Working in the Black Market

starbelgrade · 27-05-2010 3:34pm #1

I have a "friend" who recently was getting a few jobs done on his house by various tradesmen, many of whom were willing to drop their prices significantly to work for "cash-in-hand". By doing so, they are essentially working on the black market by not paying tax.

What are your opinions on this;

Have you ever paid someone to do a job cash-in-hand? Have you ever worked for cash-in-hand payments?

Do you think that it is acceptable / unacceptable?

Daemos · 27-05-2010 3:37pm

starbelgrade wrote: »

Poll to follow shortly.

You should really just put that in your sig so you don't have to keep saying it over and over and over and over...

starbelgrade · 27-05-2010 3:37pm

DaPoolRulz wrote: »

You should really just put that in your sig so you don't have to keep saying it over and over and over and over...

Maybe I should just stop posting altogether.

prinz · 27-05-2010 3:38pm

starbelgrade wrote: »

By doing so, they are essentially working on the black market by not paying tax.
What are your opinions on this

One of the main reasons Greece went down the tubes. Should not be encouraged. Anyone who operates on a black market basis forfeits the right to complain about the country.

ballsymchugh · 27-05-2010 3:38pm

by paying cash in hand, you don't get a receipt, so how could you prove that if work went wrong that the tradesman is responsible for it? that's the only thing i'm wary of. if you ask for a receipt then it creates the paper trail but it's also your comeback if it goes tits up.

ejmaztec · 27-05-2010 3:39pm

starbelgrade wrote: »

Maybe I should just stop posting altogether.

We could have a poll on that:P

easyeason3 · 27-05-2010 3:39pm

No I don't see anything wrong with it.

Probably a lot more people signing on & doing nixers than ever before.

Can be the difference of a family eating so why would you begrudge anyone that?

Wazdakka · 27-05-2010 3:39pm

Yea I've paid Cash in hand to get a few jobs done before..

You have to be careful though as the workers are rarely insured and if any accidents happen then it's probably you that's going to be held liable.

The important thing is to agree on a price beforehand....
and always wear a condom.

starbelgrade · 27-05-2010 3:40pm

ejmaztec wrote: »

We could have a poll on that:P

I'm not sure that I'd want to know the results on that one.

Bazzy · 27-05-2010 3:40pm

Cash in hand all the way man

Morlar · 27-05-2010 3:42pm

Bazzy wrote: »

Cash in hand all the way man

~That's just funny :

Cash in hand all the way man
__________________
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TheZohanS · 27-05-2010 3:42pm

easyeason3 wrote: »

No I don't see anything wrong with it.

Probably a lot more people signing on & doing nixers than ever before.

Can be the difference of a family eating so why would you begrudge anyone that?

Then why don't we all draw the dole and do nixers? It would be like a magical utopian society.

Jay D · 27-05-2010 3:44pm

BORING...........

this thread certainly makes me want to go asleep and even a poll, God!n Where's the - seriously, get a life option?

Eoin · 27-05-2010 3:44pm

I'm a bit of a hypocrite when it comes to this. I don't like tax cheats, as I pay my fair share (even on part time work that I do). But if I can get some work done on my house by a tradesman for a bit less than some of the exorbitant prices they have charged over the last few years, I'll turn a blind eye to it.

starbelgrade · 27-05-2010 3:47pm

Jay D wrote: »

BORING...........

this thread certainly makes me want to go asleep and even a poll, God!n Where's the - seriously, get a life option?

Then I suggest you start an alternative thread with a really engaging & interesting subject topic, with amazing poll options that will blow people's minds.

If you can think of one.

easyeason3 · 27-05-2010 3:47pm

TheZohan wrote: »

Then why don't we all draw the dole and do nixers? It would be like a magical utopian society.

Well if someone is drawing the dole & making a weeks wage out of nixers then I have a problem with it.

BUT, if someone is drawing the dole & gets random nixers here & there that would count as pocket change to some people then yeah why not?

ejmaztec · 27-05-2010 3:48pm

I assume that most of the nixers are cowboys, and it's easier to negotiate a decent price with someone who's above the radar, and can provide guarantees if anything goes wrong.

Morlar · 27-05-2010 3:48pm

easyeason3 wrote: »

Well if someone is drawing the dole & making a weeks wage out of nixers then I have a problem with it.

BUT, if someone is drawing the dole & gets random nixers here & there that would count as pocket change to some people then yeah why not?

Because they are cheating the system twice. They should not be on the dole if they can get a job and if they have a job they should pay tax like the rest of us. Also it's illegal.

thetonynator · 27-05-2010 3:50pm

easyeason3 wrote: »

No I don't see anything wrong with it.

Probably a lot more people signing on & doing nixers than ever before.

Can be the difference of a family eating so why would you begrudge anyone that?

No it can't. You will not starve in this country. It could be the difference of getting your house repossesed, or your phone cut off, but not starvation.

ScumLord · 27-05-2010 3:52pm

ballsymchugh wrote: »

by paying cash in hand, you don't get a receipt, so how could you prove that if work went wrong that the tradesman is responsible for it? that's the only thing i'm wary of. if you ask for a receipt then it creates the paper trail but it's also your comeback if it goes tits up.

"Cash in hand" is just one of the other payment options out here in the wesht.

Cypher_sounds · 27-05-2010 3:52pm

Morlar wrote: »

Because they are cheating the system twice. They should not be on the dole if they can get a job and if they have a job they should pay tax like the rest of us. Also it's illegal.

Doing nixers is not a job its just 'helping out a friend or neighbour' not cheating nobody unless the neighbours hubby is out:pac:

Overature · 27-05-2010 3:53pm

i wouldn't call it "black market", im sure the majority of people who were offered some small job where they would get away with not paying tax would take it.

Jaxxy · 27-05-2010 3:54pm

I've both paid someone cash-in-hand and been paid cash-in-hand, generally to and from people I am acquainted with. I'd rather pay someone I know to do up my bathroom, for example, than someone I don't. All of the women in my family get their hair done by my best friend too, since she's out of work and most of us can't afford to pay Peter Mark €120+ every month for a head of meche.

I have no problem with it, but then again I obviously have loose morals. :P

ejmaztec · 27-05-2010 3:55pm

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Doing nixers is not a job its just 'helping out a friend or neighbour'

They must have a sh1tload of friends and neighbours, many of them miles away.

starbelgrade · 27-05-2010 3:55pm

easyeason3 wrote: »

Well if someone is drawing the dole & making a weeks wage out of nixers then I have a problem with it.

BUT, if someone is drawing the dole & gets random nixers here & there that would count as pocket change to some people then yeah why not?

I've a mate (not a mate in inverted commas this time, but a real one) who worked for over 15 years paying PRSI etc. He was made redundant 2 years ago & after a year was means tested. The means test for Social Welfare benefits is a bizzarre one that doesn't take into account the real income & expenditure of people - ie., it ignores tax hikes, health levies, mortgage payments etc - basically anything that affects peoples real life costs & spending.

Anyhow, they calculated by their odd calculations, that as his wife earns 10cent over the allowed weekly limit, he gets no welfare whatsoever. He even offered to give them the 10cent a week (ie. €5.20 per year) so he could get some of payment, which they refused.

So after 15 years paying PRSI & Tax, the system basically told him to go f*ck himself, for the sake of just over a fiver.

He now does nixers & odd jobs, all for cash-in-hand and feels perfectly justified in doing so. I find it hard to argue with his viewpoint.

Lando Griffin · 27-05-2010 3:55pm

In the height of the recession an engineer friend of mine was getting a house ready to hand over to some clients on a Friday evening, and had employed a legit painter to do some painting.
During conservation with the painter, he complained about having not enough work to pay the bills and said it was tough for him to keep going.
The engineer pointed out the few jobs to be done and left.
When he returned, half the work was done, the wooden door covered in specks of paint and varnished over and the bucket of paint left in the middle of the floor.
He called over the lad doing the snagging and asked where the painter had got to to which he replied “He left at 3 o clock cos he said he doesn’t work after 3 on a Friday”

easyeason3 · 27-05-2010 3:57pm

Morlar wrote: »

Because they are cheating the system twice. They should not be on the dole if they can get a job and if they have a job they should pay tax like the rest of us. Also it's illegal.

I'm talking about sporadic work so how are they cheating the tax system twice?
Do you expect someone to sign off the live registar for the sake of a few hours work when it probably took them a few months to get welfare payments due to a backlog?

Cypher_sounds · 27-05-2010 3:57pm

ejmaztec wrote: »

They must have a sh1tload of friends and neighbours, many of them miles away.

Word of mouth is a powerful thing

hard to say no too lol

thetonynator · 27-05-2010 3:58pm

starbelgrade wrote: »

He now does nixers & odd jobs, all for cash-in-hand and feels perfectly justified in doing so. I find it hard to argue with his viewpoint.

Yes, but he's not drawing the dole. Therefore he is probably entitled to work odd jobs.

starbelgrade · 27-05-2010 3:59pm

Lando Griffin wrote: »

In the height of the recession an engineer friend of mine was getting a house ready to hand over to some clients on a Friday evening, and had employed a legit painter to do some painting.
During conservation with the painter, he complained about having not enough work to pay the bills and said it was tough for him to keep going.
The engineer pointed out the few jobs to be done and left.
When he returned, half the work was done, the wooden door covered in specks of paint and varnished over and the bucket of paint left in the middle of the floor.
He called over the lad doing the snagging and asked where the painter had got to to which he replied “He left at 3 o clock cos he said he doesn’t work after 3 on a Friday”

There was a hell of a lot of that sort of thing going on during the boom.

syklops · 27-05-2010 4:01pm

eoin wrote: »

I'm a bit of a hypocrite when it comes to this. I don't like tax cheats, as I pay my fair share (even on part time work that I do). But if I can get some work done on my house by a tradesman for a bit less than some of the exorbitant prices they have charged over the last few years, I'll turn a blind eye to it.

Im like that. On the one hand I cant stand tax dodgers. On the other hand, your income is taxed, everything you buy has tax added on, If you have a car the registration is taxed, you have to pay for the roads via road tax, and if you ever decide to drive anywhere the fuel is tax. God help you if you drink because about 70% of what you spend is tax, and if you have any money left from all that, and put it in the bank, and get interest, you get charged tax on that too. So the other part of me says screw them. Little nixers here and there wont break the bank. However a company relying solely on off the books work is going too far.

starbelgrade · 27-05-2010 4:05pm

ScumLord wrote: »

"Cash in hand" is just one of the other payment options out here in the wesht.

"Are you paying cash?" is usually one of the first questions when getting a job priced up where I live!

Eoin · 27-05-2010 4:06pm

Overature wrote: »

i wouldn't call it "black market", im sure the majority of people who were offered some small job where they would get away with not paying tax would take it.

I think it's called the grey market when you're talking about cash in hand for otherwise normal services or good.

Morlar · 27-05-2010 4:13pm

I don't think this is as harmless as some people here like to pretend.

First off tradesmen doing nixers undercuts legitimate self employed or small firms - putting exsisting jobs in serious peril.

They are typically getting paid dole while they are unavailable for legitimate work & they are getting wages on which not tax is paid.

IF (big if I know) we could get rid of or even scale down the black economy there would be guaranteed 100% be more genuine legitimate jobs created.

Meaning less people on the dole and less burden on the taxpaying workers, better services etc etc.

biko · 27-05-2010 4:16pm

Jay D wrote: »

BLAH BLAH...........

this thread certainly makes me want to go asleep and even a poll, God!n Where's the - seriously, get a life option?

Seriously, if you don't like - don't post or at least report with an explanation.

ejmaztec · 27-05-2010 4:18pm

Any tax lost as a result of nixers seems insignificant when you compare it to the debts that the banks and developers have left us with.

I can understand some people saying "fuck being honest and paying tax".

prinz · 27-05-2010 4:20pm

ejmaztec wrote: »

I can understand some people saying "fuck being honest and paying tax".

It's understandable as long as they take full responsibility for contributing to making the problems worse.

topper75 · 27-05-2010 4:20pm

prinz wrote: »

One of the main reasons Greece went down the tubes. Should not be encouraged. Anyone who operates on a black market basis forfeits the right to complain about the country.

No. The reason Greece went down the tubes is the same reason we are in trouble. Big government.

The country isn't the govt. They'd like you to believe they are one and the same of course.

prinz · 27-05-2010 4:22pm

topper75 wrote: »

No. The reason Greece went down the tubes is the same reason we are in trouble. Big government..

Big government that over spent. Over spending that could have been cut down a lot by the estimated €30 billion in taxes that wasn't going to the government because of the black market economy.

topper75 · 27-05-2010 4:27pm

TheZohan wrote: »

Then why don't we all draw the dole and do nixers? It would be like a magical utopian society.

Given the magical utopian society our government have provided for us, you know what, I'll take my chances.

Give me back my income tax, all my VAT and my PRSI; I'll go private on health and get my kids some privately contracted teachers. If they don't deliver I'll hire some better ones.

I don't fear the market! Government has us frightened into thinking that it all goes to hell in a handbasket unless we chip into their pile, but when semistate CEOs are paid up to half a million with damn all accountability with expenses and you have clown stooges appointed for banking regulators, I'm happy to ask you guys for a leg up into that handbasket.

galah · 27-05-2010 4:30pm

I wasnt even aware that tradesmen should give you a receipt...great.
So far, everything we've had done to our house has been paid in cash, there was never another option (and I never asked for one cause it didnt occur to me...). Hm....

topper75 · 27-05-2010 4:31pm

prinz wrote: »

Big government that over spent. Over spending that could have been cut down a lot by the estimated €30 billion in taxes that wasn't going to the government because of the black market economy.

Maybe I misunderstand you point, but you appear to be saying that if they were given more money, then they wouldn't have spent so much money?

Eoin · 27-05-2010 4:31pm

topper75 wrote: »

No. The reason Greece went down the tubes is the same reason we are in trouble. Big government.

Tax evasion is absolutely endemic in Greece. It's not taboo or even frowned upon.

Bazzy · 27-05-2010 4:33pm

Morlar wrote: »

~That's just funny :

That money was just "resting" in my account before I moved it on :rolleyes:

DazMarz · 27-05-2010 4:34pm

Tax evasion is endemic in a lot of places. But if there was a major clampdown on doing nixers and so on... Damn, the place would near collapse as people would turn to crime and so on in order to feed their families and stuff... It's a tough one, but a problem that is unlikely to go away any time soon.

prinz · 27-05-2010 4:36pm

topper75 wrote: »

Maybe I misunderstand you point, but you appear to be saying that if they were given more money, then they wouldn't have spent borrowed so much money?

The_Minister · 27-05-2010 4:40pm

easyeason3 wrote: »

No I don't see anything wrong with it.

Probably a lot more people signing on & doing nixers than ever before.

Can be the difference of a family eating so why would you begrudge anyone that?

Stay off the fags and booze and you can easily live on the SW if you have any sense.

sponsoredwalk · 27-05-2010 4:42pm

prinz wrote: »

One of the main reasons Greece went down the tubes. Should not be encouraged. Anyone who operates on a black market basis forfeits the right to complain about the country.

Still spreading those lies prinz

As far as I'm aware with small jobs it is legal in that they give written receipts instead of through the office, I could be wrong I just remember hearing that & have no source, anybody interested should google or ring their ombudsman...

ejmaztec · 27-05-2010 4:47pm

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

Still spreading those lies prinz

As far as I'm aware with small jobs it is legal in that they give written receipts instead of through the office, I could be wrong I just remember hearing that & have no source, anybody interested should google or ring their ombudsman...

What's that about?

27-05-2010 4:48pm

I always offer to pay cash in had and if I can get cash in hand I always take it. It pains me to give a penny to the government.

ejmaztec · 27-05-2010 4:51pm

Each time a cash in hand job takes place, a little puppy dies.:(

Working in the Black Market

The Black Market 223 votes

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