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Climote Installed + Feedback

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    #32
    mylesm
    Registered Users Posts: 463 ✭✭mylesm


    gary71 wrote: »
    A higher functioning stat is in my mind a gizmo gadget.

    The heating issues you mentioned are more to do with bad plumbing and home owners not understanding heating controls than a issue with the controls.

    A well balanced system with simplistic controls works very well.

    I think all home owners should take much more interest in how their heating works and fit controls that suit their needs but every installations/home owner is different so everything has its place when fitted correctly.

    Well we will beg to Differ and not looking for any arguement but in my experience the level of control in Ireland is very poor and any system either old boiler or new boiler would be way better with proper Temp control in the zone being heated unless you sense the Temperature in the zone being heated then either overheating or underheating will most likely occur this can be achieved by either Thermostats and the better the stat the better the control or TRVs which in my experience give very poor control

    What people should be aiming for is a Temperature that varies as little as possible from the setpoint

    Simply set the temp to 21 and control it at that but each to their own but my system is 3 Zones and controls perfectly


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    #33
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,776 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    Ronan H wrote: »

    Good looking on/off switch though. Raspberry Pi anyone?!

    Ro

    I went the raspberry pi route. I have set it up so that as the outside temperature (which I get from an api on the web, rather than a sensor) falls, the heating comes on for a longer and longer period.

    If it gets cold enough the heating will run pretty much 24 hours a day.

    I have separate HW and CH. I also have zoned the system really, but I haven't done much on using that for control.

    There is also an internal temperature sensor, but i don't use it to control the heat. This is really because there seems to be a big difference between temperature (which is objective) and comfort (which is basically subjective).

    I now pretty much let it run and don't interact with it very much. I don't have to fiddle with it as I go from season to season and it works well. I have been running it like this for about a year.

    it could do with more features for sure. But it suits my needs.


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    #34
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    mylesm wrote: »
    Well we will beg to Differ and not looking for any arguement but in my experience the level of control in Ireland is very poor and any system either old boiler or new boiler would be way better with proper Temp control in the zone being heated unless you sense the Temperature in the zone being heated then either overheating or underheating will most likely occur this can be achieved by either Thermostats and the better the stat the better the control or TRVs which in my experience give very poor control

    What people should be aiming for is a Temperature that varies as little as possible from the setpoint

    Simply set the temp to 21 and control it at that but each to their own but my system is 3 Zones and controls perfectly

    I am not in disagreement with you in respect of your choice of controls they're very nice and would work well with a climote:D, my point which is probably badly made is that the heating systems you are looking at to determine the success of your own are bad in the first place because of plumbing and wiring errors and not because of the simplesity of the heating controls.

    Room thermostats are rarely wired/positioned correctly and this is usually the cause for the annoying temperture fluctuations you mentioned noticing in many homes. If wired correctly the roomstat has a anticipator that allows the room stat to stay very close to the set temperture as you are finding with your stats.

    A well installed heating system with one room thermostat with a anticipator can maintain a even temperture thru out a home assisted by TRVs.

    If you then fit intelligent room thermostats and muti zones then that would be a better system but the improvements less noticeable on a already working heating system.

    So your advice on maintaining a set point is a good one and one that can be fixed usually by rewiring existing controls.


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    #35
    mylesm
    Registered Users Posts: 463 ✭✭mylesm


    gary71 wrote: »
    I am not in disagreement with you in respect of your choice of controls they're very nice and would work well with a climote:D, my point which is probably badly made is that the heating systems you are looking at to determine the success of your own are bad in the first place because of plumbing and wiring errors and not because of the simplesity of the heating controls.

    Room thermostats are rarely wired/positioned correctly and this is usually the cause for the annoying temperture fluctuations you mentioned noticing in many homes. If wired correctly the roomstat has a anticipator that allows the room stat to stay very close to the set temperture as you are finding with your stats.

    A well installed heating system with one room thermostat with a anticipator can maintain a even temperture thru out a home assisted by TRVs.

    If you then fit intelligent room thermostats and muti zones then that would be a better system but the improvements less noticeable on a already working heating system.

    So your advice on maintaining a set point is a good one and one that can be fixed usually by rewiring existing controls.

    I think we are really talking the same thing

    but in my experience most homes dont have well installed systems and indeed most have a wired stat in the hall if we are talking the era of anticipator stats and wireless stats overcome the problem of poor placement as you can place them where they achieve the best result

    to achieve whole house comfort with one wired stat with anticipator would be
    extremely difficult as every Rad would have to be perfectly sized for each room and it would be difficult to calculate losses etc

    A Wired Thermostat with an anticipator will work ok but will not give anything like the accuracy of a modern stat with pid control which will control to a given setpoint very well and will adjust opening time of valves depending on rate of heating and losses

    A simple wired stat with an anticipator which is really only a resistor wired across the stat which heats the bimetal in an attempt to reduce the inherant long time delay of these Stats does not come near the level of control being achieved by modern stats I am not even sure if wired stats with anticipators are being used at all now

    I know in a ideal world all heating systems would be installed and sized perfectly but in reality they are not so proper modern Temperature control in each Zone becomes even more important

    So if I was designing a control system I would use PID Stats with optimum start If I was laying out a heating system I would try to have as many Zones as practicable and control each Zone at the setpoint but to try to retrofit to an existing system is difficult Wireless Stats no problem but Zoning could be very hard but even this can be helped by modern TRVs with remote Temp sensing capabilies


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    #36
    Darocketeer
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭Darocketeer


    shane0007 wrote: »
    I agree with Freddie, but I might not have put it as bluntly & as eloquently as he did!

    Climates have there uses but I disagree with their claims. I see ther vans going round stating a saving of over 30% on your fuels bills with a Climote. This is simply not true.
    A Climote is a switch & a switch is a switch is a switch! So the only benefit is that if you are coming home at varying times each day, you can switch on the heating remotely. But we are generally in the masses creatures of habit, so a standard timeclock will suffice. We generally tend to get home at the same time each day, so great saving there over a standard timeclock.
    Where it has its uses is in holiday homes, especially in exceptionally cold weather where you can monitor the temperature remotely & switch on & off accordingly.
    What I find with Climote installations, they are generally installed by electricians & no disrespect to electricians, but they have no clue about the workings of heating systems. I have seen them installed above radiators, beside glass doors & once inside a hot press. There was an elderly couple with no Internet, no smart phone but yet Climote decided to install the unit in the hot press. The couple had no heating as the hot press was warm & the installer never disengaged the built in thermostat. When I got there, the couple were sitting in the kitchen with big costs on.

    Zoning with both time & temperature control over each zone is a must for savings. Why heat upstairs when it is only needed for less than an hour before going to bed? So just heat the downstairs & you are only heating half the house.
    Installing TRV's can be beneficial but I have my doubts. Heat rises on radiator systems & works through convection rather than radiation. Generally if you have 20C room temperature is will be a lot less at floor level where the TRV is installed. Will it heat enough at that low level to adjust the TRV accordingly. I'm not saying that it doesn't but I feel it's open to debate.
    Correctly located room thermostats are an excellent choice, interlocked to the boiler via a motorised valve.

    Well, that's my two pence worth anyhow. Oh & throw in a good quality modulating gas boiler with outdoor weather compensation & a very nice economical system is achieved.

    This is spot on advise. Only one thing missing, the Climote system works best after a full heating system flush including the hot water tank. 30% saving over the year is definitely achievable.

    NOTE: I work in the home energy efficiency market and have seen these savings loads of times.


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    #37
    freddyuk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭freddyuk


    Darocketeer wrote: »
    This is spot on advise. Only one thing missing, the Climote system works best after a full heating system flush including the hot water tank. 30% saving over the year is definitely achievable.

    NOTE: I work in the home energy efficiency market and have seen these savings loads of times.

    Eh?
    Maybe I misread your comment?
    You have data from the 2 years the Climote has been in the market to back up the "loads of 30% savings" claims? Please enlighten us as to how you equate the data to show all the savings.
    Also how does a system flush enhance the effectiveness of the Climote?
    As you are in the business you should be able to do this easily....


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    #38
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    There used to be a lad around these parts selling a magnetic clamp that gave great efficiencies. Only thing was, that before he fitted it, he flushed the system and installed a programmable stat and a couple of zone valves. Customers were amazed at the savings. It was priced at about £200 (it was back in those £££ days) over and above the other parts and labour. Everybody was convinced that those magnets were the real biz. My boss at the time eventually persuaded a few people to remove the magnets to see if it made any difference. It was only then that the people could see that they had been ripped off.

    On the plus side, the other work he was doing on the systems did give a great improvement and in all fairness, I think the same plumber believed in the system himself, until word eventually filtered back that the systems worked just as well without the magnets.

    Hard to spot the snake oil sometimes.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



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    #39
    Darocketeer
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭Darocketeer


    freddyuk wrote: »
    Eh?
    Maybe I misread your comment?
    You have data from the 2 years the Climote has been in the market to back up the "loads of 30% savings" claims? Please enlighten us as to how you equate the data to show all the savings.
    Also how does a system flush enhance the effectiveness of the Climote?
    As you are in the business you should be able to do this easily....

    Thanks for your 2 questions. It is an old thread though so I'm not gonna get into a long winded conversation with you. I have the Climote system installed in my house and a few family members' houses so apart from the customer feedback we gather I have the evidence of the savings in my face! I have reduced my oil expenditure to 650 down from 1000 in 2013. I also use the heating more now.
    With regards to your second question, it's not difficult to imagine that if your pipes are clean, and particularly your coil inside the cylinder, the rads and cylinder heat much faster, using less oil to heat them. Common sense. It's worth noting that I have 4 ambient thermostats in my house.


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    #40
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,776 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    Darocketeer wrote: »
    Thanks for your 2 questions. It is an old thread though so I'm not gonna get into a long winded conversation with you. I have the Climote system installed in my house and a few family members' houses so apart from the customer feedback we gather I have the evidence of the savings in my face! I have reduced my oil expenditure to 650 down from 1000 in 2013. I also use the heating more now.

    Most of your saving arises from the drop in the price of crude oil resulting in a drop in the price of home heating oil.

    http://www.infomine.com/investment/metal-prices/crude-oil/5-year/

    http://www.boilerjuice.ie/home-heating-oil-prices-ireland.php

    You have saved around 10 percent, or 100 euros a month. When you factor in the yearly recurring cost of the climote, you have saved 64 euros.

    When you take into account that 2013 was colder than 2014 (2400 degree days as opposed to around 2160) then all your savings are gone. That accounts for you using your heat more. (http://www.met.ie/climate/monthly-data.asp?Num=532)


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    #41
    Egass13
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭Egass13


    Darocketeer wrote: »
    This is spot on advise. Only one thing missing, the Climote system works best after a full heating system flush including the hot water tank. 30% saving over the year is definitely achievable.

    NOTE: I work in the home energy efficiency market and have seen these savings loads of times.

    This is ridiculous. A bog standard flash timer works better with a clean system aswell. Climote is nothing more than a 3 channel programmer, with remote access. Albeit a nice one.


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    #42
    Darocketeer
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭Darocketeer


    antoinolachtnai wrote: »
    Most of your saving arises from the drop in the price of crude oil resulting in a drop in the price

    You have saved around 10 percent, or 100 euros a month. When you factor in the yearly recurring cost of the climote, you have saved 64 euros.

    When you take into account that 2013 was colder than 2014 (2400 degree days as opposed to around 2160) then all your savings are gone. That accounts for you using your heat more.

    I'm in this industry so I'm well informed of the price trends of oil and gas. But it doesn't translate to the price we pay. I'm a new user so can't post articles but they would've been mostly about taxes and currency rates.


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    #43
    freddyuk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭freddyuk


    Maybe you are in the business of "system power flushing" which in my view is of limited benefit in many cases. I would very much doubt that flushing the cylinder coil will have one iota of difference in performance as exactly where does the detritus settle here? Of course over many years radiators are a natural trap for debris due to the drop in flow rate here and the fact debris can sit in the bottom undisturbed but to have the effect of reducing heating in 99% of the rest of the radiator and in every radiator would not be that common and have a a tiny effect unless the system was old and unmaintained. I am sure this is what potential customers get told to justify a good old flushing. If you have done work on a system then flushing is a sensible requirement to ensure new or old disturbed debris is not sent into the pump and valves voiding the warranty. Otherwise it is just an excuse to increase the bill when fitting a very expensive thermostat. You will save much more by not heating the whole house to the same temperature as in zoning with programmable room stats.
    Your data is based on small town house?? How many radiators and what is the heating demand? All other evidence seems to be anecdotal unless you have real data other than the cost of the last oil fill.
    Feel free to PM me if you cannot post it as I am very interested in energy saving too in the most cost effective ways.


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    #44
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,776 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    Darocketeer wrote: »
    I'm in this industry so I'm well informed of the price trends of oil and gas. But it doesn't translate to the price we pay. I'm a new user so can't post articles but they would've been mostly about taxes and currency rates.

    The boilerjuice website is wrong?


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    #45
    Egass13
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭Egass13


    Darocketeer: Climote is a programmer, it has no bearing on the efficiency of a system, unless the system is zoned and even at that it's the actual zones that make it efficient, not the switch that turns them on.

    FreddyUk: are you seriously suggesting cylinder coils can't get sludged up?? The restriction caused by the balancing valve makes the coil a prime target for sludge in a problematic system.

    But do continue lads, this is great reading.

    Also, dtp1979 is looking for an apprentice so if anybody wants to learn a bit send him a pm :)


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    #46
    freddyuk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭freddyuk


    I was hoping for some education from an expert on the question of Climote and flushing. I bow to your experience of course if you have found a cylinder coil blocked with sludge. In 99% of systems I doubt it would be enough to affect the output along the whole coil and certainly has nothing to do with the effectiveness of Climote but we are getting into the wrong discussion.
    I have not received any PM for the record so draw your own conclusions.


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    #47
    Egass13
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭Egass13


    freddyuk wrote: »
    I was hoping for some education from an expert on the question of Climote and flushing. I bow to your experience of course if you have found a cylinder coil blocked with sludge. In 99% of systems I doubt it would be enough to affect the output along the whole coil and certainly has nothing to do with the effectiveness of Climote but we are getting into the wrong discussion.
    I have not received any PM for the record so draw your own conclusions.

    I've seen them blocked solid to the point of them being completely ineffective tbh.
    But your right, it's neither here nor there in the argument of weather a Climote is a magical fuel saving on/off switch or not. Be interested to see what he posts to back up his theory


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    #48
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users Posts: 12,736 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    freddyuk wrote: »
    I was hoping for some education from an expert on the question of Climote and flushing. I bow to your experience of course if you have found a cylinder coil blocked with sludge. In 99% of systems I doubt it would be enough to affect the output along the whole coil and certainly has nothing to do with the effectiveness of Climote but we are getting into the wrong discussion.
    I have not received any PM for the record so draw your own conclusions.[/quote
    I do a lot of powerflushing.
    I've seen several coils reduced to 1/2 bore with sludge.
    So this would certainly reduce the output. What this has got to do with climote or any heating controls is beyond me


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    #49
    uli84
    Registered Users Posts: 1,675 ✭✭✭uli84


    is it possible to have that climote set to say 20 degrees C and when the temperature in the house goes below that it will turn on the heating and will switch it off when it goes above 20? What sorta system I need to have this functionality? that turning the heating on and off drives me mad, I'd rather have it steady...


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    #50
    hufpc8w3adnk65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,158 ✭✭✭✭hufpc8w3adnk65


    uli84 wrote: »
    is it possible to have that climote set to say 20 degrees C and when the temperature in the house goes below that it will turn on the heating and will switch it off when it goes above 20? What sorta system I need to have this functionality? that turning the heating on and off drives me mad, I'd rather have it steady...

    What you'd need in that case is room stats


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    #51
    uli84
    Registered Users Posts: 1,675 ✭✭✭uli84


    Hmm, i've got 1 of these that are on the pic i attached in the main bedroom and 1 downstairs in the hall (probably should have been in the living room) they don't seem to work tho-I set it to 16 degrees, temp in my bedroom was 19 and heating kept on running-now i have no idea why -is it possible that once it's on timer it'll run regardless of thermostat setting?


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    #52
    hufpc8w3adnk65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,158 ✭✭✭✭hufpc8w3adnk65


    uli84 wrote: »
    Hmm, i've got 1 of these that are on the pic i attached in the main bedroom and 1 downstairs in the hall (probably should have been in the living room) they don't seem to work tho-I set it to 16 degrees, temp in my bedroom was 19 and heating kept on running-now i have no idea why -is it possible that once it's on timer it'll run regardless of thermostat setting?

    If done correctly it shouldn't and yes the living room would have been better place too install it then the hall. If both stats are at zero do your rads still heat up?


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    #53
    roy rodgers
    Registered Users Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭roy rodgers


    MrMac84 wrote: »
    If done correctly it shouldn't and yes the living room would have been better place too install it then the hall. If both stats are at zero do your rads still heat up?

    You can't install room stat into a room with a secondary heat source ie a fire place which most living areas would have. And a kitchen would have a cooker.


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    #54
    hufpc8w3adnk65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,158 ✭✭✭✭hufpc8w3adnk65


    roy rodgers wrote: »
    You can't install room stat into a room with a secondary heat source ie a fire place which most living areas would have. And a kitchen would have a cooker.

    The hall is a poor spot aswell in my opinion as people coming and going opening front doors etc cause the hall too be colder then other parts of house but no where's perfect I guess.


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    #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MrMac84 wrote: »
    The hall is a poor spot aswell in my opinion as people coming and going opening front doors etc cause the hall too be colder then other parts of house but no where's perfect I guess.

    Your right there is no perfect place but a room stat correctly fitted in a hall will give a more even temperture thru out the year due to a lack of secondary heat sources, most well installed heating systems I am used to would have the room stat fitted in the hall and it works very well, the room stat positioning became more of problem when I moved to Ireland as they would be fitted in halls in positions that would have a negative impact on the heating controls ie...by the front door, above the rad, in direct sun light, 7 foot up the wall etc...


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    #56
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users Posts: 12,736 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    gary71 wrote: »
    Your right there is no perfect place but a room stat correctly fitted in a hall will give a more even temperture thru out the year due to a lack of secondary heat sources, most well installed heating systems I am used to would have the room stat fitted in the hall and it works very well, the room stat positioning became more of problem when I moved to Ireland as they would be fitted in halls in positions that would have a negative impact on the heating controls ie...by the front door, above the rad, in direct sun light, 7 foot up the wall etc...

    I swear to god, some sparks are stupid. I was at a huge house the other day and no kidding, 6 room stats not more than 300mm above each rad in the zones they were controlling. Some as close as 100mm


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    #57
    dersawazzie
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭dersawazzie


    Room stats fitted directly outside an airing cupboard was one I could never figure out how the installer would think would work, or in an upstairs landing.


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    #58
    uli84
    Registered Users Posts: 1,675 ✭✭✭uli84


    MrMac84 wrote: »
    If done correctly it shouldn't and yes the living room would have been better place too install it then the hall. If both stats are at zero do your rads still heat up?

    No, when i turn it below 15 degrees or so i can hear a "click" and the rads do not heat up then.


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    #59
    hufpc8w3adnk65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,158 ✭✭✭✭hufpc8w3adnk65


    uli84 wrote: »
    No, when i turn it below 15 degrees or so i can hear a "click" and the rads do not heat up then.

    That means your stat is working correctly so


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    #60
    uli84
    Registered Users Posts: 1,675 ✭✭✭uli84


    my thermometer is broken so :)
    I kinda don't understand why its sort of pre-set to stop the heating when I turn the dial to 15, does that mean that it basically 'reads' my room temperature is 15 degrees?


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    #61
    quazzy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭quazzy


    Is tado similar to climote?

    Saw this thread on bargain alerts and just wondering

    http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=97883679#post97883679


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