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Sinn Féin's attitude toward Real IRA arrests.

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    #32
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Fenian Army wrote: »
    They could devolve more powers, keep their secretary of states nose out of things... there are many things that could be done.
    I never said anything about British forces, so I dont know who you are attributing that quote to.

    I think it would really take the sting out of your tail if Marian Price was imprisoned in the republic, then you couldn't blame the Brits for punishing her for being an anti-GFA terrorist. Membership of RIRA is illegal here too you know.

    Aside from your issues with Marian Price, devolve more powers like what? And is that SFs way? Aren't some Unionists fighting for more devolved powers too?

    Also none of that 'ends British rule' or 'ends partition', how can SF ever fulfill their aim? It can only be the people of Ireland that can end British rule, through democracy.


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    #33
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    And on it goes. Silence, suppress and commit violations of human rights, anything, but face up to your responsibilities as govenors. Meanwhile, what you are trying to suppress garners more and more support.
    A very young Gerry Adams pulled a masterstroke when he would not allow the Belfast Brigade to take out a sniper firing at the republican crowd at Ballymurphy, he did it in a successful strategy to radicalise the middle ground.
    The British are once again, unwittingly, doing exactly the same.... expect the Irish Government to follow suit, as usual.:rolleyes:


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    #34
    Fenian Army
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army


    Turner wrote: »
    I am also a biker, a Garda biker...And also on occasion wear a balaclava under my lid.


    If i was appearing in public holding up a speech that openly supported the blowing up / murder of an innocent young Gaa playing member of An Garda Siochana, while I was on conditional release for other terrorist offences....

    You can be well sure I would wear a balaclava.

    Or if i didnt, and was arrested and imprisoned. I woulnt give out about it or expect people to start a campaign for my release.
    Might what to correct your "facts" there. Thas not what was said at the commemoration. If her release was conditional on that, why wasn't she arrested decades earlier?

    You are in no position to preach about "terrorist activities" given your organizations collusion in "terrorism", not to mention your heavy gang, Kerry Babies, Nicky Kelly, all the fun in Donegal, etc etc etc the list goes on.


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    #35
    Fenian Army
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army


    Anyway getting back to the topic, the fact that lots of political parties have supported the call for Marian Prices release (OP makes no mention of them) as well as his selective quoting of Martin Ferris and his pathetic attempt to portray SF as sympathetic to the RIRA I think its clear that all this thread is is a pathetic attempt to shinner bash with little validity.


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    #36
    Turner
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    Fenian Army wrote: »
    Might what to correct your "facts" there. Thas not what was said at the commemoration.

    I substituted PSNI with Garda, as I was putting myself in her position.
    Fenian Army wrote: »
    You are in no position to preach about "terrorist activities" given your organizations collusion in "terrorism", not to mention your heavy gang, Kerry Babies, Nicky Kelly, all the fun in Donegal, etc etc etc the list goes on.

    I am one member of 14,000. And I personally can stand up and account for any of my actions over the many years I have served.

    If you have a problem with any member of any police force there are legitimate and legal outlets in which you can voice your complaints and release your anger.


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    #37
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Fenian Army wrote: »
    Anyway getting back to the topic, the fact that lots of political parties have supported the call for Marian Prices release (OP makes no mention of them) as well as his selective quoting of Martin Ferris and his pathetic attempt to portray SF as sympathetic to the RIRA I think its clear that all this thread is is a pathetic attempt to shinner bash with little validity.


    You said yourself you think British involvement in Irish politics is a bigger problem than RIRA. But neither a reduction in British involvement nor the violence of RIRA will bring about an end to partition, that can only be done by the democratic will of the people through the mechanisms of the GFA. So while we are waiting for that to happen, and convincing people to vote one way or the other (which SF obviously has a role in) we have British involvement which is not killing people on the streets and RIRA violence which is killing people on the streets. Yet you think the former to be the bigger problem? Twisted.


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    #38
    MakeEmLaugh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭MakeEmLaugh


    Fenian Army wrote: »
    Might what to correct your "facts" there. Thas not what was said at the commemoration.



    "Those who think they are serving their community are, in fact, serving the occupation and will be treated as such.

    The GAA, Catholic church and constitutional nationalism will be unable to protect those who turn traitor. They are as liable for execution as anyone regardless of their religion, cultural background or motivation."

    So the fact that this speech was given less than three weeks after the GAA helped carry the coffin of a Roman Catholic Police Constable from an Irish nationalist background is merely a coincidence?


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    #39
    Fenian Army
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army


    Laminations wrote: »
    You said yourself you think British involvement in Irish politics is a bigger problem than RIRA. But neither a reduction in British involvement nor the violence of RIRA will bring about an end to partition, that can only be done by the democratic will of the people through the mechanisms of the GFA. So while we are waiting for that to happen, and convincing people to vote one way or the other (which SF obviously has a role in) we have British involvement which is not killing people on the streets and RIRA violence which is killing people on the streets. Yet you think the former to be the bigger problem? Twisted.
    Through their intransigence the British are giving them valuable propaganda and worsening the situation. The key is t convince republicans that there is an exclusively peaceful way to achieve republican objectives, and that the north of yesteryear is gone forever. Its hard to do that when people like Martin Corey are locked up in breach of their human rights (declared so by a Judge) and not even told why they have been jailed.

    But anyway, I dont speak for SF. This thread isnt about what I think. This thread was a feeble attempt to bash SF when they have done nothing different than many other politicalparties.


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    #40
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Fenian Army wrote: »
    Through their intransigence the British are giving them valuable propaganda and worsening the situation. The key is t convince republicans that there is an exclusively peaceful way to achieve republican objectives, and that the north of yesteryear is gone forever. Its hard to do that when people like Martin Corey are locked up in breach of their human rights (declared so by a Judge) and not even told why they have been jailed.

    I've asked you about what specific devolved powers would help end British rule, and you revert back to these quasi-POWs who broke the terms of their licences and then got a serious case of prisonitis. Intransigence? Where is the possible compromise in the RIRA position of 'Brits out'?


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    #41
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Fenian Army wrote: »
    The key is t convince republicans that there is an exclusively peaceful way to achieve republican objectives, and that the north of yesteryear is gone forever
    How does one "convince" someone who deliberately remains ignorant and aloof to the will of the vast majority of people around them?


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    #42
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Laminations wrote: »
    and you revert back to these quasi-POWs who broke the terms of their licences and then got a serious case of prisonitis.

    It's what the thread is about not your wet dream baristerial attempt at demolishing what a particular poster believes or doesn't believe. :rolleyes:


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    #43
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    It's what the thread is about not your wet dream baristerial attempt at demolishing what a particular poster believes or doesn't believe. :rolleyes:

    The thread is about SFs attitude to the RIRA arrests. We've quickly seen SFers admit that to them British involvement in Ireland (peaceful if inconvenient) is a bigger problem for them than a terrorist gang of criminals murdering and extorting Irish citizens. I wonder if the people of Omagh find British involvement worse than RIRA violence? SFers would have some point if the British were murdering beating and oppressing Irish (like they were in the 70s) but its actually RIRA doing this now...


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    #44
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Laminations wrote: »
    The thread is about SFs attitude to the RIRA arrests.

    Exactly.

    You picked one sentence out of an answer and ran off on one of your deflecting crusades. Can we keep the thread on topic, open another if you want a discussion on something different.


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    #45
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Marian Price is associated with RIRA and has possibly been involved in their actions, she was secretary of their political wing. I just think it misguided that politicians (including SF) are going out of their way to try and get her clemency for aiding RIRA in the delivery of terrorist threats. I could understand it if they were arguing to allow her a temporary reprieve to allow her health to recover but they are trying to argue that she isn't under any release terms. At this stage I'd prefer if she was released as its become such an icon for anti-British bigots. I'd then like to see her receive medical attention in the south before being tried with membership of a terrorist organisation.


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    #46
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    @Fenian Army.

    If SF get into government here it'll piss off a large portion of society. If an anti-SF terrorist organisation emerged whose aim was to remove SF from irish politics and they started a campaign of murder, extortion etc., who'd be the bigger problem in that scenario? SF or the people killing people?

    SF would have a democratic mandate but the terrorists would ignore that. Similarly British rule currently has a democratic mandate but the anti-GFA dissidents ignore that. So would you push for SF to step down and hand away power to remove fuel from the terrorists?? Afterall I'm sure it's not that Britain is foreign that annoys you, it's that they are unwanted.


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    #47
    paky
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭paky


    MakeEmLaugh wrote: »
    Prima Nocte wrote: »
    So how would you determine who is hard line on the Real IRA?

    I would say the Minister for Defence, Alan Shatter, is pretty hard-line on the Real IRA:

    "[Their actions are] reprehensible and absolutely unacceptable... In treating the will of the people, North and South, with contempt, they dishonour democracy"

    Also, our former Minister for Justice, Michael McDowell:

    "These days when a small group of 'dissident' political psychopaths and cynical would-be revolutionaries cling to the belief that Mother Ireland is still crying for the blood of Irish police constables in the North and that she wants to keep alive the prospect of some future Balkan-style inter-communal blood bath there, we Republicans cannot remain as passive spectators when we are called on to be friends."
    Prima Nocte wrote: »
    The biggest problem here isn’t the existence of dissident republicans but it is the continued existence of British involvement in Irish politics.

    But the unionist politicians - Peter Robinson, Tom Elliott, Jim Allister - and the people who vote for them are British. This is recognised even by former IRA men like Gerry Kelly:

    I accept, and we [Sinn Féin] have long since said that we accept that there are people here who look upon themselves as British, and are British. Not just my opinion of it. They are British.

    As long as these people exist on the island of Ireland there will always be, as you put it, "British involvement in Irish politics."

    The great irony in all of this is that the Scottish people take to the polls two years from now and vote on their future in the united kingdom, something which the Irish had successfully done over a century ago and yet were denied by the British government. Honoring democracy? It was Britain's failure to honor democracy which created militant separatism in this country and Scotland's future in the united kingdom can only help highlight that fact.


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    #48
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Laminations wrote: »
    I just think it misguided that politicians (including SF) are going out of........

    What is it you want to do about that? Suppress and proscribe politicians and the public from having an opinion on what is to them a human rights issue and interveneing?
    Don't vote for them if you don't agree with their actions.


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    #49
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    What is it you want to do about that?

    Eh, disagree with them? May not be the juicy answer a terrorist sympathiser would like to hear but I've no intention of opposing their position in any physical way.


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    #50
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    paky wrote: »
    The great irony in all of this is that the Scottish people take to the polls two years from now and vote on their future in the united kingdom, something which the Irish had successfully done over a century ago and yet were denied by the British government. Honoring democracy? It was Britain's failure to honor democracy which created militant separatism in this country and Scotland's future in the united kingdom can only help highlight that fact.

    So unless you want to go back to the times of Scottish clans ala Braveheart, what you are saying is that the modern struggle for Scottish independence (or a vote on independence) has been achieved through wholly non-violent means?


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    #51
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    You don't have to agree in any way with a statement to believe in freedom of speech and utterly reject the concept of putting someone in prison for the words they say.


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    #52
    paky
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭paky


    Laminations wrote: »
    paky wrote: »
    The great irony in all of this is that the Scottish people take to the polls two years from now and vote on their future in the united kingdom, something which the Irish had successfully done over a century ago and yet were denied by the British government. Honoring democracy? It was Britain's failure to honor democracy which created militant separatism in this country and Scotland's future in the united kingdom can only help highlight that fact.

    So unless you want to go back to the times of Scottish clans ala Braveheart, what you are saying is that the modern struggle for Scottish independence (or a vote on independence) has been achieved through wholly non-violent means?

    Absolutely.


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    #53
    Fenian Army
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army


    Laminations wrote: »
    Marian Price is associated with RIRA and has possibly been involved in their actions, she was secretary of their political wing. I just think it misguided that politicians (including SF) are going out of their way to try and get her clemency for aiding RIRA in the delivery of terrorist threats. I could understand it if they were arguing to allow her a temporary reprieve to allow her health to recover but they are trying to argue that she isn't under any release terms. At this stage I'd prefer if she was released as its become such an icon for anti-British bigots. I'd then like to see her receive medical attention in the south before being tried with membership of a terrorist organisation.

    So you want her released, good stuff.

    Why would you want her tried for something she isn't guilty of? Even the Brits haven't tried to pin that on her.

    Its not a crime to be a member of the 32CSM. (no matter how much you might want it to be)


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    #54
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    paky wrote: »
    The great irony in all of this is that the Scottish people take to the polls two years from now and vote on their future in the united kingdom, something which the Irish had successfully done over a century ago and yet were denied by the British government. Honoring democracy? It was Britain's failure to honor democracy which created militant separatism in this country and Scotland's future in the united kingdom can only help highlight that fact.
    Democracy is what is being ignored in the first by the likes of this Ryan character's organisation and its deluded willfully-ignorant supporters.


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    #55
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Laminations wrote: »
    Eh, disagree with them? May not be the juicy answer a terrorist sympathiser would like to hear but I've no intention of opposing their position in any physical way.

    Ah, some dissident supporters are more deserving of condemnation than others, when it comes to Laminations political philosophy?
    I'm getting you loud and clear. :rolleyes:


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    #56
    Fenian Army
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army


    Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams has said he supports the Garda Síochána arrests of 16 people following a Real IRA display at the funeral of one of paramilitary group’s leading figures.

    A group of men dressed in combat gear fired a volley of shots over the coffin of murdered Alan Ryan on Saturday in Donaghmede, Dublin.

    In today's raids, gardaí seized three imitation firearms, mobile phones and computers along with documentation. Those detained ranged in age from 16 to 60 years old.

    Mr Adams said there was no place for such displays or for such organisations. He said “groups involved in gangsterism and crime masquerading as the IRA” had no place in Irish society.

    /thread


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    #57
    MakeEmLaugh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭MakeEmLaugh


    Fenian Army wrote: »
    /thread

    Fair enough. That statement hadn't been released when I started this thread. We'll have to wait and see if Adams and co stick to their word.


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    #58
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Fenian Army wrote: »
    /thread

    Gerry Adams and Laminations singing from the same hymm sheet? We've come a long way. :D


    In fairness though, I think Gerry has his own political reasons for releasing that statement, not wanting any other group to have purer republican ideals than SF.


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    #59
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Fenian Army wrote: »
    /thread
    If he supports the arrests related to Real IRA display, does he then support the arrest of Marian Price?

    =-=

    As for the RIRA, it seems their aim of getting the brits to leave starts with getting more of them back on the streets of NI, as that's what will happen if the RIRA start with their retarded bombing campaigns again.


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    #60
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    You don't have to agree in any way with a statement to believe in freedom of speech and utterly reject the concept of putting someone in prison for the words they say.

    Membership of a criminal organisation is an arrest able offence, not covered by freedom of expression. Discharging weapons is an arrest able offence not covered by freedom of expression. And making a hate speech in which you issue death threats (which is very different from simply saying things people disagree with) is an arrestable offence and not covered by freedom of speech.

    So someone can go to prison for the words they say if the words they say amount to a death threat. You reject the concept of someone being put in prison for threatening and intimidating language?

    http://www.google.ie/search?q=making+death+threat+illegal&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

    Knock yourself out there.


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    #61
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Gerry Adams and Laminations singing from the same hymm sheet? We've come a long way. :D


    In fairness though, I think Gerry has his own political reasons for releasing that statement, not wanting any other group to have purer republican ideals than SF.

    I said in my initial reply to Fenian Army

    'I would agree with you in thinking SF don't have much time for anti-GFA dissidents'

    What's emerged since then, and kept the thread going are backward views like yours which suggest that RIRA embody a pure republicanism and that the Brits are a bigger problem than these murdering thugs. Your words betray your claim that you don't support them. I agree with Gerry Afams on a few things, with you not so much. You have a warped idea of what republicanism means


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