To drop ROG for Wallace for Arg??

Marshy · 24-09-2007 6:29pm

But the whole point that nearly everyone has made is that Paddy Wallace is not good enough. You're totally mistaken if you think he's gonna come on and just pull a rabbit out of hat. If we had an Evans or a Barnes as cover for outhalf then that'd be great but unfortunately we don't.

Stev_o · 24-09-2007 6:34pm

Marshy wrote:

But the whole point that nearly everyone has made is that Paddy Wallace is not good enough. You're totally mistaken if you think he's gonna come on and just pull a rabbit out of hat. If we had an Evans or a Barnes as cover for outhalf then that'd be great but unfortunately we don't.

Your also forgetting that by O Gara's performances HE isnt good enough i mean bloody hell havent seen him miss so many shots at the post for well over a year.

I mean if all goes crap for Wallace just take him off simple as that

JuliusFranco · 24-09-2007 6:36pm

really it's too late for major changes

it would be harsh to drop Easterby after how he played against France but it might be just give Ireland a bit of a spark to start Quinlan, bearing in mind he was the hero in the Argintina game in the last RWC. I can just imagine he's really choping at the bit to get going (i'm not picturing Alan Quinlan in stirups)

it might work sticking him in the second row. as we have to go "bananas" here i don't see the point in starting Mal only to be replaced after 60. AQ will go ape from the start and DOC on the bench will give an impact option.

ROG is still a better gamble than PW. The only thing is that ROG seems to love getting the better of Felipe at 10. (don't know why i'm assuming FC will start at 10?).

Maybe Carney as a "Reddan type" wild card to shake things up but Murphy and Hickey will need to be in the match 22 at least.

I'll be in the stands with my boots handy...just in case

Edit: For what it's worth (5/2 split on the bench cos it's gonna be physical. Lets hope ROG doesnt get injured (yes I watched the Arg tests too)

15. G Murphy
14. B Carney
13. BOD
12. G D'arcy
11. D Hickey
10. ROG
9. E Reddan

1. B Young
2. J Flannery
3. J Hayes
4. POC
5. A Quinlan
6. S Easterby
7. N Best
8. D Leamy

16. M Horan
17. S Best
18. R Best (if fit)
19. D O'Callaghan
20. D Wallace
21. I Boss
22. S Horgan

marco_polo · 24-09-2007 6:37pm

Marshy wrote:

But the whole point that nearly everyone has made is that Paddy Wallace is not good enough. You're totally mistaken if you think he's gonna come on and just pull a rabbit out of hat. If we had an Evans or a Barnes as cover for outhalf then that'd be great but unfortunately we don't.

Agreed, Paddy Wallace is at least a couple of full seasons for Ulster at number 10 from knowing he has the ability to make it a number 10. (And that is assuming he even wants to play there).

It is a very technical position that must be learned with a few years of experience AT CLUB LEVEL, not with a couple runouts in RWC warmup games or with a few substitute appearances in the 6Ns.

LuckyLloyd · 24-09-2007 6:59pm

Stev_o wrote:

Your also forgetting that by O Gara's performances HE isnt good enough i mean bloody hell havent seen him miss so many shots at the post for well over a year.

I mean if all goes crap for Wallace just take him off simple as that

Stev,

You are correct in your arguements that EOS deserves harsh critiscism for not preparing the Irish squad for this world cup in a manner that would have left viable options for every position on the bench. Clearly, the plan was contingent on ROG not dropping off in form, on ROG not getting injured. Unfortunately, those very things have happened - and the lack of real, quality gametime and preperation for Wallace has left us with no realistic change up.

But, such shortcomings will have to be examined in the course of an overall assessment of the team's planning and end performance in this world cup AFTER the competition is over.

Now, I can also appreciate being frustrated with O' Gara's performances in the previous three games. And I can understand people looking and thinking he isn't up to it.

But, he is the man with the experience. Wallace just does not have the grounding to step into such a vital match against a defence like Argentina. As much as the lack of effort put into him over thepast four years has been unfair - throwing him in at the deep end on Sunday would not be right.

Wallace has some good qualities - no doubt. But his club experience has fashioned him into more of a utillity back than anything else. As marco_polo correctly points out, playing out - half at the very highest level requires a complexity in terms of mental and technical abillity that can only be honed and refined through repeated exposure to big, pressure games. Wallace does not have that base.

It is a shame that we do not have other options. As I said earlier in the thread, if Humphreys or even the likes of Staunton were in the squad we could consider a change up. And the fact that those options are not available is something that needs to be addressed FOLLOWING the conclusion of Ireland's participation in the competition.

O' Gara is a tough competitior and has tackled adversity face on in the past. Let's hope for another **** you performance from him along the lines of Welford road last year.

terry mac · 24-09-2007 9:03pm

bugler wrote:

I can't agree on Quinlan though. I believe he picked up 2 MOM awards in the HC group games, only to fall victim to his own temper (again) in getting banned for that stamp in the Cardiff game. He was also a standout in the Munster ML team when they were alternately píss-poor and very good. He was one of the few players who did well in Argentina. He's arguably a better ball player than any of our starting back rows, loses nothing in the lineout compared to Easterby, and is easily as aggressive as any of them. Ignoring him completely in this WC was a waste.

Was it not a bit of a surprise that Quinlan even made the squad, so I don't think many people were expecting him to get a look in if things went to plan. No disrespect to Quinlan and O'Kelly they've served us well in the past but a lot has happened in 4 years.

Alan Quinlan has not been in the reckoning for Ireland for a long time, how come no-one was pleading for his inclusion in the intervening time. Now it seems everyone is jumping on the "O'Kelly/Quinlan to be the Knight in Shining Armour" bandwagon.

What I'm really trying to say is the fact that people are calling so vehemently for their inclusion really shows how f***in far we have fallen.

Jigsaw · 25-09-2007 2:20am

The only reason that Wallace is not number 10 as I have said already is that Humphreys was kept on one more season because Paddy Wallace going to be at the world cup and Ulster's cover was Niall O'Connor but he is like 20 yrs old or something.

Paddy Wallace is a decent player and I hope to God he doesn't read Boards because people are so negatitive about him. The bloke needs to be given a chance.

Ireland are ****ed for this world cup and possibly 6 nations but the team needs to go away and rebuild. Ditch a lot of the old guard and prepare for the future.
That is how we beat the Oz and SA last autumn. They were fielding experimental sides and we won, but look at what they doing now!!

Jigsaw · 25-09-2007 2:23am

I'm not saying Wallace is the perfect no 10 because he is not but he is worth a shot. He will spend most of the season in that position with Humph covering on his last legs come the winter. Humph has been great servant of Irish rugby but his days are gone.

tHE vAGGABOND · 25-09-2007 9:28am

Paddy Wallace is a decent player and I hope to God he doesn't read Boards because people are so negatitive about him. The bloke needs to be given a chance

Wallace's problem is that he has missed the boat [IMHO]. He is no longer a young player with potential.

He is 28 now, and therefore will be 32 by the time of the next world cup!

If Humpty is still playing [as he has] he will be Ulster's 10 for this season, so Wallace wont get a shot at being a regular 10 until he is 29 [next season]...

We need someone at 10 in their early to mid 20's and develop them, so they are well experienced at provincial and international level for the next world cup. The theory being that they would be at or near their peak at world cup time, but have time on their side regardless..

toomevara · 25-09-2007 10:25am

Wallace is a good but limited rugby player, all due respect to the man. Putting him on the field in the Parc de Prince would be suicidal, and would signal to the Argentinians that the panic in the Irish camp is total. Hopefully O'Gara will be able to get his head right having had a week to deal with the scurrilous nonsense doing the rounds.

Carney should be given a shot. I know he's not the same player who terrorised the opposition when in a Wigan and GB shirt, but he runs lines from deep very well, as you'd expect, and has a great homing instinct for the try line.

To drop ROG for Wallace for Arg??

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