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Politcs:Scofflaw - Appeal Infraction for saying " I said Communist not Communism."

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  • 19-07-2014 11:28am
    #1
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭


    I asked him a couple of days ago if it was a mistake. No response.

    The comment in the title is the post in full.
    Here is the link:http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91319757&postcount=1378
    Officially the stated reason for the disciplining is ignoring mod instruction.

    Many thanks for your time in advance.


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    #2
    Taltos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,830 ✭✭✭✭Taltos


    OK Brown Bomber

    I am taking your attempt to ask if it was a mistake as the first step in the appeals process so I will step in here.

    I'll be straight up - Scofflaw's infraction in my view was not a mistake.
    Also to be frank this is the second time I have been called in to deal with an issue on a post involving the same historical figure. The fact that we seem to be dancing the same dance here yet again and that the mod instruction around this in Politics isn't getting through really concerns me.

    It's either
    a) You don't get it
    b) You are ignoring it and are acting the fool
    c) Something else is going on here.

    Before I give my decision on the infraction I am going to reach out to the mods there to see if it's c).

    Please bear with me while I dig into this further. If I do find there is more to this than just a mistake on your part the same recommendation I gave before will be issued here.


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    #3
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Taltos wrote: »
    OK Brown Bomber

    I am taking your attempt to ask if it was a mistake as the first step in the appeals process so I will step in here.

    I'll be straight up - Scofflaw's infraction in my view was not a mistake.
    Fair enough.

    I think it would be proper to explain why though.
    Taltos wrote: »
    Also to be frank this is the second time I have been called in to deal with an issue on a post involving the same historical figure.
    Not actually relevant though is it? It is two entirely different cases.
    Taltos wrote: »
    The fact that we seem to be dancing the same dance here yet again and that the mod instruction around this in Politics isn't getting through really concerns me.
    There was no mod instruction that I ignored, so I am a little baffled. Also, it would be proper here for you to explain which mod instruction I supposedly ignored and how my comment "I said Communism not Communist" ignored this same mod instruction.

    I won't hold my breath though.

    Taltos wrote: »
    It's either
    a) You don't get it
    b) You are ignoring it and are acting the fool
    c) Something else is going on here.
    d) You don't get it.

    I have been infracted for correcting a misrepresentation of my post. When has this ever been an actionable offense?

    Taltos wrote: »
    Please bear with me while I dig into this further. If I do find there is more to this than just a mistake on your part the same recommendation I gave before will be issued here.
    If it's such an inconvenience for you is there someone else who can actually look into this objectively without referring to non-relevant cases ?


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    #4
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    If it's such an inconvenience for you is there someone else who can actually look into this objectively without referring to non-relevant cases ?
    I'm serious about this. If it such a burden then couldn't somebody else who can apply some level of due dilligence do it?

    I've just read-over one of the dispute resolution threads in question, JimeRyan's and you have confirmed his ban in error (or worse).

    You seconded his banning based on a error.

    You punished him for ignoring a mod instruction that came after the post you were punishing him for.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=91272893

    Jim's post 254. Your justification, mod warning post 256.

    EDIT: Just read Conas' dispute thread and again you erred. You accuse him of posting "misinformation" when he did no such thing.


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    #5
    Taltos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,830 ✭✭✭✭Taltos


    OK - will escalate this to Admin review.


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    #6
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Taltos wrote: »
    OK - will escalate this to Admin review.
    Am I not entitled to CMOD review first?

    EDIT: All the other nonsense aside this is all that really matters as the whether the infraction was just or not.
    it would be proper here for you to explain which mod instruction I supposedly ignored and how my comment "I said Communism not Communist" ignored this same mod instruction.


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    #7
    Taltos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,830 ✭✭✭✭Taltos


    I am the CMOD review - you have rejected that.
    For Politics there are two CMODS.
    > Scofflaw - who infracted you, it is inappropriate for Scofflaw to review their moderation.
    > Me - whose impartiality and ability you have called into question.

    Therefore we are going to the final step - Admin review.


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    #8
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Taltos wrote: »
    I am the CMOD review - you have rejected that.
    For Politics there are two CMODS.
    > Scofflaw - who infracted you, it is inappropriate for Scofflaw to review their moderation.
    > Me - whose impartiality and ability you have called into question.

    Therefore we are going to the final step - Admin review.
    I don't doubt your ability or your impartiality. You gave the impression in the opening post that this was a massive inconvenience to you and you were not going to look into it properly, which is disheartening when you have come to right a wrong.

    What I prefer is for someone to review it who will deal with it in the proper way - attain the facts and then make an informed and objective decision.

    If this is you, then this is fine.

    All I need is answers to below. I'll hold my hand up if you can briefly explain to me the following.
    which mod instruction I supposedly ignored and
    how my comment "I said Communism not Communist" ignored this same mod instruction.

    I mean this is really easy to straighten out. It's black and white.

    Did the post in question ignore any mod warnings?
    If yes:
    how? Which mod warning? If you can provide answers to these questions - which should be all documented and simple to reproduce as evidence then the infraction is justified.

    If no:
    The infraction isn't justified.


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    #9
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Can we "un-admin required" this please?

    I would appreciate CMOD input into this first. I now understand the limitations.


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    #10
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Can we "un-admin required" this please?
    Gladly.


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    #11
    Taltos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,830 ✭✭✭✭Taltos


    Thanks Dades.

    Brown Bomber - let me look at this again for you now. Please give me a bit of time as I have lost track where I was.

    Thanks
    Taltos


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    #12
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Thank you Dades.

    And Taltos,

    We've got off on the wrong foot and on reflection I have done my self a disservice and come across as rude, so I hope you will accept my apology for this.


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    #13
    Taltos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,830 ✭✭✭✭Taltos


    We're fine.
    I just need some extra time and am away tomorrow, will try to get to this one way or another on Monday.

    Thanks and cheers.
    Taltos


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    #14
    Taltos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,830 ✭✭✭✭Taltos


    OK Brown Bomber, sorry for taking so long.

    - in reviewing the thread and the application of the Infraction I have come to the following conclusions.

    1. Infraction - I don't like the post it as assigned to. This post appears like you are merely correcting some grammar, but the bigger request from Scofflaw went unanswered at that time. There is definite merit to the infraction, but I don't like grey areas and so I am going to request it to be removed.

    2. Your ongoing stance in this thread - I recommend you step back for a while, re-read what you have posted, and the posts against you. I am suggesting this because right now (based just on your posts around this period in this thread) I can see you are on a fast track in your stance to getting worse than a red card. Please don't read that as a threat, I don't mod in that forum, just the observation of someone looking in. It might be worthwhile after taking some time to contact the mods (you can PM a few or all) and ask them to help you see where you are going wrong, suggest you do this sooner rather than later.

    Is the above acceptable?
    If it is I'll reverse the infraction, if not I'll request admin review.


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    #15
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    This is most agreeable. Justice has been served. All that remains is to thank you for efforts and to apologise again for me own knee-jerk reaction.

    I felt I had come here with the most clear-cut mistakenly disciplined post that I had witnessed and I wrongly took it from your opening post that you were doubling down and this would be a whitewash. I thought that you were going to excuse the inexcusable, but I was wrong and apologise for my outburst.


This discussion has been closed.
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