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A&A Feedback

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,696 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    legspin wrote: »
    Not as off-topic as you may think. They are dealing with topics of a moral and ethical nature. We just discuss them without religion having any say in the matter.
    Ethical discussions belong in philosophy or humanities. The mere fact that a discussion doesn't mention "God" isn't enough to make it an atheist discussion in any meaningful sense. If it were, 99% of the material on boards.ie. should be in this forum.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Ethical discussions belong in philosophy or humanities. The mere fact that a discussion doesn't mention "God" isn't enough to make it an atheist discussion in any meaningful sense. If it were, 99% of the material on boards.ie. should be in this forum.

    Untrue. Ethics can be discussed in a variety of fora if appropriate. It's ridiculous and typical of supernaturalism to tell others what they can and cannot do of course.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    A topic raised before is the placing of A&A under religion and spirituality. It's entirely inappropriate. We're not a branch of supernaturalism and being placed here is an insult. A&A deserves the space to be treated as a life view without being placed under the umbrella of a life view most of us regard with complete derision.


  • Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭qt3.14


    A topic raised before is the placing of A&A under religion and spirituality. It's entirely inappropriate. We're not a branch of supernaturalism and being placed here is an insult. A&A deserves the space to be treated as a life view without being placed under the umbrella of a life view most of us regard with complete derision.

    Plus it's definitionally exclusionary, there's ignostics and apatheists too!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,797 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    qt3.14 wrote: »
    Plus it's definitionally exclusionary, there's ignorstics and apatheists too!

    Fixed that for you.

    I love that word apatheists, suits a lot of people I think. Including me.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭qt3.14


    looksee wrote: »
    Fixed that for you.
    Nope, ignostic is a thing, basically the position that theological concepts such as god etc are bereft of cognitive meaningfulness in the philosophical sense. With no coherent definitions available any possible debate of the terms is nonsensical.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    What's the difference between cognitive meaningfulness and meaningfulness?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    jank wrote: »
    You just can't help yourself can you Robin. What you did just there would have earned you a card in practically every other forum on boards including AH. But we all know where my reported post in this forum will go Dear Leader.
    I must apologize for my response to your original unhelpful post - not only for the delay in replying (I've been out sick for most of the last month, and for most of that, available only on mobile which is a less than ideal platform for boards), but also for the nature of the reply, which I should explain.

    Here in A+A, we like to keep a light hand on moderation, particularly with respect to posters holding views which are not held by the majority of others. Hence when somebody makes a comment which violates the word or spirit of the charter, or looks like they may soon do so, we typically try to defuse the issue with a little humor rather than coming in hot and heavy, threatening cards, bans and so on. This, we have found, usually keeps the forum running a little more smoothly. You are correct to point out that highlighting errors in a poster's grammar is generally frowned upon on boards, but it's arguably understandable in the case where doing so is used to avoid a more serious public reprimand which would be likely to cause greater offence, particularly from a poster with a history of commenting publicly about their unhappiness with A+A in general, with its moderation policy, with its moderators, with its alleged bias and so much that it's almost, but not quite, an enduring mystery why you continue to post here.

    Had I known that you'd have tended that throwaway comment - posted in a hurry at ten-to-beer on a Friday evening in November - to the extent that you appear to have since done, I'd have avoided the easygoing approach and instead issued you with a formal threat of moderator action.

    This topic is now closed in A+A. Any further commentary is directed to the site feedback forum.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    Absolam wrote: »
    What's the difference between cognitive meaningfulness and meaningfulness?

    I'll be willing to bet that your answer includes the alleged deity. How about you skip three pages of saying nothing and just say that you love Jesus.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    I'll be willing to bet that your answer includes the alleged deity. How about you skip three pages of saying nothing and just say that you love Jesus.
    That's novel. I didn't for a second think that qt3.14 would have an answer that involved loving Jesus, but now I'm fascinated by what possible chain of logic could have lead you to that conclusion? And, of course, if qt3.14 is going to concur.....


    [edit] Actually, don't answer just yet qt3.14.... Depending on just how much you love Jesus it may be worthwhile having a conversation after Cantremember gets back to us.

    Catremememeber.... What exactly are you willing to bet?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    Absolam wrote: »
    That's novel. I didn't for a second think that qt3.14 would have an answer that involved loving Jesus, but now I'm fascinated by what possible chain of logic could have lead you to that conclusion? And, of course, if qt3.14 is going to concur.....


    [edit] Actually, don't answer just yet qt3.14.... Depending on just how much you love Jesus it may be worthwhile having a conversation after Cantremember gets back to us.

    Catremememeber.... What exactly are you willing to bet?

    QED. See, meaningless gibberish. I'd bet you a battalion of angels. Archangels if you want. Oh wait a minute....


  • Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭qt3.14


    Absolam wrote: »
    What's the difference between cognitive meaningfulness and meaningfulness?
    Been a while since I read Wittgenstein but it was basically to distinguish subjects that were verifiable or at least subject to reason. Afair it was to establish a new scientific philosophy where only the above were worth even having a discussion on.

    So, an ignostic would regard the statements I believe/I don't believe in god about as sensible a topic for discussion as I believe/I don't believe in fod. Basically denying that theological concepts have even a basic worthiness of being discussed seriously.

    I could be misremembering though!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    qt3.14 wrote: »
    Been a while since I read Wittgenstein but it was basically to distinguish subjects that were verifiable or at least subject to reason. Afair it was to establish a new scientific philosophy where only the above were worth even having a discussion on.
    So, an ignostic would regard the statements I believe/I don't believe in god about as sensible a topic for discussion as I believe/I don't believe in fod. Basically denying that theological concepts have even a basic worthiness of being discussed seriously.
    I could be misremembering though!

    Ah... I would have thought that the statement 'I do not believe in God' would be verifiable both logically and empirically, rendering it cognitively meaningful in the Wittgensteinian sense. It's an odd bit of philosophy, but one I will enjoy reading about, thanks!

    But to the more entertaining point; you have (unfortunately) mentioned god in your reply; but are you referring to 'the alleged deity' in Cantremembers post? Also, in less that three pages if you can, do you love Jesus? No pressure, but I'd quite like to see how he delivers a battalion of archangels....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    Absolam wrote: »
    Ah... I would have thought that the statement 'I do not believe in God' would be verifiable both logically and empirically, rendering it cognitively meaningful in the Wittgensteinian sense. It's an odd bit of philosophy, but one I will enjoy reading about, thanks!

    But to the more entertaining point; you have (unfortunately) mentioned god in your reply; but are you referring to 'the alleged deity' in Cantremembers post? Also, in less that three pages if you can, do you love Jesus? No pressure, but I'd quite like to see how he delivers a battalion of archangels....

    Any Angels today Absolam? Lol.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    Any Angels today Absolam? Lol.

    I'm still waiting to find out. But I hope you have plenty of gift wrap... It is Christmas after all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    Absolam wrote: »
    I'm still waiting to find out. But I hope you have plenty of gift wrap... It is Christmas after all.

    Keep gritting those teeth Absolam! Angels and archangels by the battalion. LMAO.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Folks, I may be too tired and lazy to read your posts. I am certainly very confused as to what the actual feedback is relating to wittenstein or someone and cognitive meaningfullness.

    Anyone wanna game of battleship or Jenga?
    /////

    MOD:
    Any Angels today Absolam? Lol.
    Keep gritting those teeth Absolam! Angels and archangels by the battalion. LMAO.

    Did s/he forget to send you a Christmas card or something? No need for such personal quips anywhere on this forum. Even more so at Christmas. Please make him/her some humble pie and apologise. Thanks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    Turtwig wrote: »
    Folks, I may be too tired and lazy to read your posts. I am certainly very confused as to what the actual feedback is relating to wittenstein or someone and cognitive meaningfullness.

    Anyone wanna game of battleship or Jenga?

    That stuff can be safely ignored. Even poor old Wittgenstein had a philosophy of two halves. Kindly take a look at my feedback contributions: A&A needs a new home so we can escape the religion umbrella and become less defined by rejection of it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    Qt3.14 feels that the term A&A is exclusionary, as it does not allow for Ignostics, which is a position based on Wittgensteinian philosophy.
    Cantrememember has bet a battalion of Archangels that the answer to my question to qt3.14 about the basis of the terminology employed by Wittgenstein will involve a reference to an alleged deity, and would like qt3.14 to just say that they love Jesus.

    There you are, all wrapped up for you :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,533 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    That stuff can be safely ignored. Even poor old Wittgenstein had a philosophy of two halves. Kindly take a look at my feedback contributions: A&A needs a new home so we can escape the religion umbrella and become less defined by rejection of it.

    Ireland is still a religion dominated society - the non-religious are still marked apart by their rejection of the 'norm', and have fewer legal rights.

    If there were no such thing as theism then there'd be no such thing as atheism either, but we are where we are.

    Atheism and atheist activism are a counterstrike of sorts to religion, and a challenge to the idea that religion is sane never mind normal. The yang to religion's ying. Much as I dislike religion, A&A does belong where it is.

    Scrap the cap!



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    Turtwig wrote: »
    Did s/he forget to send you a Christmas card or something? No need for such personal quips anywhere on this forum. Even more so at Christmas. Please make him/her some humble pie and apologise. Thanks.

    Certainly not. Gritting his teeth is a personal "quip"? Pointing out the absurdity of having a bet where he stands to win a battalion of angels is not allowed in A&A??? :D

    And since when did Christmas become a special time in A &A?

    For all the above reasons your reprimand is absurd.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    Ireland is still a religion dominated society - the non-religious are still marked apart by their rejection of the 'norm', and have fewer legal rights.

    If there were no such thing as theism then there'd be no such thing as atheism either, but we are where we are.

    Atheism and atheist activism are a counterstrike of sorts to religion, and a challenge to the idea that religion is sane never mind normal. The yang to religion's ying. Much as I dislike religion, A&A does belong where it is.

    I disagree with very little of this except the placement of A&A. The forum should be called life views or something: religions are one such, A&A another, humanism a third. Religions should have sub forums for Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Scientology , spaghetti monster etc. That would make far more logical sense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭qt3.14


    Absolam wrote: »
    Ah... I would have thought that the statement 'I do not believe in God' would be verifiable both logically and empirically, rendering it cognitively meaningful in the Wittgensteinian sense. It's an odd bit of philosophy, but one I will enjoy reading about, thanks!

    But to the more entertaining point; you have (unfortunately) mentioned god in your reply; but are you referring to 'the alleged deity' in Cantremembers post? Also, in less that three pages if you can, do you love Jesus? No pressure, but I'd quite like to see how he delivers a battalion of archangels....
    The very concept of God isn't verifiable logically and empirically though, I think is the point.
    And, I'm happy to say that I do love the aforementioned quasi-historical literary figure. I get a few days off every thanks to him!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    :(. No Angels then


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    Absolam wrote: »
    :(. No Angels then

    Disappointment awaits all those who expect them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭qt3.14


    Absolam wrote: »
    :(. No Angels then
    You're an angel! Aren't you? Coochy-coo. :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    Well..... Someone did say "you're cherubic" once. That's what it sounded like anyway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,533 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    There is nothing wrong with saying "Ann Coulter is a person whose death I will celebrate." She is an absolutely hateful person.

    We can post pictures of Mohammad but not say things about Ann Coulter, funny old world innit.

    Scrap the cap!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭Aenaes


    Ann Coulter's representatives may sue for monetary compensation.

    Mohammad's representatives may do other things but not that.

    Money rules. :P


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    There is nothing wrong with saying "Ann Coulter is a person whose death I will celebrate." She is an absolutely hateful person.
    I've little doubt she deserves every bit of dislike she arouses. Nonetheless, I feel it's a little un-A+A to phrase one's disgust at a fellow human as bluntly as that. A little more subtlety might have had a few more people showing up for the dance :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,533 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    She's not exactly a 'group hug' person based on her own words. She doesn't like people like me (or the majority of us here) so I don't have to like her. I'm not much of a humanist, more of a nihilist. Lots of people are ****s after all - religious or not. We can discourage ***tish behavour by speaking out against it, being nice will, on its own, achieve shag all.

    Scrap the cap!



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    [...] being nice will, on its own, achieve shag all [...]
    It's best to maintain the moral high ground over somebody whose empty days are filled with attempts to take it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,971 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    robindch wrote: »
    I've little doubt she deserves every bit of dislike she arouses. Nonetheless, I feel it's a little un-A+A to phrase one's disgust at a fellow human as bluntly as that. A little more subtlety might have had a few more people showing up for the dance :)

    Those were my honest feelings about her. I think she's a vile waste of a human being, whose only ambition is to spread her poison of bigotry.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Those were my honest feelings about her.
    They may well be, but it's still best to tone some things down.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    Aenaes wrote: »
    Ann Coulter's representatives may sue for monetary compensation.

    Mohammad's representatives may do other things but not that.

    Money rules. :P

    Under what basis could they sue?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    It may be me, but were there a number of posts deleted?

    Yeah, it was me. Wrong thread.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,696 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    She's not exactly a 'group hug' person based on her own words. She doesn't like people like me (or the majority of us here) so I don't have to like her. I'm not much of a humanist, more of a nihilist. Lots of people are ****s after all - religious or not. We can discourage ***tish behavour by speaking out against it, being nice will, on its own, achieve shag all.

    Is you celebrating the death of Anne Coulter any better than someone else celebrating the deaths of, e.g., gays or atheists? If you don't have to like Anne Coulter, then on what possible grounds can you object to or complain about her not liking you?

    Your defence of your own position effectively sets Anne Coulter up as your moral benchmark. You're not so much a "treat others as you would wish them to treat you" person as a "treat others as they do treat you" person. An eye for an eye, and all that. How very Old Testament of you! ;)

    Or, to put it more succinctly, you say "speaking out against it", others will say "engaging in the same ***tish behavour". You see the problem?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,533 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Is you celebrating the death of Anne Coulter any better than someone else celebrating the deaths of, e.g., gays or atheists?

    Take that up with the person who said it.
    I said there was nothing wrong with the poster expressing their opinion, they were not advocating violence or anything.

    Scrap the cap!



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,533 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    It's not my phrasing though. Did you see the post immediately above yours?

    Scrap the cap!



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    Is it just me or do we have 2 threads which have gone off and converged into the same discussion just on 2 fronts?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    The mod team have mentioned it internally and we're a lazy auld bunch.

    Until a definitive decision is made just consider one thread with spin up and the other with spin down. If that doesn't make sense then then think about it in terms of threads not taken. Diverged in a yellow wood, sorry you cannot travel both you decide to explore one thread in your mind before deciding to take the one less travelled on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Turtwig wrote: »
    The mod team have mentioned it internally and we're a lazy auld bunch.

    Until a definitive decision is made just consider one thread with spin up and the other with spin down. If that doesn't make sense then then think about it in terms of threads not taken. Diverged in a yellow wood, sorry you cannot travel both you decide to explore one thread in your mind before deciding to take the one less travelled on.

    Said the Traveler.
    Knocking on the moonlight door.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Turtwig wrote: »
    Until a definitive decision is made just consider one thread with spin up and the other with spin down. If that doesn't make sense then then think about it in terms of threads not taken. Diverged in a yellow wood, sorry you cannot travel both you decide to explore one thread in your mind before deciding to take the one less travelled on.
    I agree. I think.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭legspin


    Just out of curiosity, when did we get all the extra mods?
    I thought we only had four; Dades, Rob, Turt and Asiaprod, who isn't around much anymore. I know Scofflaw was category mod but where did all the others spring from?


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 10,518 Mod ✭✭✭✭5uspect


    legspin wrote: »
    Just out of curiosity, when did we get all the extra mods?
    I thought we only had four; Dades, Rob, Turt and Asiaprod, who isn't around much anymore. I know Scofflaw was category mod but where did all the others spring from?

    I think it's a bug.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    The official answer is that they become cat mods. The unofficial answer is they gave us biscuits.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,266 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    legspin wrote: »
    Just out of curiosity, when did we get all the extra mods?
    I thought we only had four; Dades, Rob, Turt and Asiaprod, who isn't around much anymore. I know Scofflaw was category mod but where did all the others spring from?

    A bug since the category reshuffle. All the CMods names are now lumped in with the mods names. Same on pretty much every forum.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    ^^ This.

    The devs are trying to iron out this wrinkle and others at the moment.


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