the op must have been one of
    the two guys in spar that night ;)


  • #95
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    rochey84 wrote: »
    Apolgies but it's kinda funny that boards even see it as an offensive word!!

    The word I was saying is "fággotts"

    Ah, should be with one T.


  • #96
    rochey84
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭rochey84


    0066ad wrote: »
    After reading this thread, I am convinced that the op must have been one of
    the two guys in spar that night ;)

    Amazing! This post proves that you shouldn't jump to conclusions! I was not one of the 2 lads but if I had of been I would not have stood for the language or physical attack either!


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  • #97
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    fasttalkerchat wrote: »
    Ah, should be with one T.

    And a big ''A''


  • #98
    0066ad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 314 ✭✭0066ad


    rochey84 wrote: »
    Amazing! This post proves that you shouldn't jump to conclusions! I was not one of the 2 lads but if I had of been I would not have stood for the language or physical attack either!


    Right back at you.


  • #99
    StinkyMunkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭StinkyMunkey


    Regardless of the motivation behind the attack, people will not get involved because they fear for there own safety.

    The ****tards who attacked these guys used their sexual orientation as an excuse to justify to themselves why they should attack in the first place. I have no doubt the same scum would just as easily attack you for being of a different race, because you have red hair, because they don't like the way you have your hair styled etc etc.....

    I say once they are caught, bring them out and publicly flog them. I'm sick of hearing stories like this, these filth need to be made an example if.


  • #100
    srm23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭srm23


    Blay wrote: »
    Unless I was 100% certain I was going to come out of it in one piece I wouldn't get involved in any violent situation out on the streets.

    I know people that have stepped in and in one case one of the attackers produced a knife..so it may look like you're stepping into a fistfight you could win but would you win against a knife? That's what you have to be thinking.

    them spar security guards are crafty bastards!


  • #101
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    StinkyMunkey wrote: »
    I have no doubt the same scum would just as easily attack you for being of a different race, because you have red hair, because they don't like the way you have your hair styled etc etc.....

    .

    Finally.


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