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Awful service on 46A this afternoon

  • 06-11-2007 7:59pm
    #1
    bryanw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 284 ✭✭


    Ok - I'm guessing this won't come as much of a surprise to many, but I was really frustrated by the level of service on the 46A this afternoon.

    So my story starts when I got off the DART at Dun Laoghaire at almost exactly 15:00. I went to check the timetable for the bus and it said the next 3 buses were at 15:02, 15:10 and 15:18. So without any surprise a 46A pulled up at about 15:02, but only in the set down area and the driver went off. Then another pulled up a few minutes later and allowed the passengers to alight and then proceeded to do a loop-d-loop around the harbour to arrive back at the station few mins later. It came to 15:20 and not one 46A had left, not ONE, in the amount of time that THREE should have. During my wait I also overheard a woman ask a bus driver from a different route when the next 46A would be leaving, and he said "don't worry they're very, very frequent". So I finally got on at about 15:20.

    But it doesn't end there. I now notice that actually all three of the buses that were supposed to leave in the last 20 mins left at 15:20. And then the driver of the bus that I was on had some kind of unwillingness to let people on. Pulling up at the stop at Argos in Dun Laoghaire (ok in fairness there was a van parked just before the stop) the bus over-shoots the stop. But not only does he overshoot the stop, he keeps edging the bus forward several times forcing people to chase after the bus, and there was a crowd trying to get on.

    Then a bit further up, on Oliver Plunket Rd. a woman with a pram was getting on, and the driver almost didn't let her on. I heard him say to her before she got on "there's another bus behind".

    Then at Deansgrange I noticed a girl running down to the bus stop at the business centre, this is while the bus is stuck in traffic. The girl got to the stop in plently of time. The bus driver let 2 people off before this stop and then proceeded to pull back to the middle of the lane and of course passing by the girl waiting at the stop - at this stage this but was the last in the line of 3.

    Journey time to Deansgrange was over 30 mins (well actually about 50 mins seeing as I SHOULD have been able to get a bus at 15:02) - this is appalling! Admittedly there was traffic - but if I was in a car doing the same journey it wouldn't have taken 30 mins (which I know from experience). Then as if journey time hadn't been increased by enough - the driver decided to increase it by another 5 mins by transferring all the passengers to another bus in "the group" at Galloping Green, just so that he could go on a break!

    This is an appalling service from Dublin Bus this afternoon on a supposedly flagship route. Not so much the journey time as there was traffic, although it wasn't satisfactory. But the fact that there was a 20 minute wait for a bus when 3 should have left within that time and also the transfer and the driver not being willing to pick up all passengers. I notice too often on Dublin Bus that people waiting at stops are just left standing there as they call the bus, while the bus flies past them.

    I'm guessing most won't take shock at this experience... But should we accept it? Share your opinions and experiences please.


Comments

  • #2
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,011 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    bryanw wrote: »
    Share your opinions
    Did you contact the garage - there may have been valid reasons for the above?


  • #3
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    bryanw wrote: »
    Then a bit further up, on Oliver Plunket Rd. a woman with a pram was getting on, and the driver almost didn't let her on. I heard him say to her before she got on "there's another bus behind".
    Ive often said to passengers there is another bus behind, whats the point in having one bus packed to the rafters and an empty one following? especially for people with young children or the eldery, they need seats and space.

    As for the delay in service, the 14.30 school rush gap you found yourself in. buses in service passing schools at closing time take longer than the bus in front and creates a gap, The 46A that went round the back of the station was more than lightly told to start picking up passengers up the route somewhere to get back on track, The girl in deansgrange eemmm! strange one alright, did she actually want the 46A or the 75 maybe? if traffic was that bad there she could have caught up with the bus at the next stop, You say the 1st bus was the 15.02? did you see me leave as a 746 at 15.00? why did you not get my bus? maybe you missed the 15.02 and the second one was the one sent to start up the route, and you end up getting the 3rd? either way 20mins was a bad wait time for the 46A, then again its tough even to drive the 46A route in 70 mins at rush hour, many get delayed and end up driving empty to catch up on where they should be, maybe if the journey times were more realistic the timetable would run more smoothly, that goes for all routes.


  • #4
    OTK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭OTK


    spareman, if you start from the terminus early or late, would anyone in the Dublin Bus garage know about it? And if anyone knew about it would anything be done about it?


  • #5
    dub_commuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭dub_commuter


    From a personal point of view I find some of the 46A drivers incredibly rude and I see things like this more on the 46A than any other route, However I also get the 4 regularly and completely the opposite can be said of them.

    The edging of the bus forward I have seen a lot, it also happens on the 38 and 39 from time to time, it seems to be more common in Donnybrook at Phibsborough than anywhere else.

    There's no excuse for someone not to stop. if you put your hand out and your not full. End of story. My drivers I have every day have never done that but when I got the 38 for a year they did that very often.


  • #6
    bryanw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 284 ✭✭bryanw


    spareman wrote: »
    ...You say the 1st bus was the 15.02? did you see me leave as a 746 at 15.00? why did you not get my bus? maybe you missed the 15.02 and the second one was the one sent to start up the route, and you end up getting the 3rd?...
    I didn't see a 746 but I know it was 3 o'clock when I got off the Dart (well unless Irish Rail use a different time to the rest of us!) and was watching for buses as I left the station. I also intentionally sat in the Dart to be close to the station exit - so I didn't miss a bus that I would have been able to see.

    Just after I began to wait for the bus a 46A pulled up and this was there for the duration of my wait. It wasn't the bus I got on either. Including that bus, there were 2 or 3 buses serving the 46A route floating around the station area.

    The bus I was on wasn't full at all, so I don't see why the driver asked the woman with the pram to get the bus behind, other than maybe he was running behind time and thought it may take too long to get a pram on. In Deansgrange, there's gas works going on and I noticed the girl going along the road as the traffic wasn't moving and the path was covered in piping. From what I could see she was looking for the 46A because she looked at the bus and then ran for the stop.

    That whole area around Deansgrange it terrible for traffic, not only because of the delays but also because the times it occurs at are so random.

    But also, seeing as the school rush happens every day - couldn't the gap in service be anticipated and rectified?

    Unfortunately the service isn't consistent enough which makes it difficult when trying to calculate commuting times. I guess journey time could be forgiven because of traffic, but the wait was 20 mins when 3 services should have departed.

    I guess I was ranting in my original post too, apologies. Just that I was late as a result of the wait.


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  • #7
    KC61
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭KC61


    bryanw wrote: »
    Ok - I'm guessing this won't come as much of a surprise to many, but I was really frustrated by the level of service on the 46A this afternoon.

    So my story starts when I got off the DART at Dun Laoghaire at almost exactly 15:00. I went to check the timetable for the bus and it said the next 3 buses were at 15:02, 15:10 and 15:18. So without any surprise a 46A pulled up at about 15:02, but only in the set down area and the driver went off. Then another pulled up a few minutes later and allowed the passengers to alight and then proceeded to do a loop-d-loop around the harbour to arrive back at the station few mins later. It came to 15:20 and not one 46A had left, not ONE, in the amount of time that THREE should have. During my wait I also overheard a woman ask a bus driver from a different route when the next 46A would be leaving, and he said "don't worry they're very, very frequent". So I finally got on at about 15:20.

    But it doesn't end there. I now notice that actually all three of the buses that were supposed to leave in the last 20 mins left at 15:20. And then the driver of the bus that I was on had some kind of unwillingness to let people on. Pulling up at the stop at Argos in Dun Laoghaire (ok in fairness there was a van parked just before the stop) the bus over-shoots the stop. But not only does he overshoot the stop, he keeps edging the bus forward several times forcing people to chase after the bus, and there was a crowd trying to get on.

    Then a bit further up, on Oliver Plunket Rd. a woman with a pram was getting on, and the driver almost didn't let her on. I heard him say to her before she got on "there's another bus behind".

    Then at Deansgrange I noticed a girl running down to the bus stop at the business centre, this is while the bus is stuck in traffic. The girl got to the stop in plently of time. The bus driver let 2 people off before this stop and then proceeded to pull back to the middle of the lane and of course passing by the girl waiting at the stop - at this stage this but was the last in the line of 3.

    Journey time to Deansgrange was over 30 mins (well actually about 50 mins seeing as I SHOULD have been able to get a bus at 15:02) - this is appalling! Admittedly there was traffic - but if I was in a car doing the same journey it wouldn't have taken 30 mins (which I know from experience). Then as if journey time hadn't been increased by enough - the driver decided to increase it by another 5 mins by transferring all the passengers to another bus in "the group" at Galloping Green, just so that he could go on a break!

    This is an appalling service from Dublin Bus this afternoon on a supposedly flagship route. Not so much the journey time as there was traffic, although it wasn't satisfactory. But the fact that there was a 20 minute wait for a bus when 3 should have left within that time and also the transfer and the driver not being willing to pick up all passengers. I notice too often on Dublin Bus that people waiting at stops are just left standing there as they call the bus, while the bus flies past them.

    I'm guessing most won't take shock at this experience... But should we accept it? Share your opinions and experiences please.

    Drivers cannot decide themselves to transfer passengers from one bus to another - that can only be done with the approval of the route controller.


  • #8
    paulm17781
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    Did you contact the garage - there may have been valid reasons for the above?

    I'd that's very likely. :rolleyes:


  • #9
    LiamD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 511 ✭✭✭LiamD


    Bryan, I sympathise with you. There is nothing worse than a bus standing waiting whilst there should be a service, but I would argue that you are lucky to be able to use the 46A! At least when 3 buses don't show up for you it means an 18 minute wait. If you want to know how long I have to wait in that situation you might want to read this.

    Buses going missing/not turning up are so irritating but they're a fact of life with DB. Last week on Friday morning the 15X from Scholarstown just didn't show up, leaving the confused regulars still standing at the stop at 0745 (15X due at roughly 0733). While we were waiting for the express bus 2 ordinary 15s left. If anyone had bothered to tell us that the 15X wouldn't be operating for whatever reason we would at least have been able to get an earlier 15. These days the 15X is showing up late (if at all) and losing it's advantage as an express route, because it gets stuck at the Yellow House for a good 15/20 mins in heavy traffic now. 74A here I come!

    Also, yesterday I was waiting at college green for 30 minutes for a 15. I arrived at 1425, finally got on a bus at 1455. In that time 2 16As, 3 46As, 3 10s, 2 4s, 2 7s, 2 151s and a 150 passed to name but a few. There should have been at least 1, if not 2 15s during that time.

    I know the traffic is atrocious in Dublin and people have absolutely no regard for bus lanes or bus stops but I do believe the management of DB leaves a lot to be desired.


  • #10
    bryanw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 284 ✭✭bryanw


    KC61 wrote: »
    Drivers cannot decide themselves to transfer passengers from one bus to another - that can only be done with the approval of the route controller.
    I wasn't aware of that or that there was a "route controller". Can this route controller not "control" the routes a bit better. Reading Liam's story - it sounds familiar and has happened to me on occasions with route less regular than 46A. Also, what exactly is the necessity of transferring passengers anyway?

    Also on the 46A which I've noticed and which also I heard other people say is the delay of up to 5 mins in Donnybrook, heading into town, for a change of driver. This happens quite often.
    LiamD wrote:
    ...I would argue that you are lucky to be able to use the 46A!
    I used to think the 46A was a good service but the more I use it, the more I think its just like all the other routes.


  • #11
    Heart
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭Heart


    In fairness most route controllers do a very good job considering they have very little resources to back them up in terms of knowing traffic conditions etc.

    H


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  • #12
    Lizzykins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 637 ✭✭✭Lizzykins


    I was sick emailing Dublin Bus with complaints about the 15 until the new timetable came into operation on Oct 1st. Since then I have not been let down ONCE by the bus morning or afternoon. I sent an email to Dublin Bus to compliment them on the improvement and got a prompt reply thanking me. I bet they don't get too many compliments!


  • #13
    KC61
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭KC61


    bryanw wrote: »
    I wasn't aware of that or that there was a "route controller". Can this route controller not "control" the routes a bit better. Reading Liam's story - it sounds familiar and has happened to me on occasions with route less regular than 46A. Also, what exactly is the necessity of transferring passengers anyway?

    Also on the 46A which I've noticed and which also I heard other people say is the delay of up to 5 mins in Donnybrook, heading into town, for a change of driver. This happens quite often.


    I used to think the 46A was a good service but the more I use it, the more I think its just like all the other routes.

    Transferring passengers from one bus to another is usually done where one bus is running particularly late and in order to try to get that bus back to where it should be at a particular time the controller might ask the driver to switch his pax to another bus and operate empty from a certain point and try to regain time lost in order to diminish the effect of the delay on the rest of the schedule.

    The change in driver is where the driver duties end/start at the garage. The driver finishing could arrive earlier than the next driver is scheduled to start, and hence the delay.


  • #14
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    bryanw wrote: »
    Also on the 46A which I've noticed and which also I heard other people say is the delay of up to 5 mins in Donnybrook, heading into town, for a change of driver. This happens quite often.
    So I take it you will be supporting the drivers of harristown in there industrial action?

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055178670


  • #15
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    paulm17781 wrote: »
    I'd that's very likely. :rolleyes:
    This makes no sense???


  • #16
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    OTK wrote: »
    spareman, if you start from the terminus early or late, would anyone in the Dublin Bus garage know about it? And if anyone knew about it would anything be done about it?
    Leaving early is a serious offence, possibly leading to sacking, dont know why any driver would want to leave late? DB have spy's out watching buses, so chances are you would be caught eventually.


  • #17
    dfx-
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,694 Mod ✭✭✭✭dfx-


    Anyone prepared to complain about waiting for buses should go wait on a 56A and then they'll be glad to be back on their normal route soon enough.

    You haven't lived until you've waited for a 56A.


  • #18
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    dfx- wrote: »
    Anyone prepared to complain about waiting for buses should go wait on a 56A and then they'll be glad to be back on their normal route soon enough.

    You haven't lived until you've waited for a 56A.
    Are you saying they dont turn up or you just dont bother to check the timetable?


  • #19
    dfx-
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,694 Mod ✭✭✭✭dfx-


    They don't turn up and are completely unreliable when they do. They might and they might not - you might be lucky, you might not. If you are not, then you'll be waiting..and waiting. But for the Luas, I would've been stuck in the city centre a couple of nights when the last bus supposedly at 2327 just simply didn't turn up. Another weekday morning, there was no inbound 56A mid-route between 0750 and 0900. In a period where there should have been three buses from the timetable, none turned up during the main rush hour of all times. That's just a few occasions from the top of my head!

    And twenty minutes is considered an awful service?:eek:


  • #20
    John_C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭John_C


    spareman wrote: »
    So I take it you will be supporting the drivers of harristown in there industrial action?

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055178670

    I don't mean to be smart but I really don't see how that follows from what he said.


  • #21
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    John_C wrote: »
    I don't mean to be smart but I really don't see how that follows from what he said.
    He was complaining about buses stopping mid route to change driver's, which is what Dublin Bus want to do with the 4/4A, the driver's in harristown dont want to do this in the city center and would rather do it at the terminus in harristown garage. Am I making any sense here?


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  • #22
    Third_Echelon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,889 ✭✭✭Third_Echelon


    I work in Citywest so the 50, 65B and 69 would be the buses that service this area.

    A few years ago I used to live near rathmines, so the 65B would be the route I'd use. Moved into city centre after that and the 50 and 69 took over for me ;)

    50 would be regular enough but would take ages to get to Citywest, so I started to take the 69.

    The 69 is generally reliable enough, but it did go through a 'bad patch' about a year ago. Buses generally wouldn't show up on the route back from rathcoole to town. In particular there are 2 buses scheduled right beside each other at 1845 and 1900.

    One of them would go over citywest bridge and then into clondalkin missing about 2 stops in citywest. Sometimes the 2 buses would do this....

    It took a bunch of us (work in the same office) to call Dublin bus dispatch every time this would happen... and it happened regularly enough. I think they just got p1ssed off with all the phone calls that they sorted whatever issue it was. It has been grand since...

    My advise.... Call the dispatch if your bus is very late. They then radio the bus to see where it is...

    Also transferring from one bus to another on the 69 route is quite common. Usually happens around Island Bridge somewhere so one of the buses can turn into the bus depot at Conyngham Road


  • #23
    John_C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭John_C


    spareman wrote: »
    He was complaining about buses stopping mid route to change driver's, which is what Dublin Bus want to do with the 4/4A, the driver's in harristown dont want to do this in the city center and would rather do it at the terminus in harristown garage. Am I making any sense here?
    A little but I'd only be with you if the drivers on the other routes were the same. If the 46A drivers were demanding to start their day in town I'd agree with you but otherwise it looks a lot like the drivers are motivated by not wanting to make their own way into town than any concern for passengers' delay.


  • #24
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    John_C wrote: »
    A little but I'd only be with you if the drivers on the other routes were the same. If the 46A drivers were demanding to start their day in town I'd agree with you but otherwise it looks a lot like the drivers are motivated by not wanting to make their own way into town than any concern for passengers' delay.
    Im not sure what the motivation is for the drivers in Harristown, but speaking from experiance in relation to the 46A route, I dont like taking buses that are full of passengers, I cant really check the bus over before I take it, And if I was waiting outside the garage and my bus was delayed it means I am already running late despite reporting for duty on time, it is an incovience for passengers who have to wait 5/10 mins for the driver changeover while 2/3 buses pass by.


  • #25
    AndrewMc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 354 ✭✭AndrewMc


    Yesterday I waited on the Stillorgan Rd for a 46A/145 into town at 17:05. I finally got one at 17:30:
    • First bus carrying passengers, nearly empty, marked out of service, didn't stop
    • Second bus carrying passengers, nearly empty, marked out of service, didn't stop
    • Third bus carrying passengers, seats half full and nobody standing, 46A and destination displayed, didn't stop
    • Fourth bus lights off, route number (scroll) between 116 and 117, didn't stop
    • Fifth bus packed for some reason :rolleyes: Didn't stop
    • Sixth bus picked us up

    Reached city at 18:00 since we had so many people to pick up along the way. Google Earth says that's 4.7km in 55 minutes. Consequently I missed my train. Finally got home at 21:20. :mad:

    This isn't even unusual. I've waited in the past for up to 8 or 9 buses to pass before one eventually stops. I once spoke to an inspector standing at the stop about it, and he said they stop picking up to make up time to bring people out of town. They don't seem to care that there are people also trying to get into town.


  • #26
    John_C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭John_C


    spareman wrote: »
    Im not sure what the motivation is for the drivers in Harristown, but speaking from experiance in relation to the 46A route, I dont like taking buses that are full of passengers, I cant really check the bus over before I take it, And if I was waiting outside the garage and my bus was delayed it means I am already running late despite reporting for duty on time, it is an incovience for passengers who have to wait 5/10 mins for the driver changeover while 2/3 buses pass by.

    I agree with what you've said there and I think it's basically what the original point was, that it's annoying having to wait 5 mins for the drivers to change. It seems to me that it's a simple timetabling issue that shouldn't be too difficult to fix but I don't know the details of what goes on.


  • #27
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    AndrewMc wrote: »
    Yesterday I waited on the Stillorgan Rd for a 46A/145 into town at 17:05. I finally got one at 17:30:
    • First bus carrying passengers, nearly empty, marked out of service, didn't stop
    • Second bus carrying passengers, nearly empty, marked out of service, didn't stop
    • Third bus carrying passengers, seats half full and nobody standing, 46A and destination displayed, didn't stop
    • Fourth bus lights off, route number (scroll) between 116 and 117, didn't stop
    • Fifth bus packed for some reason :rolleyes: Didn't stop
    • Sixth bus picked us up

    Reached city at 18:00 since we had so many people to pick up along the way. Google Earth says that's 4.7km in 55 minutes. Consequently I missed my train. Finally got home at 21:20. :mad:

    This isn't even unusual. I've waited in the past for up to 8 or 9 buses to pass before one eventually stops. I once spoke to an inspector standing at the stop about it, and he said they stop picking up to make up time to bring people out of town. They don't seem to care that there are people also trying to get into town.
    Ive noticed lately it can be as busy going into town as it can coming out at rush hour. If a bus gets delayed outbound, we are told to run light back into town to make our time, On bad day's you see alot of out of service buses, Its just so hard to predict a journey time in this city.


  • #28
    jlang
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭jlang


    Just to confirm, ...
    spareman wrote: »
    we are told to run light back into town
    ... means that you are told to ignore people waiting on the side of the road for your bus?


  • #29
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    jlang wrote: »
    Just to confirm, ...... means that you are told to ignore people waiting on the side of the road for your bus?

    Yes that is correct, we are told to "blank it out and come back in"

    In other words, put up out of service and drive by intending passengers. Why how else are we suppose to get back onto our times? Has someone inventing a teleport macine and kept it a secret from dublin bus?

    Here it is in a nutshell, Bus leaves town 2pm due in dun loaghaire 3.10pm arrives dun loaghaire 3.30pm. now the 3.10pm bus hasnt operated, ok so do we work him back to town and he will miss the 4.20pm outbound or do we send him in light and guarentee the 4.20pm departure?

    The thing alot of people seem not to understand, is that the 3.10pm bus in Dun Loaghaire has to work out from town to get to Dun Loaghaire at 3.10pm. it doesnt just magically appear in Dun Loaghaire at 3.10pm, so if it is delayed on the outbound journey there is a very good chance the 3.10pm from Dun Loaghaire wont operate.

    I mean if youve got some better idea's let me know and I can run them past the manager and gain some much needed brownie points. Ive been going over it in my head and the way I see it there's 2 possible solutions, either the Guards start to enforce the rules of the road regarding bus lanes, loading bays, taxi ranks, dangerous pedestrians, lunatic cyclists, illegal parking and any other obstruction that delays buses, or Dublin bus have a manned fleet of Double decker buses on standby, at stratigic points around the city to jump in when other buses are delayed, either way its going to cost the taxpayer more money, and lets be honest here, us Irish seem to have developed this thing for money that we dont like to part with it, just look at the state of any public service in this country, Its all a joke, one big JOKE.

    Anyway thanks for listening.:D


  • #30
    jlang
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭jlang


    Spareman - I see your point, but the fact that the bus is the 3:10 bus that started at 3:30 is irrelevant to anyone who is not in Dun Laoghaire. The only use the timetable is to someone at Stillorgan is to see e.g. 7 departures over the previous hour and say a bus should be due in 60/7 minutes or about a bus every 10 minutes. After waiting for 25 minutes and seeing three busses head in "out of service" but carrying passengers (been there), the guy waiting for an inbound bus is rightly pee-ed off.

    My own pet peeve on the 46A was how outbound frequency although great at 5:30 falls off massively some time between half 6 and 7pm - regular massive queues, full busses and long wait times.


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  • #31
    jlang
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭jlang


    spareman wrote: »
    ... Dublin bus have a manned fleet of Double decker buses on standby, at stratigic points around the city to jump in when other buses are delayed, ...
    Do they not? I had always assumed the 46A had a few of these in the morning ready to join the QBC at Foxrock and even out the gaps caused by busses coming up from DL. Doesn't really matter to me as most busses fill up by Stillorgan anyway and run full until UCD. Waiting at MM Ave is a lottery between 8:30 and 9am, although there's enough total capacity (with the 145s) that even if six or eight busses go by without picking up, you tend to still only have to wait 15-20 minutes, worst case, although there can often be over 50 people at this one stop by the time a bus does actually stop.


  • #32
    John_C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭John_C


    spareman wrote: »
    I mean if youve got some better idea's let me know and I can run them past the manager and gain some much needed brownie points.
    It might be better for the 46A to just not have a timetable. The Luas doesn't have one, it says something like 'a tram about every 7 mins'. No one except for Dublin Bus employees read the 46A timetable, passengers just go down to the stop and get the next bus that comes.


  • #33
    John_C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭John_C


    jlang wrote: »
    Doesn't really matter to me as most busses fill up by Stillorgan anyway and run full until UCD. Waiting at MM Ave is a lottery between 8:30 and 9am, although there's enough total capacity (with the 145s) that even if six or eight busses go by without picking up, you tend to still only have to wait 15-20 minutes, worst case, although there can often be over 50 people at this one stop by the time a bus does actually stop.
    I've often thought that there should be a bus going in a loop between Belfield and somewhere between Stillorgan and Foxrock. It never made sense to me to have a shortage of capacity around Stillorgan and then spare capacity on the buses running into town.


  • #34
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    jlang wrote: »
    Spareman - I see your point, but the fact that the bus is the 3:10 bus that started at 3:30 is irrelevant to anyone who is not in Dun Laoghaire. The only use the timetable is to someone at Stillorgan is to see e.g. 7 departures over the previous hour and say a bus should be due in 60/7 minutes or about a bus every 10 minutes. After waiting for 25 minutes and seeing three busses head in "out of service" but carrying passengers (been there), the guy waiting for an inbound bus is rightly pee-ed off.

    My own pet peeve on the 46A was how outbound frequency although great at 5:30 falls off massively some time between half 6 and 7pm - regular massive queues, full busses and long wait times.

    I can understand the passengers are frustrated but The drivers are frustrated too at these situations.

    There a couple of weeks ago the whole
    46A fleet got delayed coming out of town, every bus on the 46A route was stuck in traffic between Parnell square and Donnybrook outbound, some taking up to 4 hours to reach Dun Loaghaire, which meant no bus had left Dun Loaghaire for a long time, now I know this was a once off due to traffic light malfunction, but in this situation there isnt much Dublin bus staff can do.

    I have noticed how busy it gets outbound after 6/7pm, it seems to be a strech on rush hour, which now really doesn't end till closer to 8pm, Traffic is getting worse everyday in the city, more people are using buses everyday, theres no end to it.

    The running time on the 75 route for example has been the same for the last 10 years, despite more bus users, more traffic, and the biggest shopping center in Europe opening on the route also 6 other busy shopping centers on route, and you would need a few hands to count the schools on route, Which results in missed departures, angry passengers, drivers taking abuse. whats the answer? If you give more running time it means less departures? The city needs a hugh increase in buses, and keep them out of o connell street, another pet hate of mine, cant understand why the company insist on sending every bus in the fleet through O Connell street every rush hour.


  • #35
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    John_C wrote: »
    It might be better for the 46A to just not have a timetable. The Luas doesn't have one, it says something like 'a tram about every 7 mins'. No one except for Dublin Bus employees read the 46A timetable, passengers just go down to the stop and get the next bus that comes.
    Yes I think this would be good, but the manager seems to think its great to see all the departures written out on the page. I think Aircoach have the right idea up to every 20mins is there timetable, also most of the uk companies do this. But I dont think it would help much in the situation of buses getting delayed.


  • #36
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    jlang wrote: »
    Do they not? I had always assumed the 46A had a few of these in the morning ready to join the QBC at Foxrock and even out the gaps caused by busses coming up from DL. Doesn't really matter to me as most busses fill up by Stillorgan anyway and run full until UCD. Waiting at MM Ave is a lottery between 8:30 and 9am, although there's enough total capacity (with the 145s) that even if six or eight busses go by without picking up, you tend to still only have to wait 15-20 minutes, worst case, although there can often be over 50 people at this one stop by the time a bus does actually stop.
    The buses at foxrock and stillorgan also at belfield and abbey road monkstown actually have timed departures, this is to help people like your good self at mount merrion to actually get a bus, although the inspector may hold them back for a min or two to split the gap, I think the average is a bus every 50 secs on stillorgan road inbound between 8 and 9am, thats some figure isnt it.


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  • #37
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    John_C wrote: »
    I've often thought that there should be a bus going in a loop between Belfield and somewhere between Stillorgan and Foxrock. It never made sense to me to have a shortage of capacity around Stillorgan and then spare capacity on the buses running into town.
    Seems like a good idea alright, but Ive often had to work short to belfield from Dun Loaghaire for various reasons and never really carry that many people, If I was manager tomorrow the 46A wouldnt leave the bus lanes, no o connell street, no dun loaghaire untill the QBC is finished to Dun Loaghaire that is. The bus takes about 20/25 mins from lesson street to foxrock and vice versa, It took me 1 hour 45 mins to get from westmoreland street up around parnell square and back down to dolier street the other day, people can walk down from Stephens green or get an eco cab, luas link up, or a city imp type circular route?


  • #38
    John_C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭John_C


    spareman wrote: »
    Seems like a good idea alright, but Ive often had to work short to belfield from Dun Loaghaire for various reasons and never really carry that many people,
    I think the reason for that is because a passenger would have to pay twice if he was going further than Belfield. If the ticketing was different you'd have more people willing to endure the 50 sec wait at Belfield.

    While I'm at it, would it not speed things up to put a ticket machine at the busy stops like Stillorgan and Mount Merrion Avenue? The bus can be stopped for a minute or two while the driver handles cash.


  • #39
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    John_C wrote: »
    While I'm at it, would it not speed things up to put a ticket machine at the busy stops like Stillorgan and Mount Merrion Avenue? The bus can be stopped for a minute or two while the driver handles cash.
    Yes I think it would be a good Idea, but and here's the thing about Dublin, nothing is safe left out overnight, they would be smashed up by drunken yobs for fun, every weekend in this city lots of bus shelters are smashed up for fun.


  • #40
    bryanw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 284 ✭✭bryanw


    spareman wrote: »
    Yes I think it would be a good Idea, but and here's the thing about Dublin, nothing is safe left out overnight, they would be smashed up by drunken yobs for fun, every weekend in this city lots of bus shelters are smashed up for fun.
    Couldn't something like a parking machine be useful. There are lots of those around and they don't get vandalised because (afaik) the "money tank" is under the ground (can't think of a better word).

    Didn't they used to have on some route timetables, things like:
    First Bus 08:35
    then one bus every 10 mins until
    19:30
    then one bus every 15 mins until
    Last Bus 23:30
    I wouldn't be in favour of bringing them back though because its open to interpretation as to when a bus is supposed to leave.
    spareman wrote:
    The thing alot of people seem not to understand, is that the 3.10pm bus in Dun Loaghaire has to work out from town to get to Dun Loaghaire at 3.10pm. it doesnt just magically appear in Dun Loaghaire at 3.10pm, so if it is delayed on the outbound journey there is a very good chance the 3.10pm from Dun Loaghaire wont operate.
    I do understand that there is only a limited amount of buses to service a route and that it very possible that they are delayed. Just to say regarding my original post, when I was waiting there was actually a bus there, clearly marked 46A which could have left. There were also 2 or 3 other buses (unmarked). All that had to be done was provide a driver.
    spareman wrote:
    ...Ive been going over it in my head and the way I see it there's 2 possible solutions, either the Guards start to enforce the rules of the road regarding bus lanes, loading bays, taxi ranks, dangerous pedestrians, lunatic cyclists, illegal parking and any other obstruction that delays buses, or Dublin bus have a manned fleet of Double decker buses on standby, at stratigic points around the city to jump in when other buses are delayed, either way its going to cost the taxpayer more money, and lets be honest here, us Irish seem to have developed this thing for money that we dont like to part with it, just look at the state of any public service in this country, Its all a joke, one big JOKE.
    Glad to see you're telling it like it is. Of course its true about rules not being enforce. Who actually has responsibility over the N11 "QBC" anyway? Who has the power to change things about it? I see cyclists obstructing the bus lane when there is a SEPARATE cycle lane provided. I also don't see why the bus must go through Stillorgan. There are also several T-junctions where the bus lane will not interfere with traffic, why does the bus have to stop at those lights?

    The lights on the N11 are stupid. The only bus priority light is one near the Stillorgan Park allowing the bus cut across 3 lanes of traffic so that it can go through Stillorgan village! Oh and also at Foster's Ave. there's a set of lights (at the Radisson - but for traffic city-bound). They are the stupidest lights I've ever seen. The left filter light comes on AFTER the lights go green for traffic going straight. So the bus has to wait behind the traffic looking to turn left before it can go. Who can change this rubbish, DLRCC, DCC, NRA, Dublin Bus? Someone must be in charge!


  • #41
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    bryanw wrote: »
    Couldn't something like a parking machine be useful. There are lots of those around and they don't get vandalised because (afaik) the "money tank" is under the ground (can't think of a better word).

    Im sure there is possibly some way to keep vandalism to a minium, I was thinking about the one they have at the Airport, and if they put them citywide I can only see carnage.
    Didn't they used to have on some route timetables, things like:
    First Bus 08:35
    then one bus every 10 mins until
    19:30
    then one bus every 15 mins until
    Last Bus 23:30
    I wouldn't be in favour of bringing them back though because its open to interpretation as to when a bus is supposed to leave.
    I noticed the 151 timetable is like that now, so maybe they will change them all in time, It doesnt really make a whole lotta difference if the bus is delayed anyway.
    I do understand that there is only a limited amount of buses to service a route and that it very possible that they are delayed. Just to say regarding my original post, when I was waiting there was actually a bus there, clearly marked 46A which could have left. There were also 2 or 3 other buses (unmarked). All that had to be done was provide a driver.
    The 46A that was there may have come direct from the garage and thats why he was early for his journey, The other buses would have been for other route's, 111/75/59, But I can see your point, you see 4 buses and you want one to leave straight away because you want to take the bus, If the 46A left early what about the people who arrive at his time and he is gone, If one of the other buses is used what about the people who want a 11/75/59. Your bus was more than lightly delayed due to heavy traffic.
    Glad to see you're telling it like it is. Of course its true about rules not being enforce. Who actually has responsibility over the N11 "QBC" anyway? Who has the power to change things about it? I see cyclists obstructing the bus lane when there is a SEPARATE cycle lane provided. I also don't see why the bus must go through Stillorgan. There are also several T-junctions where the bus lane will not interfere with traffic, why does the bus have to stop at those lights?

    The lights on the N11 are stupid. The only bus priority light is one near the Stillorgan Park allowing the bus cut across 3 lanes of traffic so that it can go through Stillorgan village! Oh and also at Foster's Ave. there's a set of lights (at the Radisson - but for traffic city-bound). They are the stupidest lights I've ever seen. The left filter light comes on AFTER the lights go green for traffic going straight. So the bus has to wait behind the traffic looking to turn left before it can go. Who can change this rubbish, DLRCC, DCC, NRA, Dublin Bus? Someone must be in charge

    I think the whole QBC network needs attention, there are lots of things we could do to speed up the service, I believe from Booterstown ave out is DLRCC terriortory, Id imagine its up to them and Dublin Bus to sort it out.


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  • #42
    trellheim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Yes. But let's say there are 8 buses parked to serve 9 departures in the coming 1/2 hour

    You know the next bus to leave should be a 46a but he, the missing 9th bus is stuck in a jam and he'll be 15 minutes.

    Can't you just tell the next bus to go out as a 46a and when the stuck bus gets in tell him to drive the other route ?

    or is that too simplistic ? Me, I thought that's what those lads on the radio did was to make decisions like that to keep the pot boiling.


  • #43
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    trellheim wrote: »
    Yes. But let's say there are 8 buses parked to serve 9 departures in the coming 1/2 hour

    You know the next bus to leave should be a 46a but he, the missing 9th bus is stuck in a jam and he'll be 15 minutes.

    Can't you just tell the next bus to go out as a 46a and when the stuck bus gets in tell him to drive the other route ?

    or is that too simplistic ? Me, I thought that's what those lads on the radio did was to make decisions like that to keep the pot boiling.
    No can do, you cant make a 46A driver work another route, you can ask him too alright. and besides tri axle buses are not really suited to other routes. There is some give and take alright, but we are talking about 1 bus waiting not 8 so its a bit different really.


  • #44
    OTK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭OTK


    I just want to first say 'thanks' to spareman for openly answering questions here.

    The 46a is the best Dublin Bus service available. It is meant to run at a frequency of 10 buses / hour. The OP points out he waited 20 minutes for a bus. I have waited up to 40 minutes for this service.

    I think the problems are as follows:
    Dwell time is too long: just one door when the buses could have three is crazy
    Tickets should all be prepaid from vending machines at stops. Vandalism is not a problem. Look at Fatima Luas stop. The driver should be driving not validating tickets and collecting fares.
    There are around twice as many bus stops as needed.
    Recess bus stops in from the road.

    The idea that the customers should alert the garage when the service fails is topsy-turvy. The service provider should alert and apologise to the passengers when they fail to provide the service they are paid to provide.

    Of course the garage has no idea if the service is running late as they haven't got it together to gather GPS fleet data.

    I think these changes can be made without more govt money.


  • #45
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    OTK wrote: »
    I just want to first say 'thanks' to spareman for openly answering questions here.

    The 46a is the best Dublin Bus service available. It is meant to run at a frequency of 10 buses / hour. The OP points out he waited 20 minutes for a bus. I have waited up to 40 minutes for this service.

    I think the problems are as follows:
    Dwell time is too long: just one door when the buses could have three is crazy
    Tickets should all be prepaid from vending machines at stops. Vandalism is not a problem. Look at Fatima Luas stop. The driver should be driving not validating tickets and collecting fares.
    There are around twice as many bus stops as needed.
    Recess bus stops in from the road.

    The idea that the customers should alert the garage when the service fails is topsy-turvy. The service provider should alert and apologise to the passengers when they fail to provide the service they are paid to provide.

    Of course the garage has no idea if the service is running late as they haven't got it together to gather GPS fleet data.

    I think these changes can be made without more govt money.
    I agree with everything except that last part, How can we put vending macines at every stop, How can we alert custumer's in stillorgan that the bus leaving Dun Loaghaire is late without funding?
    The controller in the garage should know when there is gaps as he/she are in radio contact with buses, although there's really not much they can do about it.


  • #46
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    spareman wrote: »
    I think the whole QBC network needs attention, there are lots of things we could do to speed up the service

    Never a truer word said!
    I believe from Booterstown ave out is DLRCC terriortory, Id imagine its up to them and Dublin Bus to sort it out.

    I think the DCC website says (somewhere) that the QBN office in Wood Quay is responsible for all bus lanes in the four LA areas.


  • #47
    OTK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭OTK


    spareman wrote: »
    I agree with everything except that last part, How can we put vending macines at every stop, How can we alert custumer's in stillorgan that the bus leaving Dun Loaghaire is late without funding?
    You are right. Don't know what I was thinking when I typed that.


  • #48
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    OTK wrote: »
    You are right. Don't know what I was thinking when I typed that.
    See that SICKCERT!!
    I got someone from boards to agree with me, Told ya they weren't all bad.:p


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