Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Sent to prison for debt owed...

  • 09-11-2009 5:15pm
    #1
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭


    Hi All,

    I've started writing a book that will tell the story of people who have been sent to prison for a debt in Ireland, in particular any people who have been affected by the current economic crisis. I'm amazed that we have the richest people in the country being bailed out with taxpayers money and I suspect that at the same time, we are sending some of the poorest people to prison for a debt.

    I'm looking to make contact with people who have been imprisoned for a debt in Ireland and also people who are possibly facing the prospect of a jail sentence due to a debt owed. I'm looking to meet with anyone who would like to tell their story, obviously all information given will be treated in the strictest of confidence, I'm planning on giving any people that I use as source material, pseudonoms and changing their location for the purposes of fully protecting their identity, etc...

    If anyone can point me in the direction of people facing the prospect of jail time for a debt or anyone who has served a sentence, please feel free to PM me...

    The book will be called, "Debt of Society" and will hopefully be published next year...

    Thanks for any help in advance...

    D.


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Wow,

    Book sounds great, ill be reading that.

    Good Luck.


  • #3
    Dannyboy83
    Registered Users Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Dannyboy83


    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/1109/1224258394211.html?via=mr

    I just saw today about the number of people being jailed for not paying fines is about to double.

    Is there any breakdown of the crimes however?
    i.e. is it an 8000 person increase in people being jailed for not paying their TV License, or more related to public order offences?


  • #4
    SLUSK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭SLUSK


    In Ireland you send people to jail for not paying the TV license.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0421/1224245070706.html

    In Ireland you bail out bankers and developers with tax payers money.
    One law for the rich and another for the rest. This is Oireland


  • #5
    Dannyboy83
    Registered Users Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Dannyboy83


    Bit early to be draging this up, but:


    I TOLD YOU SO! NAH NAH!!:p
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055507140


  • #6
    Dannyboy83
    Registered Users Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Dannyboy83


    20th February 2009
    http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/ideysnmhey/
    "The situation was described as "crazy" by Fine Gael last night, who pointed out it costs e2,000 a week to keep a person in prison. "

    &&

    November 9 2009
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/1109/1224258394211.html?via=mr
    "Fine Gael TD Jim O’Keeffe described the figures as “incredible”, saying it was clear thousands of people were being sent to jail “because they are poor”.
    This was happening at a time when wrongdoing reaching hundreds of millions of euro in the banking sector had gone unpunished."

    I feel like I'm on the set of the Truman show or something.
    I sense a disturbance in the force. There is something wrong with the Matrix.
    Feel like I'm in a goldfish bowl, etc. etc.


  • Advertisement
  • #7
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    There was someone on the radio this afternoon citing (IIRC) Denmark, where fines are imposed based on a percentage of earnings and deducted at source via the tax system.

    It seems a bit pointless sending people to prison for non payment of fines. It would be much easier and cheaper to take money directly from them (tax system or social welfare). Failing that, a tagging system in place of prison (good old house arrest;)).


  • #8
    jhegarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,441 ✭✭✭jhegarty


    SLUSK wrote: »
    In Ireland you send people to jail for not paying the TV license.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0421/1224245070706.html

    In Ireland you bail out bankers and developers with tax payers money.
    One law for the rich and another for the rest. This is Oireland

    No one has ever been sent to jail for not paying the tv license.

    They have been sent to jail for not paying the fines imposed by the court.


  • #9
    Turner
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,935 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    Alot of people choose to go to prison instead of paying the fines.

    Its alot easier to go to mountjoy for 15 days (probably only 3 or 4 in the end) than paying a couple of hundered euro or €1000 fine.


  • #10
    silverharp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,666 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    its beyond me that this whole area hasnt been reformed. For all these non crimes , attachment of earnings or to benefit should be the logical answer no?

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • #11
    SLUSK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭SLUSK


    In Sweden if you don't pay you debts even after the debt collectors been chasing you, you get basically a black mark. When this happens no one will let you rent an apartment, no ISP will provide you with broadband and so on.

    This system is more reasonable. Let the market punish people who are bad at paying their bills and debts. It is a much better system.


  • Advertisement
  • #12
    Zynks
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭Zynks


    dvpower wrote: »
    There was someone on the radio this afternoon citing (IIRC) Denmark, where fines are imposed based on a percentage of earnings and deducted at source via the tax system.

    That will be Norway. Good system. I remember dot com sh*theads getting €600k speeding fines :D


  • #13
    shoegirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭shoegirl


    Its only in the case of non-violent crimes. And honestly, a lot of people on welfare probably are not going to have 100 to spare. I honestly don't know how they manage to pay for things like the TV licence.


  • #14
    TheZohanS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,582 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    SLUSK wrote: »
    In Ireland you send people to jail for not paying the TV license.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0421/1224245070706.html

    In Ireland you bail out bankers and developers with tax payers money.
    One law for the rich and another for the rest. This is Oireland


    You live in Sweden with your mammy and daddy, you do not live in "Oireland". And as another poster pointed out nobody has been sent to prison for not paying a TV licence.


  • #15
    SLUSK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭SLUSK


    TheZohan wrote: »
    You live in Sweden with your mammy and daddy, you do not live in "Oireland". And as another poster pointed out nobody has been sent to prison for not paying a TV licence.

    "Fifty-four people were locked up for failing to pay their TV licence fee."
    So I'm guessing the Irish times is lying then.


  • #16
    Mena
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭Mena


    SLUSK wrote: »
    "Fifty-four people were locked up for failing to pay their TV licence fee."
    So I'm guessing the Irish times is lying then.

    Skewing the truth.

    You don't go to jail in Ireland for non-payment of debt. What happens is thus (speeded up timeline):

    1. You fail to pay
    2. Summons are issued
    3. You don't go to court
    4. Judge orders you to pay x per month off debt or imposes a fine
    5. You didn't go to court so you are unaware of 4 above.
    6. You go to jail for contempt of court when you don't comply with 4.

    That's how I understand it at least.


  • #17
    Fighting Irish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,065 ✭✭✭Fighting Irish


    It's the only way some people will learn


  • #18
    Bosco boy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭Bosco boy


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    Hi All,

    I've started writing a book that will tell the story of people who have been sent to prison for a debt in Ireland, in particular any people who have been affected by the current economic crisis. I'm amazed that we have the richest people in the country being bailed out with taxpayers money and I suspect that at the same time, we are sending some of the poorest people to prison for a debt.

    I'm looking to make contact with people who have been imprisoned for a debt in Ireland and also people who are possibly facing the prospect of a jail sentence due to a debt owed. I'm looking to meet with anyone who would like to tell their story, obviously all information given will be treated in the strictest of confidence, I'm planning on giving any people that I use as source material, pseudonoms and changing their location for the purposes of fully protecting their identity, etc...

    If anyone can point me in the direction of people facing the prospect of jail time for a debt or anyone who has served a sentence, please feel free to PM me...

    The book will be called, "Debt of Society" and will hopefully be published next year...

    Thanks for any help in advance...

    D.

    Best of luck with the book, but just suppose you strike up a deal with an individaul to publish your book, they do, its a great sucess but after a while the money you are owed is not fothcoming and you end up in a civil court, a judgement is passed in your favour and the 15,000 you are owed is due to you in 3 months, you meet pal outside and he tells you "You'll never see a cent of it" Whats your Plan? How do you get your money?


  • #19
    dresden8
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Bosco boy wrote: »
    Best of luck with the book, but just suppose you strike up a deal with an individaul to publish your book, they do, its a great sucess but after a while the money you are owed is not fothcoming and you end up in a civil court, a judgement is passed in your favour and the 15,000 you are owed is due to you in 3 months, you meet pal outside and he tells you "You'll never see a cent of it" Whats your Plan? How do you get your money?

    Brian Lenihan will buy the rights to the book at the Long Term Estimated Value of €20,000 and he will pay his mates €2 billion to administer the collection of the money.

    He suspects he might make a profit on the deal.


  • #20
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    As James Maxwell put it on last week's "The Panel", it's a case of "socialism for the rich & capitalism for the poor"...

    "If you bugger up on a loan of €20, you're getting locked up in a cell in The Joy, but if you lose €3 or €4 billion when you're running a bank, they give you MORE & membership to a golf club."


  • #21
    Fighting Irish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,065 ✭✭✭Fighting Irish


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    As James Maxwell put it on last week's "The Panel", it's a case of "socialism for the rich & capitalism for the poor"...

    "If you bugger up on a loan of €20, you're getting locked up in a cell in The Joy, but if you lose €3 or €4 billion when you're running a bank, they give you MORE & membership to a golf club."

    The thing is if the bank goes totally bust the country goes even more to ****


  • Advertisement
  • #22
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    Fighting Irish wrote: »
    The thing is if the bank goes totally bust the country goes even more to ****

    The thing is the banks approved the loans to people in the first place so its just wrong to say that the people that took them should go to prison for it.

    They acted irresponsibly but so did the people lending to them. Nobody who took loans during a period where people were encouraged to take on loans should go to prison IMO.

    Kick the crap out of their credit ratings fine but prison! Bit over the top IMHO.


  • #23
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Chief--- wrote: »
    Alot of people choose to go to prison instead of paying the fines.

    Its alot easier to go to mountjoy for 15 days (probably only 3 or 4 in the end) than paying a couple of hundered euro or €1000 fine.

    Is it the case that if you DO serve jail time for unpaid debts, that the debts are then written off?


  • #24
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    Bosco boy wrote: »
    Best of luck with the book, but just suppose you strike up a deal with an individaul to publish your book, they do, its a great sucess but after a while the money you are owed is not fothcoming and you end up in a civil court, a judgement is passed in your favour and the 15,000 you are owed is due to you in 3 months, you meet pal outside and he tells you "You'll never see a cent of it" Whats your Plan? How do you get your money?

    You don't. You can't get blood from a rock.


  • #25
    GUIGuy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 246 ✭✭GUIGuy


    Ah newspaper headlines! Please give me one instance of a person being jailed for non payment of a debt in Ireland. It has'nt happened because AFAIK there is no law that permits it.

    Obviously people are thrown in jail for failing to comply with a court order... but that's a completly different matter. When a case is taken against yo for non payment of a debt the court decides on an appropriate repayment schedule considering your crcumstances and orders you to pay it. Yor not jailed for non payment of the civil debt...you're jailed for not doing what the judge told yo.

    It's the "Enforcement of Court Orders Acts 1940". Recently there was a lot of coverage about this... The Caroline McCann test case. She 'ignored' an order to pay back 82 euro a week. The court didn't jail her immediately... The Credit Union took her to cort and she was ordered to pay this amount. It wasn't until she ran up arrears of 5,856Euro, that the district imposed a one month term on her.

    The test case and the subseqent ruling on the case was not that the jailing was wrong per se, but that procedures relating to the fact that the court imposed the order without her being present. Because she wasn't in court she was not represented and no effort was made by the judge to ascertain whether her failure was do to a willful failre or an inabilty. The judge just issued the order... maybe he was annoyed with her. Well the good judge has passed on so we'll never know.

    That is not to say that if she'd been present and represented AND the judge investigated her circmstances she might not have been jailed... but it was the judge's failing.


  • #26
    The_Minister
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    SLUSK wrote: »
    "Fifty-four people were locked up for failing to pay their TV licence fee."
    So I'm guessing the Irish times is lying then.

    See post #8


  • #27
    The_Minister
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    GUIGuy wrote: »
    Ah newspaper headlines! Please give me one instance of a person being jailed for non payment of a debt in Ireland. It has'nt happened because AFAIK there is no law that permits it.

    Obviously people are thrown in jail for failing to comply with a court order... but that's a completly different matter. When a case is taken against yo for non payment of a debt the court decides on an appropriate repayment schedule considering your crcumstances and orders you to pay it. Yor not jailed for non payment of the civil debt...you're jailed for not doing what the judge told yo.

    It's the "Enforcement of Court Orders Acts 1940". Recently there was a lot of coverage about this... The Caroline McCann test case. She 'ignored' an order to pay back 82 euro a week. The court didn't jail her immediately... The Credit Union took her to cort and she was ordered to pay this amount. It wasn't until she ran up arrears of 5,856Euro, that the district imposed a one month term on her.

    The test case and the subseqent ruling on the case was not that the jailing was wrong per se, but that procedures relating to the fact that the court imposed the order without her being present. Because she wasn't in court she was not represented and no effort was made by the judge to ascertain whether her failure was do to a willful failre or an inabilty. The judge just issued the order... maybe he was annoyed with her. Well the good judge has passed on so we'll never know.

    That is not to say that if she'd been present and represented AND the judge investigated her circmstances she might not have been jailed... but it was the judge's failing.

    She wasn't present, but she had been told to attend.
    She knew what was happening.


    OP, you should check out the Law Matters section of the IT from 3/4 weeks back.


  • #28
    The_Minister
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    You don't. You can't get blood from a rock.

    What if they have money but refuse, point-blank, to pay?


  • #29
    deadhead13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭deadhead13


    The Law reform Commission published a consultation paper in September where it recommended that the law should make the distinction between those who cannot and those who will not pay.

    http://www.iprt.ie/contents/1402

    This follows on from a a High Court ruling that found that it was unconstitutional to send a person to prison for the inability to pay a debt.

    http://irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0627/1224249656685.html


  • #30
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    This is a link to the high court judgement on the case last June...

    http://www.courts.ie/Judgments.nsf/09859e7a3f34669680256ef3004a27de/c70d9db2f22e09e9802575fc003c52a4?OpenDocument


  • Advertisement
  • #31
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    The_Minister wrote: »
    What if they have money but refuse, point-blank, to pay?

    I take your point, if you have the means to pay and refuse to do so, then I don't see a reason why you should not go to prison. But even this point isn't as straightforward. Say you owe 20K to your credit union, and you have a house worth 350K with no mortgage. You might have your loan covered in terms of your capital worth, but you might not be able to sell your house in the current climate and therefore cannot use your capital worth to discharge your debt. So where are you then, are you a victim yourself of a wider set of economic circumstances or are you a person who has the means, but lacks the intent to discharge a debt???

    However it seems that since we went into recession and there was a huge rise in unemployment, the number of people ending up in prison for debt default has risen very rapidly, which I think would suggest that the people ending up in prison for non payment of debts are the very same people who are most affected by this recession, possibly people who have lost jobs, etc.

    In any event, I don't claim to have the answers right now, which is why I want to research the whole area and get in touch with people who have been down this particular road...


  • #32
    Fighting Irish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,065 ✭✭✭Fighting Irish


    thebman wrote: »
    The thing is the banks approved the loans to people in the first place so its just wrong to say that the people that took them should go to prison for it.

    They acted irresponsibly but so did the people lending to them. Nobody who took loans during a period where people were encouraged to take on loans should go to prison IMO.

    Kick the crap out of their credit ratings fine but prison! Bit over the top IMHO.

    OK the banks went to **** but WE'RE ALL MOTHERFOOKING ADULTS!


  • #33
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    My thinking here is that the same banks and credit institutions that approved loans over the last 5 years in particular, were fully convinced that the economy would remain sound, house prices would continue rising, that all would be OK...

    They clearly did not see such a massive deterioration in the Irish economy, they did not foresee the situation transforming itself from one of full employment to half a million people on the dole within a two year period. So the issue here is more one of employment I think, it is not necessarily directly about the property crash or other factors. If you have a loan and a job and then you have a loan but no job, then you have a major problem on your hands.

    Now if they couldn't foresee this, I don't think you can blame a man in a job for taking out a loan on the fairly reasonable assumption that he will have a job in 5 years time.

    It's these very people I suspect might be the people ending up in prison.


  • #34
    Bosco boy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭Bosco boy


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    You don't. You can't get blood from a rock.

    So if someone dosent want to pay a debt that they owe then thats the end of it, think if you were actually in that position you would think differently, business would be in even more chaos if that idea was as acceptable as you say, do you not feel that there should be some penalty as the person who is owed is often suffering as a result of the loss or society has suffered cause pal was in court for a crime and got fined and now wants to ignore the fine, I have no sympathy, the fines should be deducted from their income be it wages or social welfare, thats my solution for whats its worth.


  • #35
    the iceman come
    Closed Accounts Posts: 96 ✭✭the iceman come


    Mena wrote: »
    Skewing the truth.

    You don't go to jail in Ireland for non-payment of debt. What happens is thus (speeded up timeline):

    1. You fail to pay
    2. Summons are issued
    3. You don't go to court
    4. Judge orders you to pay x per month off debt or imposes a fine
    5. You didn't go to court so you are unaware of 4 above.
    6. You go to jail for contempt of court when you don't comply with 4.

    That's how I understand it at least.


    As I understand it (and I am open to correction,)it should read like this,

    1 as above
    2 as above
    3 as above

    4 judgement is given in your absence
    5 creditor has the option of enforcing judgement either by sending in sheriff (not usually of any use in a private dwelling)

    6 sheriff returns to report there are no goods to seize
    7 creditor calls for an examination of debtor in court for the purposes of an installent plan (another summons)

    8 debtor dosent turn up,judge makes an order for whatever the creditor wants

    9 debtor still dosent pay

    10 possible jail,judge cannot determine wheter the debtor can or wont pay.


  • #36
    Bosco boy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭Bosco boy


    splitting hairs, if your the person owed the money you'd like to think theirs a sanction their that will encourage the person to pay up and a deterrant for repeated offenders


  • Advertisement
  • #37
    galwayrush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    The debtor goes to prison at the expense of the taxpayer. There's got to be a better way.


  • #38
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,470 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    I'm amazed that we have the richest people in the country being bailed out with taxpayers money

    The usual lazy and completely false argument. What the government and NAMA are doing isn't at all hard to understand. However it appears many people are choosing to misunderstand it just so they can claim it's a "developer's bailout" etc. etc. It's long beyond boring at this stage.

    Scrap the cap!



  • #39
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,287 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I know this fella (lets just call him Ray) who was unable to pay all of his taxes (he was so poor that he had to lie about the few quid extra he received) and ended up getting 6 months in Arbour Hill.
    His former friend (lets just call him Bertie) is apparently in a similar position and although for a long time he was so poor that he couldn't open a bank account, he still cannot manage to get himself tax certified. Thankfully, however, it looks like he may just manage to escape the same punishment dealt to Ray!

    Ray and Bertie are not alone. They, like so many others, are victims! We must put a stop to this pain and suffering. With your help, we can reach out! Please send what you can.


  • #40
    marymolly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭marymolly


    hi there see you are looking for info well i am a mother of four kids and i got fined 11,100 in totel in court in oct for driving a car with no hackney stickers or badge soi will have to go to prison for five days as i do not have that sort of money to pay by the 11th of this month i am a nerovus reck at the taughts of going there but no choice


  • #41
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    SLUSK wrote: »
    In Sweden if you don't pay you debts even after the debt collectors been chasing you, you get basically a black mark. When this happens no one will let you rent an apartment, no ISP will provide you with broadband and so on.

    This system is more reasonable. Let the market punish people who are bad at paying their bills and debts. It is a much better system.

    They have something like that here for businesses called Stubbs Gazette. I knew someone that had their credit rating blacklisted over an unpaid mobile phone bill.


  • Advertisement
  • #42
    allthedoyles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,893 ✭✭✭allthedoyles


    This woman spent Christmas in Jail :

    http://www.newrossstandard.ie/


  • #43
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    SLUSK wrote: »
    One law for the rich and another for the rest. This is Oireland every human society that has ever existed.

    FYP.


  • #44
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    marymolly wrote: »
    hi there see you are looking for info well i am a mother of four kids and i got fined 11,100 in totel in court in oct for driving a car with no hackney stickers or badge soi will have to go to prison for five days as i do not have that sort of money to pay by the 11th of this month i am a nerovus reck at the taughts of going there but no choice

    Have you considered getting a solicitor?


  • #45
    ynotdu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭ynotdu


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    Hi All,

    I've started writing a book that will tell the story of people who have been sent to prison for a debt in Ireland, in particular any people who have been affected by the current economic crisis. I'm amazed that we have the richest people in the country being bailed out with taxpayers money and I suspect that at the same time, we are sending some of the poorest people to prison for a debt.

    I'm looking to make contact with people who have been imprisoned for a debt in Ireland and also people who are possibly facing the prospect of a jail sentence due to a debt owed. I'm looking to meet with anyone who would like to tell their story, obviously all information given will be treated in the strictest of confidence, I'm planning on giving any people that I use as source material, pseudonoms and changing their location for the purposes of fully protecting their identity, etc...

    If anyone can point me in the direction of people facing the prospect of jail time for a debt or anyone who has served a sentence, please feel free to PM me...

    The book will be called, "Debt of Society" and will hopefully be published next year...

    Thanks for any help in advance...

    D.

    Hi Darragh,
    Great idea for a book! but wont most Home repocessions take place in 2010/11/12...........?
    I say that because IMO as soon as NAMA allows 'bail out' the Hugh debts owed to banks,the same banks will go after the homeowners etc.or is there going to be some protection for 'joe soaps'?
    Not a whisper from the Dail on this AFIK????


  • #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    Hi All,

    I've started writing a book that will tell the story of people who have been sent to prison for a debt in Ireland, in particular any people who have been affected by the current economic crisis. I'm amazed that we have the richest people in the country being bailed out with taxpayers money and I suspect that at the same time, we are sending some of the poorest people to prison for a debt.

    I'm looking to make contact with people who have been imprisoned for a debt in Ireland and also people who are possibly facing the prospect of a jail sentence due to a debt owed. I'm looking to meet with anyone who would like to tell their story, obviously all information given will be treated in the strictest of confidence, I'm planning on giving any people that I use as source material, pseudonoms and changing their location for the purposes of fully protecting their identity, etc...

    If anyone can point me in the direction of people facing the prospect of jail time for a debt or anyone who has served a sentence, please feel free to PM me...

    The book will be called, "Debt of Society" and will hopefully be published next year...

    Thanks for any help in advance...

    D.

    Just in regards to "other" debts... I've worked in "Debt Recovery" and credit Control for over 13 years. You would be amazed at the number of people who refuse to read the small print or even the contract before signing up to something. And when you come looking for payment, they're offended that you would even try. I've worked in roughly 6 different companies in Ireland (SME's and larger orgs) dealing with straight transactions to leasing agreements, etc. And to be brutally honest, a lot of these poor unfortunate people are just ignorant of the realities of life. Unwilling to negotiate or compromise a lot of them will face court summons when the company has been bending over backwards to give them easy terms to pay their debts. Bad debts are no use to the company concerned.

    Lastly, Irish people over the last decade fell in love with debt finance.. now its coming back to bite them in the ass. Its not completely the fault of the bankers, big business and the government. (Sure they're a rather significant aspect, but stop passing the buck entirely)


  • #47
    AARRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    I don't believe it's as simple as one rule for the rich and one rule for the poor.

    You only go to jail if you do not cooperate with your lender and the court, and refuse to make any sort of payments.

    I would bet money that is not what the rich do. They get their solicitor to come to some sort of agreement with their lender.

    Big difference.


  • #48
    DublinWriter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,559 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    Great concept for a book.

    You might want to contact a firm of lawsearchers, such as Bradys, to pull out a list of complete list recent judgements on penal sentances for non-payment of fines for you. They will include the name of the person and the address, but it won't be cheap.


  • #49
    PCPhoto
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,584 ✭✭✭PCPhoto


    AARRRGH wrote: »
    I don't believe it's as simple as one rule for the rich and one rule for the poor.

    You only go to jail if you do not cooperate with your lender and the court, and refuse to make any sort of payments.

    I would bet money that is not what the rich do. They get their solicitor to come to some sort of agreement with their lender.

    Big difference.

    problem is that some lenders wont co-operate with people....I'm pretty sure that if some lenders would allow lower payments or variable payments schemes then people might be able to work around it.

    one of my loans that I currently have I pay €455 a month in repayments, at the moment this is ok for me and I know that I have equipment which I can sell in the event of not working in order to make repayments - which should allow me to "survive" for about 6months.

    most lenders - if they are agreeable to reducing payments they expect an increase in overall interest they receive .... if they reduced their greed and allowed people to make their repayments on a flexi scale - a lot of people will be able to pay their debts.

    I have talked in the past about rescheduling payments and the bank wouldnt give me the time of day..... I was in a few months ago .... they took a look at my accounts and basically said theres too much online gambling transactions (it was 4-5 transactions a month no larger than €100 at a time) .... so I've had to stop using my account to play some of the online gambling that I used to enjoy.... in order for my bank to allow me to adjust my payments I had to avoid my little pleasure for a minimum of three months.


  • #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    From a personal & professional point of view I detest the banks. They give out loans aplenty and then try to screw you on the repayments, and lat payment charges. Basically, they intend right from the beginning to mess up their customers. And worse yet, there's absolutely no loyalty in them. Credit Unions on the other hand are a lot more flexible and are willing to help you out. Sure, they don't want bad debts or defaulters, but they'll at least attempt at a compromise.

    I've worked in the area of credit control almost my whole adult life (until last year), and every company that I've worked for was willing to settle on some compromise to customers finding it difficult to make their repayments. My job was not to get the money and screw the customer, but to get payment and keep the customer. Bad publicity both media driven or word-of-mouth was to be avoided. Don't get me wrong.. I've worked through liquidations, legal processing, and have acted as witness in court against bad debtors.

    The point I'm seeking to make here is that most businesses will seek to look after their customers if they receive some reasonable response from customers. Banks won't. One of the reasons, I've turned down job offers from banks in the past.


  • #51
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Darragh29, on a side note, I hope you're going to be balanced in this and write about the general stupidity of many people when taking on debt? A book about people getting screwed is all very well and good, but a better book might also highlight some of the faults in consumers when taking out such debts...


  • Advertisement
This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement