* Proposed New Junior Cert. Read Mod Warning Post #1 Before Posting**

evolving_doors · 08-04-2015 1:36pm

NufcNavan wrote: »

Anyone catch the bile that Newstalk allowed Ed Walsh to get away with earlier? Really is frustrating. He beats the anti teacher drum with his incorrect facts and hyperbole and the public laps it up. They feel reassured that an academic hates the teachers too.

Well really, if the best they can come up with each time is Ed. Walsh then they can have the old fart on as much as they like (and I'm not being ageist... he is actually an old fart). In all honesty he did do a lot for limerick and 3rd level education but to my mind he's as qualified to talk about the secondary teaching profession as Kim Kardashian is.

gaiscioch · 08-04-2015 5:02pm

I can't recall whether it was a pension lump sum of €315,000 or €350,000 that Ed Walsh left UL with, in addition to an annual pension of €100,000 plus. And he expects to be treated seriously when he claims teachers are overpaid?

If ever the public service had a parasite employee Mr Walsh is it. For the sake of exposing hypocrisy, it's time for the guy's own finances to be made known.

rainbowtrout · 08-04-2015 5:53pm

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Well really, if the best they can come up with each time is Ed. Walsh then they can have the old fart on as much as they like (and I'm not being ageist... he is actually an old fart). In all honesty he did do a lot for limerick and 3rd level education but to my mind he's as qualified to talk about the secondary teaching profession as Kim Kardashian is.

ya, but everytime he goes on about education in a public forum he is damaging the teaching profession and because he was president of UL that gives him some credibility so the public believe him. He gets an inordinate amount of time to spout about teaching in comparison with anyone else.

gaiscioch · 08-04-2015 6:31pm

"Teachers’ Union of Ireland general secretary John MacGabhann: “We repudiate the morally dubious proposition that to motivate the rich you must further enrich them but that to motivate the poor you must further impoverish them.”

Now, that perspective is refreshingly insightful.

evolving_doors · 08-04-2015 7:31pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

ya, but everytime he goes on about education in a public forum he is damaging the teaching profession and because he was president of UL that gives him some credibility so the public believe him. He gets an inordinate amount of time to spout about teaching in comparison with anyone else.

I used to think that (and the same could be said about E' Hobbs etc.) but I think that now their punditry is waring a bit thin. I do relish the day when someone actually challanges him on a panel, Id say he sees who's on before agreeing to participate.

Now Ed. lets talk about grade inflation and the high dropout rate in Irish universities, not to mention the degradation of independant research, part time contracts, political influence, gender inequality... No doubt its all the teachers fault. Strange he has no opinion on that!

acequion · 11-04-2015 1:20pm

I was away over Easter as I needed a total switch off from everything job related and I've just spent an interesting while reading and catching up with this thread. Great to read some excellent posts and even better to feel the palpable mood of indignation and rebellion against the utterly contemptible Government policy to turn our education system into a low cost yellow pack model regardless of the enormous long term devastation which will result. There has been too much apathy and indeed submission. High time teachers en masse woke up!

As for teachers stepping into middle management roles unpaid and using their homes as an office to ring parents and print out projects, the unions really need to put a stop to this lunacy. I think there should be an all out ban on all unpaid extras,including extra curricular.Now we're all guilty.I wore myself out before the holidays giving extra lunchtime tuition for the orals. But I do have my off button firmly in place. I don't have a higher LC French class every year,I only give the extra tuition for about four weeks in the lead up to the orals and only to those who are putting in the work and meeting me half way. And it's brilliant to practise my own French as I really get into it during those weeks. But what saddens me is that it is completely taken for granted by the kids, the majority of whom barely say thanks. And these are actually nice kids. But what can we expect when we make doormats of ourselves and bend over backwards providing all sorts of freebies. They think it's normal. Is that a good lesson to be teaching them as they go forward in life?

As for the lunch time protests,maybe I'm missing something but I can't understand why yer all so anti.What would be the point in strikes this late in the year? Surely the time for striking will be immediately in September if O Sullivan tries to impose this stupid "reform" for second year English. Which no doubt she will.That will surely be the right time to go all out and face her down.Lunchtime protests for what is left of this year will achieve the aim of keeping our campaign in the public domain as it will get reported in the media and it won't antagonise anyone. But I am open to correction on this.

MrJones1973 · 13-04-2015 10:13am

Was at conference. It was actually a bit upbeat. First Lunch time protest-its too late in the to year to strike-publicity would be dreadful. I was against last lunchtime protest but it actually generated quite a lot of news-which is what you want.

A motion was passed that will place a directive in place about posts BUT and this is crucial-you need members to actually lodge a complaint that a directive has been broken. Natural justice dictates that you will be named as the person making the complaint.

Regarding English-the centres where these CPD will be going on will be legally picketed. I doubt many will turn up.

Benicetomonty · 28-04-2015 6:02pm

Irish Times forced to correct a ( front page) article today that questioned teachers' opposition to the new JC. Claimed that a rake of teachers got paid over 2 strike days implying they made themselves available for work and essentially didnt want to strike! Ridiculous figures quoted and both unions said as much; Dept then admitted the numbers stated were way off.

Benicetomonty · 28-04-2015 6:14pm

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/department-issues-apology-over-incorrect-teacher-strike-figures-1.2191146

Typically trigger- happy stuff from Joe Humphreys I might add, opportunistic doesn't do it justice!

*just saw other thread, a bit behind the times!

km79 · 20-05-2015 12:11pm

http://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/the-following-statement-has-been-agreed-for-issue-by-the-minister-for-education-and-skills-the-asti//back_to/asti-home/
will be balloted in SEPTEMBER apparently
feels familar doesn't it. ........I want my strike pay back. a pure charade

mirrorwall14 · 20-05-2015 12:17pm

km79 wrote: »

http://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/the-following-statement-has-been-agreed-for-issue-by-the-minister-for-education-and-skills-the-asti//back_to/asti-home/
will be balloted in SEPTEMBER apparently
feels familar doesn't it. ........I want my strike pay back. a pure charade

Man that does not look promising

Chancer3001 · 20-05-2015 5:25pm

Fuk sake

km79 · 20-05-2015 5:44pm

the indo reporting that there is a commitment to classroom based assessment in second year English from next september .What did we strike for ?
Again its going EXACTLY as predicted
we are the fools who pay union subs when we know exactly what will happen

mirrorwall14 · 20-05-2015 5:53pm

km79 wrote: »

the indo reporting that there is a commitment to classroom based assessment in second year English from next september .What did we strike for ?
Again its going EXACTLY as predicted
we are the fools who pay union subs when we know exactly what will happen

You are joking? I mean seriously that's nuts!

km79 · 20-05-2015 5:56pm

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

You are joking? I mean seriously that's nuts!

not joking sadly its buried in the middle of the indos report which has been updated since this morning.....

man_no_plan · 20-05-2015 6:07pm

We will have to wait and see. Classroom based assessment doesn't mean teacher marked assessment or doesn't mean assessment for state certification.

There seems to be done agreement on releasing the report in an organised way so we have to wait. Speculation is very unhelpful really.

The devil will be in the detail. We are already a long way from the original proposals, I hope that there has been further movement and that there will be clarification on the detail that was lacking before.

Chancer3001 · 20-05-2015 7:31pm

I think well end up using Xmas and summer exams as part of our assessment.

But what we do for the exams will carry much bigger workload.

Also, be prepared for more projects

Jamfa · 20-05-2015 7:37pm

Chancer3001 wrote: »

I think well end up using Xmas and summer exams as part of our assessment.

But what we do for the exams will carry much bigger workload.

Also, be prepared for more projects

It'll depend on the subjects. In English what's new is a 3 min oral task at the end of 2nd year and 2 pieces of writing submitted at Christmas of 3rd year. The state exam will still be in June of 3rd year.
If a school offers lots of short courses there will probably be a fair few projects & portfolios of work.

trihead · 20-05-2015 9:01pm

http://www.tui.ie/news-events/statement-on-junior-cycle-agreed-between-the-minister-for-education-and-skills-the-tui-and-the-asti.7098.html

Friday evening before full doc / details are released.

gaiscioch · 20-05-2015 10:58pm

km79 wrote: »

will be balloted in SEPTEMBER apparently
feels familar doesn't it.

This is like the Nice Treaty, or was it Lisbon... We'll just have to keep voting until we get it "right". What a piss-take; if voting changed anything they really would abolish it (or, at least, the type of voting system - which they've had referenda to do twice in the history of this state)

Thanks be to God that our great democracy's leaders have us voting on a vitally important referendum like lowering the age for Presidential candidates from 35 to 21. What, like, could be more important? It would be awful if we had constitutional change to, say, limit class sizes to 15 students, or limit waiting times in A&E to, say, even 2 hours...

"Liberals" and "conservatives" are bedfellows, united by their persistence in deflecting from social justice issues, all of which cost money. The vast majority of the Irish political establishment is, in other words, united by being economically rightwing and rigging the terms of political debate with their faux conflict along liberal-Tory lines. They no more respect the rights of children to a quality education than they respect the rights of Irish people who vote against their proposals.

/rant over.

doc_17 · 20-05-2015 11:00pm

We won't have to wait until Friday to find out what's in it. I'm sure it'll be in the papers on Friday

katydid · 20-05-2015 11:00pm

gaiscioch wrote: »

This is like the Nice Treaty, or was it Lisbon... We'll just have to keep voting until we get it "right". What a piss-take; if voting changed anything they really would abolish it (or, at least, the type of voting system - which they've had referenda to do twice in the history of this state)

Thanks be to God that our great democracy's leaders have us voting on a vitally important referendum like lowering the age for Presidential candidates from 35 to 21. What, like, could be more important? It would be awful if we had constitutional change to, say, limit class sizes to 15 students, or limit waiting times in A&E to, say, even 2 hours...

"Liberals" and "conservatives" are bedfellows, united by their persistence in deflecting from social justice issues, all of which cost money. The vast majority of the Irish political establishment is, in other words, united by being economically rightwing and rigging the terms of political debate with their faux conflict along liberal-Tory lines. They no more respect the rights of children to a quality education than they respect the rights of Irish people who vote against their proposals.

/rant over.

What has all this got to do with the Junior Cert? Are you suggesting union members should not be consulted?

gaiscioch · 20-05-2015 11:06pm

katydid wrote: »

What has all this got to do with the Junior Cert? Are you suggesting union members should not be consulted?

Last time they came back to us with another proposal to vote on, it was essentially the same deal repackaged because they didn't like the first answer. They have form.

katydid · 20-05-2015 11:17pm

gaiscioch wrote: »

Last time they came back to us with another proposal to vote on, it was essentially the same deal repackaged because they didn't like the first answer. They have form.

No, it wasn't the same deal repackaged. There were differences.

If you don't like the deal done today, you are free to vote against it. Just like everyone was back then.

The bottom line is that the unions are democratic, and the executives are not free to make these decisions without balloting members. Why have a problem with that? Do you think we should just hand these decision making powers over to the executives you distrust so much?

gaiscioch · 20-05-2015 11:26pm

katydid wrote: »

No, it wasn't the same deal repackaged. There were differences.

Obviously it wasn't "the same deal repackaged". It was, however, as I said "essentially the same deal repackaged". That is why a large majority of ASTI members rejected it again. You are, of course, entitled to convince yourself otherwise (that loss of two days strike pay is obviously so much more important than the future of teaching as a career).

katydid · 20-05-2015 11:42pm

gaiscioch wrote: »

Obviously it wasn't "the same deal repackaged". It was, however, as I said "essentially the same deal repackaged". That is why a large majority of ASTI members rejected it again. You are, of course, entitled to convince yourself otherwise (that loss of two days strike pay is obviously so much more important than the future of teaching as a career).

It wasn't ESSENTIALLY the same deal repackaged. It was a DIFFERENT deal. Otherwise there wouldn't have been a different ballot.

I've no idea what strike pay has to do with the ballots on Croke Park/Haddington Road.

acequion · 20-05-2015 11:57pm

Why not tone down the cynicism and negativity until we find out the details! There is no mention of teacher assessment,so let's just wait and see.

2011abc · 21-05-2015 1:51pm

Sources ( ASTI Fightback Facebook page )confirm and all signs point to this being a massive union sell out .The fact the Indo rag has 'Coalition Cave to Teachers ' as good as copper fastens it .This is in the mould of describing our paltry Celtic Tiger catch up 'benchmarking' as an ATM for public workers .We WILL be assessing students and there will be more work involved .Christmas and Easter holidays for starters ...It's blatantly obvious that the JMB ( read ASTI Fightback page for details)wrote the 'new deal' many many months ago and as Ive said several times before here all the 'resistance ' is optics by the unions ( powerbrokers) to disguise their underhanded behind closed doors deals with govt .
It was all over after HRA2 vote , that's why I left ,THAT was the big battle .Maybe we will be thrown a few crumbs doubtless for extra 'productivity' but Oh , how they have ravaged education .They won't be happy until the Land of Saints and Scholars has been dumbed down to US/UK levels to 'pay off' themselves and their rich friends .

acequion · 21-05-2015 2:36pm

2011abc wrote: »

Sources ( ASTI Fightback Facebook page )confirm and all signs point to this being a massive union sell out .The fact the Indo rag has 'Coalition Cave to Teachers ' as good as copper fastens it .This is in the mould of describing our paltry Celtic Tiger catch up 'benchmarking' as an ATM for public workers .We WILL be assessing students and there will be more work involved .Christmas and Easter holidays for starters ...It's blatantly obvious that the JMB ( read ASTI Fightback page for details)wrote the 'new deal' many many months ago and as Ive said several times before here all the 'resistance ' is optics by the unions ( powerbrokers) to disguise their underhanded behind closed doors deals with govt .
It was all over after HRA2 vote , that's why I left ,THAT was the big battle .Maybe we will be thrown a few crumbs doubtless for extra 'productivity' but Oh , how they have ravaged education .They won't be happy until the Land of Saints and Scholars has been dumbed down to US/UK levels to 'pay off' themselves and their rich friends .

2011abc. Ok You LEFT THE UNION! Somehow I think you've told us that one before!! More than once!! The only time you seem to come on here to post is when you get an opportunity to justify that and to dramatically pronounce the apocalypse for teaching and education. Do you get a kick out of it? Are you so dying to be right?

Because quite frankly I am sick of your negative drama and others like you! There are many of us in the unions fighting tooth and nail on this and prepared to go as far as it takes and help and solidarity is what we need.. I,too,am a big admirer of astifightback who fight and present the facts without the drama. So kindly let us get on with the fight!

And you might be surprised to hear that asti has had a huge increase in new membership since HR. So while there is mistrust and cynicism,and much is it very justified,many of us believe that we would be a lot worse off without a union and are committed to making it work for us!

katydid · 21-05-2015 6:50pm

2011abc wrote: »

Sources ( ASTI Fightback Facebook page )confirm and all signs point to this being a massive union sell out .The fact the Indo rag has 'Coalition Cave to Teachers ' as good as copper fastens it .This is in the mould of describing our paltry Celtic Tiger catch up 'benchmarking' as an ATM for public workers .We WILL be assessing students and there will be more work involved .Christmas and Easter holidays for starters ...It's blatantly obvious that the JMB ( read ASTI Fightback page for details)wrote the 'new deal' many many months ago and as Ive said several times before here all the 'resistance ' is optics by the unions ( powerbrokers) to disguise their underhanded behind closed doors deals with govt .
It was all over after HRA2 vote , that's why I left ,THAT was the big battle .Maybe we will be thrown a few crumbs doubtless for extra 'productivity' but Oh , how they have ravaged education .They won't be happy until the Land of Saints and Scholars has been dumbed down to US/UK levels to 'pay off' themselves and their rich friends .

They must be psychic, since no details have been released as yet.

I'm curious to know, if the union gets back some of our pay in the Haddington Road negotiations, whether you will be declining to take the money, now that you've left the union? Or will you grab the benefits won by the union you decided to leave?

katydid · 21-05-2015 6:53pm

km79 wrote: »

http://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/the-following-statement-has-been-agreed-for-issue-by-the-minister-for-education-and-skills-the-asti//back_to/asti-home/
will be balloted in SEPTEMBER apparently
feels familar doesn't it. ........I want my strike pay back. a pure charade

What exactly is your problem?

katydid · 21-05-2015 6:56pm

gaiscioch wrote: »

This is like the Nice Treaty, or was it Lisbon... We'll just have to keep voting until we get it "right". What a piss-take; if voting changed anything they really would abolish it (or, at least, the type of voting system - which they've had referenda to do twice in the history of this state)

Thanks be to God that our great democracy's leaders have us voting on a vitally important referendum like lowering the age for Presidential candidates from 35 to 21. What, like, could be more important? It would be awful if we had constitutional change to, say, limit class sizes to 15 students, or limit waiting times in A&E to, say, even 2 hours...

"Liberals" and "conservatives" are bedfellows, united by their persistence in deflecting from social justice issues, all of which cost money. The vast majority of the Irish political establishment is, in other words, united by being economically rightwing and rigging the terms of political debate with their faux conflict along liberal-Tory lines. They no more respect the rights of children to a quality education than they respect the rights of Irish people who vote against their proposals.

/rant over.

It's very simple. The unions are democratic. The executives don't have the power to make these decisions without referring them to the members. They have been negotiating on your behalf and have come up with a proposal. Members are free to accept or reject it.

Would you rather they let the Department do whatever they wanted, and didn't negotiate on your behalf?

You're COMPLAINING because you are being consulted?

political analyst · 21-05-2015 7:46pm

According to the front page of today's Indo, it has been a climb-down on the part of the Department. I wonder will many secondary teachers feel comforted by that.

Mardy Bum · 21-05-2015 7:57pm

political analyst wrote: »

According to the front page of today's Indo, it has been a climb-down on the part of the Department. I wonder will many secondary teachers feel comforted by that.

And it is 100% external assessment for state certification.

2011abc · 21-05-2015 8:35pm

katydid wrote: »

They must be psychic, since no details have been released as yet.

I'm curious to know, if the union gets back some of our pay in the Haddington Road negotiations, whether you will be declining to take the money, now that you've left the union? Or will you grab the benefits won by the union you decided to leave?

Yeah I will Katy ....when it covers all that I've lost over the last seven years including the final postponed benchmarking 'rises'...but somehow I'd say I will have retired beforehand .Anyway any future rises will be hard paid for with extra ' productivity '.

katydid · 21-05-2015 8:36pm

2011abc wrote: »

Yeah I will Katy ....when it covers all that I've lost over the last seven years including the final postponed benchmarking 'rises'...but somehow I'd say I will have retired beforehand .Anyway any future rises will be hard paid for with extra ' productivity '.

So you won't pay your union dues, but you'll take the improvements the union gets for you. Don't you think that's a tad hypocritical?

2011abc · 21-05-2015 8:39pm

'Improvements' ?Thats what you call the last seven years?I paid my 'dues' for over two decades and served as steward for several years .Union is now a 'strait jacket' to subdue 'negative' people ,like me apparently who aren't government apologists .

katydid · 21-05-2015 8:42pm

2011abc wrote: »

'Improvements' ?Thats what you call the last seven years?I paid my 'dues' for over two decades and served as steward for several years .Union is now a 'strait jacket' to subdue 'negative' people ,like me apparently who aren't government apologists .

I'm talking about the improvements they are going to negotiate - some, at least, of our money back.

A union is comprised of its members. Its members make decisions. You seem to have a problem with this democratic concept.

2011abc · 21-05-2015 8:47pm

Vote until you do what we want (under increasingly menacing threats )is not my idea of democracy .

katydid · 21-05-2015 8:52pm

2011abc wrote: »

Vote until you do what we want (under increasingly menacing threats )is not my idea of democracy .

What do you mean? This ballot is the only one on these proposals, which they have been thrashing out for months.

Likewise with the CP/HR proposals - they went back each time and renegotiated a different deal, trying to find something that would be accepted by the members. And the members made their decision.

Why is that such a problem for you? I didn't vote for any of the CP/HR proposals, but the majority of my colleagues did. And I accept that, although I was very disappointed.

man_no_plan · 22-05-2015 4:58pm

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/teachers-to-assess-their-own-students-for-new-junior-cycle-award-1.2222380

I'd like to get a full read of the actual document, still no sign

From the above article...
The key reforms are:

• Students will study a maximum of 10 subjects, whereas currently there is no limit;

• English, Irish and Maths will remain compulsory;

• Schools will offer short courses in areas like computer coding, and Chinese language; these will involve 100 hours of learning - roughly half of an ordinary subject - and will be evaluated through classroom-based assessment.

• A new compulsory subject of “Well Being” will be introduced, incorporating Physical Education; Social, Personal and Health Education (SPHE), including relationships and sexuality; and Civic, Social and Political Education (CSPE);

• While this new course is developed, the existing CSPE syllabus will be retained until 2018 and taught in addition to the 10 subjects;

• For every student, teachers will carry out two structured classroom-based assessments, one each in second and third year;

• A written assessment task supervised by teachers in class will be completed in third year and marked by the SEC;

• Written exams at the end of third year will be shorter - no longer than two hours;

• A Junior Cycle Profile of Achievement will be issued to students by their schools; this will record learning arising from short courses; classroom assessments and the results of state exams;

• No further delay in rolling out the programme, with classroom based assessments to begin next year for English;

• Because they are the first cohort affected, English teachers will be given priority training; schools will be afforded flexibility in the first year and can chose to carry out the initial classroom based assessment in Spring 2016 (in second year) or autumn 2016 (the start of third year) for the first junior cycle class to come under the programme.

Jamfa · 22-05-2015 5:03pm

man_no_plan wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/teachers-to-assess-their-own-students-for-new-junior-cycle-award-1.2222380

I'd like to get a full read of the actual document, still no sign

From the above article...
The key reforms are:

• Students will study a maximum of 10 subjects, whereas currently there is no limit;

• English, Irish and Maths will remain compulsory;

• Schools will offer short courses in areas like computer coding, and Chinese language; these will involve 100 hours of learning - roughly half of an ordinary subject - and will be evaluated through classroom-based assessment.

• A new compulsory subject of “Well Being” will be introduced, incorporating Physical Education; Social, Personal and Health Education (SPHE), including relationships and sexuality; and Civic, Social and Political Education (CSPE);

• While this new course is developed, the existing CSPE syllabus will be retained until 2018 and taught in addition to the 10 subjects;

• For every student, teachers will carry out two structured classroom-based assessments, one each in second and third year;

• A written assessment task supervised by teachers in class will be completed in third year and marked by the SEC;

• Written exams at the end of third year will be shorter - no longer than two hours;

• A Junior Cycle Profile of Achievement will be issued to students by their schools; this will record learning arising from short courses; classroom assessments and the results of state exams;

• No further delay in rolling out the programme, with classroom based assessments to begin next year for English;

• Because they are the first cohort affected, English teachers will be given priority training; schools will be afforded flexibility in the first year and can chose to carry out the initial classroom based assessment in Spring 2016 (in second year) or autumn 2016 (the start of third year) for the first junior cycle class to come under the programme.

Just seen it: http://www.education.ie/en/Publications/Education-Reports/Junior-Cycle-Reform-Joint-Statement-on-Principles-and-Implementation.pdf

man_no_plan · 22-05-2015 5:08pm

It's on TUI.ie now too. Concerted release... Tue to put it to a ballot, no recommendation as yet

mirrorwall14 · 22-05-2015 5:40pm

So we correct and set the classroom assessments? How is that new?

Only good thing from my perspective is that music is actually addressed and the performance in third year will continue to be externally assessed

man_no_plan · 22-05-2015 5:42pm

Do we not pick the classroom assessment from a list?

mirrorwall14 · 22-05-2015 5:43pm

man_no_plan wrote: »

Do we not pick the classroom assessment from a list?

Ya but it doesn't say it's externally assessed? Only the third year written assessment says that

km79 · 22-05-2015 5:58pm

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Ya but it doesn't say it's externally assessed? Only the third year written assessment says that

the devil as always will be in the detail that will arise in practice

acequion · 22-05-2015 6:28pm

I've been mulling it over for the past hour and I don't think I like it.Here's how I see the pros and the cons:

[Potential] Pros:

The CBA's and final exam kept separate.
The CBA's can replace house exams, so in theory nothing extra there.
The final paper will be much shorter than at present at a maximum of two hours,so presumably much less to prepare and potential for less pressure.

Cons:

Very little movement from the Travers document.
Suspiciously fast acceptance by the unions,bypassing the SC.Basically WTF??
Huge emphasis on these CBA's wanting to give "prominence and importance" to them, while at the same time reducing the "focus on one terminal exam"

These latter two sound very Ruari Quinn and could be paving the way for teacher based assessment by the back door which astifightback are already warning against.

4. Greater "professional collaboration between teachers" to the extent that they want to allow for it in our timetables.

One wonders why, if all we'll be doing is an assessment in second year and another in third year.

5. The students will still go on to prepare a traditional LC, with a two year focus on one terminal,very high stakes exam.

Or is that next for the chop by the next probably FG led Government?

So more cons than pros for me at the moment and I'm very suspicious of the sudden enthusiasm by the unions.I was quite happy to let things slide until September, bringing us closer to the election,but the unions did seem very eager to get it sorted. Now while I don't want to encourage the unhelpful conspiracy theorists or give more ammunition to the anti union brigade, I am uncomfortable about this.

km79 · 22-05-2015 6:29pm

acequion wrote: »

I've been mulling it over for the past hour and I don't think I like it.Here's how I see the pros and the cons:

[Potential] Pros:
The CBA's and final exam kept separate.

The CBA's can replace house exams, so in theory nothing extra there.

The final paper will be much shorter than at present at a maximum of two hours,so presumably much less to prepare and potential for less pressure.

Cons:
Very little movement from the Travers document.

Suspiciously fast acceptance by the unions,bypassing the SC.Basically WTF??

Huge emphasis on these CBA's wanting to give "prominence and importance" to them, while at the same time reducing the "focus on one terminal exam"

These latter two sound very Ruari Quinn and could be paving the way for teacher based assessment by the back door which astifightback are already warning against.

4. Greater "professional collaboration between teachers" to the extent that they want to allow for it in our timetables.

One wonders why, if all we'll be doing is an assessment in second year and another in third year.

5. The students will still go on to prepare a traditional |LC with a two year focus on one terminal,very high stakes exam.

Or is that next for the chop by the next probably FG led Government?

So more cons than pros for me at the moment and I'm very suspicious of the sudden enthusiasm by the unions.I was quite happy to let things slide until September, bringing us closer to the election,but the unions did seem very eager to get it sorted. Now while I don't want to encourage the unhelpful conspiracy theorists or give more ammunition to the anti union brigade, I am uncomfortable about this.

think you have summed it all up quite well there

katydid · 22-05-2015 8:22pm

acequion wrote: »

I
[*]Very little movement from the Travers document.

[*]Suspiciously fast acceptance by the unions,bypassing the SC.Basically WTF??

Surely it's total movement from the Travers document - NO STATE CERTIFICATION from school based assessment. Teachers have been saying all along that it's not CA they have a problem with, rather the state certification of it.

"Bypassing the SC" What is the SC? The unions have accepted nothing; the union is the members, not the executive. The unions will only have accepted when and if the members accept it.

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